Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]

[MoarDakka123]

Update out!

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[Celerarity]

So much of the things people ask for explanations on over and over are contained in the guides that come with the game.

 

[McHuman]

Edit:
View attachment 2969435
So can someone explain this to me or is it just fucking luck as to if it will or will not break? Because I cannot for the life of me get it to trigger. I've done it with Humiliate, I've it with Broadcast, I've done it with Tempt, a defiler... Hell, I got frustrated enough that at one point, I broke out cheat engine, cranked it up to a fucking 25+ turns for each chosen, all of them with humiliate running, then put the specified chosen into humiliate, broadcast, and tempt.... Fucking nothing has worked.

I really do enjoy this game, but it is sincerely stupid how little information you are actually given and how fucking random it can feel at times as to if something will or will not work.

"Deal EXPO damage while others are surrounded" Does it have to be a specific source? Does it have to be SURROUNDED only and not in defiler actions? What the fuck does that mean?! Because I've done exactly what it said on the tin, Developer, and fucking nothing happened. Is 25 turns worth of humiliate or broadcast not fucking enough EXPO damage?

The T3 adaptation ability is Striptease which requires the Chosen to not be surrounded, so to do the T3 break you need to first capture that Chosen, deal a few levels of EXPO damage, then have the other Chosen captured while the one you want to T3 break isn't surrounded so that she's free to use Striptease.

 

[McHuman]

So much of the things people ask for explanations on over and over are contained in the guides that come with the game.

To be fair, the guide text file doesn't actually explain how to perform the T3 break, it only explains the trauma requirement and what the associated Adaptation ability does without explaining what conditions the Adaptation is used under. So for the Dignity T3 break it's not actually obvious that the Adaptation is only usable while not surrounded, especially considering all the T1 Adaptations require being surrounded to use.

 

[Madeni]

So much of the things people ask for explanations on over and over are contained in the guides that come with the game.

I think most people (like me) didn't realise there was a guide in the files
It's only after people pointed it out to me that I saw it

That's info that could be highlighted on the front page of this thread I think
It would help people get into the game more easily

 

[Madeni]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm shit at the game, so maybe not the best to give tips but I think I have the basics down.

It all comes down to doing damage in 2 stages. The first stage is to get to various breakpoints (100, 1000, 10000 etc) with any of the 4 vulnerabilities. Then surround the girl and attack the other 4 vulnerabilities. Both sets of vulnerabilities are linked.
On first day, try and get one of their vulnerabilities to at least 100 so that you can start earning EE's at the end of the fight. With the first EE buy Psychic Reading. You can then click in the info button and select the girls profile. See an example profile below :-

View attachment 2967319

So the vertical lines | split the stages, and the amount of dashes show how much damage you do. In the example above the 2nd line shows that you do a lot of damage in the Innocence tree before surrounding them, then absolute crap after. However the 3rd line for confidence shows almost the exact opposite.

One other thing to note about damage done to the stages after surrounding is that unlike the damage you do before surrounding, this carries on until they are no longer surrounded. Example - you surround someone for 6 turns. On the first turn you do damage against EXPO. That damage will continue to be done until the 6th turn. But if you then do PLEA/HATE/INJU on the 2nd/3rd/4th turns then INJU will only take 3 turns of damage (the 4th/5th/6th turns). This is the main way of getting silly numbers, try and keep them surrounded for as many turns as possible so your surround damage gets applied automatically while you can attack other girls.

Now for the bit I'm crap at (please someone else chime in). With the damage you do after surrounding, you are trying to get to breakpoints with that. If you can get them to 100 or 1000 then you get multipliers which apply to the 1st stage damage. So again using the 3rd line which is the Confidence tree if I can get INJU(ry) to 100 then I get a x2 multiplier which applies to any PAIN damage in the subsequent rounds. Get it to 1000 and I get a x4 multiplier. And some multipliers that you do to girl A will also be applied to Girl B and C (which is the bit i'm rubbish at).

