VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

There are different definitons of antagonist. Most say that antagonist is a character who works against the main character, or protagonist, in some way.
But there also definitisons like this "A character or force against which another character struggles." or this " a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary." or this " a person who is strongly opposed to something or someone"

So by such definition Quinn can be antagonist in relation to Maya, maybe to Sage depending on her further actions, but not to the MC, to whom her most antagonistic action was participation in prank in the 1 chapter where he was going to steal panties from HOT's. But this wasn't even organized by her, but the DIK's, and while you do such things it's kinda expected that you can run into problems.
Did she had the plot armor? Oh yes. She has fucking plot bomb shelter by now. But why it makes her bad character? Her plot armor is that all the characters that can drown her, including MC, suddenly become stupid/silent. But that's a bad writing by DPC (and there are different examples of that through the story). If he makes all the characters unjustifiably stupid and silent, does it make character who benefits from that bad?

in the first part of the story he is also MC's antagonist. everything we are told about her is negative, she has to do with drugs, together with Tommy they conspire against their superiors, she always has a harsh attitude against poor Riona (who is the only one with whom she has an apparently more sincere relationship)...

it's MC who is stunned by the taser, Maya will have been humiliated in the occasion, but MC didn't go well either. apparently Quinn wants to make both of them her toys (with different aims)

then at a certain point Quinn is so busy with her own problems that she stops giving Maya problems too, she "neglects" her completely I'd say from chapter 3 onwards. she goes from wanting to involve her in the restaurant to not caring about her scavenger hunt leaving her free with Arieth

and it's there that her character remains in the balance without a determined role.

when there will be the clash with Sage we will see what will happen, will it be the return of the prodigal son, or will she be fallen into the abyss?

 

[Deleted member 2528490]

I think the entire Lynette thing is being overthought. There has been no mention of her since the prologue. There has been no mention of any of her family, even in passing. One would think there would at least be some reference to her side of the family, even at the funeral, if that was to be part of the story. If something about Lynette's past shows up in this story this far in, out of fuck all nowhere, it's not good writing. I have family I've never met at all but I know their names and can trace their lineage and could contact them if I so desired. The MC hasn't made the slightest effort to do any such thing nor has anyone from Lynette's family made any effort to contact him. It's not as though Neil could prevent that now, even if he was preventing it previously. So, if her family was any kind of royalty in this story they would have knowledge the MC was attending B&R and ways of contacting him. All of this nonsense would take the plot so far off course that it simply doesn't make any sense to include it. The name of the game is "Being A DIK", something Lynette obviously could never have done.

In regards to MC not making the effort to contact his extended family, some people are just like that. Being Indian, I have a huge extended family. I could not tell you a single name or how I'm related to any of them. I don't even know my mother's sisters' children's names. When they have no direct impact or presence in your life... for some people, there's no desire to go find out. Your attention is on the things within your immediaite grasp.

So I don't see that as a bad writing thing.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I think the entire Lynette thing is being overthought. There has been no mention of her since the prologue. There has been no mention of any of her family, even in passing. One would think there would at least be some reference to her side of the family, even at the funeral, if that was to be part of the story. If something about Lynette's past shows up in this story this far in, out of fuck all nowhere, it's not good writing. I have family I've never met at all but I know their names and can trace their lineage and could contact them if I so desired. The MC hasn't made the slightest effort to do any such thing nor has anyone from Lynette's family made any effort to contact him. It's not as though Neil could prevent that now, even if he was preventing it previously. So, if her family was any kind of royalty in this story they would have knowledge the MC was attending B&R and ways of contacting him. All of this nonsense would take the plot so far off course that it simply doesn't make any sense to include it. The name of the game is "Being A DIK", something Lynette obviously could never have done.

