VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[zoyle]

I bet I have a pretty realistic idea of what the above means for someone. Without knowing your life I don't know if you do.

Accessory means you have actual involvement with the above listed crimes. Being the president of the house doesnt make you an accessory

Do you have any idea how unlikely university administration and law enforcement would be to believe that the president of a sorority didn't know that one of their own officers was running a drug and prostitution ring right out of her own house? And if the girls involved say that Sage knew (which they have every incentive of, because it means she takes more of the fall), there's almost no one available to testify that she didn't know - it would be her word against theirs, in a situation where she is responsible for their actions. At the very least, it could get her expelled before she graduates or the HOT fraternity disbanded entirely (it is objectively a more serious offense than, say, the naked picture of Cathy that the DIKs are so worried about). Legal culpability is somewhat more nebulous, but she would definitely be charged and have to defend herself and have her reputation tainted, and would probably have a difficult time if the other defendants all claimed she knew (and, in fact, most law enforcement would offer plea deals to the regular girls in order to take down the ringleader, and they could easily believe Quinn is acting at Sage's instruction if Quinn claims thus).

And you should probably go back and replay the section at the end of Episode 4 where Derek meets with Maya and she then tells the MC 'nope, I HAVE to do this HOT thing and get the free tuition, I dont have any choice or any other options, i NEED it'. Every piece of evidence we've been given is that Maya's parents don't accept her lesbian orientation, and it's clear she believes they won't pay (or won't continue to pay) for her education. That may or may not be true, but the character Maya clearly believes it is true. She is going to get pressured and she is going to agree to do things she shouldn't do, and it will just be a question of whether (or even if its possible) for the MC to prevent her from making the mistakes, or make her hesitate via their prior warnings.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I actually don't watch a lot of either because the bs drama forced stuff drives me nuts.

But every single form of fictional media, whether it's movies, TV shows, video games, books, comic books, or adult games, inherently has "bs drama forced stuff" because it is in the very nature of storytelling, so you can't really avoid this when it comes to fiction. You have to accept that certain things will happen that are outside of your control and that these things may involve something that might seem to you to be "illogical", or that you're not that invested in and can easily resolved by the character just not getting involved, but that would be boring and result in a much less entertaining story.

Whether you care about Quinn and her situation is irrelevant because it matters to the story, and if there were to be a decision later in the game where you can let her die, then you make that decision at that time, but until then we'll likely have to be part of her narrative.

 

[zoyle]

As in, Sage finds out Melanie was the one contacting Chad and telling him about her relationship with MC, she'll get furious. Maybe Melanie and Sarah are plotting something against Sage, she showed in the past that she don't condone Quinn's action, so they try to get rid of her, maybe? Chad's side chick could be anyone really

I guess its true people see what they want in any art, but I thought it was pretty clear to me that this scene was establishing that Melanie is the girl Chad's been seeing, and that she and Sarah think this will be the thing that goads Chad to break up with Sage so that Melanie can have him (since he can claim he was in the right and she was cheating on him, and he hates the MC very a lot). Breaking up with a boyfriend isn't going to take Sage down as president of the sorority, and that plotline is already going on w/ Heather/Riona having a conversation earlier in the chapter.

As with anything, I guess, many options are possible, but I think this dialogue is pretty direct in the purpose it's serving, as well as illustrating how completely isolated Sage is inside her own group - since Mona and Camila are also new pledges, it doesn't appear that there's a single named member of the HOTs who isn't involved in something or other behind her back (I guess Arieth, since she's comic relief idiot). Come to think of it, I think it's actually reasonably likely that Sage will need the new pledges to work out as members in order to have any sort of base of support that isn't compromised by either Heather or Quinn.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Do you have any idea how unlikely university administration and law enforcement would be to believe that the president of a sorority didn't know that one of their own officers was running a drug and prostitution ring right out of her own house? And if the girls involved say that Sage knew (which they have every incentive of, because it means she takes more of the fall), there's almost no one available to testify that she didn't know - it would be her word against theirs, in a situation where she is responsible for their actions. At the very least, it could get her expelled before she graduates or the HOT fraternity disbanded entirely (it is objectively a more serious offense than, say, the naked picture of Cathy that the DIKs are so worried about). Legal culpability is somewhat more nebulous, but she would definitely be charged and have to defend herself and have her reputation tainted, and would probably have a difficult time if the other defendants all claimed she knew (and, in fact, most law enforcement would offer plea deals to the regular girls in order to take down the ringleader, and they could easily believe Quinn is acting at Sage's instruction if Quinn claims thus).