That's the basics I think. Watch me get shot down in flames now for talking a load of shite

To explain some for commanders and stats, this is the explanation for the stats from the guide:

HATE: x2 all damage per level, or x4 for FEAR
PLEA: x4 all traumas per level, or x8 for DISG
INJU: x3 all circumstances per level, also x2 PAIN
EXPO: x2 all ally circumstance damage per level, also x2 own SHAM

FEAR/DISG/PAIN/SHAM are the types of Trauma damage, while HATE/PLEA/INJU/EXPO are the types of Circumstance damage. Trauma damage is caused by your default 4 attacks called Trauma attacks (Threaten, Slime, Attack, and Taunt which are associated with FEAR, DISG, PAIN, and SHAM respectively), while Circumstance damage is caused by the 4 Circumstance attacks used during a surround (Grind, Caress, Pummel, and Humiliate for HATE/PLEA/INJU/EXPO respectively), as a note Circumstance attacks only need to be used once per surround, they also do damage to all Traumas.

As for the meaning of those above modifiers, they multiply the damage done to stats by the listed modifier times the level of the Circumstance (so for HATE, it would by Level x 2 = modifier, for example level 3 hate would by 3 x 2 = x6 modifier), all Circumstances will give a bonus modifier to their associated Trauma (HATE/FEAR, PLEA/DISG, INJU/PAIN, EXPO/SHAM). HATE will add its modifier to every stat, PLEA will only add its modifier to Trauma stats, INJU will only add it to Circumstance stats, and EXPO will only add its modifier to the Chosen's own SHAM stat and every stat for every Chosen except for herself.

It should noted however that there are negative modifiers, the two big ones to worry about early on are related to Trauma and Circumstance levels. The Trauma based negative modifier is "0.5 / (Trauma level - lowest Trauma level)" applied to the Trauma's associated Circumstance, so for example say FEAR is level 2 and DISG is level 0 then the modifier would by "0.5/2" which is a 0.25 (1/4) modifier applied to HATE, this also means you can get rid of the modifier by having every Trauma at the same level. The Circumstance based negative modifier is just "0.5 / highest Circumstance level)" applied to every Circumstance, so say your highest is HATE at 3 then that would apply a 1/8 modifier to every Circumstance, regardless of the level of the others.

There are other positive/negative modifiers but those are really the most broadly relevant. The post T3 break Adaptation abilities the Chosen get can add negative modifiers as well (Fantasize decreasing trauma damage by 1/10 per PLEA level and Strip Tease halves damage to surrounded Chosen for a number of turns equal to EXPO level), defiler+ actions and orgies can add temporary positive modifiers, and things like that.

So... what does this mean for strategy? Well early on when you just have the 4-2 or 5-2 Commander you'll want to focus a single Chosen per fight, with how quick early fights are you'll realistically only get 3 captures on the first Chosen and 2 on the second, so you'll probably not be doing much to the second Chosen. So as I went through in previous mentioned guide, you'll want to use the Commander to make these attacks in order, Grind/Pummel (chose based on if they're weaker to HATE or INJU), Caress, Grind/Pummel (based on which they're stronger to), then Humiliate. For the second Chosen you'll be doing the same thing except replacing Caress with Humiliate and then not doing Caress at all, then before the second Chosen escapes recapture the first Chosen.

Now, why do we do this? Grind, Pummel and Caress work together to build up more surround rounds due to their modifiers, we do it in this order because it's (in my experience) the most effective way to do damage in 4 turns, this only falls through if you have a Chosen very strong vs PLEA damage at which point just use Caress last instead. We don't bother with Caress on the second Chosen because really the only thing you want out of the second Chosen is EXPO levels to stack more modifiers onto the first Chosen, 4 turns even without PLEA levels is enough to create enough Openings to surround them a second, as for why we only do 3 attacks instead of 4 on the second Chosen, this is really only relevant for 4-2 Commanders but it's so that you can surround the first Chosen again while the second Chosen is still surrounded so you can take advantage of the FEAR Openings. This strategy is broadly what you carry going forward, focus on raising HATE, PLEA, and INJU for larger surrounds with some EXPO raising for bonus damage to other Chosen, the only change is once you get Networked Consciousness you'll want to use all four attacks on the second Chosen as she'll still be surrounded by then even with a 4-2 Commander.

