VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

[Heyesey]

Re: Jill/Sage date vs. caring for sick friend

DPC made a mistake with this setup, IMO. Caring for sick Sage shouldn't negatively impact the Jill route unless there is a strong narrative reason in future seasons. (That seems unlikely, as both Sage and Jill are LI's.)

Instead, there should have been a pre-emptive major choice: accept Tommy's olive branch to go out to the bar with fake ID or turn him down to go on the picnic date with Jill. Then, if MC finds out that Sage is sick, there could be a second choice to turn down Tommy (Sage path or others path) or to reschedule the picnic date to the next day (Jill path but keeps Sage path open).

edit to add: In fact, by rescheduling the Jill picnic to the following day for such a selfless reason, this should HELP convince Jill that MC is worth fighting for - unless MC is fuck buddies with Sage ... then, Jill might be suspicious.

All makes a lot of sense. I think everyone agrees that having that decision be so important and yet not obviously so, is a bit of a mistake.

It just irks me that people think it means Jill *thinks less of you.* She's already decided she has to stop seeing you, for your own sake. The problem here is just that if you don't go on the picnic, you miss your chance to convince her otherwise - and there's no way of knowing that it's your only chance.

She probably does think better of you for passing her up to look after an ill person. But that's all the more reason she will try to avoid Tybalt suing you - she doesn't want you to get in trouble. Naive, but hardly the act of someone who now doesn't like you any more!

 

[Heyesey]

In fact, come to think of it, this entire thing is nullified if there were just one scene, if you don't go for the picnic hangout, where Jill comes to the dorm to tell you why she can't see you any more, and you still get a chance to convince her otherwise.

 

[Walter Victor]

What does annoy me is the rejection based upon not going to Jill picnic instead of taking care of a sick friend. Most players I've seen also feel the same way about that. It's not one of the better logic moments in game.

It may be a poor predicate for her decision. The test here is on 'ep7_jill_lewd' which you only get if you went on the picnic with Jill instead of going to Sage. A fairer test might have been 'ep7_jill_talk' which you get if you choose to fight for Jill and go and throw rocks at her window.

However, you get the former if you've done the latter and have been on the picnic where Jill realizes her feelings for the MC and triggers the masturbation scene, which actually triggers the 'lewd' tag. In that sense, it kind of differentiates between her having the hots for the MC and putting him in the dreaded friend zone. Which, in a way, explains her feelings for the MC at the Tybalt dinner scene. She's either in love with him or she's not. If she's not, she tells him that, thanks him if he helped her at the concert, and would like them to remains friends.

This was a Sophie's Choice scenario for the MC, where he had to choose between seeing the girl he really loves or tending to a sick friend - assuming you are on the Jill path and only friends (or at best fuck-buddies) with Sage.

As for Jill 'humiliating' the MC in public... She actually lets him down pretty gently, and still wants to be friends. Humiliation is what she does to Tybalt, not how she handles the MC. As for it being in public, he kind of brought that on himself, didn't he, by dashing into the restaurant on his white charger?

By the way, most of this is not directed at you. I just used your post to say a few things that have come to mind after reading a lot of nonsense over the last dozen or so pages.

 

[Crusader of Romance]

As others have said, the problem is that Jill is making an unusually big request here (going on an unannounced date for reasons she refuses to disclose to the MC), yet she literally expects the MC to drop everything and say yes immediately. If he points out that he already has plans, Jill takes it as a personal affront - muttering to herself that the MC doesn't act like he cares about her when he tries to spend time with her later.

I agree she isn't a raging asshole as some have claimed, but she is completely out of line to treat the MC this way. Realistically, it makes it clear that any relationship with her is likely doomed because it's only a matter of time until the MC is once again unable to dote on her hand and foot. I'm certain that's not what DPC was going for, but that's what he wound up writing.

