VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Episode 5 definitely changed the context of the library scene, especially if you picked the friendship route. Whether that was his intention all a long or only happened because so many people wereunhappy/confused in the wake of Episode 4 is probably something only DPC will ever know.

But either way, some followup was badly needed. The library scene just didn't work properly as written. It was the culmination of an entire episode's relentless angst, the (supposed) turning point in the MC's two most significant relationships in the game at that point. Yet it it barely addressed any of the underlying issues, put the focus on the girls instead of the MC (to the point of that infamous kiss as a friend MC walks away), and in the end it still left the relationship of the trio somewhat ambiguous no matter what you chose.

There's a reason everyone criticizes that scene (even if they like it).

EDIT:
It occurs to me that I was already worried about how long this story would be and how much time it will take DPC to tell it. Comparing it to aSoFaI is not a good omen!

Just something about the fact that based of a few choices the girls could be so cold as to make out just like that. Immediately after telling someone they both cheated on their significant other, who they loved so much, that nope it meant nothing and they just want to be friends. I know some cold blooded people but man brother THATS"S COLD!

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

The great fallacy of this game is believing that by rejecting or not pursuing things with a certain LI that it closes them off completely, but it doesn't. Since these characters are necesssary to the overall story, they have to remain and as such are given unavoidable moments and events even when you're not on their path that seem to hint at future chances for intimacy.

It's something of a flaw in this game because if you're going to make LIs so optional then you should either not have them be so intrinsically linked to the overall plot surrounding the MC, or at least clearly establish a more friend-based relationship if they've been rejected.

It seems like DPC is trying to do a kinetic story but with lots of choices, and sometimes it feels like the merger of these two very different styles of game don't always gel together in a way that makes the story cohesive.

Which makes me wonder just how different can we realistically expect the endings to be.

 

[Manuka]

Down the rabbit hole...

Just something about the fact that based of a few choices the girls could be so cold as to make out just like that. Immediately after telling someone they both cheated on their significant other, who they loved so much, that nope it meant nothing and they just want to be friends. I know some cold blooded people but man brother THATS"S COLD!

Well, sometimes people do things in a way they did not intend for it to be hurtful. Maybe they were just caught up in the moment--future seemed bleak until certain things suddenly became possible?

 

[Manuka]

Down the rabbit hole...

You should jump in, it's where all the fun is.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Well, sometimes people do things in a way they did not intend for it to be hurtful. Maybe they were just caught up in the moment--future seemed bleak until certain things suddenly became possible?

I can't see it. They had already had their reunion and their makeup.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

I never watched the show but I read the entire series. But You're not alone thinking that with ep.5, it seemed like a big change in tone for me, but we'll see. RR Martin's also a "discovery" writer, not much of a consistent planner. He has a general outline where he wants to take it but ends up growing characters "organically" as you say. We'll see what happens.

I posted some time ago about DPC being a discovery or architect type of writer, and we didn't come to a consensus. AL made me thing he was the former, but BADIK looks like the might be the latter. There's lots of potential to side plotlines to explore and lots of intersting characters. I still think he is more of an architect but who knows. I hope he doesn't make characters act ooc to justify plot points he wants to make, but if we use the library scene as a reference we're screwed.

Episode 5 definitely changed the context of the library scene, especially if you picked the friendship route. Whether that was his intention all a long or only happened because so many people wereunhappy/confused in the wake of Episode 4 is probably something only DPC will ever know.

But either way, some followup was badly needed. The library scene just didn't work properly as written. It was the culmination of an entire episode's relentless angst, the (supposed) turning point in the MC's two most significant relationships in the game at that point. Yet it it barely addressed any of the underlying issues, put the focus on the girls instead of the MC (to the point of that infamous kiss as a friend MC walks away), and in the end it still left the relationship of the trio somewhat ambiguous no matter what you chose.

There's a reason everyone criticizes that scene (even if they like it).

EDIT:
It occurs to me that I was already worried about how long this story would be and how much time it will take DPC to tell it. Comparing it to aSoFaI is not a good omen!

The threeway route also changed a bit, with the "no strings to any of us" after pretty much the opposite happened the day before that. He said a lot of times (even in the intro) that he will make the story he wants to make regardless of public opinion, but it still feels like a retcon.

The problem with ASOIAF was becoming too wide and Martin being unable to stick to a deadline. DPC as for now hasn't failed one and pulls out content consistently. In that regard at least we can't criticize him

I can't see it. They had already had their reunion and their makeup.

Yeah, that scene was about the MC, not them. They've just dumped someone they both supposedly love and had cheated the other one with and they still kiss.