What are Openings? If you already understand this you can probably skip this. Each level of a Trauma increases Openings which are used for surrounding Chosen, with a Chosen needing "1 + (2 x number of times surrounded)" Openings to be surrounded. Each Trauma stat give openings in different ways:
FEAR: Only provides its Openings while another Chosen is surrounded.
DISG: Can only provide up to half the necessary Openings rounded down to a minimum of 1.
PAIN: Openings provided equal to "current PAIN level - PAIN level going into previous surround"
SHAM: Only provides its Opening when the Chosen already has enough Openings to be surrounded.


As for you questions in the Edit:

Sodomize, like all Defiler actions, require level 3 in the Circumstance, so Sodomize requires level 3/10k damage in INJU. If you did have level 3 INJU and still couldn't use it then either you were already using another defiler action (outside of having one specific item, you can only use a single defiler per surround), or you had a bug.

As for the lack of explanations, like I said in my other reply, read the "guide.txt" document in the main folder, it explains a lot of useful information, such as what each Distortion is.

As for "Or like "How would you like to act ? => Position"" I'll need context on what situation you saw this under as I'm not sure what this is from. I think you might be referring to using approach on a Chosen in between days (though the message there is "How will the Demon Lord act"), in which case there's not much explanation there because approach is entirely pointless, it's entirely just there as fluff 99% of the time, its only use is as part of the Negotiation Distortion, and even then all that matters is you hit the Negotiate button.

Thank you both for those messages
I'm not used to H-games asking me to think this much about what I'm doing haha

I think I'll restart fresh on a new campaign and see where that lands

 

[Chekhovs_Ghost]

It's great that rosters and suntorn dawn is working again in the new version. I'm working on editing each character to have appropriately clothes descriptions.


These parts don't seem editable in the new version. Maybe because I chose to make her barefoot?

 

[McHuman]

It's great that rosters and suntorn dawn is working again in the new version. I'm working on editing each character to have appropriately clothes descriptions.

View attachment 2970646
These parts don't seem editable in the new version. Maybe because I chose to make her barefoot?

Footwear can be edited where all other clothes are, if she wasn't suppose to have shoes then you should go in and make sure shoes weren't added in the clothing editor part of the cosmetic menu, if they haven't then make a pair of shoes and save the change then go back in and delete the shoes. Energy however is incapable of being edited, and while you weren't asking about it you can only half edit Weapon, as while you can designate a single item as Weapon when you make it, you cant tell the game how the weapon functions (melee/ranged/thrown/body part/etc) as far as I can tell.

 

[Chekhovs_Ghost]

Footwear can be edited where all other clothes are, if she wasn't suppose to have shoes then you should go in and make sure shoes weren't added in the clothing editor part of the cosmetic menu, if they haven't then make a pair of shoes and save the change then go back in and delete the shoes. Energy however is incapable of being edited, and while you weren't asking about it you can only half edit Weapon, as while you can designate a single item as Weapon when you make it, you cant tell the game how the weapon functions (melee/ranged/thrown/body part/etc) as far as I can tell.

Thanks for the suggestion. The image I posted is one where I remade the cosmetics from scratch in the new system. I didn't include shoes and it reported the overall view of her being barefoot.

But of course I'm working with a bit of a mixed bag, where I'm loading in an old version roster and then creating the cosmetics from scratch according to the new system, so it's kinda understandable there's some legacy code that gets loaded in and not function exactly as intended.

 

[McHuman]

Thanks for the suggestion. The image I posted is one where I remade the cosmetics from scratch in the new system. I didn't include shoes and it reported the overall view of her being barefoot.

