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The Senior Perv

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2022
1,153
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i don.t no why thy can.t put this ON HOLD
What's there to put on hold? Icarus disappeared without a trace. BS Patreon page is currently being checked, but before that he just vanished like TNG when the episode 6 of AOA Academy was going to be released.

I defended the game before, but the dev just couldn't deliver a good revenge story, going so far to make the villains more likeable and the MC and his group more like the real Bitch Squad instead of Kate and her girls. It also didn't help he reacted badly to criticism.
 

legend_shon

Member
Mar 17, 2018
475
338
What's there to put on hold? Icarus disappeared without a trace. BS Patreon page is currently being checked, but before that he just vanished like TNG when the episode 6 of AOA Academy was going to be released.

I defended the game before, but the dev just couldn't deliver a good revenge story, going so far to make the villains more likeable and the MC and his group more like the real Bitch Squad instead of Kate and her girls. It also didn't help he reacted badly to criticism.
idk, bs has the best revenge story on f95.
 
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Kata

Newbie
Feb 17, 2017
68
854
Unlike you, I like where this game was going. Trying not to start new arguments... BUT fact that the bullies were always one step ahead of the MC, does not make the MC dumb. It makes him inexperienced in their tactics. He is not a natural bully and revenge does not come naturally to him.

So to win them in their own game should not be easy. It should take time and ultimately the victory will be so much sweeter.
I also like the option of revenge + forgiveness instead of all-out war (That seems to be one of the paths as well).
The problem isn't that the MC is inexperienced, it's that it's not just the MC. The MC has support of one of the richest and most influential people in the city whom the girls stole from. He has support from the dean of the university that the girls all attend. He has the support from the sorority that they all screwed over. Hell, he even has some support from some of the 'bullies' themselves, on account of some of them being too stupid or oblivious to actually be functional humans. He even has some secret spy tech where he taps all their phones and sees their texts and communications.

And for some insane reason, the bullies are still always a step ahead. For whatever ridiculous reason, despite the mask slipping off multiple times in public and there being a long laundry list of victims, everyone just assumes these random girls are perfect little angels. Not even the government or Illuminati could be written with this level of suspension of disbelief, much less some random schoolgirls.

This is not defensible writing, dude. The scope has already blown so far afield that you could credibly introduce hypnosis, plasma cannons, and magic wands and it still wouldn't be less believable.

It's completely lazy writing. Instead of writing relationships, drama, and characters who evolve and change over time, the author just power creeps everything into oblivion because he wants to maintain the drama status quo without making it seem like nothing is happening. This is common among young, immature writers, whose only understanding of upping tension is to up the stakes. But it doesn't mean we have to all collectively excuse it. Call a spade a spade.

As for a forgiveness route, the problem is several-fold:

First, you cannot 'forgive' someone who shows no contrition. If they show no remorse, or hell, don't even believe they did anything wrong, what are you actually 'forgiving'?

Two, these people are still tormenting the MC. It's not like they stopped and the MC can just move on with his life. They still harass him for completely unknown and unspecified reasons. If the game actually wanted to explore the complexes these girls must have to still be obsessed with this boring, milquetoast lump of a human that is the MC, then maybe we can talk about an actually interesting forgiveness arc. Instead, the developer just wanted people to just forgive for... reasons?

Thirdly, these girls are transparently one-dimensional assholes and the game is framed as a revenge fantasy. Suddenly bait and switching that and making it about trying to forgive and join with them is both tonal whiplash and immensely unsatisfying. You don't want to see a story about the one-note mustache twirlers winning. They aren't even compelling characters. They're just transparent dicks.

Finally, these characters keep escalating and pulling more and more people into the fold. Even if the MC randomly decided to forgive them, it doesn't create a satisfying ending for the long list of characters they screwed over.

The author wanted to keep escalating the drama but quickly ran out of ways to make it keep climbing since the only way he knows how is by making it involve bigger and bigger feats. That's probably why he quit. He wrote himself into a corner and couldn't get himself out. You can tell with his "leaked nudes" dependence that he has no creativity involving acts of bullying, so his only way of escalating is to involve bigger and bigger parties. The problem is you run out of real estate when you reach evil world domination status.

So this game was 100% to my liking. And I think realistic in that the BS are much too experienced to be easily outwitted by the MC. BTW using their femininity, female charms is one 100% part of what female bullies (or females in general) uses to get their way.
And male bullies (and men in general) use their masculinity to try to get their way. Peacocking, machismo, etc are all masculine tools of the trade, and the MC even tries using it on several girls in this series. It still doesn't excuse when it's poorly written, like in this game.
 

Alfius

Engaged Member
Modder
Sep 30, 2017
2,362
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OK, I normally don't drag out arguments, but since the game is already dead, I think I will indulge myself:
The problem isn't that the MC is inexperienced, it's that it's not just the MC. The MC has support of one of the richest and most influential people in the city whom the girls stole from.
She is careful and rightfully so. Kate's dad is a ruthless criminal, and she knows that. (It's been a while since I played this, but I remember her getting burned in the past. (Unfortunately, the game stopped so we will never know the full details)

He has support from the dean of the university that the girls all attend.
They are blackmailing her. Her job is on the line. (Cancel culture and today's power of feminism - remember how Kate got into power? By "exposing" the Sorority's sex games...It's a scandal and the Dean's job is on the line)

He has the support from the sorority that they all screwed over.
They don't know it's the Bitch squad. They think it's the head of the sorority's fault. Samantha(?) is the only one that can clear their name and she is too scared after getting beaten up)

Hell, he even has some support from some of the 'bullies' themselves, on account of some of them being too stupid or oblivious to actually be functional humans. He even has some secret spy tech where he taps all their phones and sees their texts and communications.
What are you talking about. If nothing else, the BS is extremely loyal of each other. The have all for one and one for all approach.

