- Jun 24, 2020
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I bet it'll be fine myself, Provided you didn't write anything harsh alongside it.
Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.27] [Savin/Salamander Studios]
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Aside from interacting with you the vast majority of characters do nothing or go anywhere when you're not involved. When you tell a character to come with you on a journey they don't refuse you for some reason, they come without complaint, even the ones who should have bigger responsibilities than being with you. They even leave big decisons of their lives to you. Sounds pretty devoted to me.
Your examples are the Big Bad and literal gods who actively do nothing. You don't have to do anything with a full squad unless the game forces you to for story reasons.
Her interest in our character is literally because we are special. How it came about doesn't change the fact that we are.
Except Spider-Man is one hero in a world full of active heroes, civilians, and villains. He will never be the most important person in that world nor would he have a connection with every single NPC like our character does. If this game is suppose to make me think otherwise then it honestly failed. Any lore dumps is just excessive window dressing because it'll never matter beyond flavor text.
Wish TOBs would get that fucking memo
Cait's with you because your goals align. Brint is just bored. Atugia is ordered to by the person she works for. Agni is also bored. Azzy is ordered to by her Queen (though she wants to anyway). Quin's goals align with yours. Berwyn is with you because your goals align.
Ryn, Kiyoko, and sub Arona are the only one's who could be construed to be "devoted" towards you, and I'd argue Arona barely counts.
Let me put it this way if your character decided to straight up leave the Frost Marches, head to some other corner of the world to fuck around...who'd follow you? Because I'd say most of your party wouldn't.
That...doesn't really change anything? I could add probably Komari and Lady Evergreen in there. You aren't the strongest character in the setting. Nobody treats you or acknowledges you as the strongest. The plot doesn't treat you that way. You're certainly a force to be reckoned with, but story wise, you and your party are just kinda strong. Noone is scared of you.
The story is what we're talking about. This whole conversation is about how the game treats your character, and the game obviously always assumes you have a party.
It HUGELY changes that. A character who is just good at everything just because is not at all the same as a character who is good at things because of an accident. One of those two things is generally called a Mary-Sue, one isn't.
They don't have to matter beyond flavor text. It's not real. Pretty much all world-building, in any work, is an illusion.
Well, less so Marvel or anything with an expanded universe because you can tune into the actual world beyond any given character, but still. World building needs to hint at a background that you can't see beyond your character. It gives the stuff you can see depth.
Of course it seems like we have a connection with every NPC, because you're the view point character - you only see people you can talk to.
Substitute Spider-man for plenty of other characters.
Frodo from Lord of the Rings.
Whoever you want from Game of Thrones.
Heck, Saitama from One Punch Man.
Main characters do not need to be the lynchpin the entire world revolves around. Things can and should happen (or at least appear to happen) around them, without them, and in spite of them.
Honestly, I'm a little confused as to what we're even discussing here - the original post was just me outlining my tastes in games and stuff I like. Are you trying to convince me I don't actually like this game?
Hey both sides of the argument are welcome here, its the fucking point and what makes it better then that shithole Fenoxo.com, also they make a quarter million dollars a year and they still use a .com, fucking hacks.
- Jun 3, 2019
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Honestly the player character feels like a side character a lot of times.
- Dec 4, 2019
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Side character? Now you're just overestimating us.
WE are an extra.
- Jun 3, 2019
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They didn't like the whole idea of you being the protagonist in your life.
- Dec 4, 2019
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Yeah, they kinda went full 180 of what the first one created.
It is really diappointing.
If there was a corner of the world to fuck around in, and the devs didn't change the game mechanics, then yes I could bring anyone in my party there and literally spend years doing nothing and they'll happily stick around. There is no occasion where they refuse to go to some area or time limit where they'll stick with you until they forcibly disband.
Except the game does treat you that way by making every conflict resolved by you. You're not competing against anyone and the story ends if you die. It does change things because it's all about who is functionally the strongest. The gods, Komari, or Evergreen do not fight so they don't matter when considering the strongest character. The sun is a greater force than everyone but you don't count it as the strongest.
The gameplay is part of the story. That's what a RPG is. How you decide to fight and build your strats is part of your character. If you're generally a loner, the specific times where you're made to have a quest companion doesn't invalidate the way you played for the majority of the game.
That's a difference without distinction. We are special just because. We didn't earn an uber soul that everyone wants a piece of through hard work. That's not even mentioning how we can master any skill whether it's weapon or magic just because. Our character is the type you would see in isekai with an OP cheat.
If it is just flavor text then it's not a good illusion. Good worldbuilding is like in One Piece where you know that stuff is still going on outside of the main cast because it has actual effects on the world and story.
Which is my point. Characters like Spider-Man, Frodo, Saitama, etc. don't work like that because they're not intended to be the central focus in the world. Our character is.
More like convincing you that you don't actually mind the stuff you claim to dislike. If you like the game then you like being the center of attention and having a harem because that is the majority of the game.
- Feb 14, 2020
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Tony Stark
Your post reminded me of Katawa fox, I believe her name is Lind. Whoever wrote her just took a shit and shoved how we're supposed to feel about it down our throats, I legit felt violated by that giant fuckload of BS.
I reckon that she's supposed to be some kind of defective Kinu to appease those who want to lewd the OG but if I'm right, it didn't work.
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I'm obviously not talking about game mechanics. Game mechanics don't shape perceptions of characters. If they did, people in this very thread wouldn't be irritated by how the game treats them in the story because the mechanics treat them the same either way. Mechanically, literally everyone is an unthinking unfeeling doll when you aren't around - that's not how anyone, in this topic or any other one, actually perceives them, because mechanics don't shape character perception.
