Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.14] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Wrynn13]

The funny thing about the Helspawn debacle is the incest content was something Savin brought up. It wasn't that people were "frothing at the mouth" demanding incest content, it's that people were asking "hey Savin you do anything about that thing you promised" and he blew up over people actually expecting something he said he was going to do. Have I said Savin is an ass before? Savin is an ass.

 

[pencilfight]

The funny thing about the Helspawn debacle is the incest content was something Savin brought up. It wasn't that people were "frothing at the mouth" demanding incest content, it's that people were asking "hey Savin you do anything about that thing you promised" and he blew up over people actually expecting something he said he was going to do. Have I said Savin is an ass before? Savin is an ass.

There does seem to be a disturbing amount of general overlap between people who are willing to make interactive fetish porn and irritability

You'd think earning a living wage doing maybe an hour's worth of actual work a week would mellow them out a bit

 

[Biostar]

The funny thing about the Helspawn debacle is the incest content was something Savin brought up. It wasn't that people were "frothing at the mouth" demanding incest content, it's that people were asking "hey Savin you do anything about that thing you promised" and he blew up over people actually expecting something he said he was going to do. Have I said Savin is an ass before? Savin is an ass.

What gets me is that Tobs is the one holding a grudge about still, someone who wasn't even the writer for Helspawn, even carrying it over into CoC2. Like damn, you think they killed his fucking dog for him to be that salty years after the fact.

 

[namelessone22]

As a at first neutral party that originally got coc2 in large part due to being tempted by "devoted kitsune wife/family sim" on the tin, and also accepted the "it's a different culture you wouldn't understand" defense longer than I should have, I'll try giving a breakdown of why it, being generous, has issues, story and #itsjustasmutgamebro wise.

The prologue is fine, great even. Kiyokos surprisingly stable for someone that's been completely isolated for enough years to originally go from being a teen to elderly, for a kitsune(!) at least and then has someone knock on her door, but we'll ignore that. You're introduced to their culture, begin as food with benefits and wind up spending enough time a relationship happens. Plenty of non smut relationship building fluff scenes, you love to see it. Before or during this you have your first kid, kinu.

Here we're introduced to the first issue, kiyoko is an abusive, overly strict parent. During the time you see, she pushes kinu to do exactly what she wants her to, only accepts perfection but then she lies to her telling her she failed when she didn't, pushes her into a coma(!) is angry whenever she's asked for help, and leaves a majority of the work handling the other kids to kinu.

During the time you don't see, in tobs novella, after kinu finishes making food for the family, kiyoko comes home for a hour, finds out she wasn't perfectly stealthy in a neighboring town, so slaps her in the face and lectures her. She also has zero interest in what kinu wants and is bluntly mentioned as perfectly willing to separate her from whoever she loves so she can get with someone *suitable*. There's not a character arc with development where she realizes she's been horrible besides one apology scene that happens some time before she slaps her. This does not lead to character development or a turn on.

In the course of this we're chucked a "what a twist" that upon freeing them, there was a time skip of several years for them. Was it because keros wanted to be quirky and require a cost or forced for plot, it is a mystery. The observer forces in with this a forced time limitation that regardless of whether you had one kid or 500 with Kiyoko, whether you visited every single night or not, that you weren't there often to begin with and then weren't there for several years, leading to either form of kinu having parental issues. Basically youre written as getting the amulet then Speedrunning to the den. Also kinu is now getting married to a decent enough farmer or a impotent idiot who writes poetry while his fiancee is almost r'ed and killed multiple times, and again I quote kiyoko "your opinion/input doesn't matter".

Getting to the den we have further issues. Why can't we communicate with any kitsune before the den? "Hello kurako/kitsune 54, before we bang, lady evergreen has had one of her enchanted items stolen by a kitsune, I would like to talk with your leader on your own terms to peacefully negotiate it's return please. Also I have this orb another kitsune group that I saved said I should seek her aid about, it has someone in it called kiyoko or something?"

After you are forced to non lethally doom slayer the entirety of the den so komari can say "oh yeah whatever here's the bag they were kinda dumb tbh", you gain general access to it. Takahiro greets you with "you fookin wat m8 I'll fookin bash yer ead in I don't have a problem I can't stop when I want" x6, and you also greet nakano, who talks about how dumb you are, then goes back to his paperwork, poetry and needing your assistance while you reminisce one shotting him.