I think the mistake is to expect it to be an important and determining aspect of the plot.

it seemed that the letter should reveal who knows what, for now it has been worse useless than the game of D&G.

somewhere there are MC's rich relatives, maybe at some point they will intervene in the story, but i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them. maybe they could be the deus ex machina to save MC if he finds himself in big trouble (financial or legal)

let's imagine he ended up involved in a trial accused of something serious, then journalists would quickly dig into his past and intervening for his emblazoned relatives would become a must.
(this is not a theory, just to give a scenario in which it would make sense for them to intervene).

I repeat, until proven otherwise for me MC knows the name and surname of his mother, as he will also know that of all the other BR students, which have not been revealed to us

 

[Abhishek_tanwar]

Ah, Quinn getting more popular in the main thread yet again, it's been a while
I feel like this thread is going in circles trying to 'study Quinn's character' and her 'villainous intent' every time there is an update coming in a few weeks
View attachment 1123208
If you don't hype Quinn up before the release, no one will, so all I can say to you guys is View attachment 1123207

Gotta love her !

 

[dalli_x]

In regards to MC not making the effort to contact his extended family, some people are just like that. Being Indian, I have a huge extended family. I could not tell you a single name or how I'm related to any of them. I don't even know my mother's sisters' children's names. When they have no direct impact or presence in your life... for some people, there's no desire to go find out. Your attention is on the things within your immediaite grasp.

So I don't see that as a bad writing thing.

I agree.

But someone wants MC to track down his family, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten the diary.
The question is from whom and why at this time?
Because of MC birthday? I don't think so.
Someone definitely knows MC past.

 

[Coinzell]

in the first part of the story he is also MC's antagonist. everything we are told about her is negative, she has to do with drugs, together with Tommy they conspire against their superiors, she always has a harsh attitude against poor Riona (who is the only one with whom she has an apparently more sincere relationship)...

it's MC who is stunned by the taser, Maya will have been humiliated in the occasion, but MC didn't go well either. apparently Quinn wants to make both of them her toys (with different aims)

then at a certain point Quinn is so busy with her own problems that she stops giving Maya problems too, she "neglects" her completely I'd say from chapter 3 onwards. she goes from wanting to involve her in the restaurant to not caring about her scavenger hunt leaving her free with Arieth

and it's there that her character remains in the balance without a determined role.

when there will be the clash with Sage we will see what will happen, will it be the return of the prodigal son, or will she be fallen into the abyss?

Forgot about taser. Remembering first chapters... yeah, you are right, she can be considered MC's antagonist in first two, maybe even three chapters (depending on how much you involved in Maya stuff). But after that not really

 

[shazba]

I think the mistake is to expect it to be an important and determining aspect of the plot.

it seemed that the letter should reveal who knows what, for now it has been worse useless than the game of D&G.

somewhere there are MC's rich relatives, maybe at some point they will intervene in the story, but i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them. maybe they could be the deus ex machina to save MC if he finds himself in big trouble (financial or legal)

let's imagine he ended up involved in a trial accused of something serious, then journalists would quickly dig into his past and intervening for his emblazoned relatives would become a must.
(this is not a theory, just to give a scenario in which it would make sense for them to intervene).

I repeat, until proven otherwise for me MC knows the name and surname of his mother, as he will also know that of all the other BR students, which have not been revealed to us

I agree that just because we don’t know something it doesn’t mean the MC doesn’t, and we could be attributing something important to something that is not.

The obsession some people have with the mc’s ancestry could very well be completely misplaced.

From what we’ve been exposed to in the story, Lynette had no siblings, so there won’t be any surprises.

If it turns out that the MC doesn’t know his mom’s maiden name and it’s something significant to the plot, I’d find that rather idiotic.

Sure, Neil’s story telling ability lacks finesse, which the MC laments did not allow him to build a rapport with his mom’s memory (via his dad), but to not even know her name... I knew my mom’s maiden name before I was around 5...

And while Neil’s story telling isn’t the greatest, the guy hasn’t got dementia, it’s not like he doesn’t even recall important details (like her name).

