Nah. We cleaned the house. We painted the fence. We watered the plants. It's all euphemisms. The only work that remains is to constantly paint over Bella's pink walls with white.Nahh, bro. Isabella's next freeroam is all about cleaning her whole house.
For real. What is Jill's secret/endgame ?
Jill doesn't have a secret endgame, other than making the MC her subservient object of affection. Everything she has done so far makes it look like she'll be the domineering one in the relationship, except in the bedroom (so far). What you want or like doesn't matter unless it's what she wants/likes. The only person important to Jill is Jill. (and maybe Bella)
That is a mystery. I personally think it's just most of her absent husband's possessions. She couldn't stand seeing all the constant reminders of him around the house so she packed it away into a room.
As demonstrated, Jill is a sleep-humper. She only got the MC's hand (or not at all, if he was wearing the helmet and had a defense). Bella does not wear a penis helmet, ergo she was victimized. Maybe they were both fairly tired and things got a bit out of hand (not a pun) between them before Bella put a stop to things. This would readily explain why Jill had offered to sleep on the couch, because sharing a bed with Bella in the past lead to misbehaving.
Sadly that does seem to be the case. She used to be my go-to in this one but the more I saw of the whole situation the more I was put off by it. It's Josy for the win now. Even with the extra baggage I still think she loves the MC the most.
I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.
), unless Jill has a strap-on under her bed ), let me rephrase that, they respect each other's boundaries. They both put in somewhat equal effort into the relationship. They do care about each other. It's not just about sex. They each make time for each other.
There is no denying that she is kind, almost to much for her own good a times. But on the other hand I can't help but think she is also incredibly selfish as well. She doesn't have to make a big scene, she is still secretly shutting the other person out. It's worse if you ask me because the MC thinks everything is fine. As for the picnic being pivotal sure, but she just springs it on the MC and expects him to just go with her. If you don't she basically says "Fuck it. It's not meant to be so why try at all?".I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.
Sure we love to hate on her face, and she's stubborn when she wants to help (like my mother-in-law who won't take no for an answer when she's offered you something, "No, I don't want another cup of team, I've had 5 already, I'm not being polite, I just don't want another fucking cup!")... ahem... anyway, I think she comes across as a typically kind person, a little simple, but definitely kind.
I've ranted about the way she dumps the mc before (that she actually dumps him is fine, just doing it in public the way she does is a insensitive, but she'd finally stood up to Tybalt and wasn't particularly in her usual frame of mind), but while the catalyst that sends us down that path of rejection is not going on the picnic, the picnic was a pivotal moment in her story.
At the picnic, other than just more one-on-one bonding between the two, Jill gets to air the situation about Tybalt's blackmail, and the mc get to respond, passionately: There's the rain, the making out, the jug-fondling... it was all very seminal.
If you miss the picnic, Jill just tells the mc in the halls of the college, it's all rather sterile, and their relationship doesn't progress. That then snowballs into other events not happening (the morning run, the date with friends, the hot sex...)
It's actually OK that she decided to back out.
But if you look at her track record, she does care about others:
I'm not sure where the idea that she's domineering comes from:
- When they first meet, she helps him up seeing he was the victim of bullying.
- We know she's working on a campaign to help people (don't know if it's about bullying or drugs or something like that, but it's obviously meant to help)
- She's friendly and offers to show Josy around when she finds out she missed orientation
- She is genuinely concerned for the mc when he's beat up by Chad, that's why she keeps suggesting the hospital (sure she doesn't get that not everyone can afford hospital fees)
- She tries only to speak kindly to people, and give them the benefit of the doubt (hence why it take her so long to tell Tybalt to fuck off)
- She only has good intentions when she sets up the meet with the counsellors after the Chad fight. Sure if she checked with the mc first he would have explained it wasn't a good idea, except it actually was a good idea. The Alphas have to leave him alone, and if he asks for leniency on Chad, it clears the air on those two. And even if that ultimately lead to their mansion being trashed, the DIKs have only grown because of it.
- She organised a lovely impromptu picnic for him on his birthday - sure we all hate that picnic, but for unrelated reasons.
- She feels genuine sadness for the mc when she hears the bittersweet story of his birthday.
- She was aware of his potential discomfort when meeting her friends and she did what she could to help.
- She's really concerned for Cathy after the Cathy Cluck event.
So to say she wants a subservient guy doesn't ring true to me.
- She finally had enough at the restaurant and blew up, but that's about the only time we've seen her like that.
- She is stubborn about the hospital because she thinks it's serious that the mc is woozy after being hit. But she backs down and respects the mc's wishes in the end.
