asker

Member
Oct 6, 2017
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245
Sad day for a great game any release date info yet ? , I am thinking imagine whole great devs getting together and works on 1 project ;

1-DarkSilver
2-DarkCookie
3-Aorrta
4-Ptolemy
5-Lewdlab
 

Xumeey

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
1,262
2,714
This might be a dumb suggestion and I know nothing about creating games so with that in my mind. Can DS officially sell the game to someone who has nothing to do with patreon? DS will not be attached to BB in the eyes of the law and patreon can't ban him for BB because he's not the owner of the game anymore. Just sell the game to someone you trust.
 

Ignazzio

Engaged Member
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May 8, 2017
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It just seems to me, when one VN has a word count that is larger than entire Science Fictions series, it worries me. It may be great, and there is likely a whole lot of good stuff in it, because people love it. I looked it up, and I guess the 1.8 million is for both games together or something? So it might not be that bad.

I think the bigger issue is that a story of this length is still following a basic plot structure of introduction, rising action, climax, falling action, and resolution, but is doing so across a length that the story doesn't actually support. As I was saying, in 1 million words, the entire harry potter series, has seven different climaxes, FSN has like 3. And as for over written, a whole lot of the sequences at home could easily be cut in half, and the world building, while EXCELLENT, is also often redundant. Shiro's thoughts are often redundant as hell as well. Some of my favorite books needed a knife taken to them. A Dance with Dragons is a masterpiece of actual writing, but about 10 - 15 chapters could have been cut and/or condensed and the book would have been stronger for it. Many times long books are honestly indulgent, and the larger versions are often worse. Interview with a Vampire is a prime example of this.
Dunno how it counts about Muv-Luv. It's first part is a typical as hell school love comedy that's max for 50 hours but I doubt it. More like 35. Muv-Luv Extra which is next is something similiar in lenghts (tho plot is already much more complex) and Muv-Luv Alternative that took me 100 hours. But I do admit I was slow. But it's more than 100hours on them all I would guess. Still the longest quality VN I've played. MVA is so long as it tries to create whole universe (and it did) and it uses shittons of military, battleground situations so it makes it more detailed.
Intro, rising action, climax etc. is western idea how lliterature should looks like and even tho it's usually a case it doesn't mean something may looks different. Maybe it's just a way Japanese people tend to write that you can't appreciate? Dunno if you played Clannad - it's another world famous one while it's also rather long. I think it's much longer than F/SN. I just can't remember many VNs that would be much shorter than given 50 hours and keep their quality. You point with books also gives a feeling you just prefer more concised format while it's not objectively better or worse. I very much prefer vast, detailed descriptions of everything if it's made in a way I can enjoy. There is a reason why Dragon Ball Z is a legend while Kai even tho it's the same thing without fillers is in a shadow:p
I make no claims about better or worse. That is subjective outside of what will bring in the largest audience. I am just stating that the numbers show, that in general, men prefer games with male main characters. It's love to see a statistical breakdown on average Patreon earnings based on the gender of the main character, but I am guessing the average earnings on a game with a female MC will be significantly lower than one with a male MC. But to be fair I am just guessing.
You're right that you're guessing and you're probably right about your guess. I wouldn't say disproportion is as huge as you seem to think but male MCs are in general more popular. Personally I have no favourites but observers aren't as common as those who immerse themselves.
Linking purity to virginity is always a little odd. Someone's not a better person because they never had sex, they are simply missing out on a huge part of what makes us human. Now they can decide to do so as a sacrifice for a greater ideal, or because they don't desire sex, but why would you say it's a great thing that someone never really got to experience life to its fullest?
I was just joking. It's just pretty funny for me how easily some aspects that were cherished by centuries can change. I'm not linking virginity to purity (except for games but it's pretty common kink) tho I would't necessary say that staying virgin must mean that person can't experience life to its fullest. But philosophy shouldn't be discussed here I guess. We should cut it off now.
I'm quite proud that I was able to create such a famous character.
I've seen some mentions about Eric is some other games as well :)
That's why I'm so grateful for BB. Even tho it didn't meet my expectations at the end it brought another males to our market and scary NTR \m/ Devs noticed some competition is worth it from time to time. I love it. It works for patrons and grows faster than any other non-vanilla fetish. And it all thanks to Eric. Forever in my memory. Tho as a father you should be ashamed you abandoned your child:/
 

manneychin

Member
May 8, 2017
441
1,256
@DarkSilver, I hope switching to Glamour and bending over for Patreon's Mind Police are just decisions taken in crisis to keep everyone busy doing nothing.

Get it straight. Your money came from selling to perverts and your fame is limited to perverts. In order to keep your momentum going you NEED to create more of what this audience craves for. Even if you switch to another game, your audience is exactly the same, don't fool yourself about this critical fact. Even if you dump incest, in order to serve the only audience that is sure to keep your success running you will have to tap into the many sides of human sexuality that are censored by Patreon's Mind Police. Staying on Patreon simply means you'll fizzle out over the next ~6 months and end up going back to your day job.

