VN RPGM Currency of Damnation [v0.5] [Crazy Chameleon]

[brorpag]

Any news?

 

[Drakan47]

From discord, bad news, but at least the project isn't fully dead

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

... Sounds like someone simply doesn't have what it takes to see his projects through to the end.
Why bother starting them, then? I'll never understand this.

 

[Eepy Poss]

... Sounds like someone simply doesn't have what it takes to see his projects through to the end.
Why bother starting them, then? I'll never understand this.

People are full of piss and vinegar when they first start because the idea is fresh and they're pumped to make it a reality. And then the tedious part of learning how to code and making all the assets and constantly bug testing and fixing starts to set in the reality of what you signed up for and you realize as a single person that it is an absolute fuck ton of work and it drains you mentally. Changing it to a VN is such a lazy cop out though, you might as well do something completely different entirely. Even then making something in renpy, depending on how complex you want it, can be just as draining and tedious if hes expecting it to be easier.

 

[Crazy_Chameleon]

People are full of piss and vinegar when they first start because the idea is fresh and they're pumped to make it a reality. And then the tedious part of learning how to code and making all the assets and constantly bug testing and fixing starts to set in the reality of what you signed up for and you realize as a single person that it is an absolute fuck ton of work and it drains you mentally. Changing it to a VN is such a lazy cop out though, you might as well do something completely different entirely. Even then making something in renpy, depending on how complex you want it, can be just as draining and tedious if hes expecting it to be easier.

No you know what I wrote a wall of text explaining my situation but I'm just tired. I'm sorry i dissapointed all of you, I really am. I dissapointed myself. But I at least do want to make SOMETHING out of all the characters and artwork I've acquired something i can actually reasonably finish. I hope you all understand that this isn't a decision I've taken lightly or it's soemthing I would have already done a year ago. A lot happened since I started this project. And my financial situation is precarious at best. Also some of your criticisms really are justified. Twice now I've tried to make a game with a very large scope and twice now I've failed. Rather than simply denegrate me for that. Please understand I simply can no longer afford to dedicate the sheer time required for a game with the kind of scope the og cod had. Here's some random brainsplurge on my plans moving forward. If you haven't completely lost faith in me I'd honestly appreciate your feedback. I know it won't be the game I promised. But I'd still like to make a game that you enjoy.

The basic premise of the plot will change with the protagonist being a human who was changed into a Demon Lord. With Nanaya staying in the background until later in the game. This time it will be absinthe doing the deed. With Absinthe's human form being that of a friend you had growing up. Gurthamaw is sitll involved but the exact nature of his involvement I don't want to spoil. But he will be a bigger influence on the early story rather than being shelved and coming back later. He will still have a bond with the protagonist.The game's themes will change to include corruption and incest. Which is why I'll be leaving patreon behind so I can do harder stuff without being nanny'ed. Of course incest will be optional. The basic premise is that the protagonists presence slowly corrupts the women aroudn them making them lose inhibition and turning them into monsters. Sharing will still be in the game as will futa male stuff. I don't plan to compromise on the themes I originally wanted. Of course these will all be optional though. The idea will be that the world has already fallen to light. And that monsters are forced to live in escape from LA style exclusion zones. With the early portiosn of the game being about subverting the inside of the exclusion zones. Corrupting key officials and bringing the various monster factions onto your side.

The basic structure of the game will be a branching path style. Similar to games like majikoi but rather than paths being alternate timelines. There are going to be actions during certain parts that will effect the story or enable/disable certain characters according towhat you choose to do. And since this is no longer an rpg but a visual novel. I plan to alter dialogue more depending on the characters morality. The basic plot will always be the same. But endings and the nature of dialogue will change according to your behaviour. And the fate of certain characters could be quite different depending on your choices. I don't intend to make this a 'say happy thing and get +1 character point.' game.

I'd be more than interested in your feedback on the idea.

