VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

I'm afraid this isn't a matter of courage, more so, its the opposite what you suggest. The courage for Maya would be to get along with the prostitution. Not becoming one doesn't require courage. Becoming one does.

Again, since the beginning of the game, its all nice and shiny that she shouldn't.. okay. Whats the alternative. She shouldn't because the mc wouldn't like it? Thats not just a tad bit selfish but massively so.

She won't be, on her route, but due to real-life reasons. Because DPC likely won't try to pull an ntr on anyone. So this is pretty much a given. We can safely assume this. BUT.. in the game, in-character wise. Its nice that the mc would hate it... Offer an alternative. Can he solve Maya's financial crisis? No? Then he should shut the fuck up and mind his own business. Yes? She will be all ears because she is desperately looking for alternatives. She just doesn't have them.

But the game won't let her become one, this is prett much a given. Its just that the solution may come from different sources. I'd say the mc can handle her Dad. By becoming Maya's boyfriend. Proving she is "returning to the fold of decent heterosexuals". CURRENTLY... this seems viable, not without issues, but viable. We'll see what the future holds.

let's not exaggerate ...

personally I have always found childish to think of being able to face college with a free tuition of dubious origin

but the alternative is not prostitution, but ANY HONEST WORK.
even in Italy where education is quite cheap, many students work while they study.
in america i know that it is very common to ask for a student loan

to say that Maya's only way to go to college is prostitution seems like a sensational exaggeration ...
Will she become a Mafia serial killer for her doctorate?

but rather she leaves the university and lives her dream of love with Josy

 

[felicemastronzo]

Maya most certainly does NOT know what she has to do for the tuition and she is absolutely NOT prostituting herself. Absolutely nothing happens during that pool scene where Maya would realise that she has to sell her body for free tuition, and there's no way she'd do anything sexually physical with anyone for money, even if Quinn tells her to. It's not in her character to do that no matter what's at stake.



It doesn't, because a) it's not in Maya's character to do that, and b) if Quinn had tried to make her to do it, we would have known about it by now, either by Maya saying it outright or by her no longer wanting to join the HOTs.

sorry i didn't understand (my english fault)

I thought we were talking about Maya's future involvement in prostitution, not as it already has


in that I agree with Holy Bacchus, I would absolutely exclude it

 

[Ennoch]

but the alternative is not prostitution, but ANY HONEST WORK.

Absolutely agree. But we aren't writing the script here we just have to deal whats given to us. Apparently its either we solve this for her or HOTs. We are not given the option to tell her to accept part time jobs. Currently.

even in Italy where education is quite cheap, many students work while they study.
in america i know that it is very common to ask for a student loan
to say that Maya's only way to go to college is prostitution seems like a sensational exaggeration ...
Will she become a Mafia serial killer for her doctorate?

Don't tell me, tell DPC. I made a joke on this once. I know. But we have to deal with the game's reality. Not actual reality.

 

[moskyx]

Is it ? Keep in mind this game is above all a porn game. I know some people are more interested in characters and story and there's nothing wrong with that, but one of the main goal is still to provide a lot of sex scenes. Quinn's restaurant is big a part of it. Porn doesn't usually expose seriously dark and gritty's aspects of prostitution's world ( In hentai prostitution, rape, drugs and mind breaking are even tags some fans actually enjoy, but that's another debate. Man, there's even a Weinstein based game here ). The way the MC handle the whole prostitution thing isn't realistic from the start.

Honestly speaking, the Pink rose is more a brothel than a strip club at this point. The ladies have sex with VIP customers. There are clearly kind of hookers but neither players or characters have issues with it. Because none of them seem depressed, defenseless or forced to perform. The MC even started a sexting relationship with a hooker mom. Same thing for Quinn's restaurant. All interactions with the MC are portrayed as completely consensual. Camila enjoyed it so much she offered him anal freely, Sarah admitted being sexually aroused, Riona was the one suggesting the threesome because she likes him much more than others customers. All of them would have fucked him anyway. They actually did later. Even Quinn has an obvious crush for him and fucked him freely. Assman is so attractive that he doesn't have to pay anymore and hookers like it.

That's a poor way to represent relations between hookers and customers. But the point is, DPCK has never intended to be realistic about it. Yeah there will be issues with Mona and Burke. But Burke is portrayed as an unsympathetic and pathetic cheater lustful for younger women. The Mc on the other hand is too gifted to be realistic in any way. So does his relation to women.