 

[Manuka]

I posted some time ago about DPC being a discovery or architect type of writer, and we didn't come to a consensus. AL made me thing he was the former, but BADIK looks like the might be the latter. There's lots of potential to side plotlines to explore and lots of intersting characters. I still think he is more of an architect but who knows. I hope he doesn't make characters act ooc to justify plot points he wants to make, but if we use the library scene as a reference we're screwed.

No offense to dpc, I don't think he has much of soul for writing like RR Martin given the nature of the game. At best, the story is fun to engage with for visual effects yet not that complex, the characters seem pretty dense, especially the MC--there's no tone to any character, they all have the same voice, no real distinction besides a few lax or sophisticated words, that is up until ep 5. Everything seems to jump to tense to keep the interest up--boobs and butt in between--but there's nothing leading up to it--which is a sign of a bad writer. But to each their own, not everyone likes Martin, not everyone likes Rowling's writing, the same goes for this dpc person.

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

I posted some time ago about DPC being a discovery or architect type of writer, and we didn't come to a consensus. AL made me thing he was the former, but BADIK looks like the might be the latter. There's lots of potential to side plotlines to explore and lots of intersting characters. I still think he is more of an architect but who knows. I hope he doesn't make characters act ooc to justify plot points he wants to make, but if we use the library scene as a reference we're screwed.

The threeway route also changed a bit, with the "no strings to any of us" after pretty much the opposite happened the day before that. He said a lot of times (even in the intro) that he will make the story he wants to make regardless of public opinion, but it still feels like a retcon.

The problem with ASOIAF was becoming too wide and Martin being unable to stick to a deadline. DPC as for now hasn't failed one and pulls out content consistently. In that regard at least we can't criticize him

Yeah, that scene was about the MC, not them. They've just dumped someone they both supposedly love and had cheated the other one with and they still kiss.

IIRC didn't DPC state that he has the endings planned out in the Q&A he did back in February? If so wouldn't that also include major plot points?

 

[RonWeasleyJr]

In the prologue to episode 2, has anyone ever been able to figure out which girl is passed out on the bed behind Quinn as she stands there with the hypodermic needle?

Presumably Riona, but you can't get a clear view of the character's head/face. Could also be Heather, assuming the coin flipper is Tommy.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

In the prologue to episode 2, has anyone ever been able to figure out which girl is passed out on the bed behind Quinn as she stands there with the hypodermic needle?

Presumably Riona, but you can't get a clear view of the character's head/face. Could also be Heather, assuming the coin flipper is Tommy.

No clue who the girl is never paid that much attention but the coin flipper is Tommy for sure.

 

[ename144]

Which makes me wonder just how different can we realistically expect the endings to be.

The actual endings can be pretty different if DPC wants them to be. If the game only covers the first year or so of the MC's time at B&R, epilogues that explain what happens over the next decade or more can diverge as much as they want to. Assuming DPC plans ahead, he can put the points of divergence in the last few episodes, then end the story and narrate what happens based on a relatively manageable number of variables.

The real question is how different the various routes leading up to those endings will be. My guess is they will be fairly similar, aside from the direct results of who the MC is dating at that point.

The threeway route also changed a bit, with the "no strings to any of us" after pretty much the opposite happened the day before that. He said a lot of times (even in the intro) that he will make the story he wants to make regardless of public opinion, but it still feels like a retcon.

Honestly, I think 'no strings attached' was exactly what DPC intended all along. Look at what the Episode 4 wrap-up says about it:

Spoiler: I'll have to figure it out...

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I think the intention was always supposed to be that the MC realized he treated every crush as if it had to be The Real Thing For Ever And Ever (tm). Thus it was a sign of maturity that he now planned merely to fool around with girls for a bit and see if anything more develops (say, in 8-12 episodes time). The takeaway of the library scene wasn't supposed to be that the three of them were so committed to each other they were willing to to risk entering a polyamorous relationship, it was that the MC would fool around with M&J as a group rather than individually.

Of course that wound up backfiring completely. Not only was such a resolution underwhelming after the intense buildup, but the focus on Maya and Josy repairing their relationship contradicted the idea that youthful crushes shouldn't be taken seriously. A big fail all around.

(Well, other than the choice of music. I adore Just Peachy.)

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

I think the intention was always supposed to be that the MC realized he treated every crush as if it had to be The Real Thing For Ever And Ever (tm). Thus it was a sign of maturity that he now planned merely to fool around with girls for a bit and see if anything more develops (say, in 8-12 episodes time). The takeaway of the library scene wasn't supposed to be that the three of them were so committed to each other they were willing to to risk entering a polyamorous relationship, it was that the MC would fool around with M&J as a group rather than individually.

