Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.27] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[TheVegnar]

I mean if I start being an asshole for no reason then I'm obviously gonna be banned
but I'll look around, read some comments, see the other side of the coin and try with a simple critique and see if I get banned from that. any suggestions before I go into the lions den?

Abandon All Hope, He who Enters !
May the Force be with you.
Good Luck
Bring an Old Priest and a Young Priest !

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

Oh god
That doesn't fill me with confidence

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

Welp I'm back
It was very strange over in the land of fenoxo's forums and I have to say it was different
I had to make an account to comment and all the other shit but I'll spilt up what I noticed, please correct me if I got something wrong
1. Not that many people are in the Coc2 threads, the only people are the Devs, Well-known members and some Randoms in the forums. These were the same people over and over.
2. Everything looks heavily moderated, I couldn't even post a simple comment on most threads.
3. I have seen criticism of the game but it was only from the well-known members, so I'm guessing if you step outta line and are the wrong person you get the hammer, fuck me they had the whole thread were only well-known members, devs and active members can talk
4. I've seen alot of comments from the devs like Savin, The Observer, etc. So they are pretty active with the community. Funnily The Observer had his pfp of Kinu being fucked from behind
It looks like a shitstorm but I keep hearing about the misdeeds of the dev team, especially The Observer and his petty bullying but I haven't been able to find anything close to that. Although I could be stupid and missed it all
If anyone is willing to point me to a video, comment thread, explain in great detail, etc
I'm just trying to understand the full story without the salt and tears.

 

[TheVegnar]

Welp I'm back
It was very strange over in the land of fenoxo's forums and I have to say it was different
I had to make an account to comment and all the other shit but I'll spilt up what I noticed, please correct me if I got something wrong
1. Not that many people are in the Coc2 threads, the only people are the Devs, Well-known members and some Randoms in the forums. These were the same people over and over.
2. Everything looks heavily moderated, I couldn't even post a simple comment on most threads.
3. I have seen criticism of the game but it was only from the well-known members, so I'm guessing if you step outta line and are the wrong person you get the hammer, fuck me they had the whole thread were only well-known members, devs and active members can talk
4. I've seen alot of comments from the devs like Savin, The Observer, etc. So they are pretty active with the community. Funnily The Observer had his pfp of Kinu being fucked from behind
It looks like a shitstorm but I keep hearing about the misdeeds of the dev team, especially The Observer and his petty bullying but I haven't been able to find anything close to that. Although I could be stupid and missed it all
If anyone is willing to point me to a video, comment thread, explain in great detail, etc
I'm just trying to understand the full story without the salt and tears.

Nope, I didn't get the hammer, but they changed every comment I did years ago to Unsavory actions and etc. and I havn't been back there yet. Don't worry, If you go there enough, youll sooner or later get into it, or get tired of some thing or another, and back talk one of them. And you will get first hand experience.

Atleast here, the forums let you vent, bs, stress relief, and call Sav on their bs.

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

I'm not going back there
I'm gonna save myself the time and energy, I can't even post on most threads anyway
while I think we need to claim down a little in this thread, most criticism from people is still valid and shouldn't be labeled as "hate"
But this whole thing has made me sad and less motivated for the future of the game, I almost want to mod the damn thing myself

 

[Kallisto]

I'm not going back there
I'm gonna save myself the time and energy, I can't even post on most threads anyway
while I think we need to claim down a little in this thread, most criticism from people is still valid and shouldn't be labeled as "hate"
But this whole thing has made me sad and less motivated for the future of the game, I almost want to mod the damn thing myself

Just search this thread for Tobs and/or The Observer (using the search function - look for the longer comments, the more valid complaints usually have links/screenshots). This thread has devolved a bit but there used to be paragraph long complaints/venting that wasn't just overly angry poorly worded comments.

Once Raf-Raf came in with his alcohol barrel and his cactus crew it was all downhill from there (jk buddy, <3)

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

what
the
fuck
The first comment I click on is about Mallachian faith and Child-grooming

 

[KloneZone]

what
the
fuck
The first comment I click on is about Mallachian faith and Child-grooming

Keep going it keeps going lower.

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

It just gets worse and worse
how is this possible

 

[WazaQQXOXO]

It just gets worse and worse
how is this possible

Is that surprising considering he commissioned CGs depicting Kinu getting railed to the ground?

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

Yeah, thats a good point
I saw all the wiki art of Kinu, I can feel the spite in them

 

[Noone202]

Yeah, thats a good point
I saw all the wiki art of Kinu, I can feel the spite in them

And that is why we need to spite him back.

Alabama patch when?

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

After reading a bunch of old posts and pictures (still going through)
I genuinely don't understand how humans can do this shit, the drama, story writing, petty behaviors, Fenoxo being called out on infidelity?, the discord images.
oh god the discord images
Like how? how the fuck does all this happen in ONE FUCKING PORN GAME

 

[Fikedever]

Eh, I can't really relate. I don't think of the main character as myself, so I don't really care if they arent the center of attention.

You don't self insert as the main character? Do you self insert as the other NPC? Do you not self insert at all?