Your 0 and 1 priorities are to find a payment method that would allow making games that are even more perverted not less (duh!). You fully investing into making a game without incest is like a pub fully investing into selling beer without alcohol.
 

DarkSilver

Member
Game Developer
Aug 25, 2017
152
799
@DarkSilver, I hope switching to Glamour and bending over for Patreon's Mind Police are just decisions taken in crisis to keep everyone busy doing nothing.

Get it straight. Your money came from selling to perverts and your fame is limited to perverts. In order to keep your momentum going you NEED to create more of what this audience craves for. Even if you switch to another game, your audience is exactly the same, don't fool yourself about this critical fact. Even if you dump incest, in order to serve the only audience that is sure to keep your success running you will have to tap into the many sides of human sexuality that are censored by Patreon's Mind Police. Staying on Patreon simply means you'll fizzle out over the next ~6 months and end up going back to your day job.

Your 0 and 1 priorities are to find a payment method that would allow making games that are even more perverted not less (duh!). You fully investing into making a game without incest is like a pub fully investing into selling beer without alcohol.
I do agree with you. But first things first.
 

Xumeey

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
1,262
2,714
@DarkSilver Can you not sell the game to someone you trust who has nothing to do with patreon? Maybe they can finish the game maybe you can help them finish it wink wink
 

Burt Reynolds Mustache

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Jul 19, 2017
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Maybe it's just a way Japanese people tend to write that you can't appreciate?
I'll leave the other stuff, but I had to respond to this. I adore Japanese writers. Snow Country is one of my favorite novels of all time. Temple of the Golden Pavilion by Yukio Mishima is also one of the all time greats. I have a wall covered in manga, and have been a fan of Japanese shit for pretty much as far back as I remember. As NOVELS, most VNs just aren't very well written, though I think that anything by Urobochi Gen is a step above the usual. The STORY can be great, the Characters can too, and even so the writing itself can have problems. VNs for some reason just tend to be bloated, especially in exposition.
 

Olivia_V

Active Member
Jun 5, 2017
838
1,430
You fully investing into making a game without incest is like a pub fully investing into selling beer without alcohol.
That's the mindset that allowed the PC to lose market share against Apple. My own advice is a bit bolder. Don't be afraid to reach out and grow a new audience. Sure, it may be a gamble. But it will pay off in the long run. I'll bet even a majority of the old audience will come around too.
 

Ignazzio

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May 8, 2017
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I'll leave the other stuff, but I had to respond to this. I adore Japanese writers. Snow Country is one of my favorite novels of all time. Temple of the Golden Pavilion by Yukio Mishima is also one of the all time greats. I have a wall covered in manga, and have been a fan of Japanese shit for pretty much as far back as I remember. As NOVELS, most VNs just aren't very well written, though I think that anything by Urobochi Gen is a step above the usual. The STORY can be great, the Characters can too, and even so the writing itself can have problems. VNs for some reason just tend to be bloated, especially in exposition.
Not a thread for that so I will just say that I disagree even tho you might be right about some specific titles. But that's all our subjective opinions. Btw. didn't read these novels - I will check them if you say they're worth it.
 

Gromlech

Newbie
Jan 2, 2018
27
15
So, not sure if this is answered elsewhere or if anyone else has had this. I'm on Olivia GF route, just had the event, Max eats out Lisa while Olivia blows him, and the walkthrough says to wait 2 days, talk to Lisa "About Olivia", wait a day and do it again, wait another day and do another "Olivia" dialogue with a persuade option involved. When I speak to her, no matter how many times or days in between, she always does the first Olivia dialogue as if It's now stuck on that stage of the route and won't advance, I don't know how I'm meant to get it going again.
 

Ignazzio

Engaged Member
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May 8, 2017
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I always try to reach virgin ending if it's possible with female protag. And I always fail hard
 

Gullyver001

Newbie
May 25, 2017
20
5
I said it many times already. 0.13 will be finished and will be given to everyone as gift from me at next will
This is what i call fanservice. Many thanx DS. I hope you get all fine with your patreon and find another stable alternative donor site. Good Luck.
 

Burt Reynolds Mustache

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Jul 19, 2017
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Not a thread for that so I will just say that I disagree even tho you might be right about some specific titles. But that's all our subjective opinions. Btw. didn't read these novels - I will check them if you say they're worth it.
Well, Snow Country won the nobel prize for literature. Well, technically it's author Yasunori Kawabata won the prize, but the book was one of three cited. It has some amazing imagery, and I just adore it.

No matter how much my writing improves, I will never, ever be that good.
 
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bobbo69

Forum Fanatic
Donor
Jun 18, 2017
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Well, all the best of luck to you and your team DS, I'll keep my pledge the way it is for now, and see how things will turn out for a while, thanks for all you do, we really appreciate your work. :)
 

Gtogtz

Newbie
Dec 27, 2017
48
71
Remember. Ann is in the pornography biz. If we sleep with them or seduce them it isn't incest.... Also you know Lisa and Alice are also in the biz. As long as they are not in the same scene it isn't incest...
 
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