And for some insane reason, the bullies are still always a step ahead. For whatever ridiculous reason, despite the mask slipping off multiple times in public and there being a long laundry list of victims, everyone just assumes these random girls are perfect little angels. Not even the government or Illuminati could be written with this level of suspension of disbelief, much less some random schoolgirls.
Where did the mask slip off? And just thinking about the sex scandal objectively - Say you are the Governing body. There is a huge sex scandal that occurred (And in this instance it was true, so it was not even a lie). Who are you going to sympathize with? The victims, or the "abusers"? That is why they are seen as perfect little girls. Have you even noticed in RL...over achievers are always the teacher's darlings. And they are obviously a very bright bunch of girls. Kate was definitely in some kind of leadership position in school. Also remember, that they rarely did the bullying directly. (Accept Charlotte) They also used other people, (like boyfriends) to bully for them.

This is not defensible writing, dude. The scope has already blown so far afield that you could credibly introduce hypnosis, plasma cannons, and magic wands and it still wouldn't be less believable.

It's completely lazy writing. Instead of writing relationships, drama, and characters who evolve and change over time, the author just power creeps everything into oblivion because he wants to maintain the drama status quo without making it seem like nothing is happening. This is common among young, immature writers, whose only understanding of upping tension is to up the stakes. But it doesn't mean we have to all collectively excuse it. Call a spade a spade.
That is all just your opinion. Just because the story does not go the way you want it to, you blame it on lazy writing. The writing was actually pretty good.
You are just throwing mud out there and hoping it sticks. RL is not fair. Bullies get away with it all the time, but in your perfect little world, they immediately get what's comming to them. It does not work like that. bad people get away with bad things all the time.


First, you cannot 'forgive' someone who shows no contrition. If they show no remorse, or hell, don't even believe they did anything wrong, what are you actually 'forgiving'?
I guess that's up to the player? Like me, I like the forgiveness route. It was still a busy unfolding, so you can not really say "Show no remorse." How do you know? Can you see into the future?

Two, these people are still tormenting the MC. It's not like they stopped and the MC can just move on with his life. They still harass him for completely unknown and unspecified reasons. If the game actually wanted to explore the complexes these girls must have to still be obsessed with this boring, milquetoast lump of a human that is the MC, then maybe we can talk about an actually interesting forgiveness arc. Instead, the developer just wanted people to just forgive for... reasons?
Again, the game was not complete yet. Ever heard of taking the high road? The MC clearly have not forgiven them at this stage in the game. Everything was still busy unfolding.

Thirdly, these girls are transparently one-dimensional assholes and the game is framed as a revenge fantasy. Suddenly bait and switching that and making it about trying to forgive and join with them is both tonal whiplash and immensely unsatisfying. You don't want to see a story about the one-note mustache twirlers winning. They aren't even compelling characters. They're just transparent dicks.
Again that is you hating the story, because you don't like the direction of the story. Well I do. I want to see what the story is telling. Thae fact that you think that everyone wants to see the story unfold they way You (and some others) want it to unfold is a bit....arrogant? Presumptuous is maybe a better word.

Finally, these characters keep escalating and pulling more and more people into the fold. Even if the MC randomly decided to forgive them, it doesn't create a satisfying ending for the long list of characters they screwed over.
Once again.... How would you know. The story was not close to being completed.

The author wanted to keep escalating the drama but quickly ran out of ways to make it keep climbing since the only way he knows how is by making it involve bigger and bigger feats. That's probably why he quit. He wrote himself into a corner and couldn't get himself out. You can tell with his "leaked nudes" dependence that he has no creativity involving acts of bullying, so his only way of escalating is to involve bigger and bigger parties. The problem is you run out of real estate when you reach evil world domination status.
I hardly think he quite because of that. Most probably the game income was less than expected, and the negativity around the game made him give up.
Presumptuous once again.

And male bullies (and men in general) use their masculinity to try to get their way. Peacocking, machismo, etc are all masculine tools of the trade, and the MC even tries using it on several girls in this series. It still doesn't excuse when it's poorly written, like in this game.
I don't get your point that you are trying to make on this one. The BS are not males, and the MC is a male that does not know how to bully, but tries to?
 
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Kata

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Feb 17, 2017
68
854
First of all, formulate your points into coherent generalized points. This quoting everything out of context does not work as an argument, it just makes it easier for YOU to write digestible little tidbits out of context that you THINK counters the points presented.

Now, there's no way for me to refute points without getting lost in the woods of dozens of minor points rather than any overarching argument. Convenient for you, since I've yet to see anything other than "it just works..."

She is careful and rightfully so. Kate's dad is a ruthless criminal, and she knows that. (It's been a while since I played this, but I remember her getting burned in the past. (Unfortunately, the game stopped so we will never know the full details)
This is not an excuse for someone to literally outsmart spy tech, influential people, teachers, and everyone else while she haphazardly pushes the boundaries against dozens of people, often with hundreds of witnesses. It completely bypasses the suspension of disbelief.

If you want to argue that she's careful because she makes sure her actions are especially innocent-seeming and very localized, sure. That's fine. If you want to argue that she's careful and people with actual authority aren't involved yet, that's also fine. You cannot mix in scale, scope, and authority and have her still be a step ahead without making it seem like she's on some evil mastermind Illuminati bullshit.

