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Phenir

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Sep 28, 2019
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Yes, were you referring to when he blocked her scythe from beheading Miranda? Because that's a far different thing from restraining an outer one, especially one as strong as Jabberwock. Nothing in the dialogue there points to Hein restricting Jabberwock from doing anything other than making snowmen. He even seems to show some surprise that she is an outer one.
 

ggjohnson4256

Member
Apr 28, 2018
105
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Yes, were you referring to when he blocked her scythe from beheading Miranda? Because that's a far different thing from restraining an outer one, especially one as strong as Jabberwock. Nothing in the dialogue there points to Hein restricting Jabberwock from doing anything other than making snowmen. He even seems to show some surprise that she is an outer one.
I believe that Heinz has little to no connection to Jabberwock playing around by making snowmen. Heinz apparently is the "Senpai" to Miranda (or the ghoul that ate her) and wants to be a "Black Conductor" in real life (not in this fake stage). You met him in the house near the Cemetery in Blacksouls I and he sells "black soul." (good shit)

Similar to how Lindemia is a member of the Black Trial, I believe that Heinz is also a member and is doing some shady stuffs away from Baphomet, or setting it up. Anyway, sorry for the rambling but Node is more or less confirm to be the mother of the Covenant Girls in this game. If you make it too Winterbell, you will see that it is teeming with copies of the covenant girls.

If that is not all, Node and Prickett are teaming up to take the Crawling One down. The reason? The Crawling One went mad and lost their identity and become the Crawling Girl - Alice in an attempt to understand "love."

Mabel is implied to be a part of this stage at one point and a few other Great/Old One too. Obviously she lefts and no one like her because of her Garden and flippant attitude. Judging by the Chaos Dungeon, a few of them were killed in secret by the Crawling One.

I hope this clear up any confusion you may have. To reach Winterbell, you need ending G and I believe that you got it already. Go to the Carroll River and go near the elevator area. You will see TWO enemies if you do it right. Save your game because they both will wreck your shit five months till Christmas because that is how hard they are.
 

Phenir

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Sep 28, 2019
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Looks like you quoted the wrong person cause I definitely don't need any help getting around in this game. But almost everything you wrote seems right to me.
I'll confirm that Heinz is/was a member of the Black Trial from BS 1, but I don't think he was up to anything other than trying to keep a low profile. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason he was in the Black Trial to begin with was to have an excuse to gather black souls. He seems like the kind of character that is a bit strong maybe but talks himself up a lot to make him seem like a big deal so people don't even try to test him.
I don't think the part about Node being the mother of all of them is correct either. B end seems to imply that there is significant incest going on and in G end Node outright says that you fucked your children to make more children. I doubt they all originate from Node either since crawling one went through the trouble to invite other outer ones to play roles in the garden and at least some of them wanted in for the child making (mabel says their plan was that at the start anyway). As for all the girls in Winterbell, gotta store all those potential soldiers somewhere. Doesn't necessarily mean they are Node's children. Also, for some reason Mary is there. That one actually confuses me.
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ggjohnson4256

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Apr 28, 2018
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Sorry about that, I was trying to continue the conversation and give some help. Really, the lore of this game is one wild ride to wrap my head around. Also, any idea about the face that appear at the end after the "Node and Mary Ann" scene?
 

Phenir

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Sep 28, 2019
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That's actually something I wanted to bring up while I was investigating around winterbell during the making of that post. I'm not sure at all who it could be. Only a couple of people would know Mary Sue was there. Crawling one is out obviously since she just got done thrashing Mary Sue. Prickett is out probably, she doesn't act/talk like that. Mabel might know she was there but the eyes don't match. I think it might be a yet unknown character meant to show up in BS 3. What we do know is Mary Sue and this character know each other and this character seems to be very familiar with her since she says "my cute little Mary"
 
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c.o.w

Active Member
Jan 5, 2018
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That's actually something I wanted to bring up while I was investigating around winterbell during the making of that post. I'm not sure at all who it could be. Only a couple of people would know Mary Sue was there. Crawling one is out obviously since she just got done thrashing Mary Sue. Prickett is out probably, she doesn't act/talk like that. Mabel might know she was there but the eyes don't match. I think it might be a yet unknown character meant to show up in BS 3. What we do know is Mary Sue and this character know each other and this character seems to be very familiar with her since she says "my cute little Mary"
baphomet? like mother like daughter, i think she died in ending D but they're old ones, who know what kind of things they do behind scenes to return and keep the fuckery
 