In short, it's ridiculous for Jill to treat the MC more harshly when he agrees to tend to a sick friend than when he fucks that friend behind her boyfriend's back, yet here we are.

She comes with a birthday surprise, not some major request. And she doesn't take it as a personal affront. She's a bit disappointed. It's just that without that special moment together they would have at that picnic the spark isn't lit for her. So when he tries to have sex with her, she feels like they aren't as close as she wishes they were because they never had that special moment together that made her feel like it was right, the moment he convinced her to give him a chance. Without that key moment she kept feeling insecure about the whole thing.

Should she ignore her own feelings and just go with it so not to hurt MC's feelings, because that's basically what you're saying. That she was out of line to feel the way she did and to tell him how she felt. So, she should have just pretended everything was OK and ignored her gut feeling and not been honest with him?

Also, she doesn't know he was with a sick friend (and you make it sound like Sage was terminally ill or something, she had a cold). She's not upset about him helping a friend who got a cold, she just feels like they aren't connecting the way she expected them to because they never had that key moment together.

 

[Crusader of Romance]

In fact, come to think of it, this entire thing is nullified if there were just one scene, if you don't go for the picnic hangout, where Jill comes to the dorm to tell you why she can't see you any more, and you still get a chance to convince her otherwise.

It's not just the info, it's the moment. They had a special moment that made her feel it was right to be with the MC but if you don't go with her that special moment never happened.

 

[sixart]

She comes with a birthday surprise, not some major request. And she doesn't take it as a personal affront. She's a bit disappointed. It's just that without that special moment together they would have at that picnic the spark isn't lit for her. So when he tries to have sex with her, she feels like they aren't as close as she wishes they were because they never had that special moment together that made her feel like it was right, the moment he convinced her to give him a chance. Without that key moment she kept feeling insecure about the whole thing.

Should she ignore her own feelings and just go with it so not to hurt MC's feelings, because that's basically what you're saying. That she was out of line to feel the way she did and to tell him how she felt. So, she should have just pretended everything was OK and ignored her gut feeling and not been honest with him?

Also, she doesn't know he was with a sick friend (and you make it sound like Sage was terminally ill or something, she had a cold). She's not upset about him helping a friend who got a cold, she just feels like they aren't connecting the way she expected them to because they never had that key moment together.

Quite the romantic... ( see what I did there ? ) Also it's accurate what has happened there... but it's more fun to create some alternate version where folks are able to like or dislike someone so telling the truth about what's going on here is futile ( and probably not many have here psychology degree to understand it let alone the lack of will to do so )

 

[NewTricks]

That only because of a bug that makes the game flag the MC to be sleeping around if he doesn't go on that birthday date with her. It only exists because the Dev never thought anybody on Jill's route would skip that date since it's a very important part. It's not just feeding the horses, it's the moment you convince her that you are serious about her and to not let Tybalt control your lives.
In other words, the game tells Jill the MC is sleeping around on her.

This is true. I checked it out and there are only a few points where the romance can be disabled with checks against your DIK Affinity. One is when she is struggling with the piano and decides not to call you if you are a DIK. Another is if you refuse to get up on stage and let Bella help her instead. But the Picnic isn't supposed to be one of them. The bug has to do with another checkpoint where she tells you in the hallway what Tybalt is doing. If your DIK affinity is massive DIK it is game over for the romance at that point. Your MC will even have dialogues that he isn't interested in her anymore. It only gets dicey if you are at Neutral DIK affinity and then swap over to DIK affinity before you go to intercept her at the dinner. That is why the rejection scene is pretty tough to get, impossible to get at Chick or Neutral affinity and if you were a DIK during that hallway conversation the romance is already disabled so you won't even try to go to the dinner.