You usually choose a game medium to deliver content where the player has agency or choice. If the main character isn't the focus, then why even have them there? Unless your goal is the choice of leaving the main character out as a fetish, I.E. voyeur or cucking?

If those aren't your goals, then I'm not sure why an interactive medium makes sense instead of writing a non interactive story about NPCs doing things.

Actually, I'd rather the opposite. Blank slates are boring, so I'd much rather characters with actual personalities get the spotlight.

Because they can't write an interesting player character. Them overcompensating by putting the work into characterization between NPCs doesn't solve the problem that the character that you most see interacting with other NPCs is the main character and should have the best characterization. They skimped out on quality on the main character, which has the highest quantity of screen time.

• Is the main character so boring because Savin restricted what can and can not be done so much that the writers hands are tied? If yes, thats bad planning, editing and/or directing.
• Is the characterization well done, but Savin doesn't ask more from writers in the editing process? That's a failure on the writer to follow the characterization, and on the editor for failing to maintain the expectations of consistency.
  • From my understanding, it is more likely Savin only focuses on editing and revising community submissions until they are good enough to get in, and most paid writers (tobs for sure at least) have their work put in without any revisions or editing done.

I don't enjoy the spotlight on NPC x NPC because it is a symptom of their inability to write an engaging main character within the constraints of the TF parsing system, which is simplified (pruned variations and TFs) and easier (improved parsing engine) compared to CoC1.

The whole point of a blank slate is for you to fill it in. The appeal is creating a character to go on this journey, making choices that shape the character, and at the end of it completing an unique character. Are they a hero? A villain? A paladin? A scholar? A thug? A lech? An average person? That's for you to decide. That's why people get upset when choices are taken away and when they force dialogue upon your character that doesn't fit them. You don't have to self-insert but the point of a RPG is that you're suppose to create a character. If you find them boring, then that just mean you didn't put any effort into creating them.

I'm not very good at the whole blank slate character either, but I don't really think the sandbox allows me to do much with it anyways. There's hardly any interesting choices for your character to make. The game isn't really written in that way. About the most interesting choice is probably pure vs corrupt, but most of the corrupt are dead ends at this point.

That may just be me being bad at conceptualizing a character, utilizing the indirect dialogue, and forgetting the interesting choices. It would help to know if you could give an example character, and how you felt the game contributed to your characterization of them?

How would that work, though? You'd need some way to poke the characters and make them go.

You would read a book where no poking is required or play a VN.

I'd personally like it more if they just gave the MC a more defined character.
Like Shepard from Mass Effect. Created character, but definitely had more of a concrete persona to work with, and thus is a lot more interesting to work into the story.

I think they would have benefited from going in that direction.

I get the point of a blank slate character, I just don't think they work well in video games.

I used to play a lot of tabletop RPGs, where you actually start with a blank slate and can freely create and direct your character. That kind of freedom simply isn't possible in a videogame. That kind of character in a video game isn't really "yours", their actions are predetermined from a relatively short list.

I just don't feel any videogame is immersive enough to really roleplay a character that truly yours, which is why I prefer Geralts and Commander Shepards and such.

I think they can work well enough if you make the game about branching paths and choice, but that isn't what they went for. I agree that you will never get the amount of creative possibility that a tabletop RPG can give you though due to the limitation of how a video game works.

I'm quoting my past post below. I think it covers pretty well what I mean.

Let's consider 3 approaches:

1. Write the champion as a character with a few options sprinkled about to explore the champion's character.
   1. Goal: The champion is not the player's character, but the champion keeps the player engaged because they are a well written character. Arguably, they should be the BEST written character, with the most time placed into getting them right. This is because they are by nature of being controlled by the player going to be the most interacted with. They connect us to the world and allow us to care about it through them.
   2. The game is about understanding the champion through choice.
2. Write the champion with branching dialogue paths in mind.
   1. Goal: The champion is molded by what the player is role playing as. It won't always line up one to one with what the player thinks should be said, but it fits well enough in the limitation of the game medium.
   2. The game is about choice itself.
3. The champion has multiple personality disorder dependent on which writer is writing for them.
   1. No consistency is maintained except for vague notions of the champion having one or two adjectives describing them. The companions now become the first line of characterization.
   2. Goal: Lower the barrier to entry for community submissions and do minimum work possible as an editor.
   3. The game is about the companions.

Unfortunately, they decided to instead give parts of 1 to Cait and 3 to the champion.

If they went with 1 I don't think it would take away from sex scene variety either. IMO you could easily explain it by the champion really liking role play. Being dom/sub, masculine/feminine coded words, etc in scenes is all the champion playing an act that they think their partner likes.

You would then have to maintain personality/ideals in normal dialogue though, which the current 3 system does not. The champion should have a cultural background as well which informs how they act. For example, I find they are much too passive when dealing with Kiyoko/Kinu. A kitsune husband might act like this, but I don't see why the champion would.

Where can I find Tobs being a dipshit/bully? I keep hearing about it, and while I'm not doubting it I still wanna see it

Well, not as much about Tobs as I expected, but these posts of mine might interest you.

