VN Ren'Py Completed Dating My Daughter [Ch. 1-4 v1.01] [MrDots Games]

[Goatface]

In all sincerity, who said that the gaming world was a democracy? Did any of you get to decide how Minecraft played out? What about Skyrim? No? But millions of people bought them. At least here, there are polls for what thing can be added, but in the end, it's not your story to dictate. I want a threesome with F, Elena, and Jennifer, but that doesn't mean that I will get it. If I'm unhappy about that, guess what? They're are approximately 10 million games to play, other than DmD.

 

[kralkafeci]

This is an incest game that is a really dramatic story.

 

[michelangelol]

i will just throw it out to all noob devs, this is hands down one of the best visual novel i played , the team is Proffesional , amazing work *clap* *clap*

 

[Goatface]

Key words are "dictate" and "polls".
No one is any position to dictate except the dev. There would be certain risks for him to do this, but he could still insist.
A complaint can be the equivalent of "Hey! Why don't we have a poll?" about this or that.
If the voting [this is like a weighing machine measured in $] is against a person's preference, vent for a little longer and then move on (the next poll may be just around the next corner).
But this is a DISCUSSION thread. Designers come here. Players come here--as they should--to try to sort out those "10 million games". Limiting the discussion seems unsatisfactory for all concerned...

I'm not saying that the discussion should be limited. I'm saying that there's no use in some of the complaints about this game. It has a very nice following, and is very well made. If it's not to a person's taste, they can simply play something else.

 

[baka]

i feel we have a bunch of people that are almost chronic scared to have any kind of criticism of DmD, like its life and death and if we say something negative about the game it will crash and burn and we will never get another update.
why do you keep saying "go away, play another game". whats up with that? how can it be that hard to have arguments about a game? this is not team red against team blue!

DmD is a nice VN, one of the better. but not everything is perfect, at least not in my eyes. its not about saying the game is bad or it should be redone, no, its about having discussion, what if, why is that, can it be done like this or that. what about... and so on.
the game is 1 year old, if we want the game to follow the same and "successfully" pace it have, we will have to wait 10 years before its completed, that, if we keep the growing characters and interactive diversity it want to have. im fine with a long-term game, but it could be done faster if focused on DmD route (first) and add animation packs and side-story later (for non D-characters)
but thats me. and please i don't want to go away and play another game (actually im doing something else beside DmD)

 

[greyelf]

I guess the reason for fleshing out the non-D routes instead of just completing D's path first is so that people who like to see the other characters in sexual related scenes can without having to wait.
(I know that's a strange idea but some people have strange tastes.)

 

[Freki]

As a matter of fact, you do have the possibilty of dating only the daughter in this game (and many players are doing exactly that), thus preventing the story from turning into a "father wants to fuck everybody etc" VN. Others might prefer the latter kind of story though.

That aside, since the very beginning there were an "MFF threesome", an "MMF threesome" and a "lesbian" listed among the fetishes, so you should have expected that other characters would have been added to the mix. The comparison with a dragged-on kickstarter doesn't hold for this simple reason. There was no reason to expect that the whole VN would have dealed ONLY with the F&D relationship.

Just to be clear, I personally was not comparing it to a failed kick starter, just showing how one that was "successful" is worse than this.. there money was taken, a good deal of it, and not much has been received. In contrast the Patreon allows people to change their commitment monthly (or per release depending on how it's set up) and that way people have the chance to minimize things.

I agree with you completely it was there from the beginning well i joined here looking at it from i think day 5 on... If i could support I would... I try not to be a detractor and at least try to prop up the devs

 

[Luncheon]

The thing with patreon games and the likes is it falls under the same rules as a lot of businesses fall in. The investors call the shots. As an example, I worked for a local family entertainment establishment, they had bowling lanes, a decent kitchen, a bar, an arcade, etc. Fun for everyone. I also worked for a small fabrication business working with a water jet to cut materials into parts. Both owned by one man, both had investors. If anything over x amount of dollars broke, the INVESTORS had to approve how to fix it. If the INVESTORS didn't want to replace the old oven that broke own 5 times because it's old and inferior but would rather replace the part that broke they had the say. It's their money. If the fabrication business wanted to buy another jet station to expand output capacity, had to be approved by the investor.