 

[Walter Victor]

If you chose for the MC to be on the Jill branch, there are actually 3 tests in an 'or' statement that will throw your MC into the Other branch. The first is whether the MC went to the picnic or not (the one that has thrown this thread into a dumpster fire). The second is if the MC is a DIK. If the MC does not at least have a Neutral affinity, he has no chance with Jill. The third is a variable set when the MC goes to meet Jill's friends. If it's not set on, the MC gets rejected. This one looks to be redundant, since you don't get it unless you got the first one and I don't see a way to avoid it if you did.

So, if I'm reading the code right, if you've been to the dinner party where the MC meets Jill's friends, you've already been to the picnic with Jill. And as long as the MC doesn't have a DIK affinity, he shouldn't get rejected.

 

[shazba]

I'd like to preface this post with the fact that I actually like all the characters, warts and all. I enjoy all the drama and don't have a problem with how any of the game is going so far. When I'm bashing the characters, I'm not complaining about how the game has been written, I'm just enjoying dissecting the characters and their choices. None of it's important, it's all just a bit of fun.

Have you *actually played* this game?

Jill's decided she has to go along with Tybalt and never see you again. If you don't go with her to hear this in person, you miss the chance to change her mind. Stop spinning a pile of rubbish about her being vindictive.

The mc meets up with her a number of times after the Sage/Jill decision:

• The very next day (it seems, but it could be a few days later), he meets up with her at college and has almost the same discussion with her that would have taken place at the picnic (regarding the blackmail), she tells him about the blackmail, he tells her Tybalt is lying, she says they should stay apart, he says he wants to see her. The only thing missing is the picnic and the rain groping.
• Then they get together for a fun game of tennis (balling Tybalt's balls and knocking his teeth our have no impact on Jill's feelings for the mc).
• The he super romantically climbs her balcony, to romance her some more. She admits that she's happy he snuck in. She laughs and gets butterflies and then shits herself over her own sexual insecurities. She definitely likes him, just to what degree.
• Later they chat over the phone when she invites the mc to her recital. She's still nervous and the mc tells her she'll be great.
• Then she catches up with mc and the Scooby Gang to invite everyone to the recital.

At this point it's already clear that Jill is no longer interested in the mc. When Derek mentions she "dated" the mc, she just says, "Um... Yes, well, anyway... Uh." Like it was some mistake she made in the past. And she has no intention at that point to invite him to meet her friends.

Anyway, back to the sequence of events:

• So mc misses out on another date with Jill, when she goes to see her friends.
• Then it's the recital, and she has her meltdown, and then, like a total superhero boyfriend, the mc goes up on stage and saves her bacon. I mean who the fuck in real life would do such a thing. It's the kind of romantic insanity that only happens in movies and AVNs. When a guy does that kind of amazing shit for you, it has to count for something, right?

The next time they see each other, the mc has just literally run across town to save her ass from Tybalt (OK, she handled this one entirely on her own), and he tells her such, "I ran across the city to find you."

But her response to everything that has happened, is to turn to him, after absolutely destroying Tybalt:

Jill: "And you..."​

And then she goes on to say how she can't handle bailing him out all the time, even though he literally told her not to.

He says he wants to keep dating, she says no, he asks for a second chance, she says no. And she did all of this in a very public place where all eyes were on her after yelling a Tybalt moments earlier.

So the mc got to explain himself, and numerous times they definitely enjoyed each other's company (there are plenty of scenes that unquestionably show how Jill is totally into the mc), and then all because the mc chooses to see Sage over Jill, she cuts him off.

He still explains his side to her, he still risks getting caught for her, he still practices her music and helps her through what could have been a very upsetting recital. It's just not enough for Jill. And that's OK, but she still didn't have to dump him in the restaurant in such a scene...

Re: Jill/Sage date vs. caring for sick friend

DPC made a mistake with this setup, IMO. Caring for sick Sage shouldn't negatively impact the Jill route unless there is a strong narrative reason in future seasons. (That seems unlikely, as both Sage and Jill are LI's.)

