VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[PinkGoddess]

 

[Lightaces]

I've had so many horrific conversations with parents and loved ones who sound exactly like so many people on this form and are so convinced that she would never do that. That's not true, she would.

Reading David Simon's book on the Baltimore Homicide Unit, one of the cops says something to the effect of, "Any person can kill, at any moment, for any reason. No matter how much you think, 'they aren't that kind of person,' you're wrong." Now, cops do tend to see people at their worst, and that does effect their world view, so I wouldn't agree with that statement really (after all, a homicide cop isn't going to be investigating a murder by someone who actually never would!), but given the right situation, Maya absolutely would bow to Quinn's manipulations. Quinn sees Maya having an argument with Maya's father, understands why the free tuition means so much to Maya, and all of a sudden she's right there next to Maya;

Quinn: Oh my god! I had no idea you were going through something so bad.

Maya: Go away, what would you know.

Quinn pauses: My father...well... (pauses again) never mind....

Maya (wanting to feel anything but what she is feeling): no wait, what...

Quinn: He didn't like my first boyfriend...thought I was too young to be dating...(tells story, maybe true, probably BS)

Maya: I didn't know.

Quinn: Yeah.

Quinn: Look, if you need money, I...no, never mind, you wouldn't want to do that...

Maya: what?

Quinn (turns her back to Maya, smiles to the camera): I couldn't ask you to do that, it just wouldn't be right...

It's not even a slight stretch. The way the characters are written, it pretty much seems inevitable.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I'd tried to make this point earlier and still no one get's it. Would Maya make the choice to become a prostitute? No. Is Maya making a choice in this situation? No, Maya has fallen into the sphere of a ruthless manipulator who will use her to their own ends. Quinn will entice, manipulate and coerce Maya into that glory hole booth and get what she wants, money and the satisfaction of have Maya in her power. Hell, Maya's even used to this kind of dominance from her Father. (not saying Maya's Father is prostituting her, but he is running her life).

I speak from a narrative point of view, which is what interests me most

your reasoning is missing the fundamental aspect: Maya is not alone, this always makes the difference
if she were isolated for me too it is likely that Quinn would be able to use her as a puppet, but she is not.
and college is such a small environment that nothing happens "covertly"

Which Quinn never says. If you wish to continue to extrapolate and assume things, then even if Quinn has told her (outside of a scene we as the player sees)...then even she doesn't tell us, she would tell Josy, and Josy (as she is written) would sure as hell tell us.

So no, Maya has no idea.

Well, on this it is likely that Quinn might have had another chance to continue the conversation with May

but at that point Maya, as she always has, would have asked MC or Josy or both for help

so I don't think it happened, but it's not implausible that it could have happened

I didn't follow Maya in my game. I'm not in the threesome, because it's ridiculous, and didn't have sex with either. I guess that poor flag will have to stay unfurled.

I don't understand why I should not follow a girl from the game (even separately)

today I don't know what the most interesting and exciting route will be

 

[felicemastronzo]

At the end of the day, we all know Maya needs the 'free' tuition purely to drive the plot. It's the perfect excuse to get the shy, feminist character to pledge the party-girl sorority; sexy, drama-filled hijinks ensue.

That said, I do think there are a few possible fig leafs to explain her obsession with it. We know from her initial discussion that she IS taking out student loans already. So the real question is why student loans are enough for a 'poor' student like the MC, but not enough for Maya. Three possibilities occur to me.
View attachment 781891 View attachment 781889

First, she's just more properly paranoid than the MC is: loans need to be paid back, and the MC may not realize just how big his debt truly is. We know economics isn't something the MC thought much about until Jill brought it up. Still, this seems unlikely.

Second, Maya had to take smaller loans because she refuses to work part time the way the MC and Josy did. This is supported by her comment that her dad wouldn't let her work in the Episode 4 flashback. So it's a great explanation... except that given how committed she seems to be to getting out from under her father's thumb, you'd think she'd be doubly committed to getting a job (she can simultaneously earn much needed money and defy him.) Could not getting a job be one of the terms of his ultimatum? Maybe.

But I think the most plausible explanation is that Maya's parents refused to co-sign her loans. Normally that's how young people with no record of financial responsibility can avoid ruinous interest rates. The MC's family is poor, but his dad has been working for decades, so he could have a decent credit record and at least a little collateral to back up the MC. Maya on her own, though, has more or less nothing. So it would make sense that she simply couldn't afford to borrow enough to pay for her tuition - even if she does work part time on the side.

