RPGM Defenestration [v0.5d] [Fresh Mulan]

[Alsaeroci]

Typical "every dev is a scammer. They can release one update per week for free. They don't need money" dumbass.
How about you go to your workplace and tell your boss you don't need to be rewarded for your work, then ?

You simply exaggerated what he said, contradicted your own words, and pathetically tried to win the argument by exaggerating his arguments so much that they turned into nonsense and doing provocations that make no sense. People like you can justify absolutely anything, no wonder they are generally disliked.

 

[Airell]

You know, it's pretty easy to end up going a shit path. I should know, I've had it happen.
You just end up in a wrong way, figure you could just make an exception, to help you get back on your feet. After all, you're not doing good right now, so it's no big deal, right ? So you do. You take that exception. And the next, just to really settle back in a better space, you know. And before you know it, it's been way too long, and the exception ended up being the norm. That slope is unglodly easy to slip up on.

Now, am I saying that Fresh Mulan is 100% innocent like someone else here seems to be accusing me of saying ? No.
What I'm saying, is that there's no way to know why for certain. Because there could be a hundred reasons as to why. But that doesn't change people from deciding they're right because they want to be pissed off and want to feel all big calling out an evildoer. Which is fucking pathetic by the way.

People who were paying have a right to be pissed. And they cal also retract their subscription. Sure, they won't get their money back, but they also tend to forget that there's no contract binding the dev to them. The dev has no obligation to do anything. In fact, Patreon, Subscribestar and the likes are marely a middle-man between the fans and the dev. If fans could hand devs cash directly, that would be the exact same.
Supporting someone on any crowndfunding is basically a gamble. People chose to put their trust on a project, with no garantee it'll pay off in the end. It could be a waste of time and money as much as it could lead to something.

And remember that more often than not, those games are delivered for free anyway. So. Let's say for example that the game gets finished, and still delivered for free for everyone.
Fan A paid, monthly, $10 for the whole duration, let's say 3 years.
3 years, means 36 month, so that makes $360 total. Fan A paid $360 for a game he can get for free anyway. But Fan A doesn't get mad about that because the game got finished. He doesn't ask the dev for his money back. All he got in the end was to see every update a little early, and give his opinion on some polls from time to time.

See where I'm going ? Sure, it sucks to have your money taken away with nothing in return, but the basic point of view is wonky to begin with.
I'm not saying "Well suck it" to people who paid. Just, remember that it's not like there was no risk at all to begin with. You gambled, you lost. That sucks, but that's how it goes with all crowdfunding. You are never guaranteed to get anything for it, and most times it's completely optional to begin with. It's not a requirement for you to get the game 100% at the end. It's literally just a gesture to encourage someone.

But, when people get mad, they prefer to ignroe that fact and act like they have to get compensated because the dev is forced to. Because it makes their anger easier, more confortable to manage, when they decide it's not their fault at all. Shifting the blame to someone else is easier to deal with than admiting you took and risk that didn't pay off.

I understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't say that people criticizing and demanding is a bad thing. Remember, the only ones who can demand productivity from a dev are game fans, and especially the patrons.

If patrons fail to do this, which is always the case with large and popular projects, we have very counterintuitive situations with such projects collecting thousands of dollars every month without releasing anything for years.

You are right to say that crowdfunding is risky, but when patrons fail to demand, it only makes things worse. Besides, there are ways for you to check the dev's commitment and the project's pace... Productivity. It's not like this is something impossible to read, you can clearly see when a dev is passionate about the game and really works.

What happens is that fans/patrons of the game regularly turn a blind eye to this simply because they like the game, and that's what ends up killing the project.

 

[Rutonat]

I understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't say that people criticizing and demanding is a bad thing. Remember, the only ones who can demand productivity from a dev are game fans, and especially the patrons.

If patrons fail to do this, which is always the case with large and popular projects, we have very counterintuitive situations with such projects collecting thousands of dollars every month without releasing anything for years.