But of course I'm working with a bit of a mixed bag, where I'm loading in an old version roster and then creating the cosmetics from scratch according to the new system, so it's kinda understandable there's some legacy code that gets loaded in and not function exactly as intended.

View attachment 2970767

Ah rip then, to be fair though it doesn't actually matter since as annoying as it is to see her being listed as wearing shoes when she doesn't actually, I don't think that list of information is actually used anywhere aside from when editing the Chosen. During a battle the game likely draws from the actual outfit editor information in that screenshot, and not that little summary which just lists chest, crotch, underwear and footwear. So since she doesn't have shoes listed in the outfit editor it'd likely recognize her as barefoot, especially since the auto-generated transformation description explicitly says she's barefoot.

I would say just start a game with cheats and do a surround increasing her EXPO levels to see if shoes are ever mentioned, but unfortunately as far as I'm aware there is no way to force a certain Chosen into a loop and constantly restarting a game to try to get her to spawn would take forever.

 

[MoarDakka123]

Typo in the custom sex scenes in the new update, "Exmaine".

 

[Antivash]

So much of the things people ask for explanations on over and over are contained in the guides that come with the game.

It is most certainly not. It explains the concept of how its intended to work but it in no way, shape or form explains this:

So for the Dignity T3 break it's not actually obvious that the Adaptation is only usable while not surrounded, especially considering all the T1 Adaptations require being surrounded to use.

These are the only ones that are in any way helpful or unambiguous.



Innocent's "Deal High PLEA damage" and Dignity's "Deal EXPO damage while others are surrounded" are complete garbage and the guide does nothing to clarify anything. What, exactly, does high PLEA mean? Do I need to use Forced Orgasm? Caress? How about Inseminate, that does hate and pleasure damage according to the guide, does that count? If the actual trigger for breaking T3 dignity is the chosen using Striptease, then the in game description is garbage and should be replaced with "Force to use Striptease" or something like that. Because as it stands, it makes it sound like you need to actively do something to the chosen, and not just wait until they use striptease. Being intentionally ambiguous with story elements is fine, but when it comes to communicating how mechanics function, its not. Its garbage game design and/or communication.

TL;DR: The "guide" is really only useful if you want to understand the theory and not the practical. And that makes it kind of useless when you are confronted with ambiguous nonsense like "Deal EXPO damage while others are surrounded". Quoting Yogi Berra: "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

On an unrelated note: Are the requirements in the vignette checklist hard limits or can they trigger outside of them?

[ ] Guilty Service
One subject with Morality as Core Vulnerability
Subject must have T1 Innocence Break, T1 Confidence Break, and 100k unresolved SHAM

Like can this one trigger after T2 innocent breaks or higher SHAM levels?

 

[McHuman]

It is most certainly not. It explains the concept of how its intended to work but it in no way, shape or form explains this:

These are the only ones that are in any way helpful or unambiguous.
View attachment 2971241
View attachment 2971242

Innocent's "Deal High PLEA damage" and Dignity's "Deal EXPO damage while others are surrounded" are complete garbage and the guide does nothing to clarify anything. What, exactly, does high PLEA mean? Do I need to use Forced Orgasm? Caress? How about Inseminate, that does hate and pleasure damage according to the guide, does that count? If the actual trigger for breaking T3 dignity is the chosen using Striptease, then the in game description is garbage and should be replaced with "Force to use Striptease" or something like that. Because as it stands, it makes it sound like you need to actively do something to the chosen, and not just wait until they use striptease. Being intentionally ambiguous with story elements is fine, but when it comes to communicating how mechanics function, its not. Its garbage game design and/or communication.

TL;DR: The "guide" is really only useful if you want to understand the theory and not the practical. And that makes it kind of useless when you are confronted with ambiguous nonsense like "Deal EXPO damage while others are surrounded". Quoting Yogi Berra: "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

On an unrelated note: Are the requirements in the vignette checklist hard limits or can they trigger outside of them?