The same can be said with these types of games, so in a way DMD is a democracy. Every single patreon is the investor, and I would imagine the devs aren't exactly making huge profits and getting secured for retirement or building safety nets and might be closer to living paycheck to paycheck than not. Just because it's dot's story to tell, doesn't mean he has control over it. That's why the polls are so important and discussion threads are important and communication is important. If 2000 investors want FFM action, we're getting it. So to say "It's not our place to say..." is kinda...well...wrong.

 

[Aitan_3]

The thing with patreon games and the likes is it falls under the same rules as a lot of businesses fall in. The investors call the shots. As an example, I worked for a local family entertainment establishment, they had bowling lanes, a decent kitchen, a bar, an arcade, etc. Fun for everyone. I also worked for a small fabrication business working with a water jet to cut materials into parts. Both owned by one man, both had investors. If anything over x amount of dollars broke, the INVESTORS had to approve how to fix it. If the INVESTORS didn't want to replace the old oven that broke own 5 times because it's old and inferior but would rather replace the part that broke they had the say. It's their money. If the fabrication business wanted to buy another jet station to expand output capacity, had to be approved by the investor.

The same can be said with these types of games, so in a way DMD is a democracy. Every single patreon is the investor, and I would imagine the devs aren't exactly making huge profits and getting secured for retirement or building safety nets and might be closer to living paycheck to paycheck than not. Just because it's dot's story to tell, doesn't mean he has control over it. That's why the polls are so important and discussion threads are important and communication is important. If 2000 investors want FFM action, we're getting it. So to say "It's not our place to say..." is kinda...well...wrong.

Please take the following reflections as my personal take on the matter, not as the official team's opinion (we have VERY different ideas on this).

At least according to Patreon's official philosophy, pledgers are not investors who are paying for a determined product (that's the difference with a kickstarter) but supporters who are backing a creator they believe into (precisely because the want to safeguard, and not limit, his artistic freedom). Something more similar to a liberal patronage of the arts (as the very name hints) than a stock sharing business. Before I started collaborating with MrDots, I had been pledging to various creators on Patreon for years, and I've always seen it that way; never tried to influence the people I was backing. That's also, btw, the reason why pirate sites like this one do not bother me too much: I'm not paying for a product (hence I do not get angry if other people get it), I'm paying to provide somebody with the freedom he/she needs to create that product, and that's enough for me. If your model is the local bowling, my model is George Martin's Game of Thrones. In one case, investors have all the rights to determine the future of the company; in the other, fans cannot presume to call the shots just because they bought some books.

Then again, the two approaches tend naturally to overlap and their confines to blur: many people do see the whole issue as you do, and I can readily admit that my view is quite idealistic and dangerously bordering on naive (Patreon itself is obviously a capitalistic enterprise set up for profit). And still, I strongly believe you always have some room for manoeuvre, without ever being completely overdetermind by "free market" rules. Akabur for example is a creator who fully shares my ideas (i.e., he couldn't care less for polls, is very wary of fans trying to condition his artistic process, etc.) and manages to run a successful Patreon page nonetheless. But he is an exception under many respects. MrDots, on the other hand, is VERY attentive to his patrons' opinions/expectations, and always tries to meet them. Up to a certain point, he does consider his backers as investors who can "call the shots" - and that's probably good for business (I guess we are lucky I'm not the boss XD). For the very same reason though, he scarcely cares (I suspect) for what people might say on a pirate board: all his consideraton goes to his backers - which makes perfectly sense, once you consider them as investors.

All in all, I'd say that the best thing to do is trying to balance the two approaches, constantly keeping in mind that every project on patreon is BOTH a for-profit enterprise and a creative endeavour.

 

[Luncheon]

I mean don't get me wrong, I completely think content creators should have total control of their pieces. My opinion on how things should work and how things work tend to differ however. Even though I personally feel Dots should do whatever he feels is best for his story, make any decision that fits his narrative...I also know I'd do the same thing and have polls because I'm trying to also make sure I can sustain my work. But that's capitalism.

 

[Maragdus]

So i rejected both Elena and Georgina but in dialogues in day 10 and 12 the game still pretends the MC has an affair with Elena is this a bug?

