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mrttao

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Jun 11, 2021
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Not trying to cause drama, but I don't think Skan is saying these things are untrue. But, they haven't seen proof, so they aren't going to make a claim unless they have proof. Which by your own admission the post you had that had definitive proof was deleted by the mods. I think their just practicing restraint something that I appreciate about them.
That would be quite a sensible position.
However my impression from their posts saying "I am pretty sure" and "has no real weight behind it". Seems far more than healthy skepticism and veering into the realm of clearly taking a position on the subject.
 

Skandranon

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2016
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="mrttao, post: 9103119, member: 3799482"]
the search bar is right there.

You are making ignorant claims based on nothing but your own imagination, claiming that everyone in the thread is "surely wrong" because in your imagination it is impossible for someone to do something out of spite.
Even though there have been countless screencaps posted in this thread before

Also annoyingly they sometimes get deleted. My best cited post on the subject was deleted for some reason as offtopic. but they did leave this post intact
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...7-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-8770499
https://f95zone.to/threads/corrupti...7-savin-salamander-studios.11371/post-8771880

Just try and take a look. even just casually, and you will find a bunch of related screencaps

....that's literally the post I just talked about. There's nothing new there.

The post you made has a bunch of stuff which, quite frankly, seems to feature some pretty big leaps of logic.


> Tobs: "hey wsan, I want to write a relatively wholesome scene for Brienne"
> Wsan: "no, I want to be the only one writing her"
> Tobs: *flips his shit at being told no*
> Tobs: *secretely writes completely different scenes for Brienne than what he originally asked to do, degrading NTR scenes designed to ruin her. Hides it from Wsan, it gets quietly merged into the game by Savin*
This whole section seems a bit flimsy.

Wsan did not say he wants to be the only one writing her as far as I know. In fact, here's something he said:

```Wsan09/23/2020
i would say that loss scenes dont matter but it depends on context
Wsan09/23/2020
loss scene where brienne gets fucked - sure whatever
loss scene where some npc mindbreaks brienne and makes her say their dick is better than yours - no
```
And in fact, Brienne has other loss scenes written by other people I believe (the tavern one, for instance).

And again..."secretly writing scenes" and "quietly merging it into the game" seems to be an injection of personal flavor. They don't read each other's scenes, as I've pointed out already (and backed up by the fact of how long it took Wsan to even find out the content of the scene). They operated exactly like they always do as far as we know.

Now whether that the best system....eh.

And it kinda looks like you're jamming together unrelated events - Tobs getting turned down to write a scene for Brienne is a completely different time than Tobs getting the go ahead to write a loss scene for Brienne.

From what I understand, Tobs and Savin wanted to write Brienne threesomes, amd Wsan wants to be careful with scenes where Brienne is willingly sexing or enjoying sexing people other than the player, as seen in his quote.

So no, I don't think it went down like this from what I've seen.

> months go by
> Wsan gets complaints about the sudden tone shift for Brienne.
> Wsan deeply disturbed, exposes the whole thing. Demoralized, not sure what to do.
> Wsan says its too late to remove the scenes and after consideration he decided to not quit.
> Wsan asks savin to lock Brienne so only he can write new scenes for her
This....I have no idea where this comes from. Demoralized? Deeply disturbed? Not sure what to do? Considers quitting?

Where did any of that come from?

The only words I've ever seen from Wsan were more a brief expression of mild annoyance at worst. This certainly isn't backed up by any of these screencaps I've seen.

Did any of this come from those deleted posts?

> Savin: Hey wsan buddy, can I get an exception to the lock. I want to write a scene for Brienna.
> Wsan: No, I want to be her sole writer
> Savin: Throws a public tantrum, explicitly stating it is over that refusal, saying Brienne is "dead to him".
As you noted later, this happened way before any of the other stuff, and as I mentioned, was Savin wanting to write a Brienne threesome. This other stuff is like a year later, and there's nothing really connecting them.

Several members of the team, including Savin, have mentioned that Savin doesn't actually review trusted writers content (ie Wsan and Tobs). Just looks them over to see if anything major is wrong then turns them over to code.

I dont think Savin has anything to do with the situation at all.
 

mrttao

Forum Fanatic
Jun 11, 2021
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This....I have no idea where this comes from. Demoralized? Deeply disturbed? Not sure what to do? Considers quitting?

Where did any of that come from?
From quotes of wsan.
He explicitly said that after a lot of thinking, he finally decided to not quit as a dev over this issue.

honestly I am starting to get fed up with the censorship. I really wish they didn't delete so many posts as "off topic".
 