I can't see it that way. Maya and Josy LOVE each other. Granted they had some issues and almost ended but they both say on the bed that they still LOVE each other. Both Maya and Josy talk about later how they are afraid to lose it all if they (all 3 of them) don't work out. I don't know about you Brotha but I sure as hell wouldn't risk a just repaired love relationship for just a fling. Maya and Josy are potentially risking their emotional happiness to add something that Maya still has doubts about even wanting. Doesn't pass the common sense test to me.

Edit - Takeaway is that we all pretty much agree that the "Library" scene is BROKEN AS FUCK!

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

No offense to dpc, I don't think he has much of soul for writing like RR Martin given the nature of the game. At best, the story is fun to engage with for visual effects yet not that complex, the characters seem pretty dense, especially the MC--there's no tone to any character, they all have the same voice, no real distinction besides a few lax or sophisticated words, that is up until ep 5. Everything seems to jump to tense to keep the interest up--boobs and butt in between--but there's nothing leading up to it--which is a sign of a bad writer. But to each their own, not everyone likes Martin, not everyone likes Rowling's writing, the same goes for this dpc person.

DPC is not Martin, that's for sure, and the story is not that deep. But considering that I think the characters feel like they have their own personalities and act accordingly, except certain library scene...

The story can become complex, though. If the tribetas are the ones behind Chad's blackmail and all that. It has the potential to grow wide in lots of ways, which can be a good thing if it's properly done.

IIRC didn't DPC state that he has the endings planned out in the Q&A he did back in February? If so wouldn't that also include major plot points?

Yeah, but that doesn't mean he's one or the other. You can have a few plot point and the endings planned out in either case. The difference is in how you reach those points, calculating the whole story beginning to end or letting it grow.

In the prologue to episode 2, has anyone ever been able to figure out which girl is passed out on the bed behind Quinn as she stands there with the hypodermic needle?

Presumably Riona, but you can't get a clear view of the character's head/face. Could also be Heather, assuming the coin flipper is Tommy.

It could also be Elena. Weren't Elena and Johny Boy having sex while Tommy and Quinn were talking? (Maybe I'm mistaken, I can't review it right now).

The actual endings can be pretty different if DPC wants them to be. If the game only covers the first year or so of the MC's time at B&R, epilogues that explain what happens over the next decade or more can diverge as much as they want to. Assuming DPC plans ahead, he can put the points of divergence in the last few episodes, then end the story and narrate what happens based on a relatively manageable number of variables.

The real question is how different the various routes leading up to those endings will be. My guess is they will be fairly similar, aside from the direct results of who the MC is dating at that point.


Honestly, I think 'no strings attached' was exactly what DPC intended all along. Look at what the Episode 4 wrap-up says about it:

Spoiler: I'll have to figure it out...

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I think the intention was always supposed to be that the MC realized he treated every crush as if it had to be The Real Thing For Ever And Ever (tm). Thus it was a sign of maturity that he now planned merely to fool around with girls for a bit and see if anything more develops (say, in 8-12 episodes time). The takeaway of the library scene wasn't supposed to be that the three of them were so committed to each other they were willing to to risk entering a polyamorous relationship, it was that the MC would fool around with M&J as a group rather than individually.

Of course that wound up backfiring completely. Not only was such a resolution underwhelming after the intense buildup, but the focus on Maya and Josy repairing their relationship contradicted the idea that youthful crushes shouldn't be taken seriously. A big fail all around.

(Well, other than the choice of music. I adore Just Peachy.)

If that was his intention all along then it wasn't properly communicated. The general understanding after that scene seemed to be a closed relationship.

And I agree about Just Peachy

 

[Tserriednich'sNen]

So MC's birthday will be covered in 6th episode or in 7th ??

We don't know when exactly it is so we can't say for sure, it could even happen in Season 2's final episode or before. We only that it's coming up so that's an event to look forward to in season 2 which will likely be significant given it's about his mom according to Neil.

 

[julezzz]

Playing for the first time. The story so far leading up to meeting Jill feels like an Asian drama... lol

 

[lemonfreak]

Not to mention a lot will depend on DPC's intentions, if it's to be purely about the letter then MC could go home as early as the next epsiode, however, there are other possibilities depending on the path you're on:

- MC wants to take Jill home to meet his dad

- MC wants to take Sage home to meet his dad

- He wants to intoduce Maya and Josy to his dad
- M&J are keeping their secret for now so Josy goes home and Maya stays with MC

- MC is friends with M&J so they travel together but M&J stay with Pete and Monica

- MC and Josy travel together as friends but grow closer while apart from Maya


All of those would need to occur later, some could happen in Ep6 but for convenience should probably all happen in Ep8.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Uh Bra, hold your horses, wedding? You sure you are not playing Sisterly Lust here? Pregnant and Wedding in 144 days?