In the den we have kohaku who people thought was cute until she had zero character development or relationship, miko and mai who you can get pregnant and never see the kid or get a relationship, can watch them bang takahiro though, kazuo who's been abandoned for years but you get nuked if you try to write anything for, yuzu and azami you can watch bang takahiro, rindo who you can be a sugar daddy for until someone better comes along like nakano (pfft), komari who stares off into the void mimicking the "why am I still here" meme during random chess games that tobs had art made of being young but that was just a prank bro, kinus farmer husband that's only there during her scenes or in the novella, and the new update kitsune I have no hope for. Also keros but apparently he doesn't care if his people are being attacked by another god so who gives af.

Back to kiyoko n kinu though, or rather just kinu, she's had the only content. She's had 2 gweyr-interlude type scenes now where she talks about having a cult with shadowy monsters attacking and burning down your home, and their leader threatening to gouge out her i's and r her while the PC does a "oh, honey..." And pats her head. Kiyoko and mai and miko intervene at the very end of the first. That's it. After that, she (royalty who has been attacked prior) has to go cross continent, and she gets farmer mercs and a merchant as escort. Nakano, glory seeker samurai who is her fiancee, nowhere. All the wandering kitsune, nowhere. Miko, mai, komari, nowhere. Keros, nowhere. Mallach helps her out after she barely gets out via a teleporter. The PC goes "oh honey..." Again while kinu talks about how strong and independent she is and how she'll have her training arc by the next encounter.

Honestly, even if all the kitsune were friendly and welcomed you, all that's enough of a problem. When they all call you outsider and barbarian but are incompetent, when kiyoko says your opinion doesn't matter but is a awful and abusive mother and partner, when neither of kinus fiancees ever do anything to help her besides in the novella, when kinu is being written as a solo power fantasy dev insert while the PC and kiyoko get nothing and the PC is forced to not put their foot down and go lu bu on some dumb fencer fox that's being written to have a redemption arc, when half the smut is watching takahiro bang someone including side love interests while you fap in the corner, AND on top of all that and giving them priceless artifacts, saving their royalty, becoming partner(?) Glorified ho(?) Of said royalty, their god thinking you're cool enough to be buds with, they still do the barbarian/ outsider crap? No sorry, Japanese people and culture are far better than this and stereotypical portrayals of those far in the past would value honor, aid and loyalty with no betrayals, outsiderTM or no far more than this.

Exactly!
I didn't have a problem playing the story through the first time (although Kiyoko's strict upbringing was evident). *Until* Freeing them from the amulet.
The bullshit Tobs pulled when bringing Kiyoko & Kinu out of the amulet/dreamscape was completely uneccesary (even if he was going to age Kinu (fine) but to put the dislike of you in there was unecessary).

I wouldn't have minded an incest plot with older Kinu if it was fairly well-written (more like the interaction with her growing up), but it wasn't something that I must have.
(It would have been interesting because the previous interactions had been well-written)

My main problem is that he ruined the (normal) relationship between you & your daughter (that was actually sweet & interesting) for no reason.
If he didn't want to put incest in, fine, no problem. Say so on the forums or whatever.
But don't then turn around and deliberately screw up the story just to get back at people who asked for it or whatever. (petty & childish)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm getting off track here, but I agree with pretty much all of what you've said and in regards to the den's attitude towards you - I don't mind it at the beginning, but it should evolve as you become more involved with the den.

-For argument's sake, their attitude may even be appropriate for the Shogun-ish era he's drawing from, but it's completely out of place with the rest of the game (not the attitude, but the fact that they don't warm up to you very much, considering all the things you do for them.)

TBF They may be waiting for a big quest much later where you save the den from the big-bads & earn their proper respect that way, which would be ok, but also too late if that makes sense.

 

[M0nte]

It'll also have Alypia's second actual full character after Serena. and I really liked Serena. Alypia is pretty much the only writer who actually seems to go for romances that actually develops in stages （based on the one example I got) so I'm pretty interested to see this.

I an interested in why you think that? What does Serena have that other Romantic interests lack?

 

[jfmherokiller]

Exactly!
I didn't have a problem playing the story through the first time (although Kiyoko's strict upbringing was evident). *Until* Freeing them from the amulet.
The bullshit Tobs pulled when bringing Kiyoko & Kinu out of the amulet/dreamscape was completely uneccesary (even if he was going to age Kinu (fine) but to put the dislike of you in there was unecessary).

