Dec 29, 2018
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2,675
Quinn hasn’t been “terribly written”, it’s clear she has a lot of fans, we all have different interests in this game, and she appeals to a lot of people, and she repels a lot of people. That’s by design.
Popularity isn't always a sign of quality. There's tons of popular movies, shows, games, and songs that are garbage.

And my dislike of Quinn is not by design, or at least not all of it. I hate Tybalt, Dawe, and other characters for the reasons that you are meant to hate them. But I hate Quinn for two reasons. First is for the intended reasons, which is that she treats you and your friends like shit. But the second is because she's unnaturally protected by the writer from any type of attempts at retaliation or obstruction.

If you’re looking for the criminal mastermind
I'm not. I'm totally fine with people being flawed. I am not here complaining about Tybalt being an ineffectual buffoon because the game treats him as an ineffectual buffoon. It's the inconsistency of the characters in the story that I hate.

I've recently been re-watching the TV series The Wire, and it's a very good show that is packed full of deeply flawed characters. Borderline alcoholics, womanizers, sycophantic ladder climbers, guys who bend the rules to take short cuts that backfire. All of them are all sorts of messed up. But the story works because their actions make sense and fit well into the overall story. Both sides give the other a run for their money, and that makes for compelling viewing.

Quinn's closest analogue would probably be Ziggy from season two. He gets special treatment for being the union president's son, and Quinn gets special treatment for being the sorority president's daughter (so to speak). He is a constant screw up who, on the rare occasion when he does something well, gets screwed over by someone else (a bit like Quinn getting jumped when she finds a way to pay down her debts). They are both deeply insecure characters who act out in order to feel like big shots, and that generally backfires on them. But the big difference for me is that people treat Ziggy in a believable manner, and but we don't get that with Quinn. And by that I mean that we as the player character are unreasonably (and inexplicably) restricted with how we can respond to her.

When you're making a game that allows the players to choose how the player character acts to different situations, you have to make reasonable allowances for the future implications of those scenes. We have no reason not to tell Maya the full truth about Quinn, and every reason to do so, yet are forced into that awkward scene where he says she's evil but won't explain why. We see how much Sage hates being lied to and deceived by Chad, so we know how much it's going to hurt when she eventually learns about Quinn, but we are forced to just let her blindly walk into that one. We know that Maya is desperate to get into the HOTs, and we know that Quinn is opposing her and tormenting her at every possibility, but we are severely limited in what we can do to help.

When we see that jerk from the store crying in the closet, we can walk away. When we see Quinn with a bloody nose, we have to rush to her aid (and only walk away once she demands it). The things that Tybalt does to Jill pale in comparison to the things that Quinn does to Maya, and yet we can do unreasonably horrible things to Tybalt and nothing at all to Quinn. Simply telling Maya and Sage about what little you know about Quinn is the absolute bare minimum you could do as a friend, but you can't do it because she's the writer's pet. There's no logical in game reason for your character to keep quiet on a path where you've rejected Quinn at every opportunity and also been nice to Maya and Sage at every opportunity. That makes Quinn horribly written. It's a consistent ongoing problem, and not some one off oddity where the writer accidentally painted himself into a corner.

The only thing DPC needs to do is throw an occasional bone to players who hate Quinn, but he can't seem to bring himself to do that. The most recent example is the scene where you are party planning with Sage and Quinn. What's the worst thing you can say there? You can say "no I don't want that" when Quinn asks if you want a threesome with her and Sage, and you can very lightly tease Quinn about her having competition for your affections (which seems to be flirting with her rather than any sort of mean-spirited teasing). It's super lame. You're never allowed to give her even the slightest taste of her own medicine. Instead, you have to then agree to wear a blindfold and agree to let them do things to you.

All that needed to happen in that scene was to give us the chance to refuse to play with Quinn and mention something she's done as a reason why. Then you could've had Sage make a short speech about how she wants the two of you to get along and play nice. But we don't get that, and it's so strange. I don't even know if Sage knows about the taser incident or not. We see her chastise Quinn about her treatment of Maya, where she says that there is a difference between hazing and bullying, but we don't see her mention any specifics. The taser would be a pretty good example to use there wouldn't it? Which leaves me wondering if this is another white-washing of Quinn to give her more mass appeal (like the absence of needles since the opening scene of Ep2).