So that's my attempt at rationalizing the situation. YMMV.

good analysys

I know the student loan only through films and therefore I am not very sure, but it is a debt practically without guarantees made directly to the students, there is no need for a guarantor

of course BR is not necessarily in the US, and it is not even said that DPC thought about it

so I would espouse the second hypothesis

Why you so sure it won't happen? I find it perfectly possible plotwise that, at some point, Maya will decide to try it out because she sees that's her only way to stay in college. Even if that's not entirely true because there are always other options, she can be confused enough to be dragged in by Quinn and the other girls, or even angry enough for being left on her own (the final push given by the MC stealing Josie from her after showing her she likes boys too) to give it a go. In a normal situation she wouldn't take that step, but with a fucked-up state-of-mind and in a moment of need, everything is possible and her personality seems submissive enough to let herself go under such circumstances.
NTR claims? I don't think DPC would worry too much about that, more so if he does it near the end.

in the scenario you described it would be possible.

but in that case Maya could make any ill-advised choice: from suicide, to drugs, to prostitution

for her it would really be an extreme scenario, and she should be the one to distance herself from the two "traitors" who otherwise would continue to watch over her anyway

 

[felicemastronzo]

I agree... to a point.

Maya obviously wouldn't WANT to turn tricks for Quinn, so if the question is ever put to her straight up she will clearly say no. But she has shown that she can rationalize her way into terrible decisions by downplaying the cost and overvaluing the upside, then refusing to re-evaluate as the situation devolves. Her pledge to the HOTs started innocently enough, but it keeps getting worse. Even though she thought about calling it off after it escalated to public and/or group sex, she couldn't actually go through with that.

So as much as I don't like it, I do think Maya could wind up feeling trapped into going along with Quinn's schemes under the right circumstances. But those circumstances are tricky. If you don't isolate Maya from her friends (Derek, Josy and the MC), I don't think she'll feel the despair needed to cross that final threshold. On the other hand if you crush her spirit too thoroughly, I think that rather than join Quinn's band, Maya would instead cave to her father and resolve to become the soulless 'good girl' she was supposed to be all along. (Which, in some ways, might be an even worse fate. Isn't this a pleasant topic?)

So while I agree that Maya is vulnerable to coercion and pressure, I think she's currently in a place where those feelings are still manageable. That could easily change (especially in routes where the MC rejects her and still pursues Josy). In that event, it's even money which way Maya would turn when she breaks.

None of this, of course, should be read as my personal desire; I'm firmly in favor of Maya getting some heavy character growth and patching up her life once and for all. But I definitely worry about what could happen to her.

unfortunately in the triangle between Maya, Josy and Mc someone will be screwed

and Maya, by character, is the one who would suffer the most from it.

I add a consideration: it seems that we will tackle the drug problem first, as we get out of it will tell us a lot about what can happen. if Mc will help Quinn then if not out of jealousy (which would point out Quinn's negativity) it becomes difficult to think that Quinn will still attack Maya. but it could also be an opportunity to worsen the relationship between Quinn and MC, in which case the revenge would be there

I don't believe Quinn needs Maya to solve her financial problems, she already has 5/6 girls, one more wouldn't make a difference, so if it happens it will simply be sadism or revenge

 

[chocolatemilkgames]

She won't get to service other men, so anything that happens won't get to that point. That's the thing, why tease something that won't happen?

The game can absolutely still have that happen. It's only NTR if we see it. If they simply find out she's doing it without the player ever seeing it, it still wouldn't be NTR. Not that I'm saying I want that to happen, but we can't rule it out as a possibility.

 

[lemonfreak]

unfortunately in the triangle between Maya, Josy and Mc someone will be screwed

and Maya, by character, is the one who would suffer the most from it.

I add a consideration: it seems that we will tackle the drug problem first, as we get out of it will tell us a lot about what can happen. if Mc will help Quinn then if not out of jealousy (which would point out Quinn's negativity) it becomes difficult to think that Quinn will still attack Maya. but it could also be an opportunity to worsen the relationship between Quinn and MC, in which case the revenge would be there

I don't believe Quinn needs Maya to solve her financial problems, she already has 5/6 girls, one more wouldn't make a difference, so if it happens it will simply be sadism or revenge

A quick google search revealed that, typically, 1 year at a US public college costs $37,430 per year. Multiply that by 4 and it's one hell of an investment Quinn is making in her, hmm, let's call them servers to keep with the restaurant theme. That's a lot of bathroom blowjobs which, looking at that number, makes me doubt the prostitution could ever have paid for the tuition which may indicate that the drug dealing is a more recent addition to Quinn's business that quickly got out of hand.

