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b00marrows

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Apparently, it takes into account both parents’ fertility stats
Thats a given, make no sense otherwise.
I suspect its a roll on both sides. Both sides check for a success and 2 successes = pregnancy.

Statistic progress is exponential. As you get better nephs (bovaur for example) with a higher base fertility you can escalate the games progress faster.
Faster again when you start leveling the zones to get better base nephs.

One of the early development ideas was the breeder is the TRAINER. Meaning the breeder becomes the base levels and stats by being high levels and "pumping" a ton of XP/stats into new nephs. Which is deffinety a thing.
Once you get a higher grade stat (stats have levels and grades) the breeder can boost both the level and a stat of a neph quite fast.
Its the grind, the game has to have some substance at the end of the day.
 

ninjahedgehog

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Oct 23, 2018
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Damn I only posted about it because I long played a previous version and don't remember the pregnancy chance being this bad. and I agree with @muschi26. Grinding for grinding's sake is not good game design. There should be a point or benefit to a repetitive task aside from just receiving the end reward otherwise you're showing little respect for your player's time.
 

b00marrows

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Are you two sure a breeding game is for you?

There should be a point or benefit to a repetitive task aside from just receiving the end reward
Read that again in any context.

The benefit of a task is the end reward, that's why you do the task.
Repetitive or not, the task has a goal that being sex and pregnancy. AKA breeding.
The statistic, ratings, exp, levels, traits and economy are all parts of the grind. The grind for improvement and progression.
 

ninjahedgehog

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Oct 23, 2018
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Maybe I worded myself wrong because critizing grind is tricky. But you can't deny that there's a tipping point where a grind can be too much for too little payoff.
 

b00marrows

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Maybe I worded myself wrong because critizing grind is tricky. But you can't deny that there's a tipping point where a grind can be too much for too little payoff.
Oh sure. But if the sex/pregnancy/progression isn't the payoff than what would be?
Some see the gates as bad, but with no progression or exploration whats the point? Just arguing against a gameplay at that point.
 

MadGenuis

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Jan 6, 2019
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Oh sure. But if the sex/pregnancy/progression isn't the payoff than what would be?
Some see the gates as bad, but with no progression or exploration whats the point? Just arguing against a gameplay at that point.
Surely the lack of a payoff isn't the issue. People tend to be really fond to deal in absolutes regarding a lot of things, and grind is definitely one of those things. Some people will make wide, general statements that all grind is bad, while others will make equally general statements that grind is just an expected part of all gameplay and thus cannot be considered bad. A lot of people fail to consider that most things, including grindiness of gameplay, is not a binary condition that either exists or does not exist, nor can it even be considered a two-dimensional curve. It is something with a lot of factors that can make it more or less tolerable and enjoyable.

In its current iteration, Breeders of the Nephelim has a lot of Nephilim that can be collected, but most of them are gated behind progression that requires grind to get to, limiting how many you can get. Luckily the way to do this is to capture and/or breed the available types of nephilim, and there are a lot of different sexual positions that can be used for this... though these positions are also gated behind progression and requires a different kind of grind.
There is grind for world levels, there is grind for capturing nephilim with certain traits, there is grind for nephilim with better stats, grind for hybridization, grind for points for sexual positions... and the fact that almost everything is gated makes the grind toward progression that much less enjoyable.

There is also such a thing as making sure that grind is varied to make it more enjoyable. Once upon a time, the first time I really started to question the direction of this game was when sexual positions were locked away. I mean... initially you are so limited in what you can do, it's almost literally just repeating the same exact action over and over again. I can't imagine a lot of people still consider it a payoff or rewarding to watch a vulwarg have sex in the exact same position the tenth time in a row it happens. Or the fifteenth. Or the Twentieth.
Variety gradually sneaks in, but you have to grind so much for it that I don't even have the desire to try. Grind is fine, but it can be taken too far and become too monotonous. Having progression is good, but having that progression be slow and function by essentially locking away core aspects of the game and force grind to actually access them just ends up frustrating.

Gates, progression and grind aren't "good" or "bad," but they can be implemented well or poorly. If you enjoy the design of this gating and progression, good for you, but I seem to see a lot of people around here that agree that the way it is done here is not enjoyable.
 
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Draupnir7

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I'm one of those weirdos in between 'grind is bad' and 'grind is expected'. I'm more towards 'grind is expected', a childhood spent playing JRPGs has somewhat hardened me, but this game is one that takes a belt-sander to my patience.
I don't even watch the sex anymore, I just knock the critters together like action figures. And without save-scumming, it can take days in-game to get one of the little fuckholes pregnant, and then you have to wait several more days in-game to be disappointed out of the game when the trait you were hoping would be passed down isn't.