Skandranon

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2016
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That would be quite a sensible position.
However my impression from their posts saying "I am pretty sure" and "has no real weight behind it". Seems far more than healthy skepticism and veering into the realm of clearly taking a position on the subject.
"Pretty sure" is honestly a fairly noncommittal stance, man. I could be wrong, and have left plenty of room to acknowledge I could be wrong.

I certainly never said anyone was "surely wrong", not sure why you put that in quotes.

You're being extremely confrontational about a subject where you weren't being attacked, or even mentioned, and I don't see any reason for that level of vitriol.

If I'm wrong, that's fine.
 
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WazaQQXOXO

Member
Jul 10, 2021
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"Let me get this straight, you think this guy, this 999 strength/0 intelligence guy, who spends his days beating people to a pulp with his bare hands and then raping them, is a filthy barbarian, and your plan (you=guy from isolationist village out in the middle of nowhere) is to talk shit to this person?"

You nod.


Kitsune rolled worse for intelligence than my guy, holy shit.
Everybody’s gangsta until you run in an absolute unit of an haggy whacko.
12B8BDCD-A80D-4838-9684-5240D01FC331.png
 

Kroenen12

Member
May 25, 2020
453
2,599
Tobs was praising Brienne for being a subtle example of corruption - and as I pointed out then, Wsan agrees with him (Wsan mentioned the only reason it doesn't give corruption points is because the PC might not know the result, even if the player does). They are on the same page.
uhhhh no
Screenshot_1.png
and...
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From quotes of wsan.
He explicitly said that after a lot of thinking, he finally decided to not quit as a dev over this issue.
source?
6k38kq5t81z81.jpg
 

Skandranon

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Nov 28, 2016
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Ooof, maybe on the same page was a bridge to far.

But, I think the point of contention isn't so much on whether it was a corrupt/immoral act, it was whether the PC can reasonably be assumed to know about it. Tobs is saying the PC should definitely catch on and do something, Wsan disagrees.


Post in thread 'Wsan CoC2 content'

He's saying here the only reason it isn't giving corruption points is that wiggle room, so I think it stands to reason if the PC is aware of what they're doing, it's corrupting.

But geez, no wonder we're not getting much corruption content if this is the thought process they're taking, huh?
 

Wrynn13

Active Member
Apr 11, 2018
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I think the corruption scale should be pretty easy, altering people or their fate is corrupting them/ their path. Give less corruption for things they want like breasts and butt potions for Etheryn and a lot for shoving a couple in bimbo honey. But that would mean more of a focus on changing others and that just smells too much like a power fantasy for these devs...
 

fetishgirl

Member
Jan 13, 2019
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687
Tobs was praising Brienne for being a subtle example of corruption - and as I pointed out then, Wsan agrees with him (Wsan mentioned the only reason it doesn't give corruption points is because the PC might not know the result, even if the player does). They are on the same page.



Wasn't any worse than a bunch of kids getting bumped off, which he also wrote. It's not like Tobs can't do different things, but he clearly likes and gravitate towards the edge.




I don't know what you mean about Hirrud. Savin did Hirrud afaik.



I mean, we can believe whatever we want, but its still basically inventing drama. Wsan never claimed Tobs did it to spite him, noone did in fact, and there's nothing to even be spiteful about. There's no reason for Tobs to be jealous of Brienne considering he has the more popular character.

The simpler and more likely explanation is...Tobs is Tobs and writes whatever Tobs wants without regards to how well it fits in.

Its what we talk about him doing basically all the time anyway...
I will try not to go too off topic with this and keep this as my final response.

You could be right on the first point but I am going off actual quotes posted on here from the discord I am sorry I can't find them again myself but that is where my belief come from. If you can find quotes supporting your claim I will happily concede your point here.

I know this might be controversial but the kid killing thing didn't seem that bad to me within context as I don't know the characters had no connection to them so to be honest I didn't care what Gweyr did. Also lets be honest prior to the start of CoC there was a lot of killing in Mareth from the demons so I think people are a little harsh on ToBS for this particular point. Any party member being broken in front of my player character has way more impact especially in the context of quotes from ToBS from discord.

It isn't just Hirrud but against the pro Kinu incest crowd after all ToBS comissioned artists to draw random Kitsune fuck both Kinu and Asagiri. ToBS creates drama out of spite and publically berates colleagues like Bubblelord. I am no fan of Bubblelord and think ToBS has a point but there are better ways of dealing with that kind of situation. ToBs has history of doing this.