 

[Eepy Poss]

But sure I'm lazy I guess .. I haven't had a day off work in 2 years ..

I get where the frustration comes from as a solo developer, but I'm merely pointing out that people just starting out never realize the scope of the project they're working on and just want to strike while the iron is hot, there is nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that theres an expectation for the project now and if you were to downsize it to a VN then the target audience changes because people looking for an interactive RPG are probably not gonna stick around for a kinetic visual novel. You could put this project on hiatus and work on something completely different if you wanted to and attract a different audience while still having this project to come back to later on if time and money permit it.

Also my point was that making a VN doesn't make it an easier task, just a different one. There's still a lot going on under the hood and unless you want to simplify it to the point where choices don't matter then you'll probably need to look up fuck tons of tutorials to do things like adding python blocks or even just adding simple things like animations. You'll still be writing thousands of lines in renpy script, keeping track of values, trouble shooting errors that shouldn't break the game but are, etc, so it sounds like an easier task but its still tedious all the same. You do you, man, it's your project, but don't think that making it into a VN is going to make things easier.

 

[Crazy_Chameleon]

I get where the frustration comes from as a solo developer, but I'm merely pointing out that people just starting out never realize the scope of the project they're working on and just want to strike while the iron is hot, there is nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is that theres an expectation for the project now and if you were to downsize it to a VN then the target audience changes because people looking for an interactive RPG are probably not gonna stick around for a kinetic visual novel. You could put this project on hiatus and work on something completely different if you wanted to and attract a different audience while still having this project to come back to later on if time and money permit it.

Also my point was that making a VN doesn't make it an easier task, just a different one. There's still a lot going on under the hood and unless you want to simplify it to the point where choices don't matter then you'll probably need to look up fuck tons of tutorials to do things like adding python blocks or even just adding simple things like animations. You'll still be writing thousands of lines in renpy script, keeping track of values, trouble shooting errors that shouldn't break the game but are, etc, so it sounds like an easier task but its still tedious all the same. You do you, man, it's your project, but don't think that making it into a VN is going to make things easier.

Unfortunatly that's not something I can really afford to do. I can't NOT use the art assets I have and continue development. But I understand where you are coming from. If my financial situation changes it's not like CoD is the only good story I can ever think of. I understand that I will lose some people who really wanted what I was making and all I can say is I'd love to be able to deliver that but I can't. I had 20 years of my life and the security it provided go up in smoke. And I can't just sink another 20 years in and even if I do it won't be the same as when I was young. The world and the circumstances I'm in just aren't the same.

I also understand that a VN isn't necessarily easier. But by far FAR it is earier for ME. Because I believe storytelling is where my strength lies. Honestly the rpg aspects of the game as much as I enjoyed them when done always felt like pulling teeth. Because frankly .. I'm not GOOD at them. They also don't really motivate me artistically. I don't get the same sense of reward and I feel like I'm doing them for no reason and just frustrating you when they are bad to engage with. The fact that I'm not good at them also makes them take up more time than you'd think proportionately speaking. I feel like I'm engaged in a sisyphean task. Putting a lot of effort in and getting no reward for it.

 

[brorpag]

Honestly i think its great news! very very few people play these games for the rpgm combat or clicking around trying to figure out where to go. Id much rather the developer conts the story then worry about combat and balancing etc etc.

 

[Crazy_Chameleon]

Sorry to double post but also in my plans are that there will be no patreon no subscribestar no early access or incentives for at least the first six updates. I will simply post them free for anyone who wishes to play them. After everything I don't want to make any more false promises. This is in the end an experiment. I hope you will play the new version when it comes out. and decide for yourself if you think it's worth your time or not.

 

[Eepy Poss]

I'd be more than interested in your feedback on the idea.

