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Raf-Raf

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Dec 4, 2019
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I didn't play the old RRH game yet but is RRH also a mix of souls and memories like Grimm? What make her and for a certain degree also Elizabeth a special existence compare to every other characters that Mary Sue made.
From what I think I know, I just see RRH as female Grimm, both suffered some f-ed up stuff and both don't give up / can't be controlled by their creator I guess?
All I know about their connection is from BS 1's line from Elizabeth where she talks about a daughter of hers (Elizabeth's) that she doen't like.
(Dam- I might have to re-read every dialogue in BS 1 again)


A lil' bonus:
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SpearOfLies

Newbie
Dec 20, 2018
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From what I think I know, I just see RRH as female Grimm, both suffered some f-ed up stuff and both don't give up / can't be controlled by their creator I guess?
All I know about their connection is from BS 1's line from Elizabeth where she talks about a daughter of hers (Elizabeth's) that she doen't like.
(Dam- I might have to re-read every dialogue in BS 1 again)


A lil' bonus:
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I treat Grimm a bit more special because he is made of pieces of souls from what we assume real people so it does make sense it have a stronger will to go against Mary Sue. I was considering if RRH was a similar existance while Elizabeth is a remnant of an old memories that chase after her.
 

Phenir

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2019
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That's what makes RRH special. Out of all of Mary Sue's creations, RRH is her greatest "failure" because RRH didn't follow Mary Sue's story and killed her grandmother instead of dieing like she was supposed to. In a way, Grimm is similar to RRH because of that. While Grimm is Mary Sue's greatest creation, he also didn't follow the story completely and it ended up with Mary Sue's downfall, whether by his own hand in C end or by Crawling One in D end. You might call RRH a prototype of Grimm because of that. Or maybe Mary Sue is just bad at learning from her mistakes.
 

richen.piss

Member
Mar 4, 2019
354
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for lazy people who arent lazy to read ,here is what you are missing by not going fishing in this thread
ahh,the gud times /tear
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1.You forgot to put the old king in the chaos dungeon in the list. When we defeated the old king mabel said its a rematch, but we surely didnt fight the old king in BS 1 which only leads to the teaparty.

2.Most of the children that are in BS2 wonderland is grimm and node children which is stated in ending B. As a proof there is a phrase in the wiki page which said [ In the case of Node, it is the case where the protagonist has been provided as a stallion by signing a contract with Nialatothep, ].So i dont understand your [and to be his bride in order to create new future rulers so that Wonderland can continue to exist ] i didnt even see node and nyaalice children.

3.your point of and sharing mary sue power among themselves and the born heroines as future rulers from Node, the "power of creation", the ability to give life, childbirth).But as we know most of the heroines are grimm and Node children.Which is something to discuss about


4.. Prickett and Node capture Mary Sue, strip her of her godhood and share among themselves .
But what i found on the wiki was [ After the Red Queen and the White Queen brought down the deity of Mary's, the power It is said that the ability to transform itself was made dominant in order to take away the power and prevent the possibility of problems with each other]

Forgive the stupid google translator, they even have the heroine name wrong. But from what i heard and what i found on this thread at the early age. The power of mary sue have been seal inside the snow castle, and the reason is mary sue power is too strong so to prevent possiblity problems from each other none of them use mary sue power but sealed it out instead.We can probally check which version is correct when the dlc 3 comes out.

[Notice:the wiki only said they didnt use the power and seal it out but they didnt say the location. The snowcastle which i said was an early guess/theory by someone on this tread.

Thats all for now i am tired for reading the whole passage. My eyes hurts
 

richen.piss

Member
Mar 4, 2019
354
179
That... is very interesting and something worth investigeting when I have enough time to play the game again for the evil/madness run. Did the scene change somehow or it just lack the RRH involvement? If nothing change, it's still worth to check.
I'm checking right now what she said after the fact and "This hotel... I'm glad its out of business. Its methods were in bad taste. You're wise if you've never use it." so this doesn't confirm neither deny the fact the C ending existed or not. It's just her wish you never use the hotel and as you said, we can get the C ending without using it.

We actually don't know what fairy tales are. We treat them as people and the game want us to believe that. If we assume that everything in BS1 is as Mary Sue intended except for the Baphomet ending then the C ending is actually something that Mary Sue wanted. She wanted us to "betray" her for her amusement. For all the intent and purpose, the C ending requirements are pretty much fucked up so its not unlikely to be something she planned.

Another way to interpret C ending is just grimm went insane and started killing everyone, but he wanted to believe he did it for the better good so we are tricked to see what he wanted to see. But the sin of it still carry over to the hotel scene in BS2. There isn't much ground for this interpretation but it's hard to find an answer when you don't know what it's real and what it's fake and doesn't help you don't know if what the characters see or believe are real or fake either.
There is a way to find out, for that we need what i asked which is leaf true ending from BS 1. I have very less memory from the ending but i do remember her slighty giving a hint about fighting her as true boss is also one of the ending she gave, But since i need a proof can someone go check in Bs 1 leaf true ending?

