Ren'Py Completed Damsels and Dungeons [v1.2.41 Remastered] [Amaraine]

3.60 star(s) 33 Votes
Apr 21, 2018
455
484
First, I respect your desire to keep to your vision of your own game. And I understand that you feel that the choices you've made are right for that vision. I do not wish to intrude on your terriortory, please understand I only wish to express on what I felt was amiss with my experience with the game.
That said, I cannot see the reason for some of the decisions you and your team have made regarding the gameplay.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kaorok
Jan 12, 2019
53
117
Scaling in RPG games are, imo, the worse game mechanic since reducing your carry weight limit then add more skills to increase it. And I'll write here the reasons why I think it is:
1. it defeats the point of a leveling systems, and robs the satisfaction of progression away from players.
2. it does not result in more interesting interactions, just longer and more repetitive ones.
3. it's actually harder to make it balanced.

Why? Because:
A. a leveling system exists because it's supposed to represent, in a RPG system, characters getting better at what they do. So I ask you, what do you a compare character's abilities to for references? Numbers on a screen or how they perform in the game? In older RPGs if a character was level 1 and gets killed by a level 10 Orc Marauder, you know why. If the same character got to level 15 you should be reasonably sure that that character now has the means it needs to beat that level 10 Orc.
With scaling, a level 1 player is only marginally better than a level 10 player because the mob it's up against is scaled to its level.
B. A natural result of A: the higher leveled the player character is, the higher the enemies' levels must be, is that it is actually worse for the players to have higher level characters. On higher levels, a player might have more tools, but the game most also account for those new tools. Oh you got this ability to do 10 damage to all enemies and has a 3 turn CD? I guess I'll just have to multiply the enemy hp by 3 to compensate -- well I guess but it also makes that ability pointless, odds are at that point straight up attacks are better. Nothing new happens, just the same old thing, but now, you gotta deal 3x the damage.
C. A natural deduction from B is that, balancing a game is more than just playing with scalars. This is especially true when a game has, say, 18 classes each with different abilities. I've seen no game doing it right -- not even witcher where shit got annoying beyond lv.50 and only one or two builds are viable anymore because some monsters can now one-two shot Geralt whereas they couldn't before.

Solutions? Why, it's never easier:
Just add new, stronger enemy types with new abilities into encounters according player party level.
I. It solves A because it does not entirely remove low level grunts, something higher level character can probably defeat easily, and it makes leveling up low level characters possible without them dying to high level enemies late-game.
II. It solves B because now there are new and fresh things in an encounter. For example, in a specific encounter in say, a orcoid-infested forest, instead of having a 50% chance to face 3 lv.3 goblins and 1 lv.5 goblin chief at party level 4-15, or whatever, there is now a 33.3% chance for a group of 2 lv.3 goblin, 2 lv.10 Orcs at party level 24 (with the other one also 1/3 chances of happening). Say at party lv.60, you have a small chance of facing 2 lv.10 Orcs, 1 lv.20 Orc Shaman and 1 lv.25 Orc Warchief. Look, it's almost as if you are fighting a mini-boss battle in a random encounter now.
III. Now there are no scalars to worry about. Sure it's not a sure thing. But you can be reasonably sure that every single enemy is exactly how you want them to be regardless of player character levels. It may seem more work, but it's actually less to deal with because things don't have a million different states due to changes in the scalars.
This is the method most old RPG games used. And to this day, games like Dark Souls (NG) and Darkest Dungeons still use it. Because it's deceptively simple to balance. And it really just takes 1 or maybe 2 new behaviors for a stronger version of an enemy type to make it work, the rest is just static numbers tweaking.

What duh? Sounds like headaches:
Not really. A table is often enough for this sort of thing.
[[type_1_mobs_1, type_1_mobs_2, type_1_mobs_3, ...],
[type_2_mob_1, type_2_mob_2, type_2_mob_3, ...],
[type_3_mob_1, ...],
...]
And just have a switch statement to random.choice a group from a row on the table based on party levels.
There's also what I know as the "Yahtzee method". Basically have a list of enemies for a biome/dungeon/room/etc.. Mod the party level by a constant, say 5, so it will take 5 whole levels for encounters to change. Select from the range [party_level //5 + 3] so only enemies from index 1 to index 4 are encountered for a given level. You loss old enemy encounters later on but as long as you pad the list out with duplicates properly (to avoid out of bound errors, you'll also need a hard level cap) you void having to populate a mess of a table.

Holy shit, that's a shit load. But I just gotta say I don't hate balance in games, I just really, really hate enemy scaling as a mechanic. It seems like a magical band-aid, but it really isn't. It's at best a plaster to cover up the underlying ugliness of the inherent disconnect between leveling mechanics and challenge in games.
While I suspect some of your points we agree on... there are also other factors that honestly have a greater weight in this situation. Why, without magic items, have I not observed an increase in stats for party members at level up? Or as enemies scale replace older magic equipment with magic equipment that boosts stats higher? Keep in mind this comes from starting a completely new game and then going through the process from the ground up. So while the enemy scales... what are they scaling against? A level #? That is most likely the largest issue I'd call into question at this point in time. A prime example is the Sorc. Int and Dex are the largest targeted increases for stats from items to increase damage output from an increase in enemy HP. Her Constitution, thus, doesn't really see anything. Or even the Valk's heal on kill not increasing the amount it gives back based on level when a kill is performed.