I’m not going to be adamant that the MC’s ancestry is really no longer of much consequence, my gut feeling is that it isn’t.

 

[drakken]

In general I don't like the way DPC handles the theroic antagonists. As much as I find him great in making the different characters interesting, on the villains of the story I always feel he lacks measure and focus.

Quinn has two problems:
1) the contradiction between being the nemesis, at least of the first part of the story, but continually suffering setbacks, failing at every attempt to achieve something. which makes her more like the Beagle Boys than a serious threat
2) the will to make us feel empathy for her anyway, among the secondary girls she is the one with whom MC can share more important sexual and emotional moments

all these claims on a single character make her generically out of focus, you should fear her, pity her and love her, but all together it's not possible

If Quinn was supposed to be the main villain for S1, then she was the worst villain in the history of worst villains. The problem is DPC established her as a villain, selling drugs and forcing girls to prostitution, but then decided to bank on the popular villain-to-hero trope, by trying to build a sad story for the said villain and possibly add a redemption arc in the future. It worked, but it also forced his hand to change her character and that combined with him making her incompetent by failing at everything, makes her even worse.

Personally, I feel no empathy towards Quinn, everything that happened to her she brought upon herself and only has herself to blame for it.

She is not a villain. Never was. But antagonist come in different forms. And as apparent either you like her, hate her, or both. But u feel something for her.

If Quinn had really been an unscrupulous villain, and had really made Maya do something irreparable, the condemnation towards her would have been without appeal. instead so it's all suspended

Quinn makes the girls prostitute themselves, it's true, but in the end the girls do what they want and with whom they want.

I think that the fact that the syringes have disappeared compared to the first scenes, depends also on the fact that they don't want the issue of drugs to appear too serious, in the end if we talk about joints in college the sentence is not so inflexible, now we'll see what will happen to those unsold doses (where moreover reference is made to a specific drug)

all these contradictions make the character hard to pin down (and overall "wrong") but still interesting, Quinn could really do anything at any time, from the worst crime to the unexpected altruistic gesture

if I had to choose between spending time with Camilla (but the same goes for some LIs) and with Quinn, with the former we all know what to expect, with the latter it would still be a surprise

Quinn makes the girls do nothing, its just part of the deal. They decide if their going to take the deal. What the girls do is their choice. Mona is an example of this.
Maya did what she did of her own free will. She still forgets that even with the deal, it comes down to "if you meet a certain criteria". Did quinn push her buttons yea. But Maya could of backed out at any time and even considered, but instead of listening to her head she jumped headfirst into something she's not willing to do.
As far as pinning down quinn (would be fun) she's not that hard to figure out, complicated? Yes, especially if you go by her facade or mask. But that's just it, you have what she chooses to show and whats inside that she doesn't show(except for mc unintentionally because she can't help herself)

 

[ename144]

Quinn's bizarre obsession with Maya is a good example of why Quinn is the dumbest character in the game.

Quinn has been doubly fortunate so far in that Sage is too busy with her school work to focus on the HOTs, and the HOT code of "Don't turn on each other" is a perfect way for an opportunistic shitbag like Quinn to be shielded from criticism. But even when the stars align to give Quinn every opportunity to succeed, she still manages to ruin everything with her own incompetence.

Maya's slap is bound to raise a few questions that should by all reason make Sage investigate what's going on. Especially with Mona's abrupt departure as well. After all, Sage isn't a complete moron. When she suspects her boyfriend of cheating on her, Sage recruits the main character's help to learn the truth. If she does anything similar with Quinn, the truth would come out in a really big hurry. And in all honesty, it should've come out already.

Quinn is a bad character because other characters are forced to act out of character in order for Quinn's plot line to exist. The best example of this happens when you try to warn Maya about Quinn. There was no logical in-game reason for the MC to refuse to tell Maya why she shouldn't trust Quinn. She even flat out asked you why she shouldn't trust her, but you can't tell her the truth because that would destroy what is the flimsiest plot line in the game.

