Honestly if we could I would also like that you could choose forsaken cloth as well for parasite, but that's a little unnecessary fluff I guess. The cloth system is really nice, but man I really wish we had a go back tab or if we could use <- and -> on keyboard as keybinds since u cant spam click since u might go over or the -> moves cuz the words are too long or smaller causing it to be placed elsewhere.
Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 54] [CSDev]
Honestly I dont really use forsaken, but I try to use temptation one with low EE sometimes that have the option to increase their bonus damage by hypnosis and stuff so they scale. I avoid rampage since they're a hastle. I dont really see a benefit tbh to forsaken as your commander is usually just more useful. Maybe super late, honestly they slightly need a rework. Though someone correct me if someone elses uses them.
General goals of training a Forsaken-- (not exclusive but you won't have every goal for every Forsaken)
1) If they're too expensive, raise their Disgrace until they cost a more reasonable amount.
2) Increase expertise to change their damage types or make them more effective with the damage types they have.
3) Increase their Corruption stats so they can use the correct Defilers/be in the right Punisher positions.
Really, though, a Forsaken is a whole package, and you should be thinking about how to use them (and whether or not they're usable) right around the time that you get Psychic Reading and you can view what all three of the Chosen's Punishers might be.
Your Demon Commander is a well-used, sharpened chef's knife, suitable for many kitchen tasks. Well-built Forsaken are your specialty tools--an apple slicer, a cheese grater, an electric blender--that perform one task extraordinarily well.
Forsaken are absolutely essential when you start seeing real damage mitigation (above 30%), loops lasting 30 days or fewer, and extremely high levels of luxuries. Before that point, they're definitely useful but not necessary, but after a certain point a Demon Commander no longer stacks enough damage to make progress at the usual points in a loop. So, it's good to get some practice in thinking about how Forsaken are useful and how to build Forsaken that themselves build stronger Forsaken.
Basically building a Forsaken is just like everything else in this game--stack damage multipliers on it and it gets better. Bigger multipliers=even better. Some sources of multipliers to damage:
1) Distortions give +50% circumstance damage to the two stats that required a T2 break for that Distortion (and can be even stronger on advanced species Chosen)
2) Other Forsaken can have Punisher bonuses that increase the circumstance or trauma damage of Forsaken that they Total Break.
3) The Forsaken herself can have a Punisher bonus that makes her deal more damage as she performs more Total Breaks
4) High Expertise gives a bonus as well as determining the type of damage dealt by the Forsaken.
The more multipliers you get, and the bigger those multipliers are, the better the Forsaken. I like to use low-cost Undead focused on dealing all one Circumstance to get quick, low-cost T2 breaks (4EE target cost at 60 Disgrace, one per Circumstance), a few medium-cost Animalistic (target: 60-70 Disgrace for a cost between 16 and 32EE) focused on dealing two Circumstances for setting up difficult T3 breaks or Distortions, and a host of extremely costly Forsaken (> 100 EE) that provide all kinds of useful high level Punisher bonuses to add benefits to any Chosen that looks promising. Also, a few others
If you want to see specifics, check here where I go through the whole decision tree for a baby-ass Forsaken: Link to post
If you look at some of my posts on the next page after that, you can see some of the more interesting Forsaken I've stumbled across or made, in my first long run.
Last edited:
Further continuing my Guide post from here, now with Stage 3.
With that in mind, I'm going to focus this section on one particular strategy for quickly setting up multiple T3 breaks at once on every Chosen, which blows through this Stage in theoretically as little as 1 turn. You don't have to do it this way; it's perfectly viable to break 1-3 T3 Vulnerabilities at a time instead. But this is an extremely powerful strategy that becomes more complicated to execute if you break certain T3s first, so I think it's worth a dedicated section.
What we're aiming for is very specifically a Commander with 3 Captures and the ability to deal damage to 3 damage types - I tend to exclude PLEA, but it will sometimes be better to drop HATE or even INJU (EXPO is probably mandatory, but admittedly I haven't experimented much). This requires Synthesis and Determination (plus some pre-reqs). Unless you got a large chunk of 1-time EE from a T3 Core Break rivalry event or by achieving a Distortion that grants 100EE, you will probably have to burn some turns gathering EE to make this happen even after you finish all T2 breaks.