Each time I play this, after a bit, I decide to ignore progression until I get my stock of nephs roughly how I want them. And I don't mean max-ranked uber-chads or whatever, I just want to make sure I have a few males and females of each species that I can fairly reliably use to pass along traits, and hopefully get a near-perfect replica of one of the parents.
Neurotic, I know.
Well, I never get to that point. I get bored, and I get frustrated, and then I get fucking BORED. I can't even maintain my own goal of a personally-appealing breeding stock.

Your mileage may vary, but that's the mark of an awful grind to me.
 

b00marrows

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alota fkn words
Man that was a read.

Well mainly the message was them saying "grind = bad" and my message was grind is a requirement for progression and advancement. As simple as that is, if it was too easy it would also be boring.

I feel a part of the issue is HOW people are playing. I have played the game for a LONG time now and have a pretty decent understanding on how to do things, this is likely why i find the grind more tolerable.
The end of the day this aint no gacha and there no dumb loan to repay so smash through the grind by jumping through the days. ezpz.
 

MadGenuis

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Man that was a read.

Well mainly the message was them saying "grind = bad" and my message was grind is a requirement for progression and advancement. As simple as that is, if it was too easy it would also be boring.

I feel a part of the issue is HOW people are playing. I have played the game for a LONG time now and have a pretty decent understanding on how to do things, this is likely why i find the grind more tolerable.
The end of the day this aint no gacha and there no dumb loan to repay so smash through the grind by jumping through the days. ezpz.
You say "just game the system to make the grind easy." I (and others) say "if the system requires being gamed to be made tolerable, just make the grind easier in the first place." Just because a workaround for a problem exists, it doesn't mean the problem stops being a problem.
It's a similar issue as when bigger developers make games with intentionally slow progression, only to then sell various boosters to the players to let them pay you to fix the issue you yourself created... only there isn't even a micro-transaction here to explain why it's there. Not that having the micro-transaction would have been better, mind you - dear god no - but it would indicate why it is. As it is, all the grind does is to serve as a mild inconvenience to those who game the system, and a waste of time to the ones who don't. And a big encouragement to use the cheats for the game to skip some of the grind (and the game) entirely.

EDIT: For posterity finding this post and wondering why I quit the discussion, read the posts below this one on this page. I'm looking for amicable discussion, not opinions of "I don't give a fuck about the thing you care about" or "Oh no the games a bit grindy, what are you ever going to go??!? Jeez, grow a pair and get to work you fucking millennial." That is not the words of someone open to discussion.
I have said what I need to say, I think. Carry on, and have a nice day.
 
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b00marrows

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You say "just game the system to make the grind easy." I (and others) say "if the system requires being gamed to be made tolerable, just make the grind easier in the first place." Just because a workaround for a problem exists, it doesn't mean the problem stops being a problem.
Where did i say to "game the system"?

All i explained was that there's no loan to repay or day limit. No weird background timers or mechanics getting in the way of the player.
So just breed and sleep, nothing is stopping you from smashing through the grinding super fast.
There's even a "quick sex" option just to make the grind faster, use it.
 

technomage

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There's even a "quick sex" option just to make the grind faster, use it.
Now if we only had a quick sex option for the wild sex, that would be great...waiting for the 5 bars to fill up is a pain in the arse. Yes I know we can turn off the wild sex, but that ruins some of the fun of the grind. Add in the ability of breaking out of the wild sex would be even better! Dunno how many better mobs I've lost because I was stuck in the wild sex of a mob I didn't want.
 

b00marrows

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Now if we only had a quick sex option for the wild sex, that would be great
Oh god fuck yeah. No option to skip or make it faster, worst is when its someone you don't care about.
Dodging and running away helps but the only tip i can give is that you can use "interacting" to make all aggro drop (after a few seconds).
 

Draupnir7

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Oh god fuck yeah. No option to skip or make it faster, worst is when its someone you don't care about.
Dodging and running away helps but the only tip i can give is that you can use "interacting" to make all aggro drop (after a few seconds).
Which is when the wonky targeting picks from the coom crowd chasing you instead of the one you're after, and you get jumped the moment you back off. Can't tell you how many times...
 

Dirgha

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Mar 11, 2020
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Now if we only had a quick sex option for the wild sex, that would be great...waiting for the 5 bars to fill up is a pain in the arse.
Dunno how many better mobs I've lost because I was stuck in the wild sex of a mob I didn't want.
That's what makes the game more realistic. ;)
Playing in a fully controlled environment would be rather boring, isn't it?
 

b00marrows

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Also, think about it for a moment: this is a porn game in which the porn gets so tedious that it’s preferable to skip it.
Well no.
If you wanna sit there and watch every single breeding session of every single monster, go for it.
I wanna get to the better stuff faster thanks.
 
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