VN Ren'Py Corporate Culture [v0.6] [sqwl]

[bacienvu88]

I also used to be as dumb as the MC in picking up social cues. That's a bonus.

I don't see MC as dumb. He is just too busy having inner monologues (dialogues?) to be able to pay attention to what other people are actually saying or doing. When he actually pays a bit of attention he seems to be fairly successful (e.g. Lucy).

 

[Canto Forte]

MC gets trashed by girls for being a lunatic .. so close your systems and go out talk to girls,
get your dumb MC shenanigans outta your system and live life in the real world with real girls.

As a corporate wage slave with no motivation, this VN speaks to me on an emotional level.

I also used to be as dumb as the MC in picking up social cues. That's a bonus.

I don't see MC as dumb. He is just too busy having inner monologues (dialogues?) to be able to pay attention to what other people are actually saying or doing. When he actually pays a bit of attention he seems to be fairly successful (e.g. Lucy).

 

[Pr0nmanreview]

First time checking this out, got to say the story has me a little conflicted. Our MC starts off rough and appears almost autistic (not meant derogatively) but at the same time appears competent and insightful randomly when with Elsa or his best friend. Certain moments like him pretending to shoot Elsa make me cringe. Also while love at first sight is a thing to a degree, it's incredibly unrealistic given this stories love of pessimism and cynicism. This hits me as a player even harder because I feel like I'm walking the MC to an ending with a character I have no interest in. Since Alice isn't really interesting compared to the well established Elsa and Lucy. Heck I would gladly take more interactions and a relationship path with Zoe over Alice.

I hope this game branches and we have a choice for Elsa, would suck if it's Alice or nothing. So my hope is the reason she's just a bland dreamgirl is to spark the change MC needed. However the journey to change himself with Elsa makes him realize she's the better fit for him. That said the way Elsa is written I could see her eventually becoming somewhat of an antagonist, at least given the push to put that in your brain by Ego. Either way she's much more intriguing and really makes listening to MC pine after Alice a bit annoying.

The writing isn't perfect and while I'm a realist and can be pretty pessimistic myself I can't help but feel disconnected a little by just how pitiful the worldview on display is. I've known plenty of ambitious people who can be cutthroat when necessary but also very caring and empathetic when it counts. If you stray too far and only see being nice as a bad thing then when you abandon those things to make it to the other side a harsh reality is waiting that even success can be lonely and leave you just as broken.

 

[Ottoeight]

First time checking this out, got to say the story has me a little conflicted. Our MC starts off rough and appears almost autistic (not meant derogatively) but at the same time appears competent and insightful randomly when with Elsa or his best friend. Certain moments like him pretending to shoot Elsa make me cringe. Also while love at first sight is a thing to a degree, it's incredibly unrealistic given this stories love of pessimism and cynicism. This hits me as a player even harder because I feel like I'm walking the MC to an ending with a character I have no interest in. Since Alice isn't really interesting compared to the well established Elsa and Lucy. Heck I would gladly take more interactions and a relationship path with Zoe over Alice.

I hope this game branches and we have a choice for Elsa, would suck if it's Alice or nothing. So my hope is the reason she's just a bland dreamgirl is to spark the change MC needed. However the journey to change himself with Elsa makes him realize she's the better fit for him. That said the way Elsa is written I could see her eventually becoming somewhat of an antagonist, at least given the push to put that in your brain by Ego. Either way she's much more intriguing and really makes listening to MC pine after Alice a bit annoying.

The writing isn't perfect and while I'm a realist and can be pretty pessimistic myself I can't help but feel disconnected a little by just how pitiful the worldview on display is. I've known plenty of ambitious people who can be cutthroat when necessary but also very caring and empathetic when it counts. If you stray too far and only see being nice as a bad thing then when you abandon those things to make it to the other side a harsh reality is waiting that even success can be lonely and leave you just as broken.

BUT that's the opposite of what you say: Elsa is the heroine, Alice is the antagonist.

Alice isn't the main girl. ELSA is the story's main girl, without any doubt.

 

[Canto Forte]

Riiight ... while dev made MC be the protagonist and
Elsa the whino rich bitch not competent to the slightest
and only interested in twisting MC mind into doing her bidding,
while the both left feet and left two hands student crush is made into a doll.