Sage had previously asked me if I liked Quinn, and I had replied with a very hard no. So why is my latest no an even weaker no when I have more reasons to hate Quinn than I did before? If it's to keep Sage happy, then you have to set that up. Have her give us an ultimatum that she won't bang us if we're mean to her friends or something like that. She didn't like us telling Quinn to eat shit, so build on that a bit. Follow through with the foundation you've already set. Don't just have them all act buddy buddy for no reason. It's like when the MC suddenly demands that Sage treat him like a boyfriend and not a fuck buddy like they previously agreed. That was probably meant to be a result of how the situation reminded him of how he lost Zoey because he didn't tell her how he felt, but it's not set up properly because Zoey was hardly mentioned outside of the time we told Bella about her, which ended with us saying that we were never truly in love with Zoey.
 

AchedCroissant

Conversation Conqueror
May 29, 2020
6,119
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I saw it a little differently.

The common misconception that Zoey walked away from the mc to chase her dreams often clouds a lot of impressions of her.

If anything, Zoey took the mc for granted, and while she hoped he would travel with her to San Diego, when he decided to stay Zoey believed it was only temporary, she totally believed he was going to come and join her later on. She definitely saw the mc as part of her life long term, even if she wasn’t thinking romantically.

From her perspective, they were best friends but he started distancing himself from her. From his perspective, when she left he realised they were more than best friends, and it hurt that she left. The mc started to sulk a bit, sending terse, uninterested messages, Zoey doesn't get it why he was acting that way.

Then Bret helps her realise the mc thought of their relationship as more than just best friends, and then he gave her the shit advice of distancing herself from him. So they kinda drifted apart. Him sulking, and her thinking that avoiding him would be for the best.

It's only been several months, so it's not like irreparable damage has been done, and when they meet up, they can talk it out and understand how each other feel. They'll fuck, and then we can start making decisions, just be friends with Zoey, be fuck buddies with Zoey, or ditch all the other LIs and ride the blue-haired babe off into the sunset. :love:

DPC has set this up that the mc is hurt by Zoey's actions and Zoey didn't mean to hurt him. It won't take long before they patch things up. But what he's done with the Interlude is put Zoey front and centre in people's minds. We know Zoey's
I read it all :cool:
 

Meushi

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2017
1,146
12,752
I'm listing all the possible choices during the crossroads calculation in episode 8 (when the player has to select a path) but I'm lost in the intricacies of DrPinkCake's code.

Theoretically, there is a line for the outcome "Sage" + "Jill" + "Others"; but in practice it never executes because another set of conditions takes precedence and results in "Sage" + "Others".

I would be grateful to those who are familiar with the code to confirm this point. It could be a bug because the outcomes "Jill" + "Others" and "Jill" exist independently of each other. Thanks!
Yes, the Jill or Sage or Others choice is unattainable, you'd always get the Sage or Others choice first. Checked 0.8.2 & 0.8.3 (the choice logic is the same).

I've also confirmed this in game via console-fu, when meeting the conditions for the Jill or Sage or Others choice you get the Sage or Others choice instead.
 
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Casiope

Member
Nov 30, 2017
199
755
Yes, the Jill or Sage or Others choice is unattainable, you'd always get the Sage or Others choice first. Checked 0.8.2 & 0.8.3 (the choice logic is the same).

I've also confirmed this via console-fu, when meeting the conditions for the Jill or Sage or Others choice you get the Sage or Others choice instead.
Thanks for having double-checked; I'm sure it's a bug, given the way the code uses a specific condition. If it doesn't change anything about the possible relationship with Jill (since she would have declined the main character's proposal at the restaurant), it deprives the player of that extra scene.
 
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Ottoeight

Forum Fanatic
Mar 13, 2021
5,329
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And my dislike of Quinn is not by design, or at least not all of it. I hate Tybalt, Dawe, and other characters for the reasons that you are meant to hate them. But I hate Quinn for two reasons. First is for the intended reasons, which is that she treats you and your friends like shit. But the second is because she's unnaturally protected by the writer from any type of attempts at retaliation or obstruction.
Nobody hates Tybalt and Dawe. Nobody hates a retard.