You don't even need Intelligence or Vengeful Reconstitution here, much less Networked Consciousness - 4 turns should be plenty. All you really have to do is buy a 4-3 triple damage commander, hit each Chosen once with it before Extermination ends, and then put them all in a 10+ turn Orgy. Long orgies have an extremely effective positive feedback loop for all types of damage, and just running one can potentially push all the Chosen into high enough Trauma to unlock every T3 break.
So let's quickly get into the guide playthrough:
D16: Today, we do... nothing. We need 77 EE to set up the Commander explained above from our current upgrade levels. It's worth wasting two days here.
D17: Nothing again!
D18: At 81 EE, this is the big turn. We buy Determination and Synthesis, along with their prerequisites for 51 EE, then spend 26 EE on our Commander, and ambush Void. She's got the lowest overall resistance to HATE/INJU/EXPO, and she's the one who misses out on EXPO levels from other Chosen raising them. It's plausible she's not the optimal target, but she's good enough.
After this battle, every Chosen's ANGST bonus is up to +55 base damage, all T3 actions will be unlocked over the next few turns, and they should be pinned to their maximum EE actions based on their break level for the rest of the game. We're now extremely well set up for P4, where the gameplay transforms from being about hitting them harder to letting them hit you as hard as possible.
Okay, so, Stage 3. To be honest, this is probably the part of the game which least deserves to be called its own stage - At the front end, you can find some success using the same tactics as in late Stage 2, and are working towards a similar kind of corruption goal, where the main point is to pile on the Chosen in a single battle. Towards the back end, you're dealing with the challenges that I'll mostly be discussing in Stage 4 - namely, the T3 adaptation actions, which transform gameplay significantly.
With that in mind, I'm going to focus this section on one particular strategy for quickly setting up multiple T3 breaks at once on every Chosen, which blows through this Stage in theoretically as little as 1 turn. You don't have to do it this way; it's perfectly viable to break 1-3 T3 Vulnerabilities at a time instead. But this is an extremely powerful strategy that becomes more complicated to execute if you break certain T3s first, so I think it's worth a dedicated section.
What we're aiming for is very specifically a Commander with 3 Captures and the ability to deal damage to 3 damage types - I tend to exclude PLEA, but it will sometimes be better to drop HATE or even INJU (EXPO is probably mandatory, but admittedly I haven't experimented much). This requires Synthesis and Determination (plus some pre-reqs). Unless you got a large chunk of 1-time EE from a T3 Core Break rivalry event or by achieving a Distortion that grants 100EE, you will probably have to burn some turns gathering EE to make this happen even after you finish all T2 breaks.
You don't even need Intelligence or Vengeful Reconstitution here, much less Networked Consciousness - 4 turns should be plenty. All you really have to do is buy a 4-3 triple damage commander, hit each Chosen once with it before Extermination ends, and then put them all in a 10+ turn Orgy. Long orgies have an extremely effective positive feedback loop for all types of damage, and just running one can potentially push all the Chosen into high enough Trauma to unlock every T3 break.
So let's quickly get into the guide playthrough:
D16: Today, we do... nothing. We need 77 EE to set up the Commander explained above from our current upgrade levels. It's worth wasting two days here.
D17: Nothing again!
D18: At 81 EE, this is the big turn. We buy Determination and Synthesis, along with their prerequisites for 51 EE, then spend 26 EE on our Commander, and ambush Void. She's got the lowest overall resistance to HATE/INJU/EXPO, and she's the one who misses out on EXPO levels from other Chosen raising them. It's plausible she's not the optimal target, but she's good enough.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
After this battle, every Chosen's ANGST bonus is up to +55 base damage, all T3 actions will be unlocked over the next few turns, and they should be pinned to their maximum EE actions based on their break level for the rest of the game. We're now extremely well set up for P4, where the gameplay transforms from being about hitting them harder to letting them hit you as hard as possible.
I also think something seems off with Greater sins imminent. 3 Chosen all at e16 Trauma in every stat and each with a Total Break should not be doing 45EE group downtime actions. If I skip the next turn, Void does a 50EE action and the other two do a group 30EE action. Same if I skip another. Only after skipping a third time do I get 50 EE each.