 

[Kionashi]

First time checking this out, got to say the story has me a little conflicted. Our MC starts off rough and appears almost autistic (not meant derogatively) but at the same time appears competent and insightful randomly when with Elsa or his best friend. Certain moments like him pretending to shoot Elsa make me cringe. Also while love at first sight is a thing to a degree, it's incredibly unrealistic given this stories love of pessimism and cynicism. This hits me as a player even harder because I feel like I'm walking the MC to an ending with a character I have no interest in. Since Alice isn't really interesting compared to the well established Elsa and Lucy. Heck I would gladly take more interactions and a relationship path with Zoe over Alice.

I hope this game branches and we have a choice for Elsa, would suck if it's Alice or nothing. So my hope is the reason she's just a bland dreamgirl is to spark the change MC needed. However the journey to change himself with Elsa makes him realize she's the better fit for him. That said the way Elsa is written I could see her eventually becoming somewhat of an antagonist, at least given the push to put that in your brain by Ego. Either way she's much more intriguing and really makes listening to MC pine after Alice a bit annoying.

The writing isn't perfect and while I'm a realist and can be pretty pessimistic myself I can't help but feel disconnected a little by just how pitiful the worldview on display is. I've known plenty of ambitious people who can be cutthroat when necessary but also very caring and empathetic when it counts. If you stray too far and only see being nice as a bad thing then when you abandon those things to make it to the other side a harsh reality is waiting that even success can be lonely and leave you just as broken.

look there is a thing you guys need to understand, while you will be able to shape in some ways the personality of the MC and his evolution, you are NOT the MC, of course he will do stuff you disagree with and not always you will be able to relate with his current mindset, he is his own character with a very defined past, not a vessel to allow the player to self insert in the story, he has his past and his own motivations... and like it or not, the MC is (at least for now) hooked to Alice, that's the main component that moves the plot forward, the MC can't NOT be in love with Alice because that would destroy his motivation to make it big in the corporate world, he wants to be someone so he can be worth of Alice's attention and that's the reason he is working with Elsa right now.

Now don't get me wrong, Im confident we will have the option to choose another love interest in the future but complaining the MC is not doing stuff you would do is silly, this is a story and certain things need to happen so the plot moves forward.....

 

[Pr0nmanreview]

look there is a thing you guys need to understand, while you will be able to shape in some ways the personality of the MC and his evolution, you are NOT the MC, of course he will do stuff you disagree with and not always you will be able to relate with his current mindset, he is his own character with a very defined past, not a vessel to allow the player to self insert in the story, he has his past and his own motivations... and like it or not, the MC is (at least for now) hooked to Alice, that's the main component that moves the plot forward, the MC can't NOT be in love with Alice because that would destroy his motivation to make it big in the corporate world, he wants to be someone so he can be worth of Alice's attention and that's the reason he is working with Elsa right now.

Now don't get me wrong, Im confident we will have the option to choose another love interest in the future but complaining the MC is not doing stuff you would do is silly, this is a story and certain things need to happen so the plot moves forward.....

I think you misunderstood my position if you lump me in with other people's opinions here . I clearly said "the MC" in my post not "I". If I felt like it was self-insert I would have talked about it more in the first person. A lot of what I disagree with isn't the acts of the character doing what I wouldn't, it's more a character acting in a way that pulls me out of the story since it doesn't work. His character is too simple at times and then complex in other moments.

I also understand Alice is important to the story, my point is that she is bland and the reason the MC likes her is stupid. It would be better if there was more reasoning behind him liking her than that very bad first encounter. Love at first sight just doesn't fit the overall tone of the storytelling and is hard for the player to agree with in my opinion. Even just adding a more stable reason like having the scene where Alice takes you to the hospital be her introduction to her. So have MC get hurt somehow in the office, she happens to be involved and helps him. That encounter springs him towards this change. I don't need to like Alice, I just want a better reason for why MC likes her.

I never understand why every thread I write out my thoughts in about a game fans can't just make their points without throwing in stuff like "it's a game" or like you condescendingly trying to teach me or saying I'm complaining instead of just acknowledging my opinion and criticism may differ and stating yours in response. You completely missed my points and just assumed a lot about what I was saying. Nothing I said would affect moving the story forward from where it is.

 

[bacienvu88]

I think you misunderstood my position if you lump me in with other people's opinions here . I clearly said "the MC" in my post not "I". If I felt like it was self-insert I would have talked about it more in the first person. A lot of what I disagree with isn't the acts of the character doing what I wouldn't, it's more a character acting in a way that pulls me out of the story since it doesn't work. His character is too simple at times and then complex in other moments.