It's the same way I won't believe some 5 year old masterminded the theft of the Mona Lisa from the Louvre and millions of gold bullion from Fort Knox while moonlighting as a normal suburban kindergartener with no one suspecting anything. It's because it's nonsense.

They are blackmailing her. Her job is on the line. (Cancel culture and today's power of feminism - remember how Kate got into power? By "exposing" the Sorority's sex games...It's a scandal and the Dean's job is on the line)
First of all, having a sorority sex party is not inherently a scandal. It was the hazing part that would make it a scandal, and that has nothing to do with cancel culture or feminism. Hazing is a scandal because it's dubious consent or even nonconsent and the vast majority of the backlash comes from male fraternities, not sororities.

Secondly, you ignore how they leaked MC's nudes in front of the entire orientation and got zero consequences, despite never even denying that it was their pictures in the first place (and no one thought to wonder why they would have those pictures in the first place?). "We were hacked" does not absolve you if you blast revenge porn all over the school.

Let's not even get into how they acquired those nudes in the first place, which involved one of their squad luring in MC, stealing his clothes and then him emerging naked, and then blasting his pictures in front of the whole school. So somehow the bitch squad masterminded everyone to see these pictures by telling them... what exactly? And also out of these hundreds of potential witnesses, nobody notices that one of them is in there with him? It would be so easy to establish culpability here that it's hilarious to try to make it out as if nobody could even suspect that the girls had no idea.

You can argue all you want about how Kate is "careful" except this is not a careful plan. This is a fucking hamfisted plan with dozens if not hundreds of moving parts that somehow coalesce perfectly into being a "careful plan." It's symptomatic of all sorts of "genius planner" bad writing where somehow being smart means you have supernatural knowledge or the ability to see the future.

Again, this horrible writing is the consequence of the developer utterly failing at coming up with any kind of "bullying" that doesn't involve somehow getting a hold of someone's nudes. Except when they get physically beat up by boyfriends who are somehow "manipulated" by them into doing so (no mention of how) and no consequences for them despite plenty of physical evidence of a fight. How can you just beat up somebody in front of potential witnesses and no one asks the boyfriends questions?


That is all just your opinion. Just because the story does not go the way you want it to, you blame it on lazy writing. The writing was actually pretty good.
You are just throwing mud out there and hoping it sticks. RL is not fair. Bullies get away with it all the time, but in your perfect little world, they immediately get what's comming to them. It does not work like that. bad people get away with bad things all the time.
Where did I suggest anything of the sort? Please point it out to me.

Nowhere did I suggest that they needed to get their comeuppance immediately. Hell, they don't need to get their comeuppance at all. It just needs to fit with the tonal direction of the story. Instead, the author keeps ragebaiting people by showing all the asshole shit the bullies do and then trying to act like the optimal gameplay path is to be manipulated by them and forgive them at every turn.

I said the author kept amateurishly raising the stakes by building the bitch squad into bigger and bigger masterminds without changing the state of the game. They're still bullies who are weirdly obsessed with the MC, it's just that their bullying is escalating and involving more and more moving parts and pissing off bigger and bigger people with no apparent consequence.

Hell, MC's new friends, despite multiple people including the MC detailing their abuses, despite seeing them leak the MC's nudes in front of the whole school, despite knowing that the dean suspects them for the sorority debacle, are somehow defending the bullies. And your reaction to this isn't, "knowing what we know, that's really dumb of her," it's, "bullies get away with it all the time!"

Yes, they do, because absense of substantial evidence to overcome their hero worship, not because someone witnessed an abundance of substantial evidence and pretended they didn't see it for contrived plot convenience.

I guess that's up to the player? Like me, I like the forgiveness route. It was still a busy unfolding, so you can not really say "Show no remorse." How do you know? Can you see into the future?

Again that is you hating the story, because you don't like the direction of the story. Well I do. I want to see what the story is telling. Thae fact that you think that everyone wants to see the story unfold they way You (and some others) want it to unfold is a bit....arrogant? Presumptuous is maybe a better word.

Again that is you hating the story, because you don't like the direction of the story. Well I do. I want to see what the story is telling. Thae fact that you think that everyone wants to see the story unfold they way You (and some others) want it to unfold is a bit....arrogant? Presumptuous is maybe a better word.

Once again.... How would you know. The story was not close to being completed.
This is just silly. "You cannot see into the future!!" is not the end-all-be-all argument you think it is.

No, I cannot. And neither can you! Instead of putting out why the direction of the story makes sense, you just want to assume everything is fine because "you cannot see into the future." By this logic, any unfinished game cannot be criticized because you cannot see into the future! It's so silly.

Story elements in a good story should feel coherent even in the moment. They can be shocking, they can be unexpected, but they shouldn't feel out of nowhere for no damn reason. Many of your arguments aren't even grounded in reality. I said that the bullies have a large list of victims beyond the MC, so even if the MC forgives them it's not satisfying because the bullies didn't answer for their laundry list of misdeeds.

What does "seeing into the future" have anything to do with that? How is that "hating the story"? It's human nature to want to see bad people get their just desserts. You're telling me that everybody who wants to see a bunch of shitbags who do evil shit to a bunch of people get their comeuppance is "hating the story"? What hogwash.

Not a single member of the bitch squad has expressed any remorse over what happened to the MC. It's all "you should just get over it" for heinous sexual and physical bullying and MC should just go, "oh ok, I'll listen to you"?