Phenir

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I thought that but Mabel seemed pretty angry for just a temporary death. I figure Baphomet would also pick up Lindamea for the Black Trial again but he seems unaware of her still being alive based on his dialogue of rebuilding the Black Trial himself. Mabel did mention that Grimm consorted with Baphomet and there could be a child so maybe she's not truly dead or her will was passed on to the child. The chaos dungeon also has some text about your child being born from a black and slimy womb (which I originally thought might be referring to Miranda's ending from BS 1) and Mabel's mention refers to the union as a "union of pure black". If it is Baphomet, I'd expected Mary Sue to have a bit more of a reaction than "Oh". Now that I think about it though, maybe that in itself is a hint given the dialogue during D end in BS 1. Baphomet is also one of the few characters that does the fullscreen face thing, with the other being Mary (and maybe you can count Mabel's). Finally, I suppose it's possible the Baphomet in BS 1 is just a copy similar to Victoria. If that Baphomet is a copy, then technically she really wouldn't be Mary Sue's mother and she wouldn't be dead either and it's completely possible for her to escape that white prison like Victoria did.
Interestingly, the only direct mention of Baphomet (as opposed to be referred to as the Black Goat) is during the G end encounter with Jabberwock. Miranda compares the pressure given off by Jabberwock as similar to Baphomet, even though the two are probably opposite on their stances of black souls, with one hunting them down and the other raising them.
 
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richen.piss

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Mar 4, 2019
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That's actually something I wanted to bring up while I was investigating around winterbell during the making of that post. I'm not sure at all who it could be. Only a couple of people would know Mary Sue was there. Crawling one is out obviously since she just got done thrashing Mary Sue. Prickett is out probably, she doesn't act/talk like that. Mabel might know she was there but the eyes don't match. I think it might be a yet unknown character meant to show up in BS 3. What we do know is Mary Sue and this character know each other and this character seems to be very familiar with her since she says "my cute little Mary"
Some people say it might be jabberwocky but i doubt it,it might also be a new character that havent appear in the game
 

Phenir

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Sep 28, 2019
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Well, Jabberwock is an option. She's obviously doing stuff behind the scenes and doesn't mind acting out against crawling one like she did in BS 1 or with that snowman that tells you how to get into G end. She also has those snowmen in her home, one of which being named Mary Sue. Now that I compare her eyes to the one in the image from that flashback, there are some similarities. The color is similar and in the image, the right eye seems misshapen compared to the left one, similar to Jabberwock's dead eye and glowing eye. I'll just handwave the glow itself since that would be a dead giveaway. Given her goal of nurturing black souls, freeing Mary Sue would align with that perfectly. She's definitely a strong contender for the identity of that person.
 

Alexander The Great

New Member
Dec 8, 2019
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Unless... Node does say she bore at least some children but you don't see any little Nodes running around anywhere and Mary is the closest thing you'd get to Node with both being a white rabbit. I don't actually believe this
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Well, Jabberwock is an option. She's obviously doing stuff behind the scenes and doesn't mind acting out against crawling one like she did in BS 1 or with that snowman that tells you how to get into G end. She also has those snowmen in her home, one of which being named Mary Sue. Now that I compare her eyes to the one in the image from that flashback, there are some similarities. The color is similar and in the image, the right eye seems misshapen compared to the left one, similar to Jabberwock's dead eye and glowing eye. I'll just handwave the glow itself since that would be a dead giveaway. Given her goal of nurturing black souls, freeing Mary Sue would align with that perfectly. She's definitely a strong contender for the identity of that person.
It is also revealed in reverse route that she was the one responsible for Mary Sue's actions in BS1 by giving her a fairy book and manipulating and watching her become a Creator. Having invested in Mary Sue/Leaf progress, Jabberwock would likely helped to free her so she can continues her plan.
 

AxelX7

Newbie
Feb 19, 2018
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has the 3rd dlc been english patch finished or updated?
Another question.
Does anyone know if black souls eeny meeny miny moe making more games anytime soon?
I really love their content.
 
4.80 star(s) 71 Votes