And you should probably go back and replay the section at the end of Episode 4 where Derek meets with Maya and she then tells the MC 'nope, I HAVE to do this HOT thing and get the free tuition, I dont have any choice or any other options, i NEED it'. Every piece of evidence we've been given is that Maya's parents don't accept her lesbian orientation, and it's clear she believes they won't pay (or won't continue to pay) for her education. That may or may not be true, but the character Maya clearly believes it is true. She is going to get pressured and she is going to agree to do things she shouldn't do, and it will just be a question of whether (or even if its possible) for the MC to prevent her from making the mistakes, or make her hesitate via their prior warnings.

Believe is one thing able to prove is something else. Granted you are right that the HOT's could all lie and say Sage was involved but witness testimony is normally the easiest thing to get thrown out. As soon as the stories start to show errors or differences then you can trip them up and get them nailed for perjury/false statements which can have serious legal ramifications.

 

[Darkdevil66]

Yet it's something I agree with. The AAA's are set up as antagonists that I can see why I should feel that way. They are bullies as the MC gets bullied by them so I FEEL that. Invested? Yes. A logical/emotional assumption that works. Quinn selling drugs and pimping out her fellow sisters is not something that I can become invested in because I feel Quinn is a pos. The difference is that parts of it work and parts of it don't and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

But your personal appreciation for a character is completely irrelevant for the sake of the story. If you don't feel invested, it's your personal issue pal. Like it or not, Quinn is a central character and the drugs business is a central part of the story. DPC doesn't have to drop it just because you or others players can't stand her character, just like he doesn't have to make M&J completly dissapear because a part of fandom can't stand them anymore. According to some here, he should even drop the D&D sequence because "it's too fan service" and "not relevant enough".

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

but if every character is justified in doing what he likes, as a player, what interest do I have in thinking about what to do with each proposed choice?

Why if I don't care about Jill, she still has to be a constant threat to my every approach to Bella?

why if MC just kissed Josy before he went to college, he got to be put out by Maya?

if everything has to go like this what do I choose to do?




that's not quite the case

if in AL you are very loyal to Megan you don't have to choose who to save, rightly so.

the scene loses much of the dramatic sense, Melissa is ultimately Megan's best friend, not MC's. and in fact it is one of the least engaging endings (even less than the one done badly for Rena)

the story is much more complete in the case of "mini harem" and that's the story that DPC had in mind.

but if as a player you are interested in Melissa you have to betray Megan's trust. DPC knows this and lets you get away with it, but there is no narrative reason

That's something I didn't like about AL, Melissa's route felt wrong. I hope we don't get anything similar here, but Jill and Bella are starting to look awfully similar...

I thought Chad was just coming out of the closet (gay), huh.

No, wait, gotta think college-story narrative. Big brain thought, the girl Chad has fallen for is the cute nerd girl that's dating the head of the Triple Betas!

Believe it or not you're not the first one to suggest that one...

After the Sage/MC makeout scene is over:

Sarah: No, you hide a side bitch, you don't kiss them passionately out in the open
Sarah: Not when you're in a relationship
Melanie:...
Sarah: This will make it easier when Chad breaks up with her.
Melanie: I'm gonna go call him.
Sarah: Easier..but Sage will still be furious.
Melanie, with hand on her neck and changed expression: If things every go south..you'll have my back, right?
Sarah: Don't I always?
Melanie: I'll always have yours, too.
(scene ends)

I don't know how you read that and don't think it's implying Melanie is the one (pretty strongly, really).