 

[felicemastronzo]

A quick google search revealed that, typically, 1 year at a US public college costs $37,430 per year. Multiply that by 4 and it's one hell of an investment Quinn is making in her, hmm, let's call them servers to keep with the restaurant theme. That's a lot of bathroom blowjobs which, looking at that number, makes me doubt the prostitution could ever have paid for the tuition which may indicate that the drug dealing is a more recent addition to Quinn's business that quickly got out of hand.

BADIK's economy is deliberately artificial

the tuition is likely to cost in $$$$$ or at most $$$$$$


Seriously, I don't think it's that expensive, otherwise the existence of the free tuition itself wouldn't be credible.

but at the same time Maya probably can't pay for it with the glory hole ..

Quinn, however, is the only one in the world who has financial problems with prostitution and drugs ...

 

[xsssssssss]

A quick google search revealed that, typically, 1 year at a US public college costs $37,430 per year. Multiply that by 4 and it's one hell of an investment Quinn is making in her, hmm, let's call them servers to keep with the restaurant theme. That's a lot of bathroom blowjobs which, looking at that number, makes me doubt the prostitution could ever have paid for the tuition which may indicate that the drug dealing is a more recent addition to Quinn's business that quickly got out of hand.

I don’t see why drugs would be a more recent element. Both could have been in tandem or more likely she had some involvement in drugs from the very get go (due to her background). We don’t really have a proper financial scale(ie what is the threesome in real money), how much Burke is charged per session with an escort. How many sessions the girls have provided last year. My guess is all things combined secured the tuition fees last year either purely by money or money and creative accounting from Burke.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I don’t see why drugs would be a more recent element. Both could have been in tandem or more likely she had some involvement in drugs from the very get go (due to her background). We don’t really have a proper financial scale(ie what is the threesome in real money), how much Burke is charged per session with an escort. How many sessions the girls have provided last year. My guess is all things combined secured the tuition fees last year either purely by money or money and creative accounting from Burke.

there are just speculation, but getting started with prostitution would have been relatively easy, while drugs need start-up capital and contacts, which makes it likely it was a next step in Quinn's business

and since you have to invest money in drugs, economic problems are very likely to come from there

 

[moskyx]

there are just speculation, but getting started with prostitution would have been relatively easy, while drugs need start-up capital and contacts, which makes it likely it was a next step in Quinn's business

and since you have to invest money in drugs, economic problems are very likely to come from there

Well, she do drugs, so she started with a supplier. That's a first connection. Then things can escalate quickly for those who are interested enough, prostitution being a secondary step in order to make some more money. Both ways are possible

 

[felicemastronzo]

Well, she do drugs, so she started with a supplier. That's a first connection. Then things can escalate quickly for those who are interested enough, prostitution being a secondary step in order to make some more money. Both ways are possible

It is certainly possible but I see it less likely anyway.
in the context of HOTs, organizing some "appointments" is really simple

however, I don't see it as such an important aspect as it was the chicken or the egg
are 2 businesses that collectively produce a debt for Quinn

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

your reasoning is missing the fundamental aspect: Maya is not alone, this always makes the difference
if she were isolated for me too it is likely that Quinn would be able to use her as a puppet, but she is not.
and college is such a small environment that nothing happens "covertly"


Well, on this it is likely that Quinn might have had another chance to continue the conversation with May

but at that point Maya, as she always has, would have asked MC or Josy or both for help

so I don't think it happened, but it's not implausible that it could have happened




I don't understand why I should not follow a girl from the game (even separately)

today I don't know what the most interesting and exciting route will be

Maya is not alone at the college, that's true. But we've already seen her make stupid choices (the wake up) even though she already had Derek and the MC.

Maya is also not exactly the most open person, she keeps things from people. And she seems at times to be obsessed with the easy out of a magical scholarship that will solve all of her problems.