- She was the one to plan the tennis date, but it was the mc that asked to go out with her in the first place.
- She did organise the meeting with the counsellors, but bullying is something she takes very seriously
- It was the mc's own determination that had him climbing her balcony to play music for her
- Same as it was the mc climbing her balcony to make out with her the night of Jill's solo performance (and I'm not talking about the piano solo
- On a number of occasions the mc initiated making out with her. The first time she initiated a kiss (other than the good night cheek peck) was on Bella's couch, but it was the mc that turned it into something more.
- She did stop his advances from going too far, and she has every right to. That'll be less likely now.
- She is quite introspective and possibly even suffers low self esteem, even when stopping the mc's advances she second guesses herself.
- She did organise the picnic, but when the mc turned her down, she didn't make a scene or make him feel guilty. She amicably accepted it. And while it was the catalyst to end their relationship, it's not like she thought, "You turned me down?! You're dumped!" Shit just turned out that way. Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
- When it came to sex, she initiated it, but only because it was clear to her that the mc had already initiated it ages ago, he was just waiting for her to be ready, but once it began, he drove the whole thing.
- She's upset (not mad) as she starts to feel jealousy when the truth about the mc's philandering hits her.
- She graciously wins or loses the tennis games. While she plays hard, it's not about the winning for her.
I actually think their relationship is quite healthy. Each has their own boundaries (ok, let's be realistic, the mc has no fucking boundaries whatsoever
To me, she is a very beautiful girl, with a fantastic body and a kind, gentle personality, who has a fucked up smile and is very protective of her friends, who is a little naïve when it comes to guys and relationships.
That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!
I guess you played the game then...I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.
Sure we love to hate on her face, and she's stubborn when she wants to help (like my mother-in-law who won't take no for an answer when she's offered you something, "No, I don't want another cup of team, I've had 5 already, I'm not being polite, I just don't want another fucking cup!")... ahem... anyway, I think she comes across as a typically kind person, a little simple, but definitely kind.
I've ranted about the way she dumps the mc before (that she actually dumps him is fine, just doing it in public the way she does is insensitive, but she'd finally stood up to Tybalt and wasn't particularly in her usual frame of mind), but while the catalyst that sends us down that path of rejection is not going on the picnic, the picnic was a pivotal moment in her story.
At the picnic, other than just more one-on-one bonding between the two, Jill gets to air the situation about Tybalt's blackmail, and the mc get to respond, passionately: There's the rain, the making out, the jug-fondling... it was all very significant.
If you miss the picnic, Jill just tells the mc in the halls of the college, it's all rather sterile, and their relationship doesn't progress. That then snowballs into other events not happening (the morning run, the date with friends, the hot sex...)
It's actually OK that she decided to back out.
But if you look at her track record, she does care about others:
I'm not sure where the idea that she's domineering comes from:
- When they first meet, she helps him up seeing he was the victim of bullying.
- We know she's working on a campaign to help people (don't know if it's about bullying or drugs or something like that, but it's obviously meant to help)
- She's friendly and offers to show Josy around when she finds out she missed orientation
- She is genuinely concerned for the mc when he's beat up by Chad, that's why she keeps suggesting the hospital (sure she doesn't get that not everyone can afford hospital fees)
- She tries only to speak kindly to people, and give them the benefit of the doubt (hence why it take her so long to tell Tybalt to fuck off)
- She only has good intentions when she sets up the meet with the counsellors after the Chad fight. Sure if she checked with the mc first he would have explained it wasn't a good idea, except it actually was a good idea. The Alphas have to leave him alone, and if he asks for leniency on Chad, it clears the air on those two. And even if that ultimately lead to their mansion being trashed, the DIKs have only grown because of it.
- She organised a lovely impromptu picnic for him on his birthday - sure we all hate that picnic, but for unrelated reasons.
- She feels genuine sadness for the mc when she hears the bittersweet story of his birthday.
- She was aware of his potential discomfort when meeting her friends and she did what she could to help.
- She's really concerned for Cathy after the Cathy Cluck event.
So to say she wants a subservient guy doesn't ring true to me.
- She finally had enough at the restaurant and blew up, but that's about the only time we've seen her like that.
- She is stubborn about the hospital because she thinks it's serious that the mc is woozy after being hit. But she backs down and respects the mc's wishes in the end.
- She was the one to plan the tennis date, but it was the mc that asked to go out with her in the first place.