We know she wasn't the one Chad was talking at the phone when we were sneaking around, because she was in the gym training. That pretty much rules her out.

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

But your personal appreciation for a character is completely irrelevant for the sake of the story. If you don't feel invested, it's your personal issue pal. Like it or not, Quinn is a central character and the drugs business is a central part of the story. DPC doesn't have to drop it just because you or others players can't stand her character, just like he doesn't have to make M&J completly dissapear because a part of fandom can't stand them anymore. According to some here, he should even drop the D&D sequence because "it's too fan service" and "not relevant enough".

Calm down. No one has said anything about dropping Quinn. I am just pointing out that parts of the story dont make a lot of sense. Thats the whole point of these discussions. Just because you don't like my "devil's advocate" post doesn't give you a right to call me "pal" and be condescending. I realize its part of the story but that doesn't mean I need to like it. Its just part I have to deal with. Jeez take a chill pill already

 

[zoyle]

But your personal appreciation for a character is completely irrelevant for the sake of the story. If you don't feel invested, it's your personal issue pal. Like it or not, Quinn is a central character and the drugs business is a central part of the story. DPC doesn't have to drop it just because you or others players can't stand her character, just like he doesn't have to make M&J completly dissapear because a part of fandom can't stand them anymore. According to some here, he should even drop the D&D sequence because "it's too fan service" and "not relevant enough".

Honestly when I read his comment, the thing that I kept thinking is that it's apparent the OP has a hard time empathizing with consequences for other characters instead of the MC serving as his own avatar. The AAA and others are bullies to the MC, so the player feels like the target, whereas Quinn is kind of a bitch to the MC, but is mostly a threat to other characters, especially the character who is integrated into the plot to the degree that you're expected to care what happens to her (Maya).

I think it says more about the poster than the quality of the storyline or the creation.

 

[Pewdiepie9966]

I guess its true people see what they want in any art, but I thought it was pretty clear to me that this scene was establishing that Melanie is the girl Chad's been seeing, and that she and Sarah think this will be the thing that goads Chad to break up with Sage so that Melanie can have him (since he can claim he was in the right and she was cheating on him, and he hates the MC very a lot). Breaking up with a boyfriend isn't going to take Sage down as president of the sorority, and that plotline is already going on w/ Heather/Riona having a conversation earlier in the chapter.

As with anything, I guess, many options are possible, but I think this dialogue is pretty direct in the purpose it's serving, as well as illustrating how completely isolated Sage is inside her own group - since Mona and Camila are also new pledges, it doesn't appear that there's a single named member of the HOTs who isn't involved in something or other behind her back (I guess Arieth, since she's comic relief idiot). Come to think of it, I think it's actually reasonably likely that Sage will need the new pledges to work out as members in order to have any sort of base of support that isn't compromised by either Heather or Quinn.

Fair enough, don't gonna say that you are wrong cause it's your theory nonetheless. It can go either way for me: Chad's sidechick being one of the HOTs or one relatively close to the MC or one who has nothing to do with the MC. Maybe it just depends on our choice to help Sage finding the sidechick or not

 

[moskyx]

What's the reason why MC doesn't tell Maya all he knows about Quinn's business and the most logical assumptions of it regarding the 'free tuition'? His warning is deliberately vague enough for her to ignore it, thus allowing bad things to happen in the long term in all paths. It may have consequences as Maya would recognize MC tried to warn her, but in the end we won't be able to stop it in time because it seems to be too important in the planned story. Yet any normal person would have been way more specific in his warning, and especially a white-knight type like this MC (him being a CHICK or a DIK doesn't matter, we all agree he's a good guy well raised-up by his father, one who can differenciate good from evil, and drugs and prostitution are clearly evil even if he's taking some advantage of it). This is obviously a frustrating choice (I do want to tell her everything because I care for her and, when giving the option to do so, I actually can't for plot reasons).