I wouldn't have minded an incest plot with older Kinu if it was fairly well-written (more like the interaction with her growing up), but it wasn't something that I must have.
(It would have been interesting because the previous interactions had been well-written)

My main problem is that he ruined the (normal) relationship between you & your daughter (that was actually sweet & interesting) for no reason.
If he didn't want to put incest in, fine, no problem. Say so on the forums or whatever.
But don't then turn around and deliberately screw up the story just to get back at people who asked for it or whatever. (petty & childish)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm getting off track here, but I agree with pretty much all of what you've said and in regards to the den's attitude towards you - I don't mind it at the beginning, but it should evolve as you become more involved with the den.

-For argument's sake, their attitude may even be appropriate for the Shogun-ish era he's drawing from, but it's completely out of place with the rest of the game (not the attitude, but the fact that they don't warm up to you very much, considering all the things you do for them.)

TBF They may be waiting for a big quest much later where you save the den from the big-bads & earn their proper respect that way, which would be ok, but also too late if that makes sense.

damn this shows how much I usually skip with the upbringing stuff unintentionally or my brain completely deletes because for all the times I have played, I honestly dont remember Kiyoko laying a hand on Kinu.

 

[Skandranon]

I an interested in why you think that? What does Serena have that other Romantic interests lack?

She feels a bit more complete, due to both not jumping you immediately and her non sexual scenes. You hang out with her a bit, get to know her, and then get to see things that are important to her (her kids) before you get intimate with her.

Special mention to those, as the scenes with your party and the kids are the kind of scenes that I really enjoy and make a character more endearing.

 

[M0nte]

Do you think aversion to casual sex is needed for serious romance to work, or is it just that in Serenas case it was ideal?

 

[Quintilus]

casual sex

What considered a casual sex in this excuse for a game?!

 

[M0nte]

In this context, it is someone who is willing to go down from beggining but does not actually like you romantically. So fuck buddies, basically. Yet, given enough time (3 to 4 events), you can become lovers if you so choose.

 

[Skandranon]

Do you think aversion to casual sex is needed for serious romance to work, or is it just that in Serenas case it was ideal?

I think that a romance can work either way.

Going over to TiTs for instance, there are several characters who jump into sex immediately or pretty quickly and still feel like they develop a relationship that works: Anno, Syri, Shekka, Amber, Ardia, etc.

A lot of them, though, (in both this game and TiTs) feel like Briennes: character is almost immediately in love with you for no real discernible reason other than you existing in their vicinity.

 

[Walk Cycle]

I think that a romance can work either way.

Going over to TiTs for instance, there are several characters who jump into sex immediately or pretty quickly and still feel like they develop a relationship that works: Anno, Syri, Shekka, Amber, Ardia, etc.

A lot of them, though, (in both this game and TiTs) feel like Briennes: character is almost immediately in love with you for no real discernible reason other than you existing in their vicinity.

On the other end of the spectrum we have someone like

You must be registered to see the links

. She won't immediately have sex with the player and you have to build familiarity with her first. Which is a bitch and a half because she only appears on hostile tiles most of the day AND she moves planets every week. Her "familiarity" stat also only goes up by increments but if you're not too careful you may accidentally annoy her and decrease her hidden familiarity stat by at least five times of what you can gain in an average encounter with her (See spoiler below)

Spoiler: I mean look at this shit

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

She's also married and has children, which might turn off some players. She also won't have sex with Himbos/Bimbos, or non-bipedal characters. Overall she's an incredibly hard character to get in bed with, which is a shame. Who doesn't like a literal foxy-MILF doctor?

 

[Skandranon]

Bianca's pretty good but, as you mentioned, she's partially part of the relationship building styles that I don't like: repeated non unique events to build some meter or points to move stages.

Like Amily in CoC, who you had to visit a billion times and pop out a trillion babies with before she moved in with you.

In fact, I'd say it was long past the time a player with no foreknowledge of the game would assume anything was going to happen.

And the visits and sex were just the same scenes repeated pretty much ad infinitum.

It really sucked, and it wasn't the only case of this in CoC, quite a few of the companions did it.

If it's unique events to move the relationship, or a small amount of repeated events just to simulate a building relationship? Fine. But making it tedious sucks.

Strawberry Tea did it right with the manicure girl. A few meetings, then a decent number of mostly unique training events iirc worked well to set up a budding relationship.

B also isn't bad at this, did it with Paige and Zo and it felt fairly natural.

 

[muschi26]

Strawberry Tea did it right with the manicure girl

 

[Skandranon]

I've stopped fighting the autocorrect on my phone, whatever it thinks I'm trying to say is what I'm saying.