I can tell you from experience in using renpy and having a friend that is currently doing a really big project in renpy is that the scope of what you're describing is still really gargantuan. Assuming I'm picking up what you're putting down, to have different dialogues based on morality alignment alone would mean you would, in an ideal situation, end up having a set of positive dialogue and negative dialogue and if you were to be thorough with it a third set of neutral dialogue. That's already 2 or 3 times the work you would normally have to do in a normal kinetic based visual novel style. This is on top of having a tracker for specifically morality value in order to determine that and the range of what dictates a positive and negative morality and where the neutral lay. This would also mean attaching morality modifiers to all sorts of dialogue options in order to give players a chance to move up and down the values. If you were to take that a step further and have characters have a preference on morality then well, its just adding more complications to the whole thing.

Having different branching paths that will alter the story and even outright remove characters can easily become an overwhelming task on keeping track of everything in general from what affects which characters and again, having trackers on everything in order to keep track of when a character should be removed or added or what have you. Multiple endings alone is a hard task to do and honestly a project like this the way you describe it would still end up taking years if you wanted it to actually be good without resorting to a kinetic style where choices barely matter because it all comes back to the main storyline either way.

Do you have any experience in using renpy? If you don't then honestly the start might become incredibly frustrating trying to figure things out because as old as renpy is it sometimes can be a difficult task trying to find tutorials for all sorts of complicated mechanics, some of which might end up have you learning some python to do it. Really depends on the complexity you want to go for and how far you want to take it. Honestly if you really want to go the VN route you should probably do a kinetic novel first in order to learn more about renpy and keep the project small so you don't set yourself up for a disappointing failure if you find yourself 5 years into a project and cant see yourself finishing it. That's just my take on it though, other people can chime in with their opinions on the future of your content.

Sorry to double post but also in my plans are that there will be no patreon no subscribestar no early access or incentives for at least the first six updates. I will simply post them free for anyone who wishes to play them. After everything I don't want to make any more false promises. This is in the end an experiment. I hope you will play the new version when it comes out. and decide for yourself if you think it's worth your time or not.

I think cutting out patreon and substar is just shooting yourself in the foot. If you're looking to see a project through and also try to stay afloat, have you considered just pumping out general content as well? Like, your art style is good and nice to look at and you could probably attract an audience for it with stand alone images or even a comic or two. Anything to give content to supporters while also pursuing a project on the side. Patreon and substar has never really been a project focused platform but a "support me if you like me" sort of thing so treating it like you HAVE to make a fully fledged product instead of being a content creator and/or artist feels like you're just needlessly limiting yourself. Make some comics, do some pinups, do an animation, put out content people can enjoy paying for without putting so much pressure on yourself by putting all your eggs into a make it or break it basket.

Like I said before though, they're your projects and your ideas. In the end you do what you gotta do, my dude. If that's what you feel confident in and what you think is the right decision then go for it I guess.

 

[Crazy_Chameleon]

Well i was already doing that to some extent with CoD og on top of everything else. I think perhaps branching paths is the wrong word. Rather the root of the game will be a single map where the player can sart visual novel modules. With the structure resembling a tree. Rather than branching based on mutual exlusivity. Certain paths my open or close depending on your answers. And certain content might change depending on the order in which the branches were played. To do this i just need to keep track of switches depending on which content has been viewed. And what relationships are active.

I don't want to underplay your warning about overreaching though. Perhaps you are right about that. In the end I will probably try it and if it feels like too much work I will do something else. But I want to keep the idea of a tree like story. The issue with player morality is it's very relevant to the players behaviour so it's by far the most work. With lots of unique dialogue being needed. However whether or not other modules have been played is only situationally relevant. So perhaps it would be a good idea to keep that but ditch the idea of scultping your own protagonist?

 

[wrarar]

hey dev if you can read this...you did an amazing job so far. thanks.