The ting is true the other way around though. Fans and patrons demanding ultra fast productivity from a dev while ignoring completely the situation of said dev. You can see it very often here, with people demanding devs put out updates every other week like the guy has nothing else to do with his time... Not all devs make enough to quit their job, or can do so from family pressure, even if they make good money. Also, not every man will openly say "yeah I make a porn game so I make 3 grands a month for it". Not the kind of thing you wanna say openly during family dinner...
Yet, a lot of people fail to realize devs are human with their own life circumstances. Not video game vending machines.

You are right to say that crowdfunding is risky, but when patrons fail to demand, it only makes things worse. Besides, there are ways for you to check the dev's commitment and the project's pace... Productivity. It's not like this is something impossible to read, you can clearly see when a dev is passionate about the game and really works.

That's also a thing. Life can throw shit at you.
Simple example is the amount of fire that happened in America the last few years. A lot of people lost their houses from that. Would that be surprising, if that were to happen to a dev, that they'd like to put the money the game makes toward having a new roof over their head ? I don't think so. But in the meantime, I doubt they'd be able to work like they used to, especially on the rauchier games out there...
Some will say "then they should stop taking money". But that's the thing, that money might be their main shot I getting out of that situation...
But, as they should, most devs don't overshare about their personal lives and issues (can't blame them with how many people respond with "we don't care, when's the next update ?"), so I'm not surprised we often have no idea why a dev ends up dropping off.
A somewhat good example of that is the dev of Corruption Time. The guy just completely dissapeared. He comes around the site now and then but we have no news. The only thing we know is that he had some quite serious personal issues, and since then, complete radio silence.
And still, some people decided to come to his thread and call him a scammer.
Only difference is that he never made any Patreon or anything, but that's not the point I'm making here.

So yeah, keeping a Patreon pumping while not saying a word is pretty scummy, but straight up deciding that it has to be because of scam and no other reason ? Come one. Scammers don't make that kind of efforts. If that was the idea, they'd just make the whole game and make it paid for in the end.

What happens is that fans/patrons of the game regularly turn a blind eye to this simply because they like the game, and that's what ends up killing the project.

Exactly. They turn a blind eye and decide they are, therefor, the blameless victims with no weight and responsability. They chose to ignore the fact that supporting wasn't a requirement and demand compensation for being stolen from. But they have some agenda in that, despite claiming otherwise. They made the choice, it slapped them in the face. They aren't as powerless as they pretend they were the whole time.

 

[cocomiel1]

You people are fucking disgusting.

my dude u just dont take comments so personal in this kind of site. as far as i know (except for some comments), opinions are totally valid. Also got news for you, world is in totally crysis and if u got luck enough to born in a shit hole in Latin America like myself and making 200 dls per month to live, well, just asumme that you live in a permament war against no f*cking body but our damn politics and weak economy xd

 

[testicalawrrior]

Ironically he just came out of hiding on Discord
Still not showing anything
just more words

 

[Airell]

The ting is true the other way around though. Fans and patrons demanding ultra fast productivity from a dev while ignoring completely the situation of said dev. You can see it very often here, with people demanding devs put out updates every other week like the guy has nothing else to do with his time... Not all devs make enough to quit their job, or can do so from family pressure, even if they make good money. Also, not every man will openly say "yeah I make a porn game so I make 3 grands a month for it". Not the kind of thing you wanna say openly during family dinner...
Yet, a lot of people fail to realize devs are human with their own life circumstances. Not video game vending machines.


That's also a thing. Life can throw shit at you.
Simple example is the amount of fire that happened in America the last few years. A lot of people lost their houses from that. Would that be surprising, if that were to happen to a dev, that they'd like to put the money the game makes toward having a new roof over their head ? I don't think so. But in the meantime, I doubt they'd be able to work like they used to, especially on the rauchier games out there...
Some will say "then they should stop taking money". But that's the thing, that money might be their main shot I getting out of that situation...
But, as they should, most devs don't overshare about their personal lives and issues (can't blame them with how many people respond with "we don't care, when's the next update ?"), so I'm not surprised we often have no idea why a dev ends up dropping off.
A somewhat good example of that is the dev of Corruption Time. The guy just completely dissapeared. He comes around the site now and then but we have no news. The only thing we know is that he had some quite serious personal issues, and since then, complete radio silence.
And still, some people decided to come to his thread and call him a scammer.
Only difference is that he never made any Patreon or anything, but that's not the point I'm making here.