MC is a full chick in is heart
I don't know who his wife will be, but he will wear white

 

[felicemastronzo]

I am pretty sure I will just state the obvious, but:

All this "forced romance" is a necessary evil. Implementation of the story in other ways would simply not be possible. So complaining about it seems just plain stupid to me ("I dont want to date Josy" "I tried my best to avoid Maya and we still kissed" "I tried my best to piss off Jill and we still went on a date" "That's not how it should be - Stupid Illusion of choice" yadayadayada).
Forced Romance as in: Kissing Maya, Date with Josy, Date with Jill etc.
It is absolutely impossible to avoid those scenarios, due to the plot and how it's driven.

You can ignore Bella and/or Sage during chapter 4 but in the end Sage and Bella will befriend you back in Chapter 5. Same with Josy and Maya. That's cause all of those characters are important for the plot.
And tbh that's how it should be.

DPC crafted a very interesting story, where everything does happen in a fixed way. Your choices technically only affect which H-scenes you can and will see. But the overall plot demands every single Love Interest to be present and that's the best decision DPC could make to create such a good game.

I am pretty sure that the ending will be an accumulation of your choices and different endings will be available, but knowing DPC I am quite positive, that most choices in this game do not matter for the overall plot (THAT'S how it should be btw, lest you want to program/write a 1TB Renpy game).

I am still mad when people complain about the affection system, the dating system and whatnot after they played the game 5 times and gamed the system. It's not really meant to be gamed. If you look at it with a more experienced/gamified viewpoint with DIK points/Relationship points, of course the game falls apart.

But playing the game for the first time and making decisions on a very personal level with the feedback at the end of each chapter how much Chick/Dik you are: Wonderful decision by DPC. Kudos to such a great design.

And yes. That forced romance was a big reason why I did not like Acting lessons that much. It really dragged down my experience being forced into a relationship with Megan, while not being interested in any of those girls. Still... I enjoyed the game and I knew that it was a necessary sacrifice DPC made.

TLDR: Dont complain about forced romance and/or the point/affinity system, unless they are blowing it WAY out of proportion/context. If you do I can't help myself rolling my eyes at you.

my judgment on the game remains very good, I am not unbalanced because in my opinion the ending is worth half the judgment on any story (and I am always worried that the game actually ends ...)

it is not a problem that the story has forced passages, it is a thing common to almost all games and it is understandable, as you say, also for a technical question

the problem is making choices and seeing them completely ignored.

for example: when MC is at Josy's dinner, he can decide whether to stay or go home. the choice makes sense, if we focus on Maya we may not want to betray her, Josy then at that moment seems to be going away.
I agree that 99% of players will choose to stay, it's a porn game and we play for that.

but if you choose to leave, Josy will be punished by her parents anyway, so she will be without a phone and will not be able to notify Maya.

what is that choice for? just delete it, nobody would complain about it.

this situation has led me, but I think many players, to follow 2 paths: always look for lewd scenes, or play in defense. both possibilities kill roleplay enough

 

[AvatarStormBringer]

You should jump in, it's where all the fun is.

Already deep down in it and swimming, ignoring all the other swimmers around me.

 

[Playstorepers]

IMHO and really just my opinion here,

I can totally understand the "retcon" of the library scene in ep.5.
I don't know about you guys, but is it really that farfetched that even after saying "I just want to be friends" there is still emotional baggage still in the air?

And Josy and Mayas reaction especially are very relatable.
Josy feels like she had no choice to hang on to the friendship even though she clearly had feelings for the MC. So once the friendship was offered she latched on to it since not doing so would potentially mean she would have lost Maya and MC.
Maya was also always attracted to MC and the talk in the room afterwards where MC pledges his loyalty can understandably be confusing, considering the fact they were almost lovers about 2-4 days (!) ago.

The only inconsistent factor is the MC since it is a projected character of yourself, so I get that some people already ended their relationship with Maya and Josy after Chapter 4 library scene (Some even before) in their head, but I absolutely do understand why Maya/Josy/MC act and think that way in chapter 5. It's just almost impossible to get closure after 1 day.
Even though I do see, why people think that it is off.