VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Deleted member 2528490]

ok, there it responds to a request (not very sensible) for more "captions" in certain situations

Yeah, the whole question being asked was basically "is it hard to not narrate scenes" and DPC was like "bitch, I'm good at what I do, why would I do what I'm not good at".

And yeah, its definitely a step down, imo, to narrate stuff instead of the DPC style of "show, not tell". Although some make it work.

 

[shazba]

maybe I didn't quite understand what you mean, but I'm not convinced of this distinction you make.

the writing is not just the dialogues and the grammar. everything is part of the writing, even the plot, the tree of choices and the "choreography"

a game is not a story, but starts from a screenplay as if it were a film or a TV series. and the script is good if its writing is good.

the fact that there are unlikely situations and not very congruent with the path made by the player up to that moment is a writing problem (I give the usual example of Mc who after returning from the threesome with Riona and Quinn feels betrayed by Josy and Maya)

to give other but positive examples: the game of glances is part of the writing of the game, Sage who is about to speak but at last thinks about it is writing too

there is certainly a highly subjective part in the judgment on the way of writing, "I like" or "I don't like" is quite inevitable. but there are also considerations that in my opinion maintain a certain objectivity

You're thinking of writing in the macro, felice. The storytelling. The overall way the story is presented in the final product. DPC's point was about writing in the micro. The actual act of writing. And writing a screenplay is massively different than writing prose. With a script, DPC can just focus on dialogue and plot points in the actual writing. The imagery, emotion, character expressions, action, etc are all taken care of by the visuals, which is where DPC excels.

DPC is saying that he sucks at writing prose, the way you would in a novel. And that his strengths as a writer is in writing scripts and telling the story through a visual medium.

I don't see this distinction in DPC's answer.

if he is worried about his ability to write "only" the dialogues in my opinion he is wrong, and I don't even understand what he would mean when he talks about the fact that it is the least forgivable part of the job

however if DPC is referring to the dialogues, his is false modesty, he has a very modern, simple style, let's say not to Tarantino, but that goes very well with the style of current TV series from Buffy onwards

DPC literally makes that distinction, felice.

" My chosen writing method plays to my strengths, as I see writing as my biggest weakness. Even though I constantly try to improve my writing, I think I lack the skill set needed to write a novel in the way you're describing. "

DPC isn't saying he's a bad writer. He's saying he's bad at writing prose.

ok, there it responds to a request (not very sensible) for more "captions" in certain situations

Yeah, the whole question being asked was basically "is it hard to not narrate scenes" and DPC was like "bitch, I'm good at what I do, why would I do what I'm not good at".

And yeah, its definitely a step down, imo, to narrate stuff instead of the DPC style of "show, not tell". Although some make it work.

I just wrote some big ass answer only to take too long and find you motherfuckers (a term of endearment of course) have already sorted this shit out.

Just to point out the question and answer in context:

Do you feel limited when writing due to your choice of using only monologue and dialog to describe what's happening? For action, you rely completely on the visuals, which becomes especially apparent during sex scenes. Wouldn't you sometimes like to use more detailed text or rich descriptions to go deeper into the scene?

No, I don’t feel limited by that choice of writing style, but, yes, I do miss out on painting the scene further than visuals go. When writing a book, detailed text and rich descriptions are necessary, and I felt that the game being a visual novel, didn’t need that narrative. It removes some of the immersion when a narrator describes a scene's details versus the character saying, thinking, or expressing it through body language.

My chosen writing method plays to my strengths, as I see writing as my biggest weakness. Even though I constantly try to improve my writing, I think I lack the skill set needed to write a novel in the way you're describing.

He's saying he's not good at writing descriptive narrative, like let's say in Lord of the Rings I vaguely recall more than 10 pages were spent describing the forest as the travellers entered it. DPC would have just shown it as a few renders and cut straight to the dialogue.

So my original points was: People who don't like some aspects of the BaDIK story think that DPC has admitted his story is his weakest part, but DPC didn't say that, he says he's not good at writing descriptive narratives like you'd read in a novel, so he doesn't write them.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I just wrote some big ass answer only to take too long and find you motherfuckers (a term of endearment of course) have already sorted this shit out.