Regarding Quinn: I guess nothing really bad has happened to her (a knife in her stomach, a bullet, jail and so on) yet because BaDIK is fiction.
 

Ottoeight

Forum Fanatic
Mar 13, 2021
5,329
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Yes, the Jill or Sage or Others choice is unattainable, you'd always get the Sage or Others choice first. Checked 0.8.2 & 0.8.3 (the choice logic is the same).

I've also confirmed this via console-fu, when meeting the conditions for the Jill or Sage or Others choice you get the Sage or Others choice instead.
Thanks for having double-checked; I'm sure it's a bug, given the way the code uses a specific condition. If it doesn't change anything about the possible relationship with Jill (since she would have declined the main character's proposal at the restaurant), it deprives the player of that extra scene.
The Official Walkthrough tells that you can't get "others" if you get "Jill" or "Josy & Maya":

"The choices you can pick between, depending on your history with the girls, are:

Josy & Maya: You have to be in their relationship to be able to choose this.
Isabella: You have to be dating her to be able to choose this.
Sage: You have to be her fuck buddy or fucked her in episode 7 to be able to choose this.
Jill: If you were invited to dinner with her friends, this will be an option. It may also be an option in other rare cases, but if you didn’t get invited to dinner, she will reject you if you choose to be with her.

Others: This option is only available if you aren’t in Josy’s and Maya’s relationship and don’t have a successful relationship with Jill. Choosing that none of the other girls are right for you will cause you to reject any main girl relationships and stay friends with them."

(pp. 119-120)

"Jill" and/or "Josy & Maya" = NO "others".
 

myukimo

Member
Nov 18, 2021
346
300
The Official Walkthrough tells that you can't get "others" if you get "Jill" or "Josy & Maya":

"The choices you can pick between, depending on your history with the girls, are:

Josy & Maya: You have to be in their relationship to be able to choose this.
Isabella: You have to be dating her to be able to choose this.
Sage: You have to be her fuck buddy or fucked her in episode 7 to be able to choose this.
Jill: If you were invited to dinner with her friends, this will be an option. It may also be an option in other rare cases, but if you didn’t get invited to dinner, she will reject you if you choose to be with her.

Others: This option is only available if you aren’t in Josy’s and Maya’s relationship and don’t have a successful relationship with Jill. Choosing that none of the other girls are right for you will cause you to reject any main girl relationships and stay friends with them."

(pp. 119-120)

"Jill" and/or "Josy & Maya" = NO "others".
For others you have to be Dik yes or yes and if you want to be Chik with others you don't have to have a relationship with anyone but this is an achievement that few have managed to be faithful to Zoey :unsure: :ROFLMAO:
 

skc0110

Member
Nov 18, 2021
101
188
I'm listing all the possible choices during the crossroads calculation in episode 8 (when the player has to select a path) but I'm lost in the intricacies of DrPinkCake's code.

Theoretically, there is a line for the outcome "Sage" + "Jill" + "Others"; but in practice it never executes because another set of conditions takes precedence and results in "Sage" + "Others".

I would be grateful to those who are familiar with the code to confirm this point. It could be a bug because the outcomes "Jill" + "Others" and "Jill" exist independently of each other. Thanks!
Since your doing this, you might be the one to answer a question I have: I want a playthrough/save where Jill rejects the MC at the Tybalt dinner. Anything I do to get Jill to reject me just prevents her from being an option at the Dik table, and whenever she become a viable choice she says yes to the mc. I thought affinity would be the easiest way to get her to say no, but at the end of ep7 you need neutral to keep her as an option 7D to 6C, and after 2 Dik choices in ep 8 I am now permanent neutral with 2 chick bars left 9D to 6C. Then I tried just helping sick Sage and in those runs Jill is never an option at the ep 8 table.

What is the chain of events/affinity/status I need to keep her an option and yet reject me.
 