- She did organise the meeting with the counsellors, but bullying is something she takes very seriously
- It was the mc's own determination that had him climbing her balcony to play music for her
- Same as it was the mc climbing her balcony to make out with her the night of Jill's solo performance (and I'm not talking about the piano solo
- On a number of occasions the mc initiated making out with her. The first time she initiated a kiss (other than the good night cheek peck) was on Bella's couch, but it was the mc that turned it into something more.
- She did stop his advances from going too far, and she has every right to. That'll be less likely now.
- She is quite introspective and possibly even suffers low self esteem, even when stopping the mc's advances she second guesses herself.
- She did organise the picnic, but when the mc turned her down, she didn't make a scene or make him feel guilty. She amicably accepted it. And while it was the catalyst to end their relationship, it's not like she thought, "You turned me down?! You're dumped!" Shit just turned out that way. Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
- When it came to sex, she initiated it, but only because it was clear to her that the mc had already initiated it ages ago, he was just waiting for her to be ready, but once it began, he drove the whole thing.
- She's upset (not mad) as she starts to feel jealousy when the truth about the mc's philandering hits her.
- She graciously wins or loses the tennis games. While she plays hard, it's not about the winning for her.
I actually think their relationship is quite healthy. Each has their own boundaries (ok, let's be realistic, the mc has no fucking boundaries whatsoever
To me, she is a very beautiful girl, with a fantastic body and a kind, gentle personality, who has a fucked up smile and is very protective of her friends, who is a little naïve when it comes to guys and relationships.
That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!
AND you were paying attention... Sadly this all will be just a memory in a few hours and the whole bullshit starts again 
(Give or take 12 months or so.)
This. All of this.I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.
Sure we love to hate on her face, and she's stubborn when she wants to help (like my mother-in-law who won't take no for an answer when she's offered you something, "No, I don't want another cup of team, I've had 5 already, I'm not being polite, I just don't want another fucking cup!")... ahem... anyway, I think she comes across as a typically kind person, a little simple, but definitely kind.
I've ranted about the way she dumps the mc before (that she actually dumps him is fine, just doing it in public the way she does is insensitive, but she'd finally stood up to Tybalt and wasn't particularly in her usual frame of mind), but while the catalyst that sends us down that path of rejection is not going on the picnic, the picnic was a pivotal moment in her story.
At the picnic, other than just more one-on-one bonding between the two, Jill gets to air the situation about Tybalt's blackmail, and the mc get to respond, passionately: There's the rain, the making out, the jug-fondling... it was all very significant.
If you miss the picnic, Jill just tells the mc in the halls of the college, it's all rather sterile, and their relationship doesn't progress. That then snowballs into other events not happening (the morning run, the date with friends, the hot sex...)
It's actually OK that she decided to back out.
But if you look at her track record, she does care about others:
I'm not sure where the idea that she's domineering comes from:
- When they first meet, she helps him up seeing he was the victim of bullying.
- We know she's working on a campaign to help people (don't know if it's about bullying or drugs or something like that, but it's obviously meant to help)
- She's friendly and offers to show Josy around when she finds out she missed orientation
- She is genuinely concerned for the mc when he's beat up by Chad, that's why she keeps suggesting the hospital (sure she doesn't get that not everyone can afford hospital fees)
- She tries only to speak kindly to people, and give them the benefit of the doubt (hence why it take her so long to tell Tybalt to fuck off)
- She only has good intentions when she sets up the meet with the counsellors after the Chad fight. Sure if she checked with the mc first he would have explained it wasn't a good idea, except it actually was a good idea. The Alphas have to leave him alone, and if he asks for leniency on Chad, it clears the air on those two. And even if that ultimately lead to their mansion being trashed, the DIKs have only grown because of it.
- She organised a lovely impromptu picnic for him on his birthday - sure we all hate that picnic, but for unrelated reasons.
- She feels genuine sadness for the mc when she hears the bittersweet story of his birthday.
- She was aware of his potential discomfort when meeting her friends and she did what she could to help.
- She's really concerned for Cathy after the Cathy Cluck event.
So to say she wants a subservient guy doesn't ring true to me.
- She finally had enough at the restaurant and blew up, but that's about the only time we've seen her like that.
- She is stubborn about the hospital because she thinks it's serious that the mc is woozy after being hit. But she backs down and respects the mc's wishes in the end.
- She was the one to plan the tennis date, but it was the mc that asked to go out with her in the first place.