You literally are trying to argue against a factual statement (that you can't forgive someone who has no remorse), and never actually offer any examples of them doing so. Instead, because the game isn't finished, we're supposed to ignore all the nonsense that's happening on the screen because MAYBE it all comes together perfectly and makes sense.

This is some gaslighting. Maybe you are the bully.

I hardly think he quite because of that. Most probably the game income was less than expected, and the negativity around the game made him give up.
Presumptuous once again.
You're just as presumptuous as I am. The developer never stated the reason for him quitting, and even if he did it might not be the whole truth. Yet I'm presumptuous for bringing up how he runs out of real estate, while you're not presumptuous because you assume a completely different unspecified reason. Cool cool cool...

I don't get your point that you are trying to make on this one. The BS are not males, and the MC is a male that does not know how to bully, but tries to?
Your entire tone is weird, to be honest. Your argument is that "feminism" is why the dean is in a bind, and "femininity" is why the bullies can get away with it. Except it doesn't explain why other women who are victims don't get the same treatment as the bullies (bullies getting their nudes leaked = praised for their strength, other women getting their nudes leaked = slut shame them), nor does it explain why their boyfriends were able to get away with it while beating up people with their fists. Pretty sure that had nothing to do with their femininity.

Seems less like a male/female dichotomy and more of a the bullies' halo effect and plot armor, but you do you.
 
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Alfius

Engaged Member
Modder
Sep 30, 2017
2,362
4,932
First of all, formulate your points into coherent generalized points. This quoting everything out of context does not work as an argument, it just makes it easier for YOU to write digestible little tidbits out of context that you THINK counters the points presented.

Now, there's no way for me to refute points without getting lost in the woods of dozens of minor points rather than any overarching argument. Convenient for you, since I've yet to see anything other than "it just works..."



This is not an excuse for someone to literally outsmart spy tech, influential people, teachers, and everyone else while she haphazardly pushes the boundaries against dozens of people, often with hundreds of witnesses. It completely bypasses the suspension of disbelief.

If you want to argue that she's careful because she makes sure her actions are especially innocent-seeming and very localized, sure. That's fine. If you want to argue that she's careful and people with actual authority aren't involved yet, that's also fine. You cannot mix in scale, scope, and authority and have her still be a step ahead without making it seem like she's on some evil mastermind Illuminati bullshit.

It's the same way I won't believe some 5 year old masterminded the theft of the Mona Lisa from the Louvre and millions of gold bullion from Fort Knox while moonlighting as a normal suburban kindergartener with no one suspecting anything. It's because it's nonsense.



First of all, having a sorority sex party is not inherently a scandal. It was the hazing part that would make it a scandal, and that has nothing to do with cancel culture or feminism. Hazing is a scandal because it's dubious consent or even nonconsent and the vast majority of the backlash comes from male fraternities, not sororities.

Secondly, you ignore how they leaked MC's nudes in front of the entire orientation and got zero consequences, despite never even denying that it was their pictures in the first place (and no one thought to wonder why they would have those pictures in the first place?). "We were hacked" does not absolve you if you blast revenge porn all over the school.

Let's not even get into how they acquired those nudes in the first place, which involved one of their squad luring in MC, stealing his clothes and then him emerging naked, and then blasting his pictures in front of the whole school. So somehow the bitch squad masterminded everyone to see these pictures by telling them... what exactly? And also out of these hundreds of potential witnesses, nobody notices that one of them is in there with him? It would be so easy to establish culpability here that it's hilarious to try to make it out as if nobody could even suspect that the girls had no idea.

You can argue all you want about how Kate is "careful" except this is not a careful plan. This is a fucking hamfisted plan with dozens if not hundreds of moving parts that somehow coalesce perfectly into being a "careful plan." It's symptomatic of all sorts of "genius planner" bad writing where somehow being smart means you have supernatural knowledge or the ability to see the future.

Again, this horrible writing is the consequence of the developer utterly failing at coming up with any kind of "bullying" that doesn't involve somehow getting a hold of someone's nudes. Except when they get physically beat up by boyfriends who are somehow "manipulated" by them into doing so (no mention of how) and no consequences for them despite plenty of physical evidence of a fight. How can you just beat up somebody in front of potential witnesses and no one asks the boyfriends questions?




Where did I suggest anything of the sort? Please point it out to me.

Nowhere did I suggest that they needed to get their comeuppance immediately. Hell, they don't need to get their comeuppance at all. It just needs to fit with the tonal direction of the story. Instead, the author keeps ragebaiting people by showing all the asshole shit the bullies do and then trying to act like the optimal gameplay path is to be manipulated by them and forgive them at every turn.

I said the author kept amateurishly raising the stakes by building the bitch squad into bigger and bigger masterminds without changing the state of the game. They're still bullies who are weirdly obsessed with the MC, it's just that their bullying is escalating and involving more and more moving parts and pissing off bigger and bigger people with no apparent consequence.

Hell, MC's new friends, despite multiple people including the MC detailing their abuses, despite seeing them leak the MC's nudes in front of the whole school, despite knowing that the dean suspects them for the sorority debacle, are somehow defending the bullies. And your reaction to this isn't, "knowing what we know, that's really dumb of her," it's, "bullies get away with it all the time!"

Yes, they do, because absense of substantial evidence to overcome their hero worship, not because someone witnessed an abundance of substantial evidence and pretended they didn't see it for contrived plot convenience.



This is just silly. "You cannot see into the future!!" is not the end-all-be-all argument you think it is.