Instead, there should have been a pre-emptive major choice: accept Tommy's olive branch to go out to the bar with fake ID or turn him down to go on the picnic date with Jill. Then, if MC finds out that Sage is sick, there could be a second choice to turn down Tommy (Sage path or others path) or to reschedule the picnic date to the next day (Jill path but keeps Sage path open).

edit to add: In fact, by rescheduling the Jill picnic to the following day for such a selfless reason, this should HELP convince Jill that MC is worth fighting for - unless MC is fuck buddies with Sage ... then, Jill might be suspicious.

Although I like to hang shit on Jill for this turn of events, it's actually realistic that a relationship can be fucked up by such a thing.

People who have argued that caring for Sage is a "Chick" thing to do, and therefore Jill should reward you for such a thing rather than it be the catalyst for the end of the relationship, are taking the Chick/DIK concept too far.

While this is indeed a computer program, if done right, it shouldn't feel like a computer program. There shouldn't be a formula to follow that is always right, because life isn't like that, and the game endeavours to emulate life (to an entertaining degree, we don't actually need to see every time the mc needs to take a dump).

So even though we know that Jill goes for "Chick" guys, that doesn't mean all "Chick" actions will get her juices flowing.

So when a potential girlfriend wants to go out and you've made plans with a different girl, don't say, "Sorry, I'm actually off to see another girl, she's sick and needs me to massage her tits". My advice, tell her you need to help your father deal with the bittersweet emotions of it being your birthday but your mom died giving you birth. That shit is gold.

I really hope Pink somehow explains this strange choice. The only thing that comes to my mind is that Sage and Jill, if not enemies, then clearly treat each other badly. Jill could somehow find out that this sick friend is Sage and be offended by MC. Maybe if we reject Jill for Sage, it will somehow explain it.

I don't think there will be a further explanation for Jill's choices. She's already explained herself. Do you really want an in depth explanation to the workings of the female mind?

The birthday date was what made her realize she had strong feelings towards the MC as well as realize that he had strong feelings for her. It was an important moment. The problem is that the game doesn't show us that the date is that important and sort of tricks many into choosing to go to Sage because of that.

The thing is, she already very much enjoys the mc's company. She already likes him a lot. There are, however, red flags in the relationship (him getting into fights, pranking the preps, fucking heaps of other women).

There easily could have been other dates, but she decided to end it all because he turned her down once. The mc wasn't asking her to marry him...

This wounds me.

I am, however, starting to agree with those who have surmised that DPC wants to go more mainstream with his next game. Something less porn and more adult (like Mass Effect levels of lewdness). More story and adventure than sexy time is what I mean. With his comments on Interlude and AL, it seems he enjoys serious things (drama) more than fun things.

I was thinking more like The Witcher 4: Dandelion and Geralt.

Also known as The Witcher 4: DnG.

She comes with a birthday surprise, not some major request. And she doesn't take it as a personal affront. She's a bit disappointed. It's just that without that special moment together they would have at that picnic the spark isn't lit for her. So when he tries to have sex with her, she feels like they aren't as close as she wishes they were because they never had that special moment together that made her feel like it was right, the moment he convinced her to give him a chance. Without that key moment she kept feeling insecure about the whole thing.

Should she ignore her own feelings and just go with it so not to hurt MC's feelings, because that's basically what you're saying. That she was out of line to feel the way she did and to tell him how she felt. So, she should have just pretended everything was OK and ignored her gut feeling and not been honest with him?

Also, she doesn't know he was with a sick friend (and you make it sound like Sage was terminally ill or something, she had a cold). She's not upset about him helping a friend who got a cold, she just feels like they aren't connecting the way she expected them to because they never had that key moment together.