You can fight Kas, and she's still stronger than you. In winter City, you fight some demons, who you can't beat and who a god has to step in to beat. Some conflicts in the game are fought by Gweyr. A few are resolved by Kinu.
Just a few examples of things that are not resolved by you.
And only YOUR story ends if you die. Noone else's. Everybody would keep doing their own thing independent of you. You can even see that in the bad ends where you get enslaved or whatever - the world keeps on spinning.
The gameplay is almost invariably completely independent of the story. If there's a cutscene where your character gets beat, it doesn't matter how high you level up - your character gets beat. You can't level up high enough to beat the ghosts in the sidequest in Winter City. You can't outlevel Kas and the game treats you as stronger than her, or the Gods, or the thing you fight in the Winter City plotline.
Story trumps gameplay, always, when it comes to shaping perceptions and personal taste in how characters are handled. Almost nobody's personal tastes take gameplay into account.
That's a different with a VERY important distinction. How a character "earns" what they have is an important piece in how they are perceived. Both Batman and Spider-man live in universes with people far stronger than them. Both characters will always win at the end of their story. Neither will ever die or experience any permanent setbacks.
Yet Batman is often considered "OP" to the point where there's memes about it, and lots of people dislike him on that fact alone, while Spider-man is often seen as a scrappy underdog. It's because of the difference in how the two are handled.
Nah, that's just not true. Good worldbuilding can happen without a character ever encountering any of the elements that worldbuilding suggests. Even in One Piece, it alludes to stuff we'll never actually see. Specifics about the history of Gold D Roger and his clashes with the contemporaries of his time? We'll never see that. We hear about it, but we'll never see it.
One Piece often alludes to ancient legends, historical figures, civilizations, etc that go beyond where the story will ever go, because that's what worldbuilding does. It's the illusion of depth. You can fill out that depth to a certain degree if you are writing a story that encompasses an entire world, but the world being bigger than your character's story is integral to the process.
Spider-man is definitely the center of his comic book. He's definitely the center of his movies, his games, and his shows.
Saitama is definitely the center of the comic literally titled after him. And I hardly think anyone would agree that Frodo isn't the central focus of LotR.
Yeah, that's not gonna happen. I have a pretty firm grasp on things I like and why.
More importantly, I've played a million games on this site that actually have the things I dislike, and I generally hated them.
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- Dec 4, 2019
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I think I'd agree with all aside from this.
Saitama's storytelling is the storytelling I WISH they did with this game, PROPERLY.
They made us a bland Mary Sue / Gary Stu who will inevitably beat Kas (or join) later on anyway with the cliche' "Lose first, win after" storytelling that most bland stories are so fond of especially in this damn setting and genre...
That "handled" by Kinu? She won't, WE will end the story SHE started, I can already see our lord and savior Tobs doing that or heck, maybe even create a scene where we'll fight Budget Rafael then Kinu will stop us 'coz morals.
"If you killed him, you won't be the dad / mum I looked up to." yada yada boring cliche moral dilemma bullshit.
Either that or Tobs will just do a Savin move and cuck is again by leaving us out of it 'coz why not, we're an extra after all.
This is HER character arc right? More character development for our dauteru.
It's not like the story told by her happened in the past and we in the present can probably change the course of it by interfering or just be a true MODERN parent and just leave our kids to deal with their own problems then blame them for their own failure.
Much story, such character development, really deep character writing right there.
Ahhhh it makes me proud to be a papa to mock and scold my children for their failures, Kinu let the homestead be obliterated, her siblings near murdered and she got a hug for her fuckup
._. And of course because TOB writes obvious tropes she doesn't want the forgiveness offered because she is Punished Kinu or some shit or whatever the fuck, meanwhile the prior game had you granted the ability to make light or even mock such sad sack tragic bullshit
I'm willing to bet a small sum of money that this is exactly what's gonna happen.
Either kill bad fox and become evil in your daughter eyes or let him live because thats what good guys do.
alternatively if we get kicked out of this again, then she'll kill him and champion will admolish her for it.
As if killing this obviously unredeemable arsonist/murderer/rapist, hellbent of exterminating all kitsune is not the only correct course of action.
They do for me.
A literal drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the game.
Except the game literally ends, which means everyone's does. It doesn't move on to another character after you die because you're the center of attention. No one else's story gets resolved if yours ends.
Memes and opinions aside, Batman is just a dude with a lot of money. He didn't earn the money he got from his parents the same way Spider-Man didn't earn that insect bite. They are still special because of those things.
If you don't encounter any of the elements involved in lore, then it's not good worldbuilding because it's not part of the world. I don't know how far you are in One Piece but none of that is true. We see things all the time through flashbacks and the events in those shape how the present is ongoing. We've seen specifics about the history of Roger, even had a flashback arc specifically about a part of it not too long ago. The allusions One Piece makes actually have an impact on the story. The poneglyphs, the ancient weapons, ancient civilizations like the Shandians, the Void Century and how it effects the world today still, etc are integral to what's going on. If we just went through the journey without knowing the history we wouldn't understand why things are happening or what needs to be done to resolve them. It's not an illusion, it's actual depth because it actually matters.
But Spider-Man is not the center of that world. If he died, the story of that world would continue because it's set in the Marvel Universe where there are hundreds of comics detailing how life still goes on after him. Even characters taking up his mantle and becoming Spider-Man have happened. And Saitama definitively is not. There have been large swathes of the manga where he's not even on panel the majority of the time. He's basically a side character at this point.
And I don't think Frodo is the central focus of LotR. He is one story we follow along with multiple others.
If you say so.
One Piece's world building being an "illusion of depth" has to be the worst take I have seen about anything, also I cant tell if Skandranon is a troll or Savin himself