 

[MoneyMan181]

Do you think aversion to casual sex is needed for serious romance to work, or is it just that in Serenas case it was ideal?

It can work no matter how that is approached, all that matters is the emotional journey. I mean just look at the first game or even some instances in TiTS. Helia, Marble, Urta, Kiha, Kiro, Tessa, Paige, etc. all have the ability to fuck before romance, but that's not all there is to them. We get to know things about them and do things with them in a way that feels natural towards building a relationship with them. As long as you take the necessary amount of time and effort to properly pace what you do with the character, I think any of them could work romantically. The problem with this game is that people just instantly fall in love with you with no real set-up. You don't have to put any work into it and that's just not how relationships work, even just when it comes to getting into one.

On the other end of the spectrum we have someone like

You must be registered to see the links

. She won't immediately have sex with the player and you have to build familiarity with her first. Which is a bitch and a half because she only appears on hostile tiles most of the day AND she moves planets every week. Her "familiarity" stat also only goes up by increments but if you're not too careful you may accidentally annoy her and decrease her hidden familiarity stat by at least five times of what you can gain in an average encounter with her (See spoiler below)

Spoiler: I mean look at this shit

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

She's also married and has children, which might turn off some players. She also won't have sex with Himbos/Bimbos, or non-bipedal characters. Overall she's an incredibly hard character to get in bed with, which is a shame. Who doesn't like a literal foxy-MILF doctor?

I'm fine with Bianca. I never went especially out of my way to repeat her events or anything and I unlocked all her content without any real hassle. Having a character you need to work for and actually has standards is also fine to me since it actually helps characterize them. That's not to say she's done perfectly or anything, but I do think it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.

Strawberry Tea did it right with the manicure girl.

To anybody who doesn't get this: He means manticore girl and is talking about Valencia.

 

[muschi26]

To anybody who doesn't get this: He means manticore girl and is talking about Valencia.

I know, I know, I was just making a joke, OK?

 

[Walk Cycle]

It can work no matter how that is approached, all that matters is the emotional journey. I mean just look at the first game or even some instances in TiTS. Helia, Marble, Urta, Kiha, Kiro, Tessa, Paige, etc. all have the ability to fuck before romance, but that's not all there is to them. We get to know things about them and do things with them in a way that feels natural towards building a relationship with them. As long as you take the necessary amount of time and effort to properly pace what you do with the character, I think any of them could work romantically. The problem with this game is that people just instantly fall in love with you with no real set-up. You don't have to put any work into it and that's just not how relationships work, even just when it comes to getting into one

I'm fine with Bianca. I never went especially out of my way to repeat her events or anything and I unlocked all her content without any real hassle. Having a character you need to work for and actually has standards is also fine to me since it actually helps characterize them. That's not to say she's done perfectly or anything, but I do think it's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.

Tbh I took one look at Bianca's wiki page and was demotivated on how I have to repeat bland encounters with her than say, actually get to know her or help her with a quest. Doesn't help her than when I encounter her it usually means I started a new playthrough and at that point I'm more concerned on getting to the next Probe (and Ardia) as fast as possible. I also don't mind that she opposes having sex with taurs/nagas or himbos/bimbos because that's perfectly rational. I just wish she has scenes where Steele can help her out while she's working or Steele is more active around her. Something like Dommy Mommy Caterpillar Xanthe on Myrellion where you can just spend time on her lap just talking about her day or where she has you wear new clothes she made and act as a model for her customers, and those are usually just few sentences long.

Also it's nice to see fellow Paige enjoyers. B did an excellent job with her, when I saw that interactivity in her body worship scene oof

 

[MoneyMan181]

Something like Dommy Mommy Caterpillar Xanthe on Myrellion where you can just spend time on her lap just talking about her day or where she has you wear new clothes she made and act as a model for her customers, and those are usually just few sentences long.

She does have a lot of conversations in the bars of the planets she's on. She's there right after she stops work for the day, you can have a good chunk of talks with her that way if you want. Being able to help her somehow and get closer that way would be nice, though.

I know, I know, I was just making a joke, OK?

I... Know? I'm just trying to explain what he originally meant to people since I didn't know what he was talking about until he said he made a typo.

 

[nejfan]

So says Bubbles.


So expect Hadriana in...uh...mid-to-late 2023.

Holy shit, is it seriously gonna take over 3 whole years for his fem path to be released since they brought it up??

Btw, what characters can be feminized/sissified here?