At the same time, one will find themselves in a situation of always having to keep a character around that is capable of healing. Even from start. I have ran into a small patch where that is unnecessary and you have that brief freedom, but the window is small. Thus you're forced to maintain a healing force at all times and the lack of increase from the Valk's own heal on kill invalidates the ability. Thus the player is required to take steps specifically to recruit healers for the actual party, which is a mixture of random or going to areas and slogging through things earlier than one may desire to build effective teams based solely around healers and at least one isn't really capable of pushing out what is needed the higher the progression.

The attempt at the change is understandable; previously you hit a point and could decimate enemies. The issue it caused was a greater necessity to balance these things out more effectively. Scaling can work, it just requires a dynamic method in which to balance the game out instead of a static method. Thus factors that a static system doesn't really need to focus on become more critical in a dynamic system such as scaling.

With that said, I will say the Dev of this particular project ISN'T like most; where they use a lack of balance as an excuse to claim "challenge." Worked as a tester once for games and actually worked directly with a Game Designer to help balance out some of the game. So have a decent amount of insight on how various systems work. Add to that the mountain of systems I've dealt with in other regards... systems become easy to understand.
 
Jan 12, 2019
53
117
@deviantfiend999

I agree with you. I hate the way scaling is done in most games, and the way it makes leveling pointless. The idea that at level 5 I fight an orc, and then at level 15 I fight the same orc and it's exactly as hard, drives me nuts. Back in classic WoW, I used to really enjoy stopping by Morbent Fel and killing him (once I was 60) just because I was passing through, because that mob killed me sooooo many times leveling up. Leveling should mean something.

And so, I don't even like the idea of having different tables by level -- the names of the monsters might be changed, but the effect is the same, right? You got to be higher level, the monsters are harder as a result, and you got no where, except to get different names for the monsters.

But, in any case, this is based on a misconception about scaling in Damsels. The monsters don't get tougher in response to party level -- they get tougher in response to turns played -- and not as fast as your first characters do. The good news there is that progress is real -- and necessary. The bad news is that if you want to start a whole new group of adventurers on day 120, the game is a lot tougher for them than it was when you started out. They also don't get infinitely tougher forever -- most, if not all of the scaling, tops out, so you can catch up again.

TLDR; Yes, scaling by level sucks and robs the satisfaction of progression. But that's not what happens in Damsels.
I'd say the day scaling is a bit brutal from one aspect. Thankfully it can be compensated for by changing up teams a bit. Using much older peppered in with newer. Never ran a completely new team out like that, but I would say that is rather brutal to do in the event a player does send out an entirely brand new team.

This would also explain the small windows where I have encountered a bit more freedom. Though I think my last post still does ask the adequate question, what the the enemies scaling against? At the same time, one could argue the day situation could easily result in punishing the player for simply being choosy in regards to who they recruit.
 

Sleeping In Pieces

Active Member
Mar 16, 2019
944
820
Just trying this game out and it's fairly engaging. Solid props for the developer.

Couple of questions:
Do Belts and Amulets add any stats aside from Fetishes? Like for example do they add to Defense or Attack?
Are Fabled items considered to be higher quality Magic items and are there other levels above these two?
 

Evangelion-01

Devoted Member
Apr 12, 2018
10,317
6,915
Just trying this game out and it's fairly engaging. Solid props for the developer.

Couple of questions:
Do Belts and Amulets add any stats aside from Fetishes? Like for example do they add to Defense or Attack?
Are Fabled items considered to be higher quality Magic items and are there other levels above these two?
From what I remember fabled and magic items either grant more fetishes and/or increase certain stats
 

Sleeping In Pieces

Active Member
Mar 16, 2019
944
820
From what I remember fabled and magic items either grant more fetishes and/or increase certain stats
Rings tend to increase an ability score on top of adding a fetish(i.e. Ring of Strength and Submission). I don't see similar Magic and Fabled amulets or belts doing that.

That's what got me thinking. Is there a difference between a fetish granted by a Magic item vis a vis one granted by a Fabled item?
What about weapons and armor? Are the stat modifiers different?
 

Evangelion-01

Devoted Member
Apr 12, 2018
10,317
6,915
normal equipment only adds a fetish or increases lust gain if she already has that fetish.
There are unique items that grant several fetishes.
And there are magical items as already descripted... the names make the differences here
 

Winterz

Newbie
Jul 14, 2018
62
134
Amaraine -
Getting an error after Felicity runs away. Can ignore it and keep progressing. Tried her home town and she's not there. Is there someplace I need to go to rescue her? I already have her sister.

Thanks!
 