I also understand Alice is important to the story, my point is that she is bland and the reason the MC likes her is stupid. It would be better if there was more reasoning behind him liking her than that very bad first encounter. Love at first sight just doesn't fit the overall tone of the storytelling and is hard for the player to agree with in my opinion. Even just adding a more stable reason like having the scene where Alice takes you to the hospital be her introduction to her. So have MC get hurt somehow in the office, she happens to be involved and helps him. That encounter springs him towards this change. I don't need to like Alice, I just want a better reason for why MC likes her.

I never understand why every thread I write out my thoughts in about a game fans can't just make their points without throwing in stuff like "it's a game" or like you condescendingly trying to teach me or saying I'm complaining instead of just acknowledging my opinion and criticism may differ and stating yours in response. You completely missed my points and just assumed a lot about what I was saying. Nothing I said would affect moving the story forward from where it is.

But isn't it kind of the point that he actually doesn't have any reason to "love" Alice?

Edward strikes me as someone who when getting an idea pursues it with everything he has. Like how he ignored most everything while studying or when Elsa suggests he throws out the something he starts to throw out almost everything he has. So Alice feels like an idea he got and then he obsesses over how to achieve that.

 

[Pr0nmanreview]

But isn't it kind of the point that he actually doesn't have any reason to "love" Alice?

Edward strikes me as someone who when getting an idea pursues it with everything he has. Like how he ignored most everything while studying or when Elsa suggests he throws out the something he starts to throw out almost everything he has. So Alice feels like an idea he got and then he obsesses over how to achieve that.

Well the way I feel and the point I'm making is that how he comes to obsess over her was weak. Love at first sight doesn't really work like that in reality, definitely not so in a story written very pessimistically and cynically. When people say they fell in love at first sight, it's more along the lines of meaning their first encounter. Something beyond looks drew them to be drawn in and feel smitten. All I'm saying is because we're not the MC, it's hard to engage with the idea of Alice when it's presented poorly. Maybe somehow that first encounter was meaningful to him, but as outsiders at least from my experience reading it, I didn't buy it. That's it, it's not even a hard criticism just feel the story is a bit shaky in how it starts out.

 

[bacienvu88]

Well the way I feel and the point I'm making is that how he comes to obsess over her was weak. Love at first sight doesn't really work like that in reality, definitely not so in a story written very pessimistically and cynically. When people say they fell in love at first sight, it's more along the lines of meaning their first encounter. Something beyond looks drew them to be drawn in and feel smitten. All I'm saying is because we're not the MC, it's hard to engage with the idea of Alice when it's presented poorly. Maybe somehow that first encounter was meaningful to him, but as outsiders at least from my experience reading it, I didn't buy it. That's it, it's not even a hard criticism just feel the story is a bit shaky in how it starts out.

My point is that what Edward feels isn't love at all. It is an obsession to have something he can't have. Just like a kid can obsess over wanting a specific toy and when they have it they throw it away after 5 minutes. "Love" is just how he rationalizes it to himself. The question is if he can convert his obsession into actual love.

Why do I say that it isn't actually love? Because Edward don't show much affection or other signs of love toward Alice. Just a desire to get her.

 

[Canto Forte]

MC can show affection .. usually that gets him friend zoned.
These games, even his friends, they are creeps and grabbers,
molestors to show they want a relationship, being mean so they do not get friendzoned.
Whenever MC got close to a girl, it meant her getting busy with other guys,
while for others it meant they were dreaming of getting back together.
Look at it from his perspective: he cared about elsa and she is being mean and disconsiderate,
mocking him and just using him like any other girl he ever cared about,
while also fantasizing of baging Alice, his Alice, the Alice who is friendzoning him.

 

[Pr0nmanreview]

My point is that what Edward feels isn't love at all. It is an obsession to have something he can't have. Just like a kid can obsess over wanting a specific toy and when they have it they throw it away after 5 minutes. "Love" is just how he rationalizes it to himself. The question is if he can convert his obsession into actual love.

Why do I say that it isn't actually love? Because Edward don't show much affection or other signs of love toward Alice. Just a desire to get her.

I think that's a fine interpretation and nothing I'm saying goes against that, the issue is is random obsession with her isn't based in anything and is sparked out of nowhere. The dude was on autopilot for years as a husk... all I'm saying is I don't really see what was so special about that encounter to him in comparison to the likely many other girls who have brushed past him over the years. I'm not suggesting it's real love he feels, or confused because that's how I view it. Just think how he was shocked back into reality could be told a little better. Nothing wrong with making Alice a little more appealing in the process.
If it's as simple as "She's the daughter of a guy he admires and symbolizes his ideal life that he wants" then fine, but show us that and use dialog that fits to better display that in the first chunk of the story.