Jonboy80

Active Member
Dec 8, 2017
775
787
Josy forced herself on me, I was powerless. God is my witness, I tried...
Not sure if sarcasm but will reply in the vein of you being serious.

AFAIK that is the only forced sexual situation, at least in my playthrough. I'm not too fond of the rape aspect in VNs, so having the MC be sexually assaulted by her was rather off putting for me, regardless of her intentions. I've gone the celibate route while pursuing Jill after that scene. It's funny that I'm generally fine with polyamory but in these VNs, I like the one girl for the MC routes.

Can't start Episode 8 though as I crash after the E7 overview. Really not keen on redownloading the game again, even compressed, to continue the story so I'll likely wait for the 1.0 release in a year or two. Will give me plenty of time to forget details while I play the route again.

Edit: I was actually annoyed that there wasn't the option to get out of her dorm ASAP or to not remain friends with her after you finally confront her and Josy together, at least on the Chick path. Having been a male victim of sexual assault at a young age, I really hated how laid back MC's attitude with her was. Maybe I needed to be an asshole to her more after that.
 
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Sep 9, 2021
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I agree that the Zoey story in Interlude is quite ridiculous, a horny and sexually active girl goes to live among surf dudes and becomes suddenly a nun while dating a gay. That's going too low in the story credibility, it's not really pleasing (I found it very boring actually).

I don't think DPC has done this narrative choice for generically pleasing the player (many of us don't mind seeing normal sexual behaviour in a fictional story), but instead protect the most sensible and emotional players, because many would be hurt emotionally if an attractive girl has sexual interactions outside the MC. And they are very vocal about that, when it happens.
So DPC lowers the bar of the narration, avoiding problematic content to accommodate as many customers as possible. It's a safe marketing choice at the expense of narrative quality. He wants to maximize his audience (and earnings) and I cannot really blame him for that, he knows that repeating the success of BaD will be very difficult with the next game, because the VN market now is much more crowded then when he started BaD.
Yeah that was the point! She could be fucking around but she didn't to keep her likable for mc( player ) and that would add ntr and i hate ntr.

Zoey pays for her holidays with her grandmother's money, the job only serves to prolong them.

Zoey's request is immature and selfish, and she doesn't seem to realise it yet, and thank God Mc doesn't follow her.
Just before she was leaving Sd. She say she ran out of grand mother money so mc staying there is possible if he started a business of fucking milfs and I would love that in game
:cautious::LOL:

After reading my comment . . .you to me ; what is wrong with you man .:ROFLMAO:
 
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Jul 22, 2022
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Zoey's an immature teenager...
I think the point about the characters being very young and immature, tends to leave people's minds very quickly even though it's right in front of our eyes. A massive credit to DPC's writing, but let's be real most of the people in this story aren't mentally adults yet.

Love crazy teenagers always tend to act and think in a wacky manner.
 

Ilhares

Engaged Member
Aug 19, 2019
2,991
11,699
Nobody hates Tybalt and Dawe. Nobody hates a retard.
The hell I don't! I realize their situation is almost 100% of the time not their fault, but it doesn't make me like them any more. Specifically, I mean retards in general, not Tybalt and Dawe. T&D are both actively assholes, they get the hate they deserve.
What is the chain of events/affinity/status I need to keep her an option and yet reject me.
Have DIK affinity, she will reject you, no question. Or take care of Sage when she's sick. Guaranteed rejection.
 

Darkdevil66

Magnificent Bastard
Donor
Apr 16, 2020
1,700
41,573
The hell I don't! I realize their situation is almost 100% of the time not their fault, but it doesn't make me like them any more. Specifically, I mean retards in general, not Tybalt and Dawe. T&D are both actively assholes, they get the hate they deserve.
Have DIK affinity, she will reject you, no question. Or take care of Sage when she's sick. Guaranteed rejection.
The chain of event/factors is a bit nebulous but in both cases you mention she can reject you even before the dinner with Tybalt.
 
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ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,425
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In all your thinking, you're forgetting one thing. Zoey and the MC were best friends for years.

I personally have 2 really good friends since I was in kindergarten. I sometimes don't talk to them for 1-2 years. But we are still friends and help each other out or sometimes meet up after 2 years. You should differentiate if someone is a buddy or a real friend.