Like can this one trigger after T2 innocent breaks or higher SHAM levels?

Yeah, Innocence and and Dignity's are really bad. Honestly I'm not even sure on the strict requirement for them either. I think you need to get them to hit either level 2 or 3 in the circumstance and then they automatically used the associated Adaptation when its available, but I'm not certain. Though to be fair, the current descriptions are better than just saying "get the Chosen to use X Adaptation" considering newer players likely wouldn't even know what those are, and a lot of people don't read the guide. They're not good don't get me wrong, but they're better than just saying to have the Chosen use an ability the player hasn't seen yet and doesn't know about.

As for vignettes, I'm not sure but I want to say that unless the vignette specifically says they can't have a certain break (for example, Blackmailed requires not having broken T2 Dignity), then the listed requirements are just minimum. Cause while I might be wrong, I swear I've gotten the vignettes that only require a T1 break while having higher breaks in the vulnerability.

 

[Madeni]

It is most certainly not. It explains the concept of how its intended to work but it in no way, shape or form explains this:

These are the only ones that are in any way helpful or unambiguous.
View attachment 2971241
View attachment 2971242

Innocent's "Deal High PLEA damage" and Dignity's "Deal EXPO damage while others are surrounded" are complete garbage and the guide does nothing to clarify anything. What, exactly, does high PLEA mean? Do I need to use Forced Orgasm? Caress? How about Inseminate, that does hate and pleasure damage according to the guide, does that count? If the actual trigger for breaking T3 dignity is the chosen using Striptease, then the in game description is garbage and should be replaced with "Force to use Striptease" or something like that. Because as it stands, it makes it sound like you need to actively do something to the chosen, and not just wait until they use striptease. Being intentionally ambiguous with story elements is fine, but when it comes to communicating how mechanics function, its not. Its garbage game design and/or communication.

TL;DR: The "guide" is really only useful if you want to understand the theory and not the practical. And that makes it kind of useless when you are confronted with ambiguous nonsense like "Deal EXPO damage while others are surrounded". Quoting Yogi Berra: "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

On an unrelated note: Are the requirements in the vignette checklist hard limits or can they trigger outside of them?


Like can this one trigger after T2 innocent breaks or higher SHAM levels?

I think I agree with this statement.
After reading the guide, I believe what this game needs is a proper tutorial in game with a concrete example of how to perform the breaks and how to progress overall.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to understand how all those mechanics interact with one-another without a step-by step explanation on how to play the game.
The GOAL system is a step in the right direction but ultimately not enough because it doesn't tell you what are the requirements for getting the effects it wants you to trigger.

It honestly made me think about when I wanted to learn how to play Jack-o-Ninetails. A huge pain in the butt to comprehend the basic mechanics, which was made even more frustrating by the fact that the game didn't need to be this obtuse to begin with because the systems are complex enough to be a challenge on their own.

In both cases the fantasy being sold is excellent with great situations but burried under a confusing and opaque learning curve.
But at least when I was trying to learn Jack-o-Ninetails I could feel when I was on the right track.
Here I could be doing the "correct" thing and still feel like no progress is being made somehow, that's very weird. And since I'm not 100% confident I'm indeed doing the right thing, I start questioning myself and wondering why nothing is changing.

And reading the reviews for this game, I feel validated in this opinion because many of the 4-5 star ratings also point out all those issues as massive pains in the butt to deal with.

But... when it works, it's fantastic, and that I also agree on. There were some very special moments that happened in my short period playing it (3-4h)
I'll keep trying, but I'm losing hope.

 

[Antivash]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to understand how all those mechanics interact with one-another without a step-by step explanation on how to play the game.
The GOAL system is a step in the right direction but ultimately not enough because it doesn't tell you what are the requirements for getting the effects it wants you to trigger.