They have no T4 action that they can do together because they share no T4 breaks. Break Axiom's T4 MOR and they will start destroying military bases together.
Axiom can only do the DIG T4 Action while Void and Freedom can only do the MOR T4 Action, so when doing 3 person group actions they have to drop down to a T3 action. The next day they do different actions, likely because the trauma resolution changes the distribution enough where Void decides to go solo allowing her to do her T4, same happens on the next day where the trauma distribution likely settles in a way where they all decide to go solo to do their highest tier resolution activity.
That doesn't seem right. They all have such colossal Trauma numbers, the Trauma resolution is a tiny drop in an enormous bucket - after 1 skip, none of their Traumas even have the third digit change, much less change rank order. The distribution, as far as is visible to the player, is exactly identical. Also, Void has an Unbreakable Friendship with the other two, who are Bitter Enemies with each other, yet they're doing group actions without her despite both having higher tier solo actions, which is just weird. I guess it's a Rivalry-flavored action (I have no idea if it's actually any different under the hood than if it was a friendly action, the game is weirdly opaque about this), but still, it's strange to me.
I also double checked, and after 2 turns of the above, Void and Freedom start doing group MOR actions and Axiom does solo DIG, as I expected them to do from the beginning. *none* of their rank orders for Trauma changed at all in that process, the only visible change is Void going from 15.3P FEAR to 15.2P FEAR. I have no idea what's changing their priorities, but it doesn't look like it's Trauma resolution. I kind of wonder if something is broken about Trauma above 10P in particular. It seems like it's a softcap, but predicting how Traumas will increase when going above it in battle seems like a bit of a crapshoot.
To give a little feedback, it feels *terrible* to have so much EE lost to such an opaque system. It should either be the case that having all Chosen on the same max tier of Break guarantees they'll do actions of that tier, or that we have much more in-game insight into the numbers controlling downtime actions, because it feels really inconsistent from my perspective.
I also double checked, and after 2 turns of the above, Void and Freedom start doing group MOR actions and Axiom does solo DIG, as I expected them to do from the beginning. *none* of their rank orders for Trauma changed at all in that process, the only visible change is Void going from 15.3P FEAR to 15.2P FEAR. I have no idea what's changing their priorities, but it doesn't look like it's Trauma resolution. I kind of wonder if something is broken about Trauma above 10P in particular. It seems like it's a softcap, but predicting how Traumas will increase when going above it in battle seems like a bit of a crapshoot.
To give a little feedback, it feels *terrible* to have so much EE lost to such an opaque system. It should either be the case that having all Chosen on the same max tier of Break guarantees they'll do actions of that tier, or that we have much more in-game insight into the numbers controlling downtime actions, because it feels really inconsistent from my perspective.
I think its because of their friendship also though. I do agree it is slightly annoying. I find it easier to make them enemies for more EE and for this issue and then fix them with friendship after.
Last edited:
"Eager Partner" Forsaken Distortion trait becomes "Eager Partner (Feral Heart)"
Retains bonuses even at 40% Obedience and above
However, while at 40% Obedience and above, loses 1% Obedience and 50% Motivation when left idle
Isnt this just straight up not useful compare to the other 3 distortions? Also don't you lose the 1/4 cost so its even worse? The other 3 are at least interesting, this doesn't actually even provide anything, I'd argue this is just a nerf even. Honestly just comparing animalistic to undead isnt undead just way better?
Retains bonuses even at 40% Obedience and above
However, while at 40% Obedience and above, loses 1% Obedience and 50% Motivation when left idle
Isnt this just straight up not useful compare to the other 3 distortions? Also don't you lose the 1/4 cost so its even worse? The other 3 are at least interesting, this doesn't actually even provide anything, I'd argue this is just a nerf even. Honestly just comparing animalistic to undead isnt undead just way better?
Last edited:
"Retain bonuses above 40% obedience" - They will have the bonus at +40% obedience which are lost by other tempted forsaken at high obedience. Though obedience only affects stamina regen (High obedience->Low regen) and Consent modifiers(High obedience->Easy consent) from what I know. I agree that some forsaken get easily overshadowed by others, atleast in my opinion.