So yeah, keeping a Patreon pumping while not saying a word is pretty scummy, but straight up deciding that it has to be because of scam and no other reason ? Come one. Scammers don't make that kind of efforts. If that was the idea, they'd just make the whole game and make it paid for in the end.


Exactly. They turn a blind eye and decide they are, therefor, the blameless victims with no weight and responsability. They chose to ignore the fact that supporting wasn't a requirement and demand compensation for being stolen from. But they have some agenda in that, despite claiming otherwise. They made the choice, it slapped them in the face. They aren't as powerless as they pretend they were the whole time.

Moderation is necessary, and it is necessary to analyze each case, I agree with you. That said, we need to make clear standards about what is acceptable and what is not.

Pausing money collection and putting the game onhold to go through a difficult time where you won't be able to work is acceptable.
2 years without any update collecting monthly money and making empty promises to keep the public interest is not acceptable.

 

[IncineratedMulan]

Moderation is necessary, and it is necessary to analyze each case, I agree with you. That said, we need to make clear standards about what is acceptable and what is not.

Pausing money collection and putting the game onhold to go through a difficult time is acceptable.
2 years for an update collecting monthly money and making empty promises to keep the public interest is not acceptable.

Look, full disclosure - you’ve got me. I indeed orchestrated the whole war between Ukraine and Moscovia in order to work even less. Being bombed is a small price to pay when I receave half of my usual income in return.

I don’t post on patreon and I won’t post anything except for an actual update. because I physically can’t talk about anything except the war. I do not want to use it as an excuse, I didn’t use it as an excuse, and I will remain silent for the exact same reason.

In the end it doesn't even matter, because even without the war - I didn’t name any dates, my patreon page has no mentions of any dates, all of that is in your own delusional heads. Toodles.

 

[Airell]

Look, full disclosure - you’ve got me. I indeed orchestrated the whole war between Ukraine and Moscovia in order to work even less. Being bombed is a small price to pay when I receave half of my usual income in return.

I don’t post on patreon and I won’t post anything except for an actual update. because I physically can’t talk about anything except the war. I do not want to use it as an excuse, I didn’t use it as an excuse, and I will remain silent for the exact same reason.

In the end it doesn't even matter, because even without the war - I didn’t name any dates, my patreon page has no mentions of any dates, all of that is in your own delusional heads. Toodles.

Sorry, but you don't owe me explanations. I'm not your patron or fan of the game, I was just responding to some comments to clarify pertinent points.

 

[IncineratedMulan]

Sorry, but you don't owe me explanations. I'm not your patron or fan of the game, I was just responding to some comments to clarify pertinent points.

Same. Just used the last available name to address all questions.

 

[IncineratedMulan]

Ironically he just came out of hiding on Discord
Still not showing anything
just more words

Ironically

 

[moobere]

dude thats what we were talking about a few posts before. Slutcraft devs also ukranians and theyre not milking their patreons
also, people dont stop working bc of war! and is not like Mulan is getting bombed every morning and living in a shelter i mean cmon... thats not war nowadays (also considering he may not living in the eye of the storm, which, i honestly dont think so, for what i know the rest of the country is working pretty normal considering the context). the worst of war is over and this guy doesnt make any new content after 2 years dude. wtf xd
also if theres a personal campaing for he to milk money bc of war, thats Ok. but doesnt sharing any content in this site isnt gonna help since donating is a personal choice whatever the context is, furthermore considering this is a promotional site where he can get new patreons, its kinda dumb hide your project for so long after making any progress. new users and potential patreons gonna (and will do) think this is over for sure. So, stupid movement there.
Returning to the Slutcraft case, or any other, what u can do, and its pretty reasonable. is to update in Patreon and few weeks after, make it public. And thats bc the hype (and posibilities to attract new patreons) is only the first week after the realase. And every dev knows that. So, if you hide your project for so long (and if you the dev, ur in your total right to do so) its bc some personal choice based in your intrest in this site (maybe dont like users, mods, what this site represent), no more. Dont make any excuse out of that, pls
If you think im totally wrong, then prove me wrong. And tell me why the most popular (financially and among users here), are the ones that make the update public at some point and also have some contact with players/users.
Then again, if u want to hide in shadows, thats cool, u in your right, but dont make external excuses bc your personal choice