Would you follow a girl from the game that you are not attracted to, just because she's in the game? I don't find Bella attractive, quite the opposite I think she's kinda repulsive. I like the character of Jill, I just don't find her sexually attractive. As for Maya, our character has known Maya for what(?) two weeks now? And already Maya has had to ask for forgiveness twice, and this is after demanding 100% honesty to even be allowed into her exalted presence. Then there was that passive/aggressive hissy fit she threw in Gender Studies class. I found that really repulsive. Maya is a walking minefield who's poor choices are going to hurt anyone close to her, so I've just to stay out of the blast radius.

 

[xsssssssss]

there are just speculation, but getting started with prostitution would have been relatively easy, while drugs need start-up capital and contacts, which makes it likely it was a next step in Quinn's business

and since you have to invest money in drugs, economic problems are very likely to come from there

Getting started in drugs if she's from a background with drugs connections would be easier and wouldn't require any recruitment. I doubt you'd need start up capital but rather be given a small amount of product to prove you can move it. Both businesses tend to make money(barring getting caught) which is why i don't think that's the economic problems. There's some new drain on cashflow.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Who says it's not going to happen? Say her father finds out she's staying with Josy, blows up at her, including cutting her off financially, and Quinn witnesses it? Quinn would have to be a pretty lousy pimp to not try to leverage an emotionally desperate Maya at that point. And it could very well work - it certainly has worked on a lot of women in real life. It sets up just the kind of conflict you would expect from the guy who did AL.

Her Dad has already cut her off financially, so there's not much more he can do in that regard and it's the whole reason why she wants to join the HOTs in the first place. He's also shown up once already and basically asked Derek to spy on Maya for him so I don't think we'll be seeing him on campus again any time soon.

Whose heart do you guys think is gonna be the worst to break? My money's on Sage, she seems on paper like the person who would take it the best, but with Chad breaking up with her soon I don't think telling her you can't be together will go to well wit her. For me at least in theory and I don't know if I will change my mind, but I've pretty much narrowed down my choices to Maya or Jill, for reason that I won't ramble on at the moment.

But I was really really just starting to like Sage, in 2028 when this game eventually finishes I'll do a play through with her, but I think I'm on that shitty road of breaking her heart.

I think that, for those players who are pursuing them but ultimately choose someone else, Sage and Jill will be the most heartbroken. Jill is definitely falling hard for the MC and while she knows he's dating others, that's not going to be any kind of comfort to her if he chooses to end things because, right now, he's the best guy she's known and dated so it won't be easy to get over that.

Sage is also getting there too in terms of her feelings, and it depends where there relationship goes from here because if they're still FWB by the time a decision needs to be made, she can certainly be disappointed and even heartbroken, but she would only have herself to blame because she didn't try to lock it down when she had the chance.

But I think the 2 of them will get over it. Jill may end up with Rusty since the game seems to hint that this may happen, and Sage in particular will hopefully have been shown what type of guy she deserves and won't go for guys like Chad anymore.

Also, this game will not take 8 more years to finish. There is, at most, going to be 16 episode and each episode takes around 4 months each, so after ep 6 we'll still have potentially 10 episodes left which is 40 months, meaning it'll probably be around 3 and a half years before it's done, maybe even 4, but certainly not 8.

I agree... to a point.

Maya obviously wouldn't WANT to turn tricks for Quinn, so if the question is ever put to her straight up she will clearly say no. But she has shown that she can rationalize her way into terrible decisions by downplaying the cost and overvaluing the upside, then refusing to re-evaluate as the situation devolves. Her pledge to the HOTs started innocently enough, but it keeps getting worse. Even though she thought about calling it off after it escalated to public and/or group sex, she couldn't actually go through with that.

So as much as I don't like it, I do think Maya could wind up feeling trapped into going along with Quinn's schemes under the right circumstances. But those circumstances are tricky. If you don't isolate Maya from her friends (Derek, Josy and the MC), I don't think she'll feel the despair needed to cross that final threshold. On the other hand if you crush her spirit too thoroughly, I think that rather than join Quinn's band, Maya would instead cave to her father and resolve to become the soulless 'good girl' she was supposed to be all along. (Which, in some ways, might be an even worse fate. Isn't this a pleasant topic?)

So while I agree that Maya is vulnerable to coercion and pressure, I think she's currently in a place where those feelings are still manageable. That could easily change (especially in routes where the MC rejects her and still pursues Josy). In that event, it's even money which way Maya would turn when she breaks.

None of this, of course, should be read as my personal desire; I'm firmly in favor of Maya getting some heavy character growth and patching up her life once and for all. But I definitely worry about what could happen to her.