Honestly I don't know how to use forsaken properly myself. I just make sure to get a few 1000% forsakens with specific distortions at low costs for some specific breaks(Especially for breaking Animalistic chosens). Other than that I use the "Self +200% trauma" trait forsaken to get a Inju/Expo damage forsaken for early Days(Preferably undead)
Temptated Undead are the best imo, you can spam them with their low motivation and energy cost + Stamina restoration with trauma damage. Train them to be wild(Inju+Expo DMG) then add a bit of pleasure expertise. In battle you can use them to get lvl2/3 inju/expo then change to tempt style for pleasure damage.
Even got lucky in my current run and got a "Victim +840% trauma damage as forsaken" punisher, now waiting for a "self 200%Trauma increasing" undead to appear so I can stack unreasonable amount of trauma damage.
I was wondering, can item choice be made seperate from city choice? Or Maybe add a swap item option for every item choice?
Sometimes the item I want to choose and the chosen I want to face are not in the same city which is kinda annoying.
Sometimes the item I want to choose and the chosen I want to face are not in the same city which is kinda annoying.
Item choice isn't random, it's based on the difficulty of the cities you face, so you cant disconnect item and city choice as iirc the difficulty of the city has some influence on what item is picked for it.
There's no reason that CSDev couldn't do this, but to be honest I prefer making some tough choices every now and again, and it does seem reasonable that these would be a "complete package" as it were.
There's also the issue that that would change the Influence around, and some choices that result in very low Influence could go negative with different items, and while that wouldn't exactly break the game or anything (I think) it would mean that people aren't playing at the intended power level and be ugly in a way most people would rather not see or deal with.
I certainly wouldn't want to stake anything important on saying "this section of code is working as intended and bug-free". Reading this section from the .jar file made my eyes glaze over, but I tried to untangle it as much as I could in my post on the subject. And I don't plan to do that again. Every downtime action is on its own indent level. But what is clear from my viewpoint is:
1) The largest difference between traumas for a single Chosen is less than 25%, so there is not a strong preference for relieving any particular Trauma. Most of the Traumas differ by less than 10% (this isn't a threshold or anything, it's just saying that they basically won't send each other a signal saying, "No, I really need to resolve PAIN instead"
2) They have no T4 activities available to do together, so if their weighting determines that they need to do an action together, that action will be a T3 action.
It is entirely possible that there is a bug in the code for this function that deals with numbers being above this game's maximum and the associated multiplier code (because that's written separately into just about every function instead of being handled on a global level in its own function) but I'm not going to piece together uncommented code to try to find it.
Last edited:
Yah thats what I thought on undead. I was trying for loop 5 the distortion before anyone else 3. It was fun little challenge
I see, I thought it was random. I think it's fine to keep it that way if it's based around influence.
Though the choice I had was between Non superior/Superior city(Loop 3) and I had to do leave a superior chosen because of it.
Hmm. So uhh. Are the alternate skip loops somehow broken? I have the option for Loop 5 as I did the animalistic distortion before t3. However, my screen is kind of frozen. Any ideas?
Edit: Just super long loading time then it loaded (HOWEVER)
There is a bug, the loop doesn't exist. I think the update 49b-d one of it messed something up as I tried a fresh 49 download of game and the sprawling slums was there this time. Idk if anyone can message CSDev for a later hotfix in future.
Edit: Just super long loading time then it loaded (HOWEVER)
There is a bug, the loop doesn't exist. I think the update 49b-d one of it messed something up as I tried a fresh 49 download of game and the sprawling slums was there this time. Idk if anyone can message CSDev for a later hotfix in future.
Last edited:
Thank you, great explanation (as far as I can tell because I haven't tried it out yet).
Follow up question:
What stats matter for a trainer?
If you mean trainer as in the position, then too my knowledge the stats of the trainer Forsaken don't effect anything, the only thing that matters is the stats of the Forsaken receiving training, specifically their Deviancy. As for how much Deviancy you want on the Forsaken receiving training... ideally as little as possible, Deviancy is the one corruption stat that has exclusively negative effects (the only thing it does is decrease their expertise gain), so if the Forsaken is used for INN Breaking then you want 50 Deviancy so you can use the Defiler/Punisher, otherwise avoid raising Deviancy if you can help it.