About AL, I said some weeks ago that the way MC is forced in a relationship with Megan is quite frustrating, not because the relationship is indeed forced (many games imposes the player a girlfriend from the start or have just only one LI), but because you have many chances to neglect her and you can tell Liam you don't like her that way, yet in the end your MC falls for her, makes a move on her and decide to explore some feelings we, as players, are constantly avoiding and denying. And only in the end those actions have the consequence of not being able to save her. If we hadn't had that options, ironically everything would flow better, because we'd knew we can't do shit about it and would have gone with the flow, accepting we can't change that, and then in my opinion the dreadful choice would have been even more touching. So giving those false choices is actually damaging the gaming experience.

And, in this regard, why nobody is asking why we can't warn Sage about Quinn's scheme? Only because we weren't presented that option and, while one could think it should be there, it's not, and we all move on without giving it too much thought.

 

[zoyle]

That's something I didn't like about AL, Melissa's route felt wrong. I hope we don't get anything similar here, but Jill and Bella are starting to look awfully similar...

Believe it or not you're not the first one to suggest that one...

We know she wasn't the one Chad was talking at the phone when we were sneaking around, because she was in the gym training. That pretty much rules her out.

You make a good point about the gym scene, I'll have to look back at that one.

As far as AL/Melissa/Bella/Jill, the only thing that I feel like I want to add there is that I expect there to be a different dynamic with Jill and Bella because it would be kind of an odd choice to support two different throuple relationships with such a small difference between them. I expect the Jill/Bella scenario to resolve in a way that is substantially different from Maya/Josy, though that could also happen because the Maya/Josy relationship itself doesn't survive. However, given what we see of the interaction between Bella and Jill, I don't expect that to turn into some sort of lovey-dovey poly relationship, as the interactions we see between Bella and Jill are just as stilted and frigid as the original interactions between Bella and the MC. I wouldn't be super surprised if the game doesn't turn out to have a Jill/Bella ending, or that if it does, it's one where you're cheating on Jill or messing around with Isabella with her permission, and not one where you're in a 3 person relationship.

 

[Phynix]

What's the reason why MC doesn't tell Maya all he knows about Quinn's business and the most logical assumptions of it regarding the 'free tuition'?

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't her "menu" optional? So for those who ignored it, it wouldn't make sense to make a big deal of this because they don't know enough.

 

[felicemastronzo]

What's the reason why MC doesn't tell Maya all he knows about Quinn's business and the most logical assumptions of it regarding the 'free tuition'? His warning is deliberately vague enough for her to ignore it, thus allowing bad things to happen in the long term in all paths. It may have consequences as Maya would recognize MC tried to warn her, but in the end we won't be able to stop it in time because it seems to be too important in the planned story. Yet any normal person would have been way more specific in his warning, and especially a white-knight type like this MC (him being a CHICK or a DIK doesn't matter, we all agree he's a good guy well raised-up by his father, one who can differenciate good from evil, and drugs and prostitution are clearly evil even if he's taking some advantage of it). This is obviously a frustrating choice (I do want to tell her everything because I care for her and, when giving the option to do so, I actually can't for plot reasons).

About AL, I said some weeks ago that the way MC is forced in a relationship with Megan is quite frustrating, not because the relationship is indeed forced (many games imposes the player a girlfriend from the start or have just only one LI), but because you have many chances to neglect her and you can tell Liam you don't like her that way, yet in the end your MC falls for her, makes a move on her and decide to explore some feelings we, as players, are constantly avoiding and denying. And only in the end those actions have the consequence of not being able to save her. If we hadn't had that options, ironically everything would flow better, because we'd knew we can't do shit about it and would have gone with the flow, accepting we can't change that, and then in my opinion the dreadful choice would have been even more touching. So giving those false choices is actually damaging the gaming experience.