Ok with all of that, except this is not a porn game above all. DPC doesn't make porn games. This is an adult VN with sex, of course, but not a porn game. So porn logic doesn't (shouldn't) apply. If he throw a prostitution scheme in the plot it's not because that's an easy way to have several sex scenes from the start, there must be a deeper reason for it and it's reasonable to think it would lead to some drama related to it. We'll see if it's just for Maya or for other girls too.

Honestly, MC's approach to prostitution is quite common nowadays. Many people think of it as something fun and even harmless (young guys especially, maybe misguided by porn). It is not, most of times. Sure the sexual acts in game seem and feel consensual (Patreon and Steam might have some issues otherwise) and obviously all the girls would love to do it with the almighty MC for free. But the story is heading to a point where we could witness some serious stuff regarding some of the 'willing' whores. As I said before, I even would be disappointed if that's not the case. Not because I have any interest in watching that kind of material, but because I think it would fit DPC's style perfectly fine.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

At the very least, this "event" Quinn mentioned could have been to flash someone or post a nude pic on the internet and sell it for $100, but it wouldn't have been anything close to glory hole duty or something that it involves direct sexual contact with another person.

I think you're hopelessly naive.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Absolutely agree. But we aren't writing the script here we just have to deal whats given to us. Apparently its either we solve this for her or HOTs. We are not given the option to tell her to accept part time jobs. Currently.

Don't tell me, tell DPC. I made a joke on this once. I know. But we have to deal with the game's reality. Not actual reality.

put emoticons on when you joke that I don't understand ...

the free tuition was the easy solution (and childish for me), if it were to skip I expect Maya to look for a different one, not to accept whatever Quinn offers her, the evil Quinn...

and again: Maya alone could really fall for it, but luckily she isn't

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

I'm afraid this isn't a matter of courage, more so, its the opposite what you suggest. The courage for Maya would be to get along with the prostitution. Not becoming one doesn't require courage. Becoming one does.

Again, since the beginning of the game, its all nice and shiny that she shouldn't.. okay. Whats the alternative. She shouldn't because the mc wouldn't like it? Thats not just a tad bit selfish but massively so.

She won't be, on her route, but due to real-life reasons. Because DPC likely won't try to pull an ntr on anyone. So this is pretty much a given. We can safely assume this. BUT.. in the game, in-character wise. Its nice that the mc would hate it... Offer an alternative. Can he solve Maya's financial crisis? No? Then he should shut the fuck up and mind his own business. Yes? She will be all ears because she is desperately looking for alternatives. She just doesn't have them.

But the game won't let her become one, this is prett much a given. Its just that the solution may come from different sources. I'd say the mc can handle her Dad. By becoming Maya's boyfriend. Proving she is "returning to the fold of decent heterosexuals". CURRENTLY... this seems viable, not without issues, but viable. We'll see what the future holds.

You don't understand the psychology of prostitution. It has nothing to do with courage, prostitutes turning tricks for pimps don't do it as a matter of choice, they do it through manipulation and coercion.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I'm afraid this isn't a matter of courage, more so, its the opposite what you suggest. The courage for Maya would be to get along with the prostitution. Not becoming one doesn't require courage. Becoming one does.

Again, since the beginning of the game, its all nice and shiny that she shouldn't.. okay. Whats the alternative. She shouldn't because the mc wouldn't like it? Thats not just a tad bit selfish but massively so.

Very much disagree with that assessment.

Maya is currently in a tricky spot where she doesn't have the tuition support of her Dad, but for her to give in to that pressure and whore herself out for the HOT tuition would be weakness, not courage. It would be far more courageous for her to reject what the HOTs are offering because she would be taking both a moral and principled stance by not selling herself out. She can still take out a student loan, and she's even aware that that's something she might have to think about, and that too would be a more courageous act because she'd be taking on a lot of risk and responsibility herself, knowing full well how hard it can be to pay those back. But she'd do it because she has to and it would be the courage of her convictions that will not allow her to whore herself out just for a "free ride".

She won't be, on her route, but due to real-life reasons. Because DPC likely won't try to pull an ntr on anyone. So this is pretty much a given. We can safely assume this. BUT.. in the game, in-character wise. Its nice that the mc would hate it... Offer an alternative. Can he solve Maya's financial crisis? No? Then he should shut the fuck up and mind his own business. Yes? She will be all ears because she is desperately looking for alternatives. She just doesn't have them.

But the game won't let her become one, this is prett much a given. Its just that the solution may come from different sources. I'd say the mc can handle her Dad. By becoming Maya's boyfriend. Proving she is "returning to the fold of decent heterosexuals". CURRENTLY... this seems viable, not without issues, but viable. We'll see what the future holds.