 

[BobBobbinston]

An act of creation should never be a Democratic process. These are porn games, so its no big deal. But Stephen King never asked his readers of Dark Tower to vote on whether Roland lives or dies etc etc. Neither would Rowling, or RR Martin. They may ask close confidants or friends when conflicted, and they have editors, but the idea of a poll of randoms on the internet dictating what happens in a story before it happens is of course crazy. Even in Business, Steve Jobs would not poll the general public on what they wanted...he knew better, so he made it, end of story.

But, if you find yourself with horny subscribers giving you money, maybe more money than you've ever had in your life...the temptation to stray from what YOU want to do and cater to a mobs popular demands is certainly understandable. Cater to popular demand = my game will stay popular = I will continue to get $$$$ every month to pay bills. I wouldn't do it (Akabur) but totally don't hate on devs who do, just ever so slightly disappointed.

 

[john_jones21]

An act of creation should never be a Democratic process. These are porn games, so its no big deal. But Stephen King never asked his readers of Dark Tower to vote on whether Roland lives or dies etc etc.

Absolutely. Design by committee will kill any project, especially a creative one.

Just some random thoughts on the game, like many others I consider it one of the best visual novels out there but also have various frustrations:

• The problem isn't the rate of progression in the game but the rate at which time passes in the real world. If DMD was delivering 4 game days per month I don't think many people would complain.
• The world world is messy and complicated. The longer the game takes to deliver the more likely it is something currently unforeseen will happen and slap the dreaded "abandoned" tag on this project. Sickness/injury is one. A more likely one is a crackdown
  
  on porn in patreon which will cut off the funding. All it takes is one media publication to draw the obvious conclusions about the ages in some of these games to force patreon to act to protect their reputation.
• With the amount of patreons the DMD team has I honestly don't know why progress is so slow.

If MrDots wants to go back and rework stuff that's fine but it shouldn't be at the expense of forward progress in the plot. If it's a problem with resources (hard to believe but still) then give us options and see what it takes to start ramping this thing up. What's needed to deliver two days per month alongside the reworking of the earlier days? Let us know and maybe I'll increase my pledge to make it happen.

The other thing is the rest of the gaming and artistic world are starting to notice how much money is flowing into this concept. The DMD concept can be endlessly milked but in ways that's beneficial to the customer and the artist

• A variant of DMD with a focus on strict romance, removing the other characters. Everyone is well meaning and pure in intent.
• A variant that's focused on manipulation
• DMD but the main character is the mother
• Dating my [family member]

And so on. Let's get going on all of this while the money is there and before someone else swoops in and takes it.

 

[Freki]

Please take the following reflections as my personal take on the matter, not as the official team's opinion (we have VERY different ideas on this).

At least according to Patreon's official philosophy, pledgers are not investors who are paying for a determined product (that's the difference with a kickstarter) but supporters who are backing a creator they believe into (precisely because the want to safeguard, and not limit, his artistic freedom). Something more similar to a liberal patronage of the arts (as the very name hints) than a stock sharing business. Before I started collaborating with MrDots, I had been pledging to various creators on Patreon for years, and I've always seen it that way; never tried to influence the people I was backing. That's also, btw, the reason why pirate sites like this one do not bother me too much: I'm not paying for a product (hence I do not get angry if other people get it), I'm paying to provide somebody with the freedom he/she needs to create that product, and that's enough for me. If your model is the local bowling, my model is George Martin's Game of Thrones. In one case, investors have all the rights to determine the future of the company; in the other, fans cannot presume to call the shots just because they bought some books.

Then again, the two approaches tend naturally to overlap and their confines to blur: many people do see the whole issue as you do, and I can readily admit that my view is quite idealistic and dangerously bordering on naive (Patreon itself is obviously a capitalistic enterprise set up for profit). And still, I strongly believe you always have some room for manoeuvre, without ever being completely overdetermind by "free market" rules. Akabur for example is a creator who fully shares my ideas (i.e., he couldn't care less for polls, is very wary of fans trying to condition his artistic process, etc.) and manages to run a successful Patreon page nonetheless. But he is an exception under many respects. MrDots, on the other hand, is VERY attentive to his patrons' opinions/expectations, and always tries to meet them. Up to a certain point, he does consider his backers as investors who can "call the shots" - and that's probably good for business (I guess we are lucky I'm not the boss XD). For the very same reason though, he scarcely cares (I suspect) for what people might say on a pirate board: all his consideraton goes to his backers - which makes perfectly sense, once you consider them as investors.