Just to point out the question and answer in context:



He's saying he's not good at writing descriptive narrative, like let's say in Lord of the Rings I vaguely recall more than 10 pages were spent describing the forest as the travellers entered it. DPC would have just shown it as a few renders and cut straight to the dialogue.

So my original points was: People who don't like some aspects of the BaDIK story think that DPC has admitted his story is his weakest part, but DPC didn't say that, he says he's not good at writing descriptive narratives like you'd read in a novel, so he doesn't write them.

slooow

 

[Deleted member 2528490]

Sloths are so adorable. They'd give Josy a run for cuteness.

 

[shazba]

Sloths are so adorable. They'd give Josy a run for cuteness.

They look all chill and smiley because they lack expressive facial muscles to look scared shitless...

 

[felicemastronzo]

They look all chill and smiley because they lack expressive facial muscles to look scared shitless...

like Jill...

 

[Deleted member 2528490]

They look all chill and smiley because they lack expressive facial muscles to look scared shitless...

TIL. Interesting defense mechanism. (I assume thats why.)

like Jill...

So THATs why Jill is taking things so slow. She's half-sloth!

 

[wholef'nshow]

Sloths carry thousands of living species that live enjoying the dirt in their hair and that them don't care about. Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed in a sloth's fur, everything is transformed until the moment of inevitable death. Why shouldn't Sloths be smiling? They are the perfect portrait of divinity.

In fact it reminds me of the attitude of a couple of characters in this game. Do you know? Like someone that was in a relationship and who didn't give a damn about destroying the MC's heart by hiding it.

 

[der123fer]

chapter 6 is full of content, you are right. all relationships develop, some very well, others less so.

but it has a problem, it is completely anti-climax.

the mystery of the mother's letter? a legacy that does not warm even the very poor protagonists without TV and a diary in which, for now, nothing important is written.

will Maya be able to convince Quinn that she has completed her list? sure, Quinn won't see anything at all ..

Maya discovers that the free tuition, at least as she intended it, was all a hoax, but we players have known this for some time

what will happen to Rusty and the DIKs for Cathe's photo? nothing, absolutely nothing

then the big news is Tybalt's blackmail to Jill, but even there, Tybalt remains an unbelievable villain and Jill completely ignores the blackmail throughout the chapter until she talks about it with MC

all the suspense of the chapter is relegated to the last minutes, in which the slide show with Maya's father, Mona, Burke, etc. starts.

I understand what you mean, but you don’t always get a super climactic resolution or revelation in an episode (e.g. MJ mystery coming to a surprise climactic resolution after Josy comes to the dorms), and you really shouldn’t too, that would just be one climactic event after another with no ‘breaks’
This is subjective, but for me, Sage breaking up with Chad was ‘big’, it was leading up to this falling out scene for 4+ episodes, and it finally got resolved in 6
I am also pretty sure that some of the storylines could have immediate or medium-term consequences for the nearest future e.g., the HOTs evaluation and its aftermath giving Maya a harsh piece of reality and realization about the HOTs and the ‘free tuition’; Quinn taking up too much on her plate (including the coke she bought) and somewhat starting to lose control of the situation in general, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Deleted member 2528490]

(including the coke she bought)

I'm actually chomping at the bit to see what happens with that. Technically, she came out ahead, since she got paid with extra AND got to keep the 8ball for another potential sale. But the way she hides it just reminds me of Breaking Bad with the ricin. Some dark shit is going to come of it.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I understand what you mean, but you don’t always get a super climactic resolution or revelation in an episode (e.g. MJ mystery coming to a surprise climactic resolution after Josy comes to the dorms), and you really shouldn’t too, that would just be one climactic event after another with no ‘breaks’
This is subjective, but for me, Sage breaking up with Chad was ‘big’, it was leading up to this falling out scene for 4+ episodes, and it finally got resolved in 6
I am also pretty sure that some of the storylines could have immediate or medium-term consequences for the nearest future e.g., the HOTs evaluation and its aftermath giving Maya a harsh piece of reality and realization about the HOTs and the ‘free tuition’; Quinn taking up too much on her plate (including the coke she bought) and somewhat starting to lose control of the situation in general, etc. etc. etc.

you're right, every event doesn't always have to be at the peak of drama

all emotional moments were good (the chat with Maya, the caress with Bella, the three segments with Sage...)

but the question of Mc mother's letter was long awaited (by me but I believe also by others), and has proved to be insignificant at least for now, quite boring...

and Jill's blackmail HAD to be something better, it was the first time she had a completely dedicated event, but it was really limp, so limp that for me it burned even the moment of revelation. I consider that a missed and "badly written" opportunity.