She actually does know he was with a sick friend:

mc: "I'm so sorry. You caught me at a bad time."​

mc: "I made a promise to a friend to come help her."​

mc: "She's sick and needs someone to take care of her."​

Jill: "Oh... Yeah, of course. I understand." (Seriously, you're choosing another girl over me!?)​

Jill: "I didn't plan anything big. It was spontaneous." (I went to all this trouble, for nothing!?)​

Jill: "You're allowed to have other plans. Haha..." (Well, that's the last time I do anything nice for you!)​

Jill: "So, uh. Happy birthday." (Fuck you!)​

But just look at Jill response. It's dripping with spite!

 

[NewTricks]

I did a little play test to test some assertions and found it interesting that so long as you do go to the picnic and bond with Jill you can get her in the end even if you punched Tybalt, knocked out his teeth in front of her at the tennis match, and put a giant dick in his presentation. What struck me while doing this is the sadistic glee that Sage takes in seeing his presentation ruined in that fashion. So even if she knows that Josi and Sage both sucked his dick she is still willing to give the relationship a chance if he went to the picnic. She must really like picnics.

 

[27X]

She comes with a birthday surprise, not some major request. And she doesn't take it as a personal affront. She's a bit disappointed. It's just that without that special moment together they would have at that picnic the spark isn't lit for her. So when he tries to have sex with her, she feels like they aren't as close as she wishes they were because they never had that special moment together that made her feel like it was right, the moment he convinced her to give him a chance. Without that key moment she kept feeling insecure about the whole thing.

Should she ignore her own feelings and just go with it so not to hurt MC's feelings, because that's basically what you're saying. That she was out of line to feel the way she did and to tell him how she felt. So, she should have just pretended everything was OK and ignored her gut feeling and not been honest with him?

Also, she doesn't know he was with a sick friend (and you make it sound like Sage was terminally ill or something, she had a cold). She's not upset about him helping a friend who got a cold, she just feels like they aren't connecting the way she expected them to because they never had that key moment together.

[Translation:] Jill Jill Jill Jill Jill control control control control insecurity insecurity insecurity naive naive naive naive jill jill jill mc [/translation]

For being scupulous and principled as hell, Jill is not a white knight in totality. None of the LIs are all one thing, and that includes Princess Wannanonookie.

 

[Warscared]

I don't think there will be a further explanation for Jill's choices. She's already explained herself. Do you really want an in depth explanation to the workings of the female mind?

yes please, i have invested/wasted 30 years of my life on women i know how to click and rotate the buttons, i know how to read their actions and reactions, and i can even understand what they are going for in the short term most of the times!

what i have yet to figure out is wtf is their long term plan? seriously.

appart from the fact that they change after becoming mothers and the dudes they want to procriate with are not the dudes they want raising her kids, i have yet to understand them!

even worse the dudes they want to have fun is most of the times are not the same dudes they want to procriate with... not to mention that every little shit is a drama and a catastrophe and the me me me me me me me me and then maybe you... just kidding it´s me again, attitude!

my theory is very incomplete but they want to have fun with dudes who are capable and have the means to
they want to have kids with dudes who are attractive and capable
and they want to raise their kids with the smart beta´s who are capable

the only thing in common is the dudes hability to think on their feet and act in a satisfactory way but the abilities they demand from one thing is diferent then the abilities they demand on another thing or in another part of their life!

it´s the good old i want a big house and a nice new car every 2 years but fuck you if to pay for that you have to work 60 hours a week and have no time for her mothers bullshit anniversary, you´re paying for her mothers party already are you suposed to make the money out of thin air? are you forced to enjoy a nice weekend when it costed you 20 extra hours of work and a part of your soul to pay for that shit?

 

[AchedCroissant]

mc: "I'm so sorry. You caught me at a bad time."
mc: "I made a promise to a friend to come help her."
mc: "She's sick and needs someone to take care of her."
Jill: "Oh... Yeah, of course. I understand." (Seriously, you're choosing another girl over me!?)
Jill: "I didn't plan anything big. It was spontaneous." (I went to all this trouble, for nothing!?)
Jill: "You're allowed to have other plans. Haha..." (Well, that's the last time I do anything nice for you!)
Jill: "So, uh. Happy birthday." (Fuck you!)