This brings me back to Zoey. What if Zoey just wants her best friend back and not her fuck buddy?
Yes, we're told many times she's the MC's BFF. But again, what we're shown falls a bit short of that: she insisted the MC do whatever she wanted and he indulged her. She didn't spend much time thinking about the MC (with the exception of one particular part of his anatomy); as I said, even at the end of the Interlude the MC came second to her previously estranged mom.

Now I'm not saying that's an unrealistic relationship, nor even that it's a "bad" one. What I'm saying is that it's difficult to treat that relationship with any importance when we've seen the MC forge much stronger friendships with the LIs (and a few side-girls) in just a couple months. Not only are those relationships much more dynamic, we got to see them *onscreen* over the course of ~3 [real world] years, whereas Zoey's lukewarm friendship was crammed into an hour long digression.

Again, this doesn't mean Zoey is a bad character by any means, but I think it's definitely setting her up to fail. The way her return was framed requires that she have a huge impact on the MC's mindset, but for most players her return will be much less weighty. That's a terrible situation to be in.

And it doesn't matter what everyone thinks about Interlude either. DPC created it and Zoey was thus integrated into the wider story. There's nothing any of us can do about that anyway.:rolleyes:
Yes, believe it or not I realize I can't unmake the Interlude by critiquing it on the internet. I'm merely noting it was a net negative for the game (IMHO, of course).


I saw it a little differently.

The common misconception that Zoey walked away from the mc to chase her dreams often clouds a lot of impressions of her.

If anything, Zoey took the mc for granted, and while she hoped he would travel with her to San Diego, when he decided to stay Zoey believed it was only temporary, she totally believed he was going to come and join her later on. She definitely saw the mc as part of her life long term, even if she wasn’t thinking romantically.

From her perspective, they were best friends but he started distancing himself from her. From his perspective, when she left he realised they were more than best friends, and it hurt that she left. The mc started to sulk a bit, sending terse, uninterested messages, Zoey doesn't get it why he was acting that way.

Then Bret helps her realise the mc thought of their relationship as more than just best friends, and then he gave her the shit advice of distancing herself from him. So they kinda drifted apart. Him sulking, and her thinking that avoiding him would be for the best.

It's only been several months, so it's not like irreparable damage has been done, and when they meet up, they can talk it out and understand how each other feel. They'll fuck, and then we can start making decisions, just be friends with Zoey, be fuck buddies with Zoey, or ditch all the other LIs and ride the blue-haired babe off into the sunset. :love:

DPC has set this up that the mc is hurt by Zoey's actions and Zoey didn't mean to hurt him. It won't take long before they patch things up. But what he's done with the Interlude is put Zoey front and centre in people's minds. We know Zoey's return is gonna be significant.
Again, I'm sure that was the intent but it's not conveyed very well. We see the MC being terse in a few texts, but we never had a baseline to compare it to so it's hard to say if he's upset or just laconic; some of his texts in the main game can be short, too. Other than that we just get Zoey's monologue about how she's started going days without talking to the MC. Moreover, the story is missing the natural capstone where Zoey realizes the MC was right and she had been wrong to run off like that. DPC left all of her introspection up to our imaginations. Meanwhile what he actually showed was Zoey distancing herself from the MC in favor of goofing off with her new friends until the money ran out. :rolleyes:

As I mentioned before, Zoey repairing her relationship with her mom is an explicit plot point; why leave her relationship with the MC completely unexplored? It defeats the purpose of the Interlude because now we're going to have to rehash all this ground in the main game when the two finally meet. That means Zoey's return probably won't have the significance DPC needs it to, and DPC has only himself to blame for that.
 

skc0110

Member
Nov 18, 2021
101
188
Why do wish to suffer ? :cry:

I'd like to see how that save plays out in ch9/Season 3. Does it just auto default to others? Can we rehook up with Sage or Bella? Does Jill tell M&J that we tried to dump them in secret blowing up the throuple?

I have saves for most options sage, bella, jill, M/J, J focused, M focused, others, sage where I banged jade and burke has the vid, ect.... but not this one.
 
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