 

[Canto Forte]

MC is still mute and deaf and blind to the girls around him he should pine for.
That happends all the time while he is stuck in aching mind games of his own making.

 

[Den187]

Speaking of Elsa's almost permanent strict face expression I remembered Melisandre from Game of Thrones. I like this feature of her in series and she seems sexy to me because of this.

Spoiler

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[Canto Forte]

With the crooked finger ornating her blowing face, no less.
The sighs of waiting your machinations to croak.

 

[6pak2go]

Some more fanart I did for SQWL. He asked that I post it. I know it's the wrong season, but here it is.

Spoiler: Elsa by the fire

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[Deleted member 5007364]

Very nice game. Just speedran two playthroughs.
Some thoughts:

- Humor is very well done. I chuckled at a lot of lines - Elsa's wit was amusing and then there were also funny non-dialogue moments (the bar fight scene, the meme credits playing on the TV after Edward shoos away the neighbor, Ed's -200IQ move to give himself a concussion so that he could have a reason to talk to Alice, etc.)
- I wasn't bothered by the lack of choices, however it was jarring when I explicitly tried to friend-zone the neighbor and yet in my next conversation on the couch with Elsa, Edward was boasting about how borrowing her car "almost got him laid". Well see the thing is I wasn't trying to get laid in the first place and deliberately chose every option to signal to the neighbor that I wasn't interested in a sexual relationship, but the game just railroads you into an attempted relationship regardless.
- Edward's "school shooter" moment where he physically drags Elsa into the file room seemed very incongruous with the rest of the game. I understand that this particular plot beat needed to happen in order for Elsa to subordinate him and set up their relations, but it just seemed very out of character, or maybe it's just the deranged facial expressions that make MC look like an alien.
- The flashback/roommates scene went on for so long and was so uniquely depressing that I have the sneaking suspicion that the dev actually experienced all of that IRL
- On my second playthrough I was reminded that the prologue scene is Ed explaining all of these events via a conversation with someone else in his home. This stranger is snarky and isn't aware of the circumstances of Alice's first encounter with Edward, so I think that implies Edward ends up with Elsa in the end? Which is a shame because I like Alice and would appreciate the ability to choose the LI
- Also on my second playthrough, I realized that Elsa was actually the girl being preyed on by a bigshot that you briefly pass by, who is in competition with your superior for the promotion. So her goals actually align with Edward's temporarily and she's not just, as she claims, taking pity, since by sabotaging (Emma? forgot her name) to fulfill Ed's childish dream of revenge, she will also indirectly aid her boss. This also explains that odd scene where she was suddenly super eager for Edward to give the report when he was thinking of otherwise calling it a day, and manipulated him by bringing up Alice to try to incentive him to keep pushing. Edward telling her Alice's predictions of what will happen should her father get pissed is confirmation that she can destroy Emma, and her brushing it off with banter and the apple means she's trying to shift Edward's focus away so that when everything goes sideways he won't immediately think of blaming her. She could also be playing a triple game given how she has contacts reaching up to another competitor and how she was already snooping around the files archive during her first week after waiting for almost everyone else to leave, but I'm not sure if that's a red herring.

 

[Tony_Soprano]

Some more fanart I did for SQWL. He asked that I post it. I know it's the wrong season, but here it is.

Spoiler: Elsa by the fire

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Good god, she is gorgeus!

 

[EndlessNights]

- Also on my second playthrough, I realized that Elsa was actually the girl being preyed on by a bigshot that you briefly pass by, who is in competition with your superior for the promotion. So her goals actually align with Edward's temporarily and she's not just, as she claims, taking pity, since by sabotaging (Emma? forgot her name) to fulfill Ed's childish dream of revenge, she will also indirectly aid her boss. This also explains that odd scene where she was suddenly super eager for Edward to give the report when he was thinking of otherwise calling it a day, and manipulated him by bringing up Alice to try to incentive him to keep pushing. Edward telling her Alice's predictions of what will happen should her father get pissed is confirmation that she can destroy Emma, and her brushing it off with banter and the apple means she's trying to shift Edward's focus away so that when everything goes sideways he won't immediately think of blaming her. She could also be playing a triple game given how she has contacts reaching up to another competitor and how she was already snooping around the files archive during her first week after waiting for almost everyone else to leave, but I'm not sure if that's a red herring.