- She did organise the meeting with the counsellors, but bullying is something she takes very seriously
- It was the mc's own determination that had him climbing her balcony to play music for her
- Same as it was the mc climbing her balcony to make out with her the night of Jill's solo performance (and I'm not talking about the piano solo
- On a number of occasions the mc initiated making out with her. The first time she initiated a kiss (other than the good night cheek peck) was on Bella's couch, but it was the mc that turned it into something more.
- She did stop his advances from going too far, and she has every right to. That'll be less likely now.
- She is quite introspective and possibly even suffers low self esteem, even when stopping the mc's advances she second guesses herself.
- She did organise the picnic, but when the mc turned her down, she didn't make a scene or make him feel guilty. She amicably accepted it. And while it was the catalyst to end their relationship, it's not like she thought, "You turned me down?! You're dumped!" Shit just turned out that way. Sometimes that's just how the cookie crumbles.
- When it came to sex, she initiated it, but only because it was clear to her that the mc had already initiated it ages ago, he was just waiting for her to be ready, but once it began, he drove the whole thing.
- She's upset (not mad) as she starts to feel jealousy when the truth about the mc's philandering hits her.
- She graciously wins or loses the tennis games. While she plays hard, it's not about the winning for her.
I actually think their relationship is quite healthy. Each has their own boundaries (ok, let's be realistic, the mc has no fucking boundaries whatsoever
To me, she is a very beautiful girl, with a fantastic body and a kind, gentle personality, who has a fucked up smile and is very protective of her friends, who is a little naïve when it comes to guys and relationships.
That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!
I can't remember her exact thoughts if you turn her down, and it is something like, "maybe this is meant to be" or some shit like that, but it's not like she was thinking, "cunt turned me down once, he's fucking done!".
That was a long comment your wrote. Well thought out though.I don't think DPC intended for her to be interpreted as such.
Sure we love to hate on her face.......
.......That's not to say that she wouldn't drive you crazy with all her destiny shit, and stubborn do-gooders can be a pain in the ass!
I agree that the picnic was a pivotal moment for the Jill path and as such must be required to progress. But that's a purely Doylist explanation. The Watsonian argument - that Jill's passion for the MC waned when she didn't see him thanks to Tybalt's ultimatum - is both unsatisfying and, IMHO, unsupported by what we actually see in game.
My last post, the one immediately above your, answers the typical misconception that Jill dumped the mc because he didn't go on the date.
I don't think we really need robust, indisputable drive as to why a female character behaves a certain way. You sure as shit don't get that in the real world!
First, your argument is ignoring the whole "unsatisfying" half of my complaint. If Jill is hurt when the MC has to turn her down, all the more reason we should be able to fight for her immediately. We shouldn't need to be a bad friend to Sage to advance Jill's path. Game mechanics are more satisfying if they're well integrated into the game world.I don't think we really need robust, indisputable drive as to why a female character behaves a certain way. You sure as shit don't get that in the real world!
Jill is a "human" character, like so many of the others. With character flaws and not a robotic personality. To complain that she breaks out of character (the mc being a "Chick" guy and looking after a sick friend should be encouraged by Jill) is to paint her as two dimensional. She's not just a "Chick mc" loving girl. She's also superstitious, she's also naïve, she's also confused.
She's allowed to have confused feelings. When the mc turns her down and doesn't make alternative arrangements, she's allowed to feel down (sure the mc could have made alternative arrangements, he could have also dropped in to see Sage after the date too, but that shit didn't happen).
Any girl who makes you an impromptu picnic and get turned down at your doorstep is gonna feel dejected, no matter what your excuse is. People's feelings override their intelligence a lot. That doesn't mean she hates the mc, but it was the difference between wanting to take the step and invite him to meet her friends or not.
Really, when it comes down to what happened with Jill and the picnic, it's a matter of accepting, "Shit happens". And if you can't, then you're behaving the exact same way that you're criticising Jill for behaving.
Really, when it comes down to what happened with Jill and the picnic, it's a matter of accepting, "Shit happens". And if you can't, then you're behaving the exact same way that you're criticising Jill for behaving.
When it comes to satisfying, there was only one truly satisfying moment in the game:First, your argument is ignoring the whole "unsatisfying" half of my complaint. If Jill is hurt when the MC has to turn her down, all the more reason we should be able to fight for her immediately. We shouldn't need to be a bad friend to Sage to advance Jill's path. Game mechanics are more satisfying if they're well integrated into the game world.
Second, I'm still going to have to disagree. People can indeed be confusing and temperamental, but there are limits. DPC had 6 episodes to establish that Jill was flighty and/or superstitious. Somehow, those particular traits never came up until we needed a retroactive justification for DPC's heavy-handed fork.