Quinn's delivery service is a pathetic house of cards that should've toppled ages ago. We could've ratted her out to Sage at any time, or at the very least threatened to do so unless Quinn eased off on Maya. But no, we aren't even allowed to try to do anything to Quinn. She's safely protected from the player by her status as the writer's pet. Maybe we'll get lucky and that will finally end now that the cat is out of the bag, but I'm not overly optimistic about it.

I don't feel that Quinn is a bad character, but I do agree that the plot has been forced into some unfortunate knots to support Quinn's borderline incompetence. I think the game would have benefited from giving us more time to establish her core competencies before allowing circumstances to overwhelm her. As is, it's unclear how she managed to get the restaurant up and running without tipping off everyone around her.

Personally, I still think she inherited her empire from someone else, probably Vinny. That would explain most of the inconsistencies, since Quinn's only had at most a year to drive the business into the ground. But that's speculation on my part. Even if it's true, the game really should do a better job of establishing that rather than relying on us to justify the outlandish situations we see.

There are different definitons of antagonist. Most say that antagonist is a character who works against the main character, or protagonist, in some way.
But there also definitisons like this "A character or force against which another character struggles." or this " a person who is opposed to, struggles against, or competes with another; opponent; adversary." or this " a person who is strongly opposed to something or someone"

So by such definition Quinn can be antagonist in relation to Maya, maybe to Sage depending on her further actions, but not to the MC, to whom her most antagonistic action was participation in prank in the 1 chapter where he was going to steal panties from HOT's. But this wasn't even organized by her, but the DIK's, and while you do such things it's kinda expected that you can run into problems.
Did she had the plot armor? Oh yes. She has fucking plot bomb shelter by now. But why it makes her bad character? Her plot armor is that all the characters that can drown her, including MC, suddenly become stupid/silent. But that's a bad writing by DPC (and there are different examples of that through the story). If he makes all the characters unjustifiably stupid and silent, does it make character who benefits from that bad?

Not entirely, no. And in a comedic work it can be part of the charm. But it certainly undermines their competence, since any victory they achieve comes down to pure author fiat. And in more dramatic works it does weaken immersion, at least in my experience, since I begin to think less in terms of what the character is doing and more in terms of what the author is doing.

 

[dregon87]

How is it possible that I'm on the Maya and Josy path but after the mini-game with manison repairs Bella called me and said that she would come to help with the cleaning?

 

[InfiniteIgnorance]

I agree that just because we don’t know something it doesn’t mean the MC doesn’t, and we could be attributing something important to something that is not.

The obsession some people have with the mc’s ancestry could very well be completely misplaced.

From what we’ve been exposed to in the story, Lynette had no siblings, so there won’t be any surprises.

If it turns out that the MC doesn’t know his mom’s maiden name and it’s something significant to the plot, I’d find that rather idiotic.

Sure, Neil’s story telling ability lacks finesse, which the MC laments did not allow him to build a rapport with his mom’s memory (via his dad), but to not even know her name... I knew my mom’s maiden name before I was around 5...

And while Neil’s story telling isn’t the greatest, the guy hasn’t got dementia, it’s not like he doesn’t even recall important details (like her name).

I’m not going to be adamant that the MC’s ancestry is really no longer of much consequence, my gut feeling is that it isn’t.

I'm pretty sure Neil's memory was made foggy just to avoid having to create a bunch of content that would be irrelevant to the main plot. If he was a walking history book the MC would have a lot of questions. The whole point is for the MC to get to college.

 

[godkingxerxes]

How is it possible that I'm on the Maya and Josy path but after the mini-game with manison repairs Bella called me and said that she would come to help with the cleaning?

Because your also on the Bella path. And since Bella leads to sex, she wins.

 

[Kellermann]

People walking outside a house they live in, is not anything, FFS it's probably just Jakob taking a piss outside because somebody is in the bathroom.