I agree she won't got down that road, but I think the solution could be with the MC's mysterious letter. The theory that he'll be given some kind of endowment or inheritance from his rich family could come in to play here because maybe the MC will have the choice to offer to pay Maya's tuition or not.

I think you're hopelessly naive.

And I think you're reading things wrong.

 

[Ennoch]

You don't understand the psychology of prostitution. It has nothing to do with courage, prostitutes turning tricks for pimps don't do it as a matter of choice, they do it through manipulation and coercion.

Yeah, lets not get not into the topic who understands the psychology of whatever, shall we? This isn't the thread if nothing else.

 

[xsssssssss]

let's not exaggerate ...

personally I have always found childish to think of being able to face college with a free tuition of dubious origin

but the alternative is not prostitution, but ANY HONEST WORK.
even in Italy where education is quite cheap, many students work while they study.
in america i know that it is very common to ask for a student loan

to say that Maya's only way to go to college is prostitution seems like a sensational exaggeration ...
Will she become a Mafia serial killer for her doctorate?

but rather she leaves the university and lives her dream of love with Josy

Depends on the scale of the fees surely.
Certainly working through College is common for many where i am but doesn't stop mass debt but equally there will be those who see better money from escorting/sugar daddy as a more direct solution.
I've always from my limited understanding taken that it is much more expensive in US to go to private colleges so not sure a regular job would cover if she isn't getting any aid.
I could see an ending where Maya may drop out in scenario where she is not helped by mc.

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

OK, I've said my piece on this topic. I stand by every assertion I've made.

Maya DOES know what's expected of her. There's no way anyone can doubt that after watching the pool scene.

Quinn isn't just rough around the edge's she's a vicious, evil, bitch.

The fact that Maya won't get a job to earn her way through college is a point that's bothered me from the beginning of the game. It's either a contrived plot point or it's an indication of Maya's personality. I will note that during the camping scene Maya admits that she's never had a job.

Discuss away, I'm going to work.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I agree she won't got down that road, but I think the solution could be with the MC's mysterious letter. The theory that he'll be given some kind of endowment or inheritance from his rich family could come in to play here because maybe the MC will have the choice to offer to pay Maya's tuition or not.

I do not like the solution that it is Mc to pay the tuition with his "inheritance".
Maya has already shown a submissive character, but such a debt would be a huge burden in any relationship.

Maya must cope with her own strength, naturally with the support of those close to her

 

[Ennoch]

The fact that Maya won't get a job to earn her way through college is a point that's bothered me from the beginning of the game. It's either a contrived plot point or it's an indication of Maya's personality. I will note that during the camping scene Maya admits that she's never had a job.

Of course its the plot. It was always the plot. Thats what i'm saying all the time when this issue comes up. This is the story's drama variant for her. Everyone knows she could do part time jobs. But that would be super boring. An escape of a situation the storyteller ment for suspense. Plus, lets not forget, that wouldn't require our hero's interevention.

Sure, it can be presented that we will talk her into accepting a job.. yeah that can work. But obviously we are not yet given any such option. Its just nonsense saying what she should do... what if i never wanted to join this DIK bunch? Its not up to me. The plot makes me. Maya's issues are not resolved in a nice, conventinal fashion. Plot.

 

[Rinbael]

I do not like the solution that it is Mc to pay the tuition with his "inheritance".
Maya has already shown a submissive character, but such a debt would be a huge burden in any relationship.

Maya must cope with her own strength, naturally with the support of those close to her

I agree with you. I think Maya dealing with her situation on her own with the help of Josy, Derek and possibly the MC would be a much better way to develop her character rather than becoming a hooker or having the MC pay her tuition with his magic "inheritance".
The main reason why I don't really like Maya is because she is so submissive and reliant on other people and her becoming more independent and standing up for herself is a much better evolution of her character in my opinion. Though some people might prefer her being a damsel in distress needing to be saved.

 

[moskyx]

He's made one game. No basis for factually saying what he does and doesn't do. 5 games in the future? Sure, you can state what he does and doesn't do with sosme manner of accuracy and fact. It's a porn game, with more serious matters and better writing (than most). But don't be confused with what it is and isn't.