No, I cannot. And neither can you! Instead of putting out why the direction of the story makes sense, you just want to assume everything is fine because "you cannot see into the future." By this logic, any unfinished game cannot be criticized because you cannot see into the future! It's so silly.

Story elements in a good story should feel coherent even in the moment. They can be shocking, they can be unexpected, but they shouldn't feel out of nowhere for no damn reason. Many of your arguments aren't even grounded in reality. I said that the bullies have a large list of victims beyond the MC, so even if the MC forgives them it's not satisfying because the bullies didn't answer for their laundry list of misdeeds.

What does "seeing into the future" have anything to do with that? How is that "hating the story"? It's human nature to want to see bad people get their just desserts. You're telling me that everybody who wants to see a bunch of shitbags who do evil shit to a bunch of people get their comeuppance is "hating the story"? What hogwash.

Not a single member of the bitch squad has expressed any remorse over what happened to the MC. It's all "you should just get over it" for heinous sexual and physical bullying and MC should just go, "oh ok, I'll listen to you"?

You literally are trying to argue against a factual statement (that you can't forgive someone who has no remorse), and never actually offer any examples of them doing so. Instead, because the game isn't finished, we're supposed to ignore all the nonsense that's happening on the screen because MAYBE it all comes together perfectly and makes sense.

This is some gaslighting. Maybe you are the bully.



You're just as presumptuous as I am. The developer never stated the reason for him quitting, and even if he did it might not be the whole truth. Yet I'm presumptuous for bringing up how he runs out of real estate, while you're not presumptuous because you assume a completely different unspecified reason. Cool cool cool...



Your entire tone is weird, to be honest. Your argument is that "feminism" is why the dean is in a bind, and "femininity" is why the bullies can get away with it. Except it doesn't explain why other women who are victims don't get the same treatment as the bullies (bullies getting their nudes leaked = praised for their strength, other women getting their nudes leaked = slut shame them), nor does it explain why their boyfriends were able to get away with it while beating up people with their fists. Pretty sure that had nothing to do with their femininity.

Seems less like a male/female dichotomy and more of a the bullies' halo effect and plot armor, but you do you.
I tried to break down your previous post to give a concise, point by point counter argument, that seemed to work, since you continued to reply to the points. The size of your replies just makes it impossible to continue with a pointwise counter argument, since the argument will now just be lost in a wall of text.

So I will give a summary as requested.

"She is careful and rightfully so". I was not referring to Kate or the BS, it was referring to the ONE, SINGLE Influential person that you are referring to. She is careful since she knows Kate's dad (A ruthless criminal). What teachers are on his side? None? The dean that is being blackmailed?

The sex scandal is nothing!?... My word... if a sorority leaks nude pictures of the whole house...that will be a pretty big scandal.
Google search in 10 seconds




Yes, the dean barely kept her job as in RL. She now needs to watch her step. And the BS was the victims. There is no way you can spin this story. This was 100% realistic.

I single nude picture in classroom? ..... meh (This happened in BID as well). Personally, a similar prank occurred when I was in College. It's a moment of embarrassment for affected parties and quickly forgotten by everyone. Barely newsworthy (Especially if it's a nude picture of a man)

In terms of Showing no remorse.... well is the game finished or not? Do all the characters react the same way? Annie and Sarah seems more remorseful then Kate and like I said. A lot can still happen. The game was not finished. In terms of revenge or forgiveness... why do you need one path. I play one way and you another. All out revenge was never of the table.

In anycase...I could go on about on about the rest of the disagreements, but I think I will end it here.

For me and some other players, the game was fine as is. For you and some other players, the game become shit.
Fair enough, not everyone like the same thing.

What I do not understand, and not referring to you (as far as I know), IS why people that don't like the game keep on posting in this thread...update after update. bringing up the same point over and over again. I mean, there are some games that I also don't like... I will post my opinion and then probably not visit the thread again or play any subsequent updates.

I don't mind negative opinions, or bad reviews. but when you said what you wanted to say, the why still hang around.... I just don't understand that.


All this is a moot point for this thread, since the game is dead. But in general...I don't understand that behavior.
 

Kata

Newbie
Feb 17, 2017
68
854
I tried to break down your previous post to give a concise, point by point counter argument, that seemed to work, since you continued to reply to the points. The size of your replies just makes it impossible to continue with a pointwise counter argument, since the argument will now just be lost in a wall of text.

So I will give a summary as requested.

"She is careful and rightfully so". I was not referring to Kate or the BS, it was referring to the ONE, SINGLE Influential person that you are referring to. She is careful since she knows Kate's dad (A ruthless criminal). What teachers are on his side? None? The dean that is being blackmailed?

The sex scandal is nothing!?... My word... if a sorority leaks nude pictures of the whole house...that will be a pretty big scandal.
Google search in 10 seconds




Yes, the dean barely kept her job as in RL. She now needs to watch her step. And the BS was the victims. There is no way you can spin this story. This was 100% realistic.

I single nude picture in classroom? ..... meh (This happened in BID as well). Personally, a similar prank occurred when I was in College. It's a moment of embarrassment for affected parties and quickly forgotten by everyone. Barely newsworthy (Especially if it's a nude picture of a man)

In terms of Showing no remorse.... well is the game finished or not? Do all the characters react the same way? Annie and Sarah seems more remorseful then Kate and like I said. A lot can still happen. The game was not finished. In terms of revenge or forgiveness... why do you need one path. I play one way and you another. All out revenge was never of the table.

In anycase...I could go on about on about the rest of the disagreements, but I think I will end it here.

