VN Others Completed Daughter for Dessert [Ch. 19] [Palmer/Love-Joint]

[phreadom]

Yes, the engine is created by us, using GMS as the platform. How the fuck are we greedy when we release everything we do for free? I'm honestly stunned at that statement. There is a rollback feature, there are cheat codes to change what you previously did without replaying that chapter. The incompatible saves isn't really our fault. We specifically state you can't (at least right now) mix online/offline saves. As for the cracked saves I don't really take responsibility for those.

You are actually the only one I've encountered that appears to be confused. You are free to enter our Discord and ask for clarification to your questions in #game-help. There is always someone that will help you, regardless if you played the free, cracked, or patreon-release.

So not your own engine?

Greedy for the reason I clearly explained. Because you're forcing the players to jump through a bunch of additional hoops so that you can try to force people to pay you more money as patrons, rather than earning it in a way that causes less trouble for them.

How are the incompatible saves not your fault? You're the one forcing them to play two totally different versions of the game in order to try forcing them to be patrons, are you not? Otherwise can you explain to me why you have two incompatible versions? Not even mentioning all the separate builds.

As for me being the only one confused... let's look at some of the comments JUST SINCE YESTERDAY.

I'm confused. If I want to play from the beginning, with incest patch, do i just download chapter 1-6 official (free) or what?

Can this be explained on the OP? @muttdoggy seems one of the more common questions

(The above refers to my explaining a point of confusion to another user's question. Noting that there are a number of common questions that keep getting asked. Odd, if nobody is confused about anything.)

Hey, new to the game. So I have to download each chapter individually?

I really dislike the setup for this game. Having each chapter a separate game means that nothing you do in previous chapters are taken into account. And I hate that. If this was set up like Sister, Sister, Sister or Dreams of Desire, that would be awesome. But as is I'm not a huge fan of this game.

Do I have to download every chapter separately and play it by that order?
also, what's the difference between cracked and free?

Not sure which one to download next i think the last one i played ended with a walk in the park

where can i find my saves? what folder to search for them?

I played 1-4 online and still it tells me that i didnt, wtf up my arse.

I would love to play this game, but every time I try the Chapter(s) doesn't work for me. So, I couldn't even do Chapter 1.

Is there a reason why its not reading my ch 5 saves? Is there a particular folder to input this. Why does the dev make it such a hassle every update

Without reading back too far, I am left somewhat confused about the transition from chapter to chapter. Is it actually possible to play each chapter, 1 to 6, without using the online version, or cracked version, or real or adopted versions etc? Or an incest patch? etc,.... Too many versions, and they are arranged in the OP as a mix-and-match pot luck for downloads.

Surely it would be better to not group them as "all chapter 1 versions, all chapter 2 versions,.. etc,.." as they are not compatible, and instead group them as "DFD adopted!, DFD online!, DFD real!" and just add further chapter versions to each of those groupings. Group them by how they work together, and not by chapter number, and that way they can have a spoiler explaining any specific needs for saving thats specific to that group of files. It doesnt matter if a chapter is also included in multiple lists either,.. it just reduces any confusion, and players could then choose to download exactly the files needed, for exactly the game they have been playing so far.

Think of them as a number of books. You need compatible chapters to make a story, so you want to be able to pick up a whole book, with the chapters arranged for you, and not have to pick out chapters in order to make a completed book. If a future chapter is added, you can then tell if its compatible to the version you have been playing, or if you have to wait a little longer.

As it is, from the comments I see, despite how good the game may look, I get the impression that nothing is compatible,.. or that I could play a few chapters and then run into a brick wall because my position wont then work on the next chapter,... and I know thats not totally true.

Seriously, whoever thought this shitty Online-Crap would be a good idea should be shot. Its fucking impossible to fucking import your savegames and the Onlineversion is shit anyways since you can't restore the Incest.

Palmer has found such an accessible way for us to play his games, bravo!