I don't think it needs a step-by-step example, because in most instances its pretty clear what needs what. Like with Drain. You see Chosen using Striptease and Fantasize while not surrounded or captured and can be led to believe Detonate should be the same, but when it only seems to happen to captured Chosen, its pretty easy to link the logic to "Oh, I have to increase this by doing that." That isn't there when the game is telling you to actively do something but is expecting something else entirely different.

The primary issue is that what is communicated is almost entirely theory and not concrete information about specific things. Like Drain and Detonate are easy enough to work out and figure out on your own. Morality and Confidence breaks are very well explained in game. I don't understand how those things can be fine, but Innocence and Dignity get this ambiguous shit. Like, if those two things are the only ones that got more detail, that would be fine with me.

But... when it works, it's fantastic, and that I also agree on. There were some very special moments that happened in my short period playing it (3-4h)
I'll keep trying, but I'm losing hope.

Yeah, I really enjoy both Jack and this. Especially this. But when indication that you are doing something wrong is that you failed to do whatever, with no further details than "it didnt work" to go on, its gets stupidly frustrating.

 

[Dasneaky]

what do forskaen do btw

 

[Antivash]

what do forskaen do btw

Essentially the same role as commanders. On top of the T4 break, they can also cause t2 breaks.

 

[McHuman]

I think I agree with this statement.
After reading the guide, I believe what this game needs is a proper tutorial in game with a concrete example of how to perform the breaks and how to progress overall.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to understand how all those mechanics interact with one-another without a step-by step explanation on how to play the game.
The GOAL system is a step in the right direction but ultimately not enough because it doesn't tell you what are the requirements for getting the effects it wants you to trigger.

It honestly made me think about when I wanted to learn how to play Jack-o-Ninetails. A huge pain in the butt to comprehend the basic mechanics, which was made even more frustrating by the fact that the game didn't need to be this obtuse to begin with because the systems are complex enough to be a challenge on their own.

In both cases the fantasy being sold is excellent with great situations but burried under a confusing and opaque learning curve.
But at least when I was trying to learn Jack-o-Ninetails I could feel when I was on the right track.
Here I could be doing the "correct" thing and still feel like no progress is being made somehow, that's very weird. And since I'm not 100% confident I'm indeed doing the right thing, I start questioning myself and wondering why nothing is changing.

And reading the reviews for this game, I feel validated in this opinion because many of the 4-5 star ratings also point out all those issues as massive pains in the butt to deal with.

But... when it works, it's fantastic, and that I also agree on. There were some very special moments that happened in my short period playing it (3-4h)
I'll keep trying, but I'm losing hope.

The sad part is, making a tutorial would actually be pretty easy, the game itself already has the commentary system, so all they need to do to make a tutorial is to make a built in save-file tied to a tutorial button which is an entire game done with the commentary system active explaining all mechanics as they come up and stuff. Admittedly I've never used the commentary system so maybe it'd be a bit harder than I'd think, but the system for it is in place so all it is is a matter of the dev just playing through a single play game. Hell, I think a while back someone in this thread actually did do this themselves, it's just that the save is super outdated and no longer works.

And yeah, it really sucks that the game isn't always super clear whether you're doing the right or wrong thing, which is especially prevalent when dealing with T3 and T4 breaks. Because T3 and T4 breaks cant be done in a single battle, it's really not obvious whether or not you're building up trauma/punisher effectiveness at a good rate unless you end up having an amazing battle and immediately dealing enough trauma to T3 break all four vulnerabilities at once (then cry when you realize it was on a Chosen you were trying to distort but aren't in a position to distort right away forcing you to reload a save) or something.

 

[dekeche]

The comment system may not be working.... I've actually tried making a tutorial, but couldn't figure out how to read back the comments, so was unable to verify that it was working.

 

[McHuman]

The comment system may not be working.... I've actually tried making a tutorial, but couldn't figure out how to read back the comments, so was unable to verify that it was working.

Did you have it set to Read/Write and not just Write in the options?