For me and some other players, the game was fine as is. For you and some other players, the game become shit.
Fair enough, not everyone like the same thing.

What I do not understand, and not referring to you (as far as I know), IS why people that don't like the game keep on posting in this thread...update after update. bringing up the same point over and over again. I mean, there are some games that I also don't like... I will post my opinion and then probably not visit the thread again or play any subsequent updates.

I don't mind negative opinions, or bad reviews. but when you said what you wanted to say, the why still hang around.... I just don't understand that.


All this is a moot point for this thread, since the game is dead. But in general...I don't understand that behavior.
You should read the articles you linked because that's a completely different situation. The fraternity was distributing other peoples' nudes without their consent, which is an example of revenge porn and illegal. It's not because they were hosting consensual sex parties.

The idea that distributing nudes among fraternity members being a massive sex scandal but nonconsensually showing someone's nudes in front of the entire class as just "meh" is an outrageous amount of doublethink. If you think showing fraternity members someone's nudes without consent is worthy of scandal and losing your job but showing nudes to everybody without consent is meh then there's nothing to discuss, your hypocrisy is already too far gone. These are both examples of revenge porn and if anything, the latter is worse. The inconsistency is the problem, as you're demonstrating here.

And if Kate is not the person you refer to as being 'careful,' it becomes even more unlikely then that she can leave behind a trail of victims and have no one suspect anything. That's the entire point. I'm not sure why you keep sticking to irrelevant side points that don't affect the overall argument. Regardless, Kate's alleged "carefulness" is not enough of an explanation for why everyone simply ignores the evidence that she's horrible. And it's even less of a reason if she's not even the one you claim is being careful.

Not to mention that if you're trying to argue that one of the richest and most influential people in the city is somehow hamstrung because of Kate's parents connections, it's exactly the problematic storytelling that I was complaining about. The MC presents her with photographic evidence of one of the bitch squad stealing an expensive piece of jewelry on exhibition. Literally a witness to the theft of an object which could easily be proven to have been stolen. It's not even Kate herself either. It's one of Kate's friends. So you're telling me that an open and shut grand larceny case against one of Kate's high school friends would somehow be inhibited because of Kate's alleged connections? Really? What, is Kate's dad supposed to be the head of the cartels? It's completely ridiculous. Iklylabs has lost the fucking plot.

Annie and Sarah didn't show fuck all in terms of remorse. Annie insists they never bullied MC because... reasons, and Sarah is largely too stupid to know what's going on. Neither of them ever condemned anyone's actions. It was just excuse after excuse for why MC either deserved it or is overreacting. That's narcissism, not remorse.

Sure, you can keep parroting "the game is not finished" but it doesn't mean you can't criticize what is presented as is. Trying to forgive people who are not showing remorse is not satisfying. Trying to forgive people who are STILL HARMING the MC is not satisfying. Trying to forgive people who are still shown to be harming others is not satisfying. I dare you to counter those points with anything beyond "the game is not finished."

Maybe, we should wait for them to start showing remorse, to stop harming the MC, and to stop fucking with other people and THEN we can decide if we want to forgive them? If that's the plan I have no issue with it. But that wasn't the plan, because the developer was expected us to start forgiving them before they do any of that.

And finally, these are my first posts in this thread, and only because despite the obvious shortcomings of the game (which I believe contributed to its abandonment), we still have someone trying to gaslight everyone else into believing they simply don't exist.

Now it's perfectly fine if you like the game as is. As you said, no accounting for different tastes. But to act as if everyone who notices them (and there were a lot of people who noticed a lot of flaws) is just hating for no particular reason is a level of blind loyalty that beggars belief and rationality.
 
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duckydoodoo

Member
Nov 9, 2023
270
422
lol, and here i left the game cause i didnt want to play a "good guy" that also does a lil rape on the side. but according to these essays there was so much snore!
 

WastedTalent

Active Member
Dec 11, 2020
963
1,534


Still waiting for someone to explain why these wealthy overachieving "Bitches" are going to some no name community college instead of somewhere on the list above? I can't believe these women who want power and influence wouldn't choose one of these places and rub elbows with others like them instead of some unknown place for their future subordinates... porn logic is the only answer I can come up with.
 

Derpyshanks

Member
Jul 14, 2021
313
521
I hardly think he quit because of that. Most probably the game income was less than expected, and the negativity around the game made him give up.
I can only hope I did my part in this. 1727923591899.png

Lord knows you sure as hell did comrade. 1727923718869.png

Happy the way things turned out. Ickylabs waving the white flag and all. 1727923739961.png

As a result, this thread has become better than the game itself. 1727922472721.png

Goes to show a good thing can really come from a herpderp game like this. Cheers! 1727923731478.png
 
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Alfius

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You should read the articles you linked because that's a completely different situation. The fraternity was distributing other peoples' nudes without their consent, which is an example of revenge porn and illegal. It's not because they were hosting consensual sex parties.

The idea that distributing nudes among fraternity members being a massive sex scandal but nonconsensually showing someone's nudes in front of the entire class as just "meh" is an outrageous amount of doublethink. If you think showing fraternity members someone's nudes without consent is worthy of scandal and losing your job but showing nudes to everybody without consent is meh then there's nothing to discuss, your hypocrisy is already too far gone. These are both examples of revenge porn and if anything, the latter is worse. The inconsistency is the problem, as you're demonstrating here.