The thing is though that people do have limits and there's a huge difference between grinding on a guy you've been getting to know for the last couple of days and viewing it as a "prank", and blowing some random guy through a glory hole in a bathroom stall. Some people might give in to that need for money and others won't, no matter how much harder and more difficult the alternative route is.

This is why I feel that we have Mona, because she now knows what's required of her for the tuition and we've seen that Quinn will likely try to sweet talk her in to coming back and doing these things which Mona which likely accept. To me, Mona is going to be like the mirror opposite of Maya, an example of what might have happened if Maya was all by herself, but because she's not by herself she'll grow stronger from having supportive people around her and even if certain things don't work out for her, she won't resort to such depraved things because she's stronger for having had these people with her to guide her on a different path.

Anyway, this whole discussion about whether or not Maya will sink into depravity when the chips are down are probably largely moot as it's likely that Quinn's whole drug and prostitution business will be dismantled before anything that could negatively happen to her that might drive her down this road.

unfortunately in the triangle between Maya, Josy and Mc someone will be screwed

Why? At this stage, it's still entirely possible for it to work out, provided that there are no burning buildings and no dramatic moments that cause an unavoidable break-up despite what choices we make. There's honestly a far greater chance of seeing this throuple survive than there is seeing Maya go down the depraved route for her tuition.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

How the fuck was that a passive aggressive hissy fit? What in the world made you interpret it like that?

They clearly have that backwards because it's the MC who's being passive aggressive, not Maya. She's trying to explain things to him and he's being unreasonable.

 

[Ennoch]

...and there was some guy who memed about how calm in-total-agreement this thread is

 

[felicemastronzo]

Maya is not alone at the college, that's true. But we've already seen her make stupid choices (the wake up) even though she already had Derek and the MC.

Maya is also not exactly the most open person, she keeps things from people. And she seems at times to be obsessed with the easy out of a magical scholarship that will solve all of her problems.

Would you follow a girl from the game that you are not attracted to, just because she's in the game? I don't find Bella attractive, quite the opposite I think she's kinda repulsive. I like the character of Jill, I just don't find her sexually attractive. As for Maya, our character has known Maya for what(?) two weeks now? And already Maya has had to ask for forgiveness twice, and this is after demanding 100% honesty to even be allowed into her exalted presence. Then there was that passive/aggressive hissy fit she threw in Gender Studies class. I found that really repulsive. Maya is a walking minefield who's poor choices are going to hurt anyone close to her, so I've just to stay out of the blast radius.

the grinding was unpleasant and was the low point for Maya
but it was all in all still in the field of student spirit extreme joke (the taser was unknown to her)

right after that episode I doubt he would fall back.

on the other point, that of the different girls in the game: we don't know them, we know Maya and Josy superficially, the others even less.
personally I don't give much weight to the aesthetics which are very variable between renderings. they are all beautiful girls, the journey with them will make the difference. Bella is my favorite aesthetically but it is completely a mystery, if DPC handles her badly I might as well hate her

in Acting Lessons Rena was aesthetically my favorite character, but she was also the least interesting at the end of the day

Why? At this stage, it's still entirely possible for it to work out, provided that there are no burning buildings and no dramatic moments that cause an unavoidable break-up despite what choices we make. There's honestly a far greater chance of seeing this throuple survive than there is seeing Maya go down the depraved route for her tuition.

sorry, I thought it was clear from the speech.

I am referring to the situation in which Mc is initially rejected by the two girls

in the other case I am always convinced that the only one who can be expelled is MC

 

[Deleted member 2739658]

the grinding was unpleasant and was the low point for Maya
but it was all in all still in the field of student spirit extreme joke (the taser was unknown to her)

right after that episode I doubt he would fall back.

on the other point, that of the different girls in the game: we don't know them, we know Maya and Josy superficially, the others even less.
personally I don't give much weight to the aesthetics which are very variable between renderings. they are all beautiful girls, the journey with them will make the difference. Bella is my favorite aesthetically but it is completely a mystery, if DPC handles her badly I might as well hate her

in Acting Lessons Rena was aesthetically my favorite character, but she was also the least interesting at the end of the day

I'm roleplaying my character, and using my own aesthetic taste in choosing who ever I'm attracted to. I don't feel like in a game with choices that you are required to make every choice or pursue every opportunity. I have played all the options with saves, but I'm talking about the main story line I intend to follow through out the game.

 

[legolas62]

Nice game