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DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
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Or cater to the public more, that's usually how you get lots of traffic, include mainstream stuff into your niche work. Just look at some other devs, the money they get per month, while doing almost nothing after the first few good updates, shit's ridiculous. Devolution is rock-steady with his update intervals, my big respect for that, but he's following his own vision, without taking into regard what the players want. That is usually a path to getting a loyal, but small public. If you want to make it big you need to do some market research and then cater to the most popular choices (though, some would be hard to cater to, like cucking for example lmao).

I'm saying all this without knowing even tiny bit how much he earns, btw. Maybe he's actually gotten rich, I don't know.
Or I dunno, like I've suggested here I don't know how many times, to put it on Itch.io (like most porn devs do) with a minimum buy price per download or on Steam (like most aspiring porn devs want to do).

Also still can't access the server, so I guess I won't be playing Delta Zone anymore. Time to look for something new. Its such a shame, it has such great tentacle stuff.
 
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DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
974
999
Well, for a game programmer, working in Industry, its not actually all that much. The average game programmer in USA makes $100-150k depending on the studio, so that is 8300 USD to 12500 USD monthly. Course you take off some of that for retirement or taxes, so its maybe 7500 to 10500 a month.

Its why AAA studios have microtransactions. When you have over hundred programmers, working for 3 years, that is about 2.5 million US right there. Then you have artists, writers, level designers, game designers, marketing, etc... and the budget costs easily reaches 100 million USD in a few years.
 
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jllkfsdj

Active Member
Apr 19, 2019
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Well, for a game programmer, working in Industry, its not actually all that much. The average game programmer in USA makes $100-150k depending on the studio, so that is 8300 USD to 12500 USD monthly. Course you take off some of that for retirement or taxes, so its maybe 7500 to 10500 a month.

Its why AAA studios have microtransactions. When you have over hundred programmers, working for 3 years, that is about 2.5 million US right there. Then you have artists, writers, level designers, game designers, marketing, etc... and the budget costs easily reaches 100 million USD in a few years.
Sure, but he's an indie dev making a single game. That's not equatable to a full-time employed dev at a big studio working on AAA titles.

Also, if you look at the expenses by studios, most of the budget goes into marketing and advertising, not to devs.
 

RisenKill

Member
Feb 20, 2021
358
563
Sure, but he's an indie dev making a single game. That's not equatable to a full-time employed dev at a big studio working on AAA titles.
You will probably just Ignore/ misrepresent what I have to say but I will still say it:

How out of touch can you be?
Just because he is a single indie Dev (with an animator that he also has to pay for his work), he does not deserve to get payed as well as someone working for a big Studio? Even tough he literally does (mostly) everything all by himself?
Also, about those 6000 Dollars/ Month his patreon makes: That money is given to him by people that want to finance this game! He did not wake up one day and say "Oh man, today I want to make 6k a month!". That money is the result of the work he has been doing on his own for years and keeps on doing. Its not your money that he gets, its the money that other people gave him out of their own free will, because they can afford it to give him that money.
6000? Bruh! Yeah, I don't know what he's then bitching about. The cunt earns more than me, my siblings and my parents put together and my father especially labored outside in freezing cold, winter, rain, snow, etc. Fuck dev then for his greed and whining.
Then how about you go ask your Dad why he did that Job? Did he like his Job? Did he have the opportunity to do something else or get a better paid job?
Again, it was not the Dev that decided that he gets 6K a month but the collective people who like the game and want it to succeed. He is also not bitching about it, that is all you people in here, calling forth the one millionth DRM apocalypse, that did not happen (after all, people here are still able to play it with the same old Crack that is now nearly half a year old).
You talk about the Dev being greedy, but here you are bitching about everything he does with HIS project, while (and I am certain of this) you have done nothing to support the project. You are sitting here, moaning about everything, while playing the result of the Dev's work and everyone else's money, while not having paid anything for it. And please, do not go "I will buy it once it is done", the only one you are fooling is yourself.