 

[Eepy Poss]

Sounds like you wanna do a lot of stuff with click maps and such. Kind of annoying to set up but once you get the hang of it you'll only have to set up the one map with the interactables. Also, the way the player affects the world through their interactions already kind of accomplishes that with the way the dialogue would be modified by which tags are triggered by what so adding the ability to sculpt your player through your actions is already covered by that already, there would probably be no need to add in actual morality values to keep track of if being an asshole, as an example, would cut you off from interacting with a specific branch of the tree and the trigger caused from being an asshole modified what you saw next in the next area you selected. It might not feel like work now but you wont know until you try it. Who knows, you might be absolutely goated with renpy, or you might slowly learn how tedious it is once you start to get into the meat and potatoes of it. Whatever your choice, good luck with it, man.

Also just to touch up on the content bit, I'm also referring to things like fan art and such, let people get to know your personal tastes with comics and pics about whatever franchise you might like or something and pull in some attention from individuals who might share similar tastes and interests. Doesn't have to necessarily be content about CoD to be used for updates and such on the pay sites. Just some food for thought.

 

[Crazy_Chameleon]

Sounds like you wanna do a lot of stuff with click maps and such. Kind of annoying to set up but once you get the hang of it you'll only have to set up the one map with the interactables. Also, the way the player affects the world through their interactions already kind of accomplishes that with the way the dialogue would be modified by which tags are triggered by what so adding the ability to sculpt your player through your actions is already covered by that already, there would probably be no need to add in actual morality values to keep track of if being an asshole, as an example, would cut you off from interacting with a specific branch of the tree and the trigger caused from being an asshole modified what you saw next in the next area you selected. It might not feel like work now but you wont know until you try it. Who knows, you might be absolutely goated with renpy, or you might slowly learn how tedious it is once you start to get into the meat and potatoes of it. Whatever your choice, good luck with it, man.

Also just to touch up on the content bit, I'm also referring to things like fan art and such, let people get to know your personal tastes with comics and pics about whatever franchise you might like or something and pull in some attention from individuals who might share similar tastes and interests. Doesn't have to necessarily be content about CoD to be used for updates and such on the pay sites. Just some food for thought.

Oh believe it or not I plan on keeping on using RPGM. I've seen quite a few good visual novels like tyrant quest use it. And it provides easy to use interfaces for variable tracking. And the mapping interface is already built in so no need to 'click map.' I just won't be using the combat or mapping portions of the engine extensively. But it's nice having them just there for if I ever want to use them. And I'd have to learn renpy from absolute scratch. Plus some of the assetts I plan to use are free only when using the rpm engine. And I think you're right if I already have another choice driven system then adding character morality on top of that is a layer of mess I really don't need. So I'll be taking that advice.

And I'll take that under advisement about the other content

 

[Crazy_Chameleon]

hey dev if you can read this...you did an amazing job so far. thanks.

Thanks that's honestly appreciated and I hope you'll enjoy what's to come too.

 

[UnDeaD_CyBorG]

I am very sad to see this go.
CoD was a rare sight, an actual game, well written, with a genuinely interesting backstory raising questions.
It would be a pity if it's never brought to a satisfying conclusion. But, at the same time, I can appreciate your honesty in telling us that time and money make it an unrealistic proposition, and I understand that you want to reuse the assets you've made or acquired.
I had some good evenings with the game; Thank you for making it as far as you did.

As for your new project: We'll see. But best of luck! You deserve it.

 

[Crazy_Chameleon]

Update : 8 VN scenes and the first H_Scene is now squared away. Ideally rather than release partial chapters I'd like to release it in much shorter chapters. (Expect the final game to have a high count.) I'm planning to have the first chapter be from start of game - Demon Lord transformation. So essentially the game's intro chapters. I'm aiming to have something you can play by the end of the month.

Ah sorry edited post instead of made new one. Really tired. All I said was this is still COD just Alt universe COD XD Rest was a quote.

 

[Tonsorial Alchemist]

Dangnabbit! I was really enjoying this unique story with its lively cast of characters. Happy to hear we'll be seeing them in an Elseworlds VN. Best of luck with your endavors!