So i take it i have to play online version if i want to import saves? The downloaded versions will not allow save importing?

And that's not even including the probably dozen or so more comments asking about save files etc because theirs aren't working... and the several more that can't even get the game to start etc. Those are just from people who are either confused, or seriously hate the confusing mess you've created.

But hey... go ahead and act like I'm just making it up and I'm the only one taking issue with your choices here.

I don't blame you entirely for the cracked version, although it only exists because of the incompatible web based version in the first place. If you'd done as I previously discussed, and had the normal build simply put behind a "patrons only" post, like most other folks do, then there wouldn't be a "cracked version", and there wouldn't be more incompatible saves, etc... most of this confusion would vanish.

But again... pretend none of these problems exist if it makes you feel better, and that the engine you claim to have created is so superior, etc. You're welcome to pay for your dev tools if you like, but I for one don't care for the end product you've created with them, mostly because of the way you've chosen to release it.

Like I said before, I'm a patron, because I enjoyed the story.

But I hate the surrounding drama you've created by the way you've chosen to release the game. You don't support my platform, forcing me to jump through additional hoops (when GameMaker does actually support Linux.) You've created multiple incompatible versions of the game for reasons that seem to be directly linked to you trying to force more people to be patrons (unless you care to clarify otherwise.) And the engine doesn't seem to support the ease of use that Ren'Py does.

Perhaps it's because there is no native support that I failed to see a rollback feature?

I can right click to access saves very quickly on Ren'Py. I can roll the mousewheel for quick rollback and forward in Ren'Py. I didn't see an easy way to do those in your game. Is there some way I'm not aware of then? As you claim rollback exists?

 

[lunamm]

Why on earth would you want to stop the convo?

Did you just dodge my question? At least "promise" us there will be a Moe Mortelli spin-off after the end of this game!

 

[Palmer]

So not your own engine?

Greedy for the reason I clearly explained. Because you're forcing the players to jump through a bunch of additional hoops so that you can try to force people to pay you more money as patrons, rather than earning it in a way that causes less trouble for them.

How are the incompatible saves not your fault? You're the one forcing them to play two totally different versions of the game in order to try forcing them to be patrons, are you not? Otherwise can you explain to me why you have two incompatible versions? Not even mentioning all the separate builds.

As for me being the only one confused... let's look at some of the comments JUST SINCE YESTERDAY.

So yes, our own engine. Do you know what GMS is?

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to play the next chapter right away, it costs $10. Those money goes to paying the wages to 6 other people and further expanding the studio with new people to create more games. Some people can't afford that or don't want to pay that, and that's totally fine. Wait a month or play the cracked version here. Easy.

 

[Palmer]

Did you just dodge my question? At least "promise" us there will be a Moe Mortelli spin-off after the end of this game!

There's already a Moe spin-off actually It wasn't created by us though, if that matters

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Maybe have a pr-quel later on of the mother?

 

[phreadom]

There's nothing more entertaining than a dev trying to rationally discuss earning money to people on a pirate site. The incongruity is beyond absurd. It's like watching the initial scenes from Enemy Mine.

It's not about earning money. There are plenty of devs making plenty of money by making good games, and releasing the exact same build behind a "patron only" post. So even when the game gets leaked here, plenty of people still support the creator because they made a good product. Some others create extra bonus goodies, or an elite version of the game, but none of them appear to be incompatible with the free version in the way that Palmer has made his game.

Is there some part of this incredibly simple explanation you fail to grasp?

(Oh, and as I mentioned before, I'm A PAYING PATRON OF HIS. So I think I'm well within my rights to lodge a complaint about his poor design choices.)

 

[Burt]

Thank you Palmer for the nice way you answered all of the questions put to you and for releasing a free product along side your paid one
Also thank you for having fun with any criticism instead of the usual immature way a lot of developers do on this forum
I personally always laugh when people presume "piracy" has no promotional value GOG prove that to be wrong

 

[phreadom]

So yes, our own engine. Do you know what GMS is?