I don't doubt that possibility and you very well may be right. I just keep going back to that third person shot from outside looking in while Bella is doing her thing. It just seemed so odd to include a distance tracking shot like that. Almost all of DPC's sex scenes are up close and personal. This long shot is completely out of the blue. It could be a DIK taking a piss and then looking in when the sex scene caught his attention. But if it were a DIK, he certainly didn't mention it the next morning when the boys were discussing the whether or not Bella had sex with MC and stayed the night. Curious that he would keep that tidbit to himself.

It just seems like DPC was really calling attention to it, much more than the ambiguous outside light flickering. He has a flair for foreshadowing and inconspicuously highlighting things that have importance later on. But yes, various DIKs could be walking around the mansion grounds and that wouldn't be unusual.

 

[dregon87]

Because your also on the Bella path. And since Bella leads to sex, she wins.

This is bad, I have to replay half the game now

 

[Alfred the Fallen]

Quinn could really do anything at any time, from the worst crime to the unexpected altruistic gesture

Nothing would shock me more than Quinn doing something altruistic.

Her fans love to pretend that she's a good person deep down inside who only puts up a tough front, but that's not true. Sure, she's a paper tiger who pretends to be tough and will bully anyone that allows her to, but she isn't a good person. And it's obvious when you compare her to Isabella, who is a good person with a frosty outer shell.

Isabella is notoriously cold, but she will go out of her way to help you, even if she dislikes you personally. So if you're playing a full blown DIK who got thrown out of the library by Isabella for unabashedly flirting with her, she will still take care of you after you've been pushed out into the streets naked by Quinn. Now let's compare that to how Quinn treats her best friend Riona, who she's known for years and who has been nothing but helpful to Quinn.

If we choose to have lunch with Sage and Quinn in the cafeteria, we see Riona arrive in an unusually cheerful manner. Quinn glowers at Riona resentfully and it sucks all of the energy out of Riona. The two of them go back to the sorority house to talk alone about Quinn being mugged the night before, and when Riona says that she's been feeling as if someone has been following her too. Quinn calls her ridiculous and paranoid. Riona asks why she would say that, and Quinn says that it's because Riona is nothing. Riona's advice is ignored (as it was before), and she threatens to quit helping Quinn. Quinn responds by saying that Riona can't do that because she doesn't have the brains to finish college on her own.

This is textbook emotional abuse designed to demoralize Riona and keep her dependent on Quinn. And when you combine it with the physical abuse we saw previously where Quinn struck Riona across the face for contradicting her, we see how Quinn is able to sexually exploit Riona for her own gain. So if Quinn isn't going to show any compassion or concern for her oldest friend, who would she care for? It's not Sage. Quinn isn't helping Sage with the HOTs in order to help Sage, it's to help herself by abusing Sage's trust in order to sell drugs and prostitute the HOTs without Sage's knowledge.

Trying to find examples of Quinn acting in selfless manner isn't an easy task, and it's likely impossible if you haven't spent the entire game being her obedient bootlicker. She has consistently been portrayed as a selfish and callous individual who only cares about herself, and one who enjoys making others miserable. Altruistic gestures would be the last thing I would expect to see from her. It seems that we are just supposed to feel sorry for her, simply because bad things happen to her. I suspect that she will most likely break down crying at some point, and the game will expect us to feel sorry for her and go rushing to her aid. You know, like how we had to act concerned about her when she had a nosebleed.

Back when the main character found Steve crying the in closet, we had the choice to either ask him what's wrong, or to say "Whatever. I'll leave you to sit there and cry in your corner." Quinn has done far more to antagonize the MC than Steve ever did, so why is there not a similar option for Quinn? Because she's the writer's pet and we aren't allowed to be mean to her. Sure, she tasered you in the throat until you passed out, kneed you in the balls when you refused her advances, and tormented one of your closest friends, but you still have to be nice to her because.... well, just because you have to.

 

[godkingxerxes]

This is bad, I have to replay half the game now

If you have a save before the sauna scene in episode 5 if you don't go in there with her, you get a choice to tell her not to come.