And if Kate is not the person you refer to as being 'careful,' it becomes even more unlikely then that she can leave behind a trail of victims and have no one suspect anything. That's the entire point. I'm not sure why you keep sticking to irrelevant side points that don't affect the overall argument. Regardless, Kate's alleged "carefulness" is not enough of an explanation for why everyone simply ignores the evidence that she's horrible. And it's even less of a reason if she's not even the one you claim is being careful.

Annie and Sarah didn't show fuck all in terms of remorse. Annie insists they never bullied MC because... reasons, and Sarah is largely too stupid to know what's going on. Neither of them ever condemned anyone's actions. It was just excuse after excuse for why MC either deserved it or is overreacting. That's narcissism, not remorse.

Sure, you can keep parroting "the game is not finished" but it doesn't mean you can't criticize what is presented as is. Trying to forgive people who are not showing remorse is not satisfying. Trying to forgive people who are STILL HARMING the MC is not satisfying. Trying to forgive people who are still shown to be harming others is not satisfying. I dare you to counter those points with anything beyond "the game is not finished."

Maybe, we should wait for them to start showing remorse, to stop harming the MC, and to stop fucking with other people and THEN we can decide if we want to forgive them? If that's the plan I have no issue with it. But that wasn't the plan, because the developer was expected us to start forgiving them before they do any of that.

And finally, these are my first posts in this thread, and only because despite the obvious shortcomings of the game (which I believe contributed to its abandonment), we still have someone trying to gaslight everyone else into believing they simply don't exist.

Now it's perfectly fine if you like the game as is. As you said, no accounting for different tastes. But to act as if everyone who notices them (and there were a lot of people who noticed a lot of flaws) is just hating for no particular reason is a level of blind loyalty that beggars belief and rationality.
OK Not going to try and refute all this.
Just on one point:
You said:
You should read the articles you linked because that's a completely different situation. The fraternity was distributing other peoples' nudes without their consent, which is an example of revenge porn and illegal. It's not because they were hosting consensual sex parties.

Now I'm quoting from one of the articles:-
Penn State said it found members had forced pledges to run errands, clean the house, participate in boxing matches and maintain a painful posture similar to a push-up position, called a plank, with bottle caps under their elbows. Pledges also produced stories with pornographic images and what was described as a sex position of the day. The university said underage drinking and drug sales and use also were problems.
Sounds very similar to what was happening in the game (Except the game focused more on sexual hazing). To join the fraternity, you were coerced to do these things...

Also I was doing a 10 second Google search... so not really an in-depth analysis, but I'm pretty sure that what they were forcing the BS to do to join would be a major scandal and rightfully so. That is precisely what happened.

So I will conclude with this:
Now it's perfectly fine if you like the game as is. As you said, no accounting for different tastes. But to act as if everyone who notices them (and there were a lot of people who noticed a lot of flaws) is just hating for no particular reason is a level of blind loyalty that beggars belief and rationality.
There were also a lot of people that did not consider it as obvious flaws, but indeed a different interpretation. I never said that people are hating for no reason. I expressed my dumbfoundedness of how people that hate the game (for in their mind legitimate reasons) sticks around in a thread of a game they don't like.

like Derpyshanks. It still blows my mind.
 
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Alfius

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Still waiting for someone to explain why these wealthy overachieving "Bitches" are going to some no name community college instead of somewhere on the list above? I can't believe these women who want power and influence wouldn't choose one of these places and rub elbows with others like them instead of some unknown place for their future subordinates... porn logic is the only answer I can come up with.
See, now this is a legitimate point. One that may or may not have an answer later on in the game, but 100% legitimate question. Although for me, that is a minor negative.
 

Canto Forte

Post Pro
Jul 10, 2017
21,624
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Well .. if anyone really has to know: it is called wealth priviledge, the one Kevin Heart and the majority of comedian stand up artists today make fun of - the act of moving into and living in a walled in and protected community and sending their kids to the community favourite institution where everyone in their community send their kids to: they feel like they are in control of the private institution they send their kids off to like they are confortable and welcomed or appreciated or feared in their own community, by the fact that that institution demands certain standards or allows for certain practices - but also because that institution is the go to place for the community.

Not to get confused that HArvard or Yale or Oxford do not have hazing low brow frats or circles where hazing still goes on to this day - which are well documented in the media - but for the parents, it is always good to have a grip on your tuition charges and handling of your kids by supporting a community backed institution. Going to overseas or out of state universities when you know you have a place well secured, by your own finances, for your girl boss to be daughter - after the widely publicised bribery scandal of one certain rich mother offering millions for admission of her daughter to some stuck up fancy institution - is a way better choice that loosing your daughter to some foreign friends and foreign frats you might not have a good handle on.
One that may or may not have an answer later on in the game, but 100% legitimate question.
Still waiting for someone to explain why these wealthy overachieving "Bitches" are going to some no name community college instead of somewhere on the list above?
This game alludes to the fact that the friendship circles of the girls we follow in the game are known and tolerated by the higher ups and the parents and that rich atendees are protected - or so MC feels about how he and his friends think they are being snubbed out of the good social circles in a mean and unwarranted way.

The devil you know is always better than that you do not and a community favourite institution should be the go to place, as opposed to snubbing everyone by sending your kids to Princeton, or Yale, out of state, ruining their socialite connections.
 
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Kata

Newbie
Feb 17, 2017
68
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I'm not going to belabor the points either, since it's very unlikely we'll ever agree, but I can't let misinformation stand.

Sounds very similar to what was happening in the game (Except the game focused more on sexual hazing). To join the fraternity, you were coerced to do these things...