I didnt say anyone was right or wrong. he said with out reason and war is a reason in reality, one may be from a non invaded part of Ukraine and one may who knows.

 

[xatcat]

Look, full disclosure - you’ve got me. I indeed orchestrated the whole war between Ukraine and Moscovia in order to work even less. Being bombed is a small price to pay when I receave half of my usual income in return.

I don’t post on patreon and I won’t post anything except for an actual update. because I physically can’t talk about anything except the war. I do not want to use it as an excuse, I didn’t use it as an excuse, and I will remain silent for the exact same reason.

In the end it doesn't even matter, because even without the war - I didn’t name any dates, my patreon page has no mentions of any dates, all of that is in your own delusional heads. Toodles.

calling your own patrons delusional because they expect some update after over a year of paying your salary which is more than double what most people make in your country? yikers.

im repeating myself but if you even worked 10% of the average time most people spend on their job, in a year, you'd have something to show for it.

i genuinely hope i am wrong because this is one of my fave nsfw games, but i doubt anything can convince me im not right.

 

[Rutonat]

Pausing money collection and putting the game onhold to go through a difficult time where you won't be able to work is acceptable.
2 years without any update collecting monthly money and making empty promises to keep the public interest is not acceptable.

I never said it was, by the way.
Some may loooove to call me a scammer defender for it, but when no information is availiable, I'd rather accept there are unknown informations rather than immediatly jump in joy at the idea of trying to destroy a dev's reputation by going around calling them a scammer.
Because unless said dev openly admit to have stopped working to milk patrons, or unless you know them personally, there's no way to know what's going on.

 

[IncineratedMulan]

IT HAPPENED, FINALY

This does bring a smile to my face

 

[Readerf2b]

Hahaha, mulan got active instantly when abandoned appeared (and suspiciously disappeared without any reason)

Well, its truly disgusting to read that WAR!!!!111 stopped game production. Your country (if its even yours) is in state of armed conflict since 2014 but only now you cant think about anything else but next patreon payment day war. Wish you calibration, scam.

 

[slavegal]

OMG, this thread is really dramatic ...

 

[testicalawrrior]

Oh shit the flame war is back
Best show of 2022 Fans Vs Pirates Vs Dev
Showdown for all ages

 

[Leafless Twig]

Game Uploading Rules [2019-06-25]
Prefix Definitions:
Abandoned: The game has been abandoned (confirmed by the dev) or the developer hasn't posted anything related to the game for at least 3 months.

The developer still hasn't posted anything related to the game. So why is the [Abandoned]-prefix gone? The Dev even stated himself that he can't physically talk about anything except the war, so breaking Rule 2 on General: Avoid discussing controversial topics, eg religion and politics

 

[TheCommedian]

PunishedMulan why didn't you respond to the comment of sucking and venerating you?
I love you T-T please sissify me,
I can be a very good slave,
I have a home I can host you T-T

 

[ZelaT]

Well it's good to see an update, as weird as it is.
I understand why the game is put in "abandoned" state given the rules and the post from Mulan here. Will be glad to support again once there is a new patreon update though.

Hahaha, mulan got active instantly when abandoned appeared (and suspiciously disappeared without any reason)

Well, its truly disgusting to read that WAR!!!!111 stopped game production. Your country (if its even yours) is in state of armed conflict since 2014 but only now you cant think about anything else but next patreon payment day war. Wish you calibration, scam.

Lack of updates and situation of the game aside, if you think the situation in Ukraine is the same between 2014 and now, I'm not sure what to tell you outside of "read the news".