MC: Jill I can't go with you because I have a friend who has leukemia and I am the only person on earth compatible with her for a Bone Marrow Transplant.
Jill: Oh... Yeah, of course. I understand." (Seriously, you're choosing another girl over me!? I hope she dies and you too son of a bitch)

 

[Heyesey]

Anyway, back to the sequence of events:

• So mc misses out on another date with Jill, when she goes to see her friends.
• Then it's the recital, and she has her meltdown, and then, like a total superhero boyfriend, the mc goes up on stage and saves her bacon. I mean who the fuck in real life would do such a thing. It's the kind of romantic insanity that only happens in movies and AVNs. When a guy does that kind of amazing shit for you, it has to count for something, right?

Reading that someone thinks they're entitled to a relationship because they helped out a friend might just be the most horriying thing in this entire thread so far.


[/quote]

She actually does know he was with a sick friend:

mc: "I'm so sorry. You caught me at a bad time."​

mc: "I made a promise to a friend to come help her."​

mc: "She's sick and needs someone to take care of her."​

Jill: "Oh... Yeah, of course. I understand." (Seriously, you're choosing another girl over me!?)​

Jill: "I didn't plan anything big. It was spontaneous." (I went to all this trouble, for nothing!?)​

Jill: "You're allowed to have other plans. Haha..." (Well, that's the last time I do anything nice for you!)​

Jill: "So, uh. Happy birthday." (Fuck you!)​

But just look at Jill response. It's dripping with spite!
[/QUOTE]

No, it isn't. Your entirely-made-up subtext is, but that just shows what sort of a person you are, in case anyone was left in any doubt after the rapey vibe you gave off in the first quote.

 

[ename144]

If Interlude required, I wish it could have been about Lana and her downfall instead of surfing mini games and Zoey sucking d on the beach for tattoo and burrito money. Or as a compromise, make the Interlude about the back stories of several different characters, not just Zoey. Show a little bit of Lana, flash over to Bella or perhaps Jade/Cathy B&R origins, or whomever, etc. Give us a few backstories and clear up some mysteries that have been longstanding. That I would be quite interested in seeing even if it were mostly lewd free. Interlude is the perfect time to turn back the hands of time and get a better understanding of the ladies who have been so secretive about their pasts.

Hmmm. I could get behind that. It would certainly mitigate the problem of crashing the story to a complete halt to introduce a character I don't care about. It would be a much smoother way to integrate Zoey into the existing cast and would make me less nervous about what her role in Season 3 will be.

She comes with a birthday surprise, not some major request. And she doesn't take it as a personal affront. She's a bit disappointed. It's just that without that special moment together they would have at that picnic the spark isn't lit for her. So when he tries to have sex with her, she feels like they aren't as close as she wishes they were because they never had that special moment together that made her feel like it was right, the moment he convinced her to give him a chance. Without that key moment she kept feeling insecure about the whole thing.

Should she ignore her own feelings and just go with it so not to hurt MC's feelings, because that's basically what you're saying. That she was out of line to feel the way she did and to tell him how she felt. So, she should have just pretended everything was OK and ignored her gut feeling and not been honest with him?

Also, she doesn't know he was with a sick friend (and you make it sound like Sage was terminally ill or something, she had a cold). She's not upset about him helping a friend who got a cold, she just feels like they aren't connecting the way she expected them to because they never had that key moment together.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree. Jill was borderline obsessed with the MC if he kissed her during their date, to the point she briefly considered going farther with him at Bella's house in Episode 5. But then in Episode 6 she completely cuts off contact with him because she wants to protect him from Tybalt. She changes her mind again when she learns it's his birthday. But she expects him to be up for a surprise party at the drop of a hat: bear in mind she didn't even know he had no classes that day!