Great post. We're thinking along similar lines here, and to me the question of whether Elsa or Emma is the more trustworthy one is one of the most interesting aspects of the game at the moment. Edward's hatred for Emma stems largely from something Elsa said: that Ms. Reid had appropriated Ed's previous report and presented it to the higher-ups as her own work. Elsa of course never said how she knew this. It sounded reasonable enough based on what we know of Emma's personality and the working environment of the company, but we have no proof beyond Elsa's word. Perhaps she does indeed have some inside source like Neil who is feeding her accurate intel, but she also may have just made it up just to create tension between Edward and Emma because that suited her interests. The meeting between Edward and Emma in the last update was really interesting I thought. She essentially is taking Edward under her wing by working directly with her and promising him opportunities to advance. Of course, Emma being Emma there were threats thrown around the same time, but I thought her offer was a really good one and basically just the sort of thing Ed has been waiting for to supercharge his career. Yes, Emma could still screw Edward over, but I'm not sure why she would want to...if she and Edward are truly to be allies and she truly appreciates his work, it makes sense she'd want him to rise through the ranks and gain power. It would ultimately benefit her, after all. She strikes me as a tough, no-nonsense, and extremely focused sort of woman, but not necessarily a fundamentally cruel or sadistic person.

We have no idea whether Elsa engaged in some fuckery with the report she was holding hostage. I'm worried she made some alterations that will end up making Emma look bad/corrupt/incompetent which will also blow back on Ed. I was hoping our hapless protagonist would have the chance to look over the report one more time before submitting it (and perhaps bring any discovered scheme to Emma's attention to further their alliance), but of course Elsa made sure he'd have no time to do that. As always, Ed is left to trust Elsa blindly and let himself be carried wherever she wills it. He certainly should have submitted the report on his own when Elsa didn't get back to him promptly or even better not let her have it in the first place. If worse does come to worst, I suppose Elsa will be able to convince Neil or whoever she's working with to let Edward keep his job or get him a new job. I'm no Elsa fan, but even I would still expect her to do at least that much no matter what she's scheming based on her muddled sense of loyalty. Personally, I'd rather rise with Emma on my own merits than wait around for Elsa's scraps, but I'm not sure Edward would feel the same. Maybe he's getting there.

 

[EndlessNights]

My favorite thing about Corporate Culture is definitely the characters. Even the ones you expect to be stock or stereotypical tend to have some depth to them that makes them interesting and unique. Above all else, they are all deeply human in both their strengths and weaknesses. I plan to write my thoughts down concerning most members of CC's memorable cast over a number of lengthy posts. Let's start with the girl who gets most of the attention around here.

Elsa, the Fan Favorite:

Elsa and Edward's tale is a sensitive retelling of a familiar story: boy meets girl, boy and girl quickly become quirky workplace buddies, boy and girl do each other a good turn, girl calls boy a princess, girl demands total submission from boy, girl runs away with boy's work product, and girl ignores and deflects almost all questions from boy about her behavior. I take trying to keep Elsa and Edward as far apart as possible as my primary responsibility as a player of this game, but I totally get why she's such a popular character. She's a truly singular personality who drives us mad but fascinates us at the same time. Her motives forever remain mysterious, but we love to wonder what she's thinking and to try to predict what she'll do next.

As interesting as Elsa is, I think I'll always oppose her getting together with Edward. I just don't think it's a good idea for a person who has serious mental health issues to get involved with an emotionally abusive person. Elsa says it's hard for her to be mean or use a "child" like Edward, but she spends most of the game using or attacking our hapless protagonist. She says it's all for Eddie's own good, but I see her as continually chipping away at our MC's already fragile self-esteem. If she ultimately succeeds in her little remake project without driving her guinea pig to suicide or a downward spiral of self-harm, what will she have in the end created? Just another person who spends all his time obsessed with work, money, and status? Edward's efforts to reinvent himself and find a deeper meaning in life are commendable. I hope they don't end up leading him down a path just as empty as what Elsa seems to have laid out for herself.

I used to see exactly one path that could lead to an Edward and Elsa romance that I could accept. That's one that would allow us to see what's wrong with Elsa and why she became the way she is. We'd have to see her as someone who is as broken as Edward and someone who needs remaking and reinventing just as much as he does. The meaner and more cynical and more devious she seems to become the harder it is for me to imagine a scenario like that. To be honest, even if Elsa does change herself I think I'd still want to see Ed with someone who has treated him nicer along the journey.