And, in this regard, why nobody is asking why we can't warn Sage about Quinn's scheme? Only because we weren't presented that option and, while one could think it should be there, it's not, and we all move on without giving it too much thought.

we do not even talk to her about the restaurant, whether we have been customers (in that case we might not say it out of "shame") or if we are only aware of it

 

[Cndyrvr4lf]

Honestly when I read his comment, the thing that I kept thinking is that it's apparent the OP has a hard time empathizing with consequences for other characters instead of the MC serving as his own avatar. The AAA and others are bullies to the MC, so the player feels like the target, whereas Quinn is kind of a bitch to the MC, but is mostly a threat to other characters, especially the character who is integrated into the plot to the degree that you're expected to care what happens to her (Maya).

I think it says more about the poster than the quality of the storyline or the creation.

I lack empathy for people who abuse others. I personally believe they are a waste of oxygen. I don't like being railroaded in to drama when I can see how the MC could stop it but as moskyx said we aren't allowed to because of plot reasons

 

[zoyle]

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't her "menu" optional? So for those who ignored it, it wouldn't make sense to make a big deal of this because they don't know enough.

MC DOES try and tell her, though he doesn't tell her the details. The official walkthrough from DPC even notes "This decision has major consequences for Maya!" even though, to date, there are no consequences in the game.

I said this earlier but I can imagine a situation where a MC who declined to take Quinn's service can't convince Maya of the truth, and you need to have accepted her number and not ordered all the options to be able to set up a situation where you place an order and show Maya that one of the girls shows up.

 

[Phynix]

Why I've been asking if there is a flag regarding this (as with the ep5 sex scene) to see if it really does make any difference....I imagine all it will do is give Maya some inner monologue perhaps if you warned her and she will go off in the direction DPC wants her to anyway.



Whether you accept her menu or not, it's pretty obvious even to the nerdiest virgin in the world exactly what she is offering before you get the 'choice'. So regardless, the MC knows.

Yeah its obvious to the player, but not to MC, or Sage, or anyone else close but still oblivious.

 

[zoyle]

I lack empathy for people who abuse others. I personally believe they are a waste of oxygen. I don't like being railroaded in to drama when I can see how the MC could stop it but as moskyx said we aren't allowed to because of plot reasons

That you can see those consequences and the easy way to stop it does not necessarily mean that an 18 year old kid in their first week of college can either see the consequences or see the solution that's evident to someone with more life experience.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I guess its true people see what they want in any art, but I thought it was pretty clear to me that this scene was establishing that Melanie is the girl Chad's been seeing, and that she and Sarah think this will be the thing that goads Chad to break up with Sage so that Melanie can have him (since he can claim he was in the right and she was cheating on him, and he hates the MC very a lot).

A lot of people thought that at first, until they were reminded that when Chad is here:



Melanie is here:



Now, whilst we don't get a view of her front to see if she has any kind of earphones or headset, we can clearly see that there is nothing in her hand or anything attached to her waist, arm, or leg, so where then would her phone be?

I think that scene is more about Sarah and Melanie knowing something about Chad, like they're keeping a secret for him and that him breaking up with Sage will help with this thing he is keeping secret.

 

[zoyle]

I like that, that would actually be a good way of doing it.

I'm actually going to make a 2nd chick-route save that accepts the info from Quinn explicitly for this reason. I may also have that character not pursue Isabella, in case messing around with Isabella makes some or all Jill endings unachievable.

 

[Darkdevil66]

Calm down. No one has said anything about dropping Quinn. I am just pointing out that parts of the story dont make a lot of sense.

It's a porn game with a chick's magnet, nothing was believable since the start. You're just taking things too seriously and personally.

Thats the whole point of these discussions. Just because you don't like my "devil's advocate" post doesn't give you a right to call me "pal" and be condescending.

Jesus, you're so easily offended. No wonder why a character like Quinn pisses you off.

I realize its part of the story but that doesn't mean I need to like it.

And yet, you're the one complaining again and again.