I'll give another example: the final part with Maya also wants to be a dramatically strong moment, but it's not, apart from the "technical" clarifications on the loan, they were all things we already knew. and this inevitably ends up weakening the impact of the scene

there are of course also the completely successful parts like that of Quinn (everything from the initial flashback, to her solo segment, to the trade with Rick to the eventual scene with MC)

 

[felicemastronzo]

I'm actually chomping at the bit to see what happens with that. Technically, she came out ahead, since she got paid with extra AND got to keep the 8ball for another potential sale. But the way she hides it just reminds me of Breaking Bad with the ricin. Some dark shit is going to come of it.

in my opinion it is one of the most interesting points of the chapter.

what will Quinn do with it? will she use it herself (overdose)? Will she use it to get someone in trouble?

opens up many scenarios

 

[Deleted member 2528490]

in my opinion it is one of the most interesting points of the chapter.

what will Quinn do with it? will she use it herself (overdose)? Will she use it to get someone in trouble?

opens up many scenarios

I'm thinking DPC might go with the overdose plot. But I have this feeling he might use Riona for it. She's been so stressed out, even with the weed, I kind of think she's being set up to find the coke somehow, and take it thinking she needs a 'higher' high to deal with the stress. After all, just once can't hurt, right? Just once.

 

[wholef'nshow]

you're right, every event doesn't always have to be at the peak of drama

all emotional moments were good (the chat with Maya, the caress with Bella, the three segments with Sage...)

but the question of Mc mother's letter was long awaited (by me but I believe also by others), and has proved to be insignificant at least for now, quite boring...

and Jill's blackmail HAD to be something better, it was the first time she had a completely dedicated event, but it was really limp, so limp that for me it burned even the moment of revelation. I consider that a missed and "badly written" opportunity.

I'll give another example: the final part with Maya also wants to be a dramatically strong moment, but it's not, apart from the "technical" clarifications on the loan, they were all things we already knew. and this inevitably ends up weakening the impact of the scene

there are of course also the completely successful parts like that of Quinn (everything from the initial flashback, to her solo segment, to the trade with Rick to the eventual scene with MC)

You're right. It seems like this chapter fully reflects his title: "Damage Control".
There are some potentially critic situations, but which to be (precisely) controlled. But this could simply be a narrative gimmick. We come from a series of decidedly more exciting and eventful episodes. This can be seen as a quiet moment in which everything seems to be able to settle in some way, (hell week is over, we finally got a room, we're all busy rearranging the HQ, Cathy's problem is solved, etc) and it's time for us to focus on the sentimental sphere without shitstorms above our head. Perhaps, before another series of events that can again upset the life of our college and the relationships of our protagonist.

 

[wholef'nshow]

I'm thinking DPC might go with the overdose plot. But I have this feeling he might use Riona for it. She's been so stressed out, even with the weed, I kind of think she's being set up to find the coke somehow, and take it thinking she needs a 'higher' high to deal with the stress. After all, just once can't hurt, right? Just once.

OMG now you scared me as hell. Because, thinking about it, it's absolutely possible.

DPC PLEASE DON'T KILL RIONA!!!

 

[ename144]

I think that pretty much nails it.

I still enjoyed playing it, but there were no deeply satisfying scenes.

My favourite scene was meeting up with Nicole at the bar and the aftermath.

I guess for M&J fans the threesome was a big moment.

I can only speak for one M&J fan, but the Episode 6 threesome was not particularly memorable in my view. It was fun, but I'd say it was their least interesting lewd scene to date. Their lesbian scene at the start of the episode was a lot better; even if the MC was not directly involved, it gave us a lot more insight into the two.