Or you can go back to the library scene and not make out with her and be off her path completely.

 

[Coinzell]

Nothing would shock me more than Quinn doing something altruistic.

Her fans love to...

Talking for others thinking that you're understand them while basing only on your thoughts and not actual opinion of such people is a bad idea.

 

[AchedCroissant]

This is bad, I have to replay half the game now

Use the scrappy mod and disable Isabellla's route before she calls you

 

[InfiniteIgnorance]

Nothing would shock me more than Quinn doing something altruistic.

Her fans love to pretend that she's a good person deep down inside who only puts up a tough front, but that's not true. Sure, she's a paper tiger who pretends to be tough and will bully anyone that allows her to, but she isn't a good person. And it's obvious when you compare her to Isabella, who is a good person with a frosty outer shell.

Isabella is notoriously cold, but she will go out of her way to help you, even if she dislikes you personally. So if you're playing a full blown DIK who got thrown out of the library by Isabella for unabashedly flirting with her, she will still take care of you after you've been pushed out into the streets naked by Quinn. Now let's compare that to how Quinn treats her best friend Riona, who she's known for years and who has been nothing but helpful to Quinn.

If we choose to have lunch with Sage and Quinn in the cafeteria, we see Riona arrive in an unusually cheerful manner. Quinn glowers at Riona resentfully and it sucks all of the energy out of Riona. The two of them go back to the sorority house to talk alone about Quinn being mugged the night before, and when Riona says that she's been feeling as if someone has been following her too. Quinn calls her ridiculous and paranoid. Riona asks why she would say that, and Quinn says that it's because Riona is nothing. Riona's advice is ignored (as it was before), and she threatens to quit helping Quinn. Quinn responds by saying that Riona can't do that because she doesn't have the brains to finish college on her own.

This is textbook emotional abuse designed to demoralize Riona and keep her dependent on Quinn. And when you combine it with the physical abuse we saw previously where Quinn struck Riona across the face for contradicting her, we see how Quinn is able to sexually exploit Riona for her own gain. So if Quinn isn't going to show any compassion or concern for her oldest friend, who would she care for? It's not Sage. Quinn isn't helping Sage with the HOTs in order to help Sage, it's to help herself by abusing Sage's trust in order to sell drugs and prostitute the HOTs without Sage's knowledge.

Trying to find examples of Quinn acting in selfless manner isn't an easy task, and it's likely impossible if you haven't spent the entire game being her obedient bootlicker. She has consistently been portrayed as a selfish and callous individual who only cares about herself, and one who enjoys making others miserable. Altruistic gestures would be the last thing I would expect to see from her. It seems that we are just supposed to feel sorry for her, simply because bad things happen to her. I suspect that she will most likely break down crying at some point, and the game will expect us to feel sorry for her and go rushing to her aid. You know, like how we had to act concerned about her when she had a nosebleed.

Back when the main character found Steve crying the in closet, we had the choice to either ask him what's wrong, or to say "Whatever. I'll leave you to sit there and cry in your corner." Quinn has done far more to antagonize the MC than Steve ever did, so why is there not a similar option for Quinn? Because she's the writer's pet and we aren't allowed to be mean to her. Sure, she tasered you in the throat until you passed out, kneed you in the balls when you refused her advances, and tormented one of your closest friends, but you still have to be nice to her because.... well, just because you have to.

So, you're saying there's a chance?

Everything you said is true but all of that is about the HOTS, not the DIKS. So, the only reason it would matter is because the MC cares about one of the HOTS. Quinn isn't paying his tuition. She has no pull with B&R. And instant karma is probably going to get her sooner or later.

 

[dregon87]

If you have a save before the sauna scene in episode 5 if you don't go in there with her, you get a choice to tell her not to come.

Or you can go back to the library scene and not make out with her and be off her path completely.

You saved my time! I just have a save before the sauna, thank you very much