If the MC complies, Jill explains the Tybalt situation and is right back to obsessing over the MC. But if the MC isn't free, there's no discussion of rescheduling; Jill simply writes the guy off forever. During their Episode 7 conversation on Monday (3 days later), she'll still explain the Tybalt situation but stonewalls the MC when he attempts to pick up where they left off.

Again, the reason the MC hasn't seen her much is that she's been avoiding him! When he goes on to climb the balcony to see her after tennis, she can't accept it because "something about this feels off." When he reveals he's been practicing her song for weeks and helps her at the concert, then runs across the city to get her out of the mess she put herself in, she just shoots him down.

Clearly, she does take the rejection personally. Yes, she will blame destiny, but I don't see how that makes it any better. As others mentioned, she balls her eyes out if the MC photobombs Tybalt's presentation, but it's all water under the bridge (even if he was boning Sage!)... as long as he did whatever she wants whenever she wanted to. It's a really, really bad look for Jill. And it could easily have been avoided if DPC didn't get lazy and inflate the importance of that one choice beyond any reasonable sense of proportion.

I can't take Jill seriously as a LI if I accept that scene as presented. So I prefer to chalk it up to a bout of bad writing and ignore the larger implications. But if I have to parse my way though, it just can't work. I don't care how romantic the picnic was, if Jill's that spooked by the MC inadvertently failing to live up to her unspoken expectations, then their relationship is a disaster waiting to happen.

People who have argued that caring for Sage is a "Chick" thing to do, and therefore Jill should reward you for such a thing rather than it be the catalyst for the end of the relationship, are taking the Chick/DIK concept too far.

While this is indeed a computer program, if done right, it shouldn't feel like a computer program. There shouldn't be a formula to follow that is always right, because life isn't like that, and the game endeavours to emulate life (to an entertaining degree, we don't actually need to see every time the mc needs to take a dump).

So even though we know that Jill goes for "Chick" guys, that doesn't mean all "Chick" actions will get her juices flowing.

So when a potential girlfriend wants to go out and you've made plans with a different girl, don't say, "Sorry, I'm actually off to see another girl, she's sick and needs me to massage her tits". My advice, tell her you need to help your father deal with the bittersweet emotions of it being your birthday but your mom died giving you birth. That shit is gold.

Yes, people overstate the importance of the DIK/CHICK system. Jill is within her rights to take umbrage at the MC giving chest massages to his sick, busty friend. Then again, I'm also within my rights to stop being friends with a woman so emotionally insecure that she relies on her own horoscope to judge my worth. If DPC is going to deny me the latter, Jill gets no pass on the former.

Mind you, I'm not trying to tear the game apart. Like you, I enjoy the characters and appreciate that there's a lot of excellent material here. But there are a few problems that really annoy me, and Jill's arc has a couple of them.

 

[Warscared]

No, it isn't. Your entirely-made-up subtext is, but that just shows what sort of a person you are, in case anyone was left in any doubt after the rapey vibe you gave off in the first quote.

you sure you are reading him right and not just projecting? cause my psychologist would say it´s very hard to diferentiate the two and that is why even psychologist need another psychologist instead of trying to analyse themselves!

and do pay attention even psychologists get it wrong quite a few times and that is why it takes years of practice and even then they are not immune to the common mistakes we all make!

i tend to joke about that shit and i have read enough philosophy books never to be certain of anything and everyday at least 300 times a day i fail... the other option being loosing the entire day analysing the 1st 5 minutes after i wake up so... we all know why we put things on fast track and our brains keep tricking us so we can move on with our life!