Tobs puts words into the PC's mouth (see response to 3rd quote):
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...0-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-5690316
Savin doesn't like Brienne:
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...alamander-studios.11371/page-120#post-7522816
Why CoC2 (and Cait) Causes Such a negative response:
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...0-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-7050191
Lore Spoilers talks about Kiyoko:
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...0-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-4510778
Savin - Mods! and the Flipper handed idiot children (in spoiler: Response to Cerneu):
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...0-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-3976892

 

[Skandranon]

You don't self insert as the main character? Do you self insert as the other NPC? Do you not self insert at all?

Does a guy playing Tomb Raider self-insert as Lara Croft? Do people "self-insert" as Arthur Morgan when playing Red Dead Redemption 2? I'd say not usually.

Self-insertion isn't ubiquitous to all video games , its usually restricted to a certain subset of them which lack well defined personalities to get in the way of thinking of "yourself" as the person in the game. I simply play all games the same way you'd play a fighting game, or Mario, or a TMNT game or something: the PC is just an entity I'm controlling.

You usually choose a game medium to deliver content where the player has agency or choice. If the main character isn't the focus, then why even have them there? Unless your goal is the choice of leaving the main character out as a fetish, I.E. voyeur or cucking?

If those aren't your goals, then I'm not sure why an interactive medium makes sense instead of writing a non interactive story about NPCs doing things.

There's a big difference between being a viewpoint character and being the center of attention. One doesn't necessitate the other. I don't like stories where it feels like one single character is the only active force of the entire universe, it makes that story seem artificial. The MC can be the focus of some scenes. The MC shouldn't be the focus of EVERY scene. I think that some stuff should happen independently of the MC's control.

For example, I think the PC being able to "deny" other character's relationship is silly. It should be something you either encourage or ignore, but not forbid. It gives you an outsized amount of control for the purpose of stroking the player's ego at the expense of the veracity of the in-game universe (and, to add, an amount of control that can't possibly be consistently replicated throughout the game).

Because they can't write an interesting player character. Them overcompensating by putting the work into characterization between NPCs doesn't solve the problem that the character that you most see interacting with other NPCs is the main character and should have the best characterization. They skimped out on quality on the main character, which has the highest quantity of screen time.

I don't really think this is true. Self-insertion is at direct odds with an interesting character, I really don't think it's possible to do both. I've seen people complain when, say, the PC declares their love for a character and the player doesn't feel the same way. I've seen people complain about the PC's tone in certain scenes, that its too angry when the player hasn't directed them that way. I myself have disliked scenes with Gweyr, where the player is sympathetic to her estrangement from her family despite me thinking she kinda deserved it.

There are too many shackles in place caused by people expectations of a self-insert character to give them an interesting personality. Gotta pick one or the other.

I'm not very good at the whole blank slate character either, but I don't really think the sandbox allows me to do much with it anyways. There's hardly any interesting choices for your character to make. The game isn't really written in that way. About the most interesting choice is probably pure vs corrupt, but most of the corrupt are dead ends at this point.

This is pretty much what I'm saying. There's not enough interesting choices to make your blank slate character take the hit in personality. And the dev team is too small to give you the amount of choices that would make it worth it, at least to me personally. Hell, multi-million dollar companies have struggled with this same thing.

Savin doesn't like Brienne:
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...alamander-studios.11371/page-120#post-7522816

Coincidentally I agree with Sav here. Characters that make the PC the center of their whole lives make me uncomfortable, because the player can't logically reciprocate, which makes the relationship seem massively unequal. I can't take the PC pretending to have a deep, lasting relationship with a single character, then turning around and saying basically the same thing to 20 other chicks while the first one waits back at home for the PC to give them some attention again. Harems kinda creep me out.

Which is why I enjoy when NPCs do their own thing sans the PC.

 

[Lord Kentus]

what
the
fuck
The first comment I click on is about Mallachian faith and Child-grooming

Well unfortunately Cait is in fact a groomer of children and her entire religion is desperately in need of updating away from its wicked, evil ways.

Seriously though, the entire thing of paying them 30k to raise children in their faith(which you figure since you are doing them the fucking favor it'd be free) pissed off a lot of people and rubbed people the wrong way, forcing kids into your religious beliefs and all.

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

Well, not as much about Tobs as I expected, but these posts of mine might interest you.

Thank you
I'll read up on these

 

[sinfool]

Wrong dawnsword.

The dawnswords are based on personality, not corruption (if you pass 75 corruption and become dark knight personality, dawnsword will unequip itself, and becoming champion personality for corrupted dawnsword will unequip that as well)

in my case my tittle already dark knight and 100 corruption, so the sword supposed to be corrupted dawnsword but it still unequiped automaticaly am I missing something or doing something wrong?

 

[TheVegnar]

-_- And everyone wonders why there is so much ;/ Hate is a strong word, but still easily describes the negative flow here.

 

[Deleted member 1660801]

How the hell is modding such a touchy subject for this game? Like is Savin's ego that big?