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

Read those two things and see if you can't see the problem with the way you've presented your claim to have created your own engine. I think perhaps you misunderstand the terminology and what people have been asking you?

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to play the next chapter right away, it costs $10. Those money goes to paying the wages to 6 other people and further expanding the studio with new people to create more games. Some people can't afford that or don't want to pay that, and that's totally fine. Wait a month or play the cracked version here. Easy.

$10 on an incompatible platform that has led to plenty of confusion and unhappy users due to that confusion. Confusion that could be avoided by following the method that most other devs seem to use, and which has been explained to you several times now.

If you're too thick to figure out what's been explained to you several times now, that's your shortcoming, not mine. And doing what you want is certainly your prerogative.

I've done my part. Good day.

 

[Palmer]

It's not about earning money.

But you just called me greedy? You're even more lost than I am

Also, good job editing your old posts - after I've replied - to better fit your narrative. Claaaaaassy!

 

[Deleted member 167032]

I don't always understand it myself... Patreon is for me, a site where one can sponsor or give someone money cause you want to... that is it. I sponsor a few devs what i can cause i really like their work, i still play the free version.

Thank you Palmer for the nice way you answered all of the questions put to you and for releasing a free product along side your paid one
Also thank you for having fun with any criticism instead of the usual immature way a lot of developers do on this forum
I personally always laugh when people presume "piracy" has no promotional value GOG prove that to be wrong

 

[Burt]

MrKnobb yep I sponsor buy more than most and am not opposed to anything on this site either but I am now way off topic so I apologies to the Mods/Devs in advance

 

[phreadom]

But you just called me greedy? You're even more lost than I am

That's called quote mining.

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It was very clear what I meant from the following sentences that you removed that sentence from in order to make it look like I meant something other than what I clearly meant. In that the point wasn't MERELY about earning money, but about the ways in which you negatively impacted your userbase in order to try to maximize your earnings. It was THAT point which was the key point being discussed. The fact that you could still earn money in a way that didn't involve so much confusion and user frustration due to incompatible versions, etc.

You have to either be intentionally dishonest here, or just stupid to try acting like it wasn't perfectly clear what I meant. I'll show you the courtesy of just calling you a liar, as I don't think you're that stupid. You're just unethical and intellectually dishonest.

I'm done discussing this with you and am now removing my patronage as you don't deserve it.

Again, good day.

 

[Palmer]

That's called quote mining.

You must be registered to see the links

It was very clear what I meant from the following sentences that you removed that sentence from in order to make it look like I meant something other than what I clearly meant. In that the point wasn't MERELY about earning money, but about the ways in which you negatively impacted your userbase in order to try to maximize your earnings. It was THAT point which was the key point being discussed. The fact that you could still earn money in a way that didn't involve so much confusion and user frustration due to incompatible versions, etc.

Nah, you said we were greedy. I think releasing all of our games for free kind of disproves that, however you're trying to now spin that You're changing the "key point" being discussed with every post you make and with your post-edits that you do, so it's kind of hard for me know what we're even discussing anymore. We do not experience much confusion or user frustration, but we can of course definitely always improve and do better than what we are already doing.

Thank you for your F95 patronage and sad to see you go.

 

[navhwyissg]

chapter 6 is here boys

 

[Ignatz]

It's not about earning money. There are plenty of devs making plenty of money by making good games, and releasing the exact same build behind a "patron only" post. So even when the game gets leaked here, plenty of people still support the creator because they made a good product. Some others create extra bonus goodies, or an elite version of the game, but none of them appear to be incompatible with the free version in the way that Palmer has made his game.

Is there some part of this incredibly simple explanation you fail to grasp?

(Oh, and as I mentioned before, I'm A PAYING PATRON OF HIS. So I think I'm well within my rights to lodge a complaint about his poor design choices.)