Notice: For leaf true ending there will be an similiar img with leaf ending but there will be blood spoil on her face when she does that innocent smile in leaf end
 

Phenir

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2019
1,980
1,284
1.You forgot to put the old king in the chaos dungeon in the list. When we defeated the old king mabel said its a rematch, but we surely didnt fight the old king in BS 1 which only leads to the teaparty.

2.Most of the children that are in BS2 wonderland is grimm and node children which is stated in ending B. As a proof there is a phrase in the wiki page which said [ In the case of Node, it is the case where the protagonist has been provided as a stallion by signing a contract with Nialatothep, ].So i dont understand your [and to be his bride in order to create new future rulers so that Wonderland can continue to exist ] i didnt even see node and nyaalice children.

3.your point of and sharing mary sue power among themselves and the born heroines as future rulers from Node, the "power of creation", the ability to give life, childbirth).But as we know most of the heroines are grimm and Node children.Which is something to discuss about


4.. Prickett and Node capture Mary Sue, strip her of her godhood and share among themselves .
But what i found on the wiki was [ After the Red Queen and the White Queen brought down the deity of Mary's, the power It is said that the ability to transform itself was made dominant in order to take away the power and prevent the possibility of problems with each other]

Forgive the stupid google translator, they even have the heroine name wrong. But from what i heard and what i found on this thread at the early age. The power of mary sue have been seal inside the snow castle, and the reason is mary sue power is too strong so to prevent possiblity problems from each other none of them use mary sue power but sealed it out instead.We can probally check which version is correct when the dlc 3 comes out.

[Notice:the wiki only said they didnt use the power and seal it out but they didnt say the location. The snowcastle which i said was an early guess/theory by someone on this tread.

Thats all for now i am tired for reading the whole passage. My eyes hurts
You missed the part where he copy pasted an old post.
There is a large time skip between bs 1 and bs 2. You can tell because Node has been recording how many times Grimm uses the loop crystal and it already has 60+ times when the game first starts. Old king fight could be here or between tea party and bs 1 or during the time travel I suspect will happen in DLC 3.

Grimm is basically made to breed with any Great One, not just Node. In the true ending route she says as much, that many Great Ones breed with Grimm including herself.

There is a note in the chaos dungeon about what happened to Mary Sue's power to create. It was stripped from her, by the red and white queens, and turned into another outer god and then sealed away in a castle. By the time BS 2 comes around, it is said to have died and disappeared. DLC 3 takes place in/around that castle.
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richen.piss

Member
Mar 4, 2019
354
179
Somehow that reminds me of Good ol' Snow White of BS 1
snowwhite is top in my tier list. But i really hope she can stop her envy which can even freeze time...

Probally have something to do with Snow Girl Gerda which will come out in dlc 3
 

SpearOfLies

Newbie
Dec 20, 2018
54
26
There is a way to find out, for that we need what i asked which is leaf true ending from BS 1. I have very less memory from the ending but i do remember her slighty giving a hint about fighting her as true boss is also one of the ending she gave, But since i need a proof can someone go check in Bs 1 leaf true ending?

Notice: For leaf true ending there will be an similiar img with leaf ending but there will be blood spoil on her face when she does that innocent smile in leaf end
I'm not sure if it's the official translation but:
"This is just the beginning. I'm the author. The character. The mastermind. Or, maybe, the princess."
"Any role I'll perform perfectly. Even the one where I die."
"Well, Grimm? This is my love-letter. Sweet happy endings, gloomy bittersweet endings, hopeless bad endings, all."
"All I give you~"

I don't know why of all corrupted ending, I missed her. I know I stopped watch them as I don't particolary enjoy them. I guess this works as solid proof that the C ending is actually within her plans.
 
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gex459

Newbie
Jul 19, 2018
39
29
Man that extra leaf dialogue after ending C made getting to ending C hurt my soul even more.
 

Raf-Raf

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 4, 2019
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If this is a boss then I wanna fight it already.
My balanced save is ready \@ w@/
Hopefully it ain't a damage sponge but with strats like The Old King

ED: I just realized that this is the annoying one in BS 1...Our fellow undead...
 
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Phenir

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2019
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If this is a boss then I wanna fight it already.
My balanced save is ready \@ w@/
Hopefully it ain't a damage sponge but with strats like The Old King
Toro already talked about some of the balance of the new enemies. They are supposed to be stronger than what you find the chaos dungeon and undersea. He also mentioned a boss with overwhelming attack power (instant death at less than 10k status) when he showed off the self revive armor. 10k defense can easily reach max defense with buffs and certain gear/ring loadout.
Also the spoiler title is just a guess at who it could be.
 

Crestrial

Member
Mar 15, 2019
202
813
I'm trying to piece together what actually happens in this game and was wondering if there is someone who is more in-the-know about the lore here can give some answers as explanations seem to be rare. I'm not sure if it's because of the translation and/or just the overwhelming content that can be approached in the 'wrong' sequence of events that can make it get confusing. Spoilers, of course.

1)
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4.80 star(s) 86 Votes