Shazba is hardly the rapey vibe kind of dude, his asumptions about relationships might be based on a purely transactional learning curve while yours might be diferent, the pre disposition towards agressive actions is normally dictated by the shadowself as Jung so well explained!

i was once acused of sending such vibes and i have a very well integrated shadow (i hope...), the way i choose to enjoy my sexuality in a more agressive way does not preclude the consent of the female with whom i intend to interact in such a way!
So sending such vibes and acting in accordance with such vibes are two totally diferent things!

there is a reason why beteween 75 up to 90% of all rapes are made by acquaintences if not close friends or family members who tend to have a very deep and dark shadow and normally an ingrained dissatisfaction with life!

you know the goody goody types who act out of frustation instead of the people who accept they have a dark side and try to integrate it into their personalities in a healthy way!

and do pay attention what might be a healthy way might leave you a darker persona and more agressive on the outside and therefore might not be in accordance with what society considers adequate but better a little bit off then the usual excuse of i do not know why i did it, or it was not me i am not that kind of person!

Also the sub text exists for comedic reasons, it might or it might not be how she see´s the world, its the interpretation that you give to it that enables you to project and then try and analize him under that lense! thats how straw men arguments are made, you project onto others your own values instead of understanding them and then say how you would act not giving the person being attacked a chance to defend themselves!

mainly because the person being attacked if they have a diferent moral value pyramid or matrix can not even defend themselves since they would never act in such a way!

 

[shazba]

Reading that someone thinks they're entitled to a relationship because they helped out a friend might just be the most horriying thing in this entire thread so far.

...

No, it isn't. Your entirely-made-up subtext is, but that just shows what sort of a person you are, in case anyone was left in any doubt after the rapey vibe you gave off in the first quote.

Dude, I think you keep missing the point.

My final two sentences in that section of the response to you (the one you cherry picked a quote from so you could argue it out of context and call me rapey... ), was:

"It's just not enough for Jill. And that's OK, but she still didn't have to dump him in the restaurant in such a scene..."​

The entire argument that I've been pushing is that publicly dumping the mc wasn't called for. He didn't deserve that. Maybe you're misinterpreting that I have an issue with him being dumped. I don't. It's the "public" part that I'm on about.

Jill actually used the momentum of having just destroyed Tybalt to help her continue with ending the relationship with the mc. It was a dreadfully insensitive way to do it. I'd go so far to call her a cunt for doing it that way.

Regarding the last part of my response to you, I was mainly highlighting that you were wrong when you said Jill didn't know he was going to see a sick friend. But the subtext was a joke. Everyone else here knew it was a joke. The little shocked face is typical used to feign shock in a comical sense.

And on a side note, if you think your misinterpretation of what I was saying is the most horrifying thing in this entire thread so far, you may have missed this one:

It's a rape.

Sorry dalli_x, you're never gonna live that one down.

 

[Killerwhale5678]

E

The bit that gets me, the part that's the icing on the cake of the break up, is Jill's assertion:

Jill: "And you'll be my friend..."​

Presumptuous much bitch? How about... No.

Why did player that played the whole game as diks expected to be accepted by chick Li.

 

[sixart]

E
Why did player that played the whole game as diks expected to be accepted by chick Li.

Don't worry... a theory about this is on the horizon !

 

[Walter Victor]

And that's OK, but she still didn't have to dump him in the restaurant in such a scene...

The entire argument that I've been pushing is that publicly dumping the mc wasn't called for. He didn't deserve that. Maybe you're misinterpreting that I have an issue with him being dumped. I don't. It's the "public" part that I'm on about.

Jill actually used the momentum of having just destroyed Tybalt to help her continue with ending the relationship with the mc. It was a dreadfully insensitive way to do it. I'd go so far to call her a cunt for doing it that way.

Just think about that scene. She has just received a marriage proposal from a guy for whom she has absolutely no romantic feelings or even respect. So she boils over and eviscerates him on the spot. Then here comes your MC. If she loves him, all well and good, they go off into the sunset together. But if not, given her emotional state at the moment, it would be irrational for her NOT to cut the MC off from any further notions of romance. She's too emotionally embroiled to put off that conversation to some later, more private, time. That doesn't make her a "cunt"; it makes her someone who, like most of us, doesn't always do things the way they should when under stress.