Do you feel a need to add an insult to your explanation? How did that line help me "grasp" your reply? Mine was a lighthearted comment on an ongoing discussion. I am not responsible for your misperceptions. Focus your indignation elsewhere.

 

[Ricky | Love-Joint]

Off the top of my head...
Interesting... this changes all the crap I said about Tyranobuilder....

You built your own engine? You're not using someone else's?

Because the last people that said this (Chloe18) didn't build their own engine. They were using another product.

Can you be clear about what engine you're actually using?

(Speaking of Chloe18, as I said, they claimed to "use their own engine", but actually use

You must be registered to see the links

, which seems similar to what you are using, as it has the same kind of nasty export formats, web support, the "data.win" file format, etc... so if it's not that, it seems like it's something very similar and not something actually build from scratch by the devs? Hence my curiosity about what tools you're actually using.

It doesn't change that I think forcing the users to hop back and forth between these crappy incompatible web based versions and the standalone desktop version is driven by greed and the desire to try to force users to pay to be patrons to see the content, despite it causing more problems for the users and making a lot of them unhappy... rather than just making a high quality product like other devs do, who put the low bar of a patron only post up, but allow them to be shared here anyway because they still get plenty of patron support for making good products and treating their users with respect.

Ideally this game would be released up front as a single build that includes successive chapters in the same download, with a single set of saves, and would support Windows, Mac, and Linux by default as the Ren'Py builds do. Not to mention better saves, rollback, and the flexibility that comes with Ren'Py.

But hey... I'm just a filthy user peasant, right? What do I know. )

We do use Game Maker Studio 2 as a tool, but we did code our own visual novel engine from scratch to fit our needs and use our own custom scripting language on it. Game Maker, Unity, Unreal etc are general game making tool/engines in which you can code what you need. Is not the same as Tyranobuilder or Ren'Py that are specifically visual novel engines with their paradigms and limitations, not general programming products.

These days I was joking with my team mates about how the engine became a monster and I came with these curious numbers:
- 41,315 lines of code
- 10 extensions
- 191 objects
- 22 rooms
- 280 script files

I know my engine doesn't has all the features that, for instance, Ren'Py has. But hey, Ren'Py has been in production since 2004... Is an unfair tech comparative (although still valid from the point of view of the raw player of course). I am actively working to make it better and several new features and improvements has been implemented since we release the first chapter of DFD. Is not that easy to develop a custom engine with all the things players want when you have to deal with monthly deploys + maintenance + server + support + meetings + bugs + life. But I'm doing my best.

And yes, we have plans to have an all-in-one build with all chapters once the game is completed. The current distribution method is just the way we found to deal with the monthly releases of an in-production game.

As for the other stuff, I won't share my thoughts here as it involves the Love-Joint team decisions as a whole and I'm not the official spokesman, I am the programmer

 

[Jim Webb]

There's nothing more entertaining than a dev trying to rationally discuss earning money to people on a pirate site. The incongruity is beyond absurd. It's like watching the initial scenes from Enemy Mine.

Ah Ah Ah I've supported many games financially that I've found through this site I never would of heard of them otherwise.

 

[Jim Webb]

:tf:Has anyone got any Gasoline? We need to make this thread get lit!!

 

[Ignatz]

Ah Ah Ah I've supported many games financially that I've found through this site I never would of heard of them otherwise.

Heh. Me too. I was just admiring the irony of discussions about earning money on a site devoted to free downloads. Of course, if no one remembers the movie Enemy Mine, they might not recall the two antagonists became best friends.

 

[Jim Webb]

Heh. Me too. I was just admiring the irony of discussions about earning money on a site devoted to free downloads. Of course, if no one remembers the movie Enemy Mine, they might not recall the two antagonists became best friends.

Cool I've never heard of that movie what about Tango and Cash they became the best bromances I see an similar movie in the making for Palmer and phreadom!!