Jan 12, 2019
53
117
Rings tend to increase an ability score on top of adding a fetish(i.e. Ring of Strength and Submission). I don't see similar Magic and Fabled amulets or belts doing that.

That's what got me thinking. Is there a difference between a fetish granted by a Magic item vis a vis one granted by a Fabled item?
What about weapons and armor? Are the stat modifiers different?
There may be one or two, but I can't recall, in terms of fabled items. Honestly, nothing aside from rings really effect your stats, unless it is Sexuality. Giving a character an item with a fetish they already have will increase sexuality, which only has an effect on them getting horny and you getting mana from getting you, them, or both off. You do have a random encounter at one location that will also increase Sexuality... but think that is really it in terms of stat increases. Weapons and armor will give an indirect increase in terms of damage output or damage absorption... but that tends to deteriorate the more days a party is active with 1.3.

Otherwise, based on observations, items just really add fetishes and provide little more, unless weapons or armor. Then you get an indirect increase... until the enemy scales up. I've seen notable damage decreases when this occurs.

This seems fun, but is there some guide or something else that can give some helpful starter tips
Not really. As for tips, the moment you can read the game help check out the stats and traits section. You'll find there are some traits that just aren't worth having. At that point you may want to reload at certain points of character selection to get better traits. The game has a bad habit of giving you a lot of negative ones. Traits to definitely look for are Strong, Agile, Smart, and Hardy. You have to weigh those with the negatives to see if they are really worth it.

Otherwise, you'll find that when the game awards a magic item it randomly selects. Thus you may find a decent amount of save-scumming to get a decent spread. Otherwise be aware that your charm, if you use a character with that, only lasts until the end of the combat turn. An enemy charm lasts until the character is hit, thus you could have 1 or more of your heroes out of commission an entire fight once that happens.

Edit: Also, be aware you can't attack anything except the first enemy in combat with melee and ranged weapons. Only spells seem to circumvent this particular situation (i.e. charm, direct cast, or aoe).
 
Last edited:

t727

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2018
1,515
1,712
The Huntress also has a skill that can do this.
The Hunters Mark doesn't work on all single target attacks unfortunately, the upgraded version of it doesn't seem to work either (it is supposed to lower the armour but the large monters are still very hard to hit or do damage to)
 

Doc_Odd

Newbie
Jun 15, 2017
99
115
All magic items give bonuses to stats, but if they only have one stat they can give a bonus to, the game doesn't bother to tell you; it tells you the stat for rings because rings can randomly give boosts to several different stats. Shields and clothing/armor give boosts to defense, weapons either strength or dex depending on the weapon, and I don't remember all the others. Fabled items are twice as powerful as regular magic items; named magic items are three times as powerful.
 
Jan 12, 2019
53
117
The Huntress also has a skill that can do this.
Call me lazy, but I lump that into spells.

The Harbinger (Melee) can attack all enemies, and after level 2 Quest even has a chance to stun on hit
I forgot about her.

All magic items give bonuses to stats, but if they only have one stat they can give a bonus to, the game doesn't bother to tell you; it tells you the stat for rings because rings can randomly give boosts to several different stats. Shields and clothing/armor give boosts to defense, weapons either strength or dex depending on the weapon, and I don't remember all the others. Fabled items are twice as powerful as regular magic items; named magic items are three times as powerful.
Then we either have a bug or an inconsistency. Just ran from a save and equipped 2 random armor types. No change in stats at all.

Edit: And yes, that is comparing the actual number before and after.
 

Doc_Odd

Newbie
Jun 15, 2017
99
115
Then we either have a bug or an inconsistency. Just ran from a save and equipped 2 random armor types. No change in stats at all.

Edit: And yes, that is comparing the actual number before and after.
Defense bonuses (which are what you get from armor and shield) are not displayed.
 
Jan 12, 2019
53
117
Defense bonuses (which are what you get from armor and shield) are not displayed.
Opened up the save files on a character with base armor and after receiving magic armor. Flags in terms of AC bonus remain the same in between those files. So unless the information is stored at another location, then it isn't changing anything. On a side note, the character still has their original leather they came with and the magic leather applied. Given that extra bit, this is looking more like a bug. And if there is an issue clearing such things out, may be why I've not noticed changes before when acquiring items. The system isn't always flagging and/or clearing the old and replacing with new?

Also ran a test between leaving the Valk in leather in one file and purchasing chain and comparing. No change between the 0 and item bonus of one according to the file. Thus the changes aren't being applied, or the system is ignoring for the default values. Dodge values also remain the same between all files. These comparisons were ran off 1.13 saves from fresh start.
 

Sleeping In Pieces

Active Member
Mar 16, 2019
944
820
The system isn't always flagging and/or clearing the old and replacing with new?
And it's not just armor. Weapons get the same treatment too. Even after acquiring Magic or Fabled weapons the bog standard ones are still displayed on the stat sheet. Heck, I seem to remember a point where a character had both a Magic Belt and a Fabled Belt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: setter6
3.60 star(s) 33 Votes