All in all, I'd say that the best thing to do is trying to balance the two approaches, constantly keeping in mind that every project on patreon is BOTH a for-profit enterprise and a creative endeavour.

actually even kickstarter does not see the backers as investors and they get very little say in the matter unless there is some blatent issues and that has only been once with so many million plus kickstarted items that are so far behind or not delivered. I see Patreon as people funding the artists no matter what and as it's usually monthly, I would also say that they have a better chance of not being stuck with a huge bill unlike kickstarter.

 

[Goatface]

An act of creation should never be a Democratic process. These are porn games, so its no big deal. But Stephen King never asked his readers of Dark Tower to vote on whether Roland lives or dies etc etc. Neither would Rowling, or RR Martin. They may ask close confidants or friends when conflicted, and they have editors, but the idea of a poll of randoms on the internet dictating what happens in a story before it happens is of course crazy. Even in Business, Steve Jobs would not poll the general public on what they wanted...he knew better, so he made it, end of story.

But, if you find yourself with horny subscribers giving you money, maybe more money than you've ever had in your life...the temptation to stray from what YOU want to do and cater to a mobs popular demands is certainly understandable. Cater to popular demand = my game will stay popular = I will continue to get $$$$ every month to pay bills. I wouldn't do it (Akabur) but totally don't hate on devs who do, just ever so slightly disappointed.

This very closely encompasses the point that I'm trying to make. As someone above stated, this is capitalism, and while money does talk, to some extent, a person's story to tell is there story, and it shouldn't be influenced by what the readers want. I write short stories. I have for years. These stories are a mixture of my life experience, and my completely overactive imagination. Taking money to change my narrative only lessens the impact of the story, because I am no longer telling MY story, but instead, a hybrid story of my life, my imagination, and the narrative to which I must conform, thanks to the highest bidder.
One of the devs mentioned above that the opinion of people on pirate sites isn't going to affect the outcome of the story. Thank you. That's the most relevant point that could have been made. IF and only if I allow my story to be narrated by the public, it's going to have to be those that are paying me to do so. In the end, in a capitalist system, there are, as I stated in an earlier post, ten million other games to choose from. If one in particular isn't your style, then there are many others out there that are. I'm not bashing anyone, I'm just saying that in the end, it's the players choice to support a game, but not so much their choice to choose the narrative of the game.

 

[vir_cotto]

I don't give a sh** about "capitalism" and all that stuff, but I believe in "artistic freedom". You can love it it, you can hate it, but artist should follow only her/his insight and imagination.

And games are work of art.

The end.

 

[baka]

vir_cotto, your argument don't hold here, as

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pointed out, Mr.Dots do listen to the patrons and with that gets "corrupted" with his insight and imagination. art and imagination is not a closed space, he gets his insight and imagination from the world, and that includes his patrons demands and everything he reads in other forums (if he do that).
he also have a team, that also gets affected by the world and their life. we are all connected.
the discussion we have here, will affect him directly or indirectly, it could be a lot or very little, but still something.
along the way, in his "insight" from 1 year ago to today, im sure he have changed a lot. we grow and change, it is impossible to keep the same thought without getting affected by time and everyday situations.
that is why, its never useless to have a discussion. its not "the end". it will never be the end, well, maybe in the end of time, but thats another story.

 

[vir_cotto]

It's normal that some things and some people influence the artist, but final decision is his. Don't see problem with that.
Basically, you just confirmed what I said - artist is creating his art piece according to his/her imagination/insight. Who or what will influence his artistic expression is his decision. And our decision is will we play it or not.

And "the end" was just my statement I said everything I thought I should said. The end of times, on the other hand, is just that - another story or, better, another fairy tale.

 

[etidhxc]

is there a release date yet?

 

[atlas114]

is there a release date yet?

did you check dev's Patreon? it's right there. (link is on the first page)