Like I said my beliefs are based on quotes leaked from the discord it isn't a conspiracy I or others created in our heads. To be fair petty or spiteful behavior never makes sense. I am not saying you are wrong and I think you are right but he is on record for being a spiteful person. I think both our viewpoints can be true at the same time.

On more positive news what major content will come next is it the Alante arena stuff? We have had a lot of misses this year but I am hoping it will end the year on a high note.

:EDIT: Just saw Kroenen coming in clutch with their post. Also great follow up post from Skandranon too. Really the best thing about CoC 2 right now is this thread :D
 
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Skandranon

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Nov 28, 2016
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But seriously, no point in really dwelling on the subject. Dunno why I spoke on it in the first place; I really usually just don't care about dev drama one way or the other.

Anyway, the next major content is Lumia quest, being coded now. New soulbound transformation (only Nareva left after this), a bunch of new characters, new goddess to interact with and thus probably a bunch of new lore, etc. Supposed to be pretty beefy, and Alypia and Gardeford have been working on it for like a year, so it'll probably be a few patches worth of stuff.

It'll also have Alypia's second actual full character after Serena. and I really liked Serena. Alypia is pretty much the only writer who actually seems to go for romances that actually develops in stages (based on the one example I got) so I'm pretty interested to see this.

Also, since Wsan is still tied up on Brihaus, I don't think the arena is coming anytime too soon. Pretty sure at this point KM is going to extend into mid-2023, as I'm pretty sure we've only hit the halfway point. Still have the slums and the noble quarter to go; and there's supposed to be a bar, another brothel, the arena, the palace, and a KM dungeon somewhere in there.
 

Walk Cycle

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Dec 18, 2018
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Holy fuck nobody tell TOBS
I don't get why Savin and Tobs keeps dunking on TiTS about bars and shops being having fuckable owners/employees. TiTS takes place on a corporate hedonist dystopia where body modification is a hobby, alien species who independently evolved in different planets can cross-breed, and almost every sapient race you meet has pheromones that can get you into a fuck-frenzy, and they come in different shapes and sizes! Hell, can get you horny if you hold onto it long enough. Why is it weird if most people are dtf?
 

MoneyMan181

Active Member
Sep 6, 2019
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I don't get why Savin and Tobs keeps dunking on TiTS about bars and shops being having fuckable owners/employees. TiTS takes place on a corporate hedonist dystopia where body modification is a hobby, alien species who independently evolved in different planets can cross-breed, and almost every sapient race you meet has pheromones that can get you into a fuck-frenzy, and they come in different shapes and sizes! Hell, can get you horny if you hold onto it long enough. Why is it weird if most people are dtf?
IIRC it's not that the vendors were dtf, but the places in question are uninspiring and boring when it comes to fleshing out the world. Least I think that's what TOBS said. Though I don't think anybody on this dev team should try and give lessons about world-building when they're using the most cookie-cutter High Fantasy setting with characters and locations as flat as a board.
 
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Walk Cycle

Active Member
Dec 18, 2018
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IIRC it's not that the vendors were dtf, but the places in question are uninspiring and boring when it comes to fleshing out the world. Least I think that's what TOBS said.
I think that just means Tobs can't write a decent shopkeep :KEK:

Also I don't think people should get world building advice from the main writer of the weeb donut steel race. Makes me miss the Kitsune from the original CoC, just a bunch of devious tricksters and seductresses that will show you a good time.
 

Orphanus

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Oct 25, 2019
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I think that just means Tobs can't write a decent shopkeep :KEK:

Also I don't think people should get world building advice from the main writer of the weeb donut steel race. Makes me miss the Kitsune from the original CoC, just a bunch of devious tricksters and seductresses that will show you a good time.
Well, Business owners and their customers usually talk a lot with each other, so... :unsure:
 

Skandranon

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Nov 28, 2016
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Also of note that the Valk transformation won't be for male characters. Idk if that means you just can't get it, or it will turn you into a female or futa if you're male.

The Nareva transformation will be futa/dickgirl I think.
 
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muschi26

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Jun 22, 2019
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Also of note that the Valk transformation won't be for male characters. Idk if that means you just can't get it, or it will turn you into a female or futa if you're male.

The Nareva transformation will be futa/dickgirl I think.
Are Valk and Nareva new races? or characters?
 

Orphanus

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Oct 25, 2019
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Are Valk and Nareva new races? or characters?
Valkyries are a race in the frost area, Nareva is another goddess and gets her own "deal" thing, where the player character gives her their soul & gets transformed (like the Kitsune thing).
 
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