It's funny, the Quinn scene played out on my first play through and while I was pleasantly surprised it happened, it didn't hit me as so significant, but after all the talking and analysis on these boards, it's now become a more significant scene to me.

I'm apparently in the minority because I just don't care much about the Quinn scene.

It's good that players who like her can get some actual interaction with her, of course. But since I still don't like her, I find the scene pretty bland. We already knew Quinn had a sensitive side, and we already knew she was into the MC (like everyone else). The most interesting takeaway from her scene in my book was entirely meta, namely the way she rejects any MC who was accepted by Maya. If that's a deliberate insight into the character, it's quite interesting. (If it's just a game balance effect, then I'd say the scene is just one more lewd encounter.)

 

[AchedCroissant]

I can only speak for one M&J fan, but the Episode 6 threesome was not particularly memorable in my view. It was fun, but I'd say it was their least interesting lewd scene to date. Their lesbian scene at the start of the episode was a lot better; even if the MC was not directly involved, it gave us a lot more insight into the two.

I would not consider that as a trheesome since they wanted to complete the list and apart from that I don't think that Maya in that place was not very comfortable

Seeing this preview makes me think that actually here are the 3 celebrating the MC's birthday in a more romantic way possible

That butt need to be spanked

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I can only speak for one M&J fan, but the Episode 6 threesome was not particularly memorable in my view. It was fun, but I'd say it was their least interesting lewd scene to date. Their lesbian scene at the start of the episode was a lot better; even if the MC was not directly involved, it gave us a lot more insight into the two.

Particularly how much Maya is stressing about wanting to know how she can be good for the MC. Her wanting to make a good impression when having sex with him I think shows how much she wants him to like her which, I would say, shows how much she likes him because this is a big deal for her.

I'm apparently in the minority because I just don't care much about the Quinn scene.

It's good that players who like her can get some actual interaction with her, of course. But since I still don't like her, I find the scene pretty bland. We already knew Quinn had a sensitive side, and we already knew she was into the MC (like everyone else). The most interesting takeaway from her scene in my book was entirely meta, namely the way she rejects any MC who was accepted by Maya. If that's a deliberate insight into the character, it's quite interesting. (If it's just a game balance effect, then I'd say the scene is just one more lewd encounter.)

To me, it doesn't feel like it's because she instinctively knows that the MC and Maya are a thing because even for those who have sex with Quinn, she'll tease him the next day about Maya being his "soon-to-be girlfriend", so she's clearly clueless about what's going on. It seems to be entirely based on balancing the lewd scenes, not giving players everything on every path, even when it feels that it doesn't make sense to be denied at least the chance at the scene based on your playthrough.

As was mentioned yesterday by travelman, Quinn seems to like both a CHICK and DIK MC for different reasons, so at the very least she could have accepted a Neutral/CHICK MC's help even if it didn't lead to the lewd scene and that would've been enough, especially if when she leaves she does that doubletake where she wanted to say something but doesn't because I do think, based on my experience and interpretation, that a Neutral/CHICK MC at least has, or should have, a chance at being someone who can still help and be there for Quinn no matter what path you're on.

Seeing this preview makes me think that actually here are the 3 celebrating the MC's birthday in a more romantic way possible
View attachment 1021235
That butt need to be spanked

The 3 of them having a romantic moment in the HOT's pool? I don't think so.

 

[D2M3]

The 3 of them having a romantic moment in the HOT's pool? I don't think so.

It IS hard to forget Jacob's comments about that pool.

OMG now you scared me as hell. Because, thinking about it, it's absolutely possible.

DPC PLEASE DON'T KILL RIONA!!!

It seems right up his alley, and Riona has been made very expendable with that last scene in ep6 she was in.

Plus, killing her just as she's feeling light and happy again, (refer to the lunch scene), would indeed be a very devastating and effective plot move.

 

[Deleted member 2528490]

The 3 of them having a romantic moment in the HOT's pool? I don't think so.

Doesn't have to be the HOT's pool necessarily. Could be a pool elsewhere. Campus pool. Or a club nearby. Josy's being friending it up with Jill, so she could have invited them somewhere.