Also I was doing a 10 second Google search... so not really an in-depth analysis, but I'm pretty sure that what they were forcing the BS to do to join would be a major scandal and rightfully so. That is precisely what happened.
It's also exactly what I said when I said, and I quote, "First of all, having a sorority sex party is not inherently a scandal. It was the hazing part that would make it a scandal, and that has nothing to do with cancel culture or feminism." You blamed "cancel culture and feminism" as reasons for why the bitch squad might get away with whatever they're doing. It's not, those are not the reasons they are protected. They're protected because the game gives them insane plot armor that boggles the mind and beggars belief.

If anything, the bitch squad should be in trouble because they were the ones who actually distributed the revenge porn, which is the most immoral action. Instead, they're lauded for it. And, like I said in my review way back when, it's not even consistently handled in the game. The BS can distribute sorority and MC's nudes and get those guys in trouble. But when someone leaks the BS's nudes, it's made out like they're the victims, which they are. Revenge porn is always bad, kiddos.

This wouldn't be half as problematic if the developer knew how to write any kind of female bullying that didn't involve leaking nudes, but that's the problem. He doesn't.

So I will conclude with this:

There were also a lot of people that did not consider it as obvious flaws, but indeed a different interpretation. I never said that people are hating for no reason. I expressed my dumbfoundedness of how people that hate the game (for in their mind legitimate reasons) sticks around in a thread of a game they don't like.

like Derpyshanks. It still blows my mind.
First of all, there you go again. You write off criticism of this game's flaws as "a different interpretation." It's not. Every time someone brings up the flaws of any given game, it's not just because they somehow "don't get" the interpretation that the developer is going for. Most things have flaws. That's ok, it's perfectly reasonable to discuss them, or even make fun of them (within reason) without someone going, "they're not flaws, you just don't get it!" or "the game isn't finished yet!"

Like I said, I could accept a forgiveness route. Hell, I would even welcome one if it was written well. The problem is the game is not an example of a well written forgiveness route thus far. None of them have earned forgiveness via their contrition (because there isn't any contrition), and the MC is not emotionally or socially better off for selecting any of the forgiveness options. This makes a forgiveness route in game feel unsatisfying objectively. People like rewards that are real and feel earned, not asspulls or punishments disguised as "rewards." Especially not after the game spends most of the story trying to ragebait the player with panel after panel of horrible deeds and slide after slide of the MC claiming woe is me.

Secondly, you can be profoundly disappointed in something and end up feeling invested in it. Hatewatching shows, for instance, is more common than you think. Something can also be so bad that it's entertaining. Like it sucks, and you know it sucks, but you tune to find how much more it can possibly suck.

Either way, it's not really either of our places to come and police whether people like a game enough to stick around posting in the game thread.

Well .. if anyone really has to know: it is called wealth priviledge, the one Kevin Heart and the majority of comedian stand up artists today make fun of - the act of moving into and living in a walled in and protected community and sending their kids to the community favourite institution where everyone in their community send their kids to: they feel like they are in control of the private institution they send their kids off to like they are confortable and welcomed or appreciated or feared in their own community, by the fact that that institution demands certain standards or allows for certain practices - but also because that institution is the go to place for the community.
Except if they were that powerful to begin with, to the point where you can wipe away grand larceny with photographic evidence, wielding power and influence at an elite institution would not be difficult. Money is money and influence is influence. If you have the means to easily buy off someone in Minnesota, the wealth disparity is not so vast that you can't tempt anyone in Boston.
 
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Alfius

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I'm not going to belabor the points either, since it's very unlikely we'll ever agree, but I can't let misinformation stand.



It's also exactly what I said when I said, and I quote, "First of all, having a sorority sex party is not inherently a scandal. It was the hazing part that would make it a scandal, and that has nothing to do with cancel culture or feminism." You blamed "cancel culture and feminism" as reasons for why the bitch squad might get away with whatever they're doing. It's not, those are not the reasons they are protected. They're protected because the game gives them insane plot armor that boggles the mind and beggars belief.

If anything, the bitch squad should be in trouble because they were the ones who actually distributed the revenge porn, which is the most immoral action. Instead, they're lauded for it. And, like I said in my review way back when, it's not even consistently handled in the game. The BS can distribute sorority and MC's nudes and get those guys in trouble. But when someone leaks the BS's nudes, it's made out like they're the victims, which they are. Revenge porn is always bad, kiddos.

This wouldn't be half as problematic if the developer knew how to write any kind of female bullying that didn't involve leaking nudes, but that's the problem. He doesn't.
Normally I would not, but dead game thread...why not:

"but I can't let misinformation stand." Well me neither.

Was it part of hazing???? YES.
Did anyone know that it was the BS leaking it??? NO. (Samantha, the MC and his crew with no evidence)

It looks like you are the one with comprehension problems not me.

So I'm keeping my opinions out and just stating facts here...

When you say " they were the ones who actually distributed the revenge porn" - So tell me who knows that and give me screenshots to back that up. BTW the MC did not get into trouble for leaking nudes.

I now need very specific details of your alleged plot Armour.
 
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DougDimmadope

Newbie
May 21, 2020
92
825
I defended the game before, but the dev just couldn't deliver a good revenge story, going so far to make the villains more likeable and the MC and his group more like the real Bitch Squad instead of Kate and her girls. It also didn't help he reacted badly to criticism.
Maybe the dev is 3000IQ and that was intention of the story. It will eventually be revealed that the 'Bitch squad' was actually MC and his friends.

Cause tbh, thats all they did the entire game, just bitch about other people.
 
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