Yeah, it's his second game. In his first we have domestic abuse, cancer, a psycho, some hints of drug trafficking and police corruption, and the psychological trauma of a hurting loss. In his second we have a prostitution and drug-dealing scheme going on, plus all the family drama from Josy, Maya and even MC's families, not to mention Bella, Jade and the rest. And above all, we have that warning from the author telling us this is not *just* a porn game and it's not recommended for people who are in a dark moment of their lives (he could have easily avoided this disclaimer at all or make another one swearing he won't do it again, but he made this one). It's obvious he wants to tell a story that goes way beyond the sexy bits, a story about what family is, and it seem the hurdles we'll have to overcome might be serious and maybe dramatic. So I think I'm not risking a lot when I say what I'm saying

 

[felicemastronzo]

Of course its the plot. It was always the plot. Thats what i'm saying all the time when this issue comes up. This is the story's drama variant for her. Everyone knows she could do part time jobs. But that would be super boring. An escape of a situation the storyteller ment for suspense. Plus, lets not forget, that wouldn't require our hero's interevention.

Sure, it can be presented that we will talk her into accepting a job.. yeah that can work. But obviously we are not yet given any such option. Its just nonsense saying what she should do... what if i never wanted to join this DIK bunch? Its not up to me. The plot makes me. Maya's issues are not resolved in a nice, conventinal fashion. Plot.

they are two different speeches though.

the plot for now has led Maya to try to get the free tuition, it's not incredible, even Josy who would have the money does.
until to get it you have to play goliardic or sexual jokes why not?
when the perspective will change we don't know what the plot will predict (I know but I don't tell you)

that a girl who in two dates has not been able to manage a penis (majestic but still one) can serenely embrace prostitution is not credible.

in the same way that if tomorrow we find out that Jill has a penis and Bella a collection of skulls in the locked room will be a plot, but a plot bullshit

 

[xsssssssss]

I agree with you. I think Maya dealing with her situation on her own with the help of Josy, Derek and possibly the MC would be a much better way to develop her character rather than becoming a hooker or having the MC pay her tuition with his magic "inheritance".
The main reason why I don't really like Maya is because she is so submissive and reliant on other people and her becoming more independent and standing up for herself is a much better evolution of her character in my opinion. Though some people might prefer her being a damsel in distress needing to be saved.

I'd prefer different outcomes for Maya (towards end) depending on choices made. If one of those is Maya remaining submissive(damsel saved), versus another where she faces tough choices herself and has to find a new more realistic path, rather than hoping for a magic no strings free tuition option or someone to save her.

 

[Kuraii]

I'd prefer different outcomes for Maya (towards end) depending on choices made. If one of those is Maya remaining submissive(damsel saved), versus another where she faces tough choices herself and has to find a new more realistic path, rather than hoping for a magic no strings free tuition option or someone to save her.

I agree with the second option.

I really like Maya, but I'm not going to deny that an independent character evolution is what is needed. Yes, with the help of Josy and / or the MC, but as those who advise her, not as those who decide to directly solve the problem if she is unable to do so.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

OK, I've said my piece on this topic. I stand by every assertion I've made.

Maya DOES know what's expected of her. There's no way anyone can doubt that after watching the pool scene.

Quinn isn't just rough around the edge's she's a vicious, evil, bitch.

The fact that Maya won't get a job to earn her way through college is a point that's bothered me from the beginning of the game. It's either a contrived plot point or it's an indication of Maya's personality. I will note that during the camping scene Maya admits that she's never had a job.

Discuss away, I'm going to work.

I would encourage you to go back and replay the pool scene because there isn't a single line where it's explicitly stated that Maya and Mona, who mentions the free tuition as well, will have to whore themselves out for it. All we have is Quinn's suggestive line about "loose hips, get tips", but that's hardly a definitive confirmation of what they have to do and can easily be interpreted as Quinn just being Quinn.

In fact, I'll save you the hassle.



So please, do point out where Maya was definitively told she'd have to whore herself out to get the tuition.

I do not like the solution that it is Mc to pay the tuition with his "inheritance".
Maya has already shown a submissive character, but such a debt would be a huge burden in any relationship.

Maya must cope with her own strength, naturally with the support of those close to her

He could offer it, but she doesn't necessarily have to accept if she's determined to stand on her own 2 feet, but it could come with a variable flag like "MC_offer_Maya_tuition = True/False", and it could be something that is recalled later.

 

[Ennoch]

that a girl who in two dates has not been able to manage a penis (majestic but still one) can serenely embrace prostitution is not credible.

in the same way that if tomorrow we find out that Jill has a penis and Bella a collection of skulls in the locked room will be a plot, but a plot bullshit

Didn't you just tell me not to exaggerate and now you are doing it.. twice in fact? Thats unfair I wanna exaggerate too!!