If you really would want to help the Game getting made, you would have paid a few bucks at some point. You would be on the Discord, actually talking to the Dev and not in here, talking about him like you know anything about him.
But you did not want to. You choose to do this all day, crying about a Dev taking the necessary steps to add online features to his game.
Clearly, this is all the Devs fault...
 

denri2000

Member
Apr 6, 2023
153
163
Wow, $6000!!! And he complains!!! In Bulgaria, for example, people earn $500 a month, work at a factory 8-9 hours a day and on a night shift, and they’re fucking happy. And if we talk about some countries, their monthly income is $200 and their pension is $70. And this is not in some Africa
 

denri2000

Member
Apr 6, 2023
153
163
Вы, вероятно, просто проигнорируете или исказите то, что я хочу сказать, но я все равно скажу это:

Насколько вы можете быть оторванными от общения?
Только потому, что он одинокий инди-разработчик (с аниматором, которому он также должен платить за свою работу), он не заслуживает того, чтобы ему платили так же, как кто-то, работающий в большой студии? Даже несмотря на то, что он буквально делает (в основном) все сам?
Кроме того, о тех 6000 долларов в месяц, которые зарабатывает его патреон: эти деньги ему дают люди, которые хотят профинансировать эту игру! Он не проснулся однажды и не сказал: «Ох, сегодня я хочу зарабатывать 6 тысяч в месяц!». Эти деньги — результат работы, которую он проделывал самостоятельно в течение многих лет и продолжает делать. Он получает не ваши деньги, а деньги, которые другие люди дали ему по своей доброй воле, потому что они могут себе это позволить, чтобы дать ему эти деньги.

Тогда как насчет того, чтобы спросить своего отца, почему он выполнил эту работу? Нравилась ли ему его работа? Была ли у него возможность заняться чем-то другим или получить более высокооплачиваемую работу?
Опять же, не разработчик решил, что он будет получать 6 тысяч в месяц, а коллективные люди, которым игра нравится и которые хотят, чтобы она добилась успеха. Он также не жалуется на это, это все вы, люди здесь, вызывающие миллионный апокалипсис DRM, которого не произошло (в конце концов, люди здесь все еще могут играть в нее с тем же старым крэком, который сейчас почти наполовину годовалый).
Вы говорите о том, что Разработчик жадный, а здесь вы жалуетесь на все, что он делает со СВОИМ проектом, в то время как (и я в этом уверен) вы ничего не сделали для поддержки проекта. Вы тут сидите, ноете по поводу всего, играя в результат труда Дева и чужие деньги, при этом ничего за это не заплатив. И, пожалуйста, не говорите: «Я куплю, как только это будет сделано», единственный, кого вы обманываете, — это вы сами.

Если бы вы действительно хотели помочь созданию игры, вы бы в какой-то момент заплатили несколько долларов. Вы бы были в Discord, разговаривали бы с Девом, а не здесь, говорили бы о нем так, как будто вы что-то о нем знаете.
Но ты не хотел. Вы решаете делать это весь день, оплакивая, что разработчик предпринимает необходимые шаги для добавления сетевых функций в свою игру.
Понятно, что во всем виноваты разработчики...
[/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]
You will probably just Ignore/ misrepresent what I have to say but I will still say it:

How out of touch can you be?
Just because he is a single indie Dev (with an animator that he also has to pay for his work), he does not deserve to get payed as well as someone working for a big Studio? Even tough he literally does (mostly) everything all by himself?
Also, about those 6000 Dollars/ Month his patreon makes: That money is given to him by people that want to finance this game! He did not wake up one day and say "Oh man, today I want to make 6k a month!". That money is the result of the work he has been doing on his own for years and keeps on doing. Its not your money that he gets, its the money that other people gave him out of their own free will, because they can afford it to give him that money.

Then how about you go ask your Dad why he did that Job? Did he like his Job? Did he have the opportunity to do something else or get a better paid job?
Again, it was not the Dev that decided that he gets 6K a month but the collective people who like the game and want it to succeed. He is also not bitching about it, that is all you people in here, calling forth the one millionth DRM apocalypse, that did not happen (after all, people here are still able to play it with the same old Crack that is now nearly half a year old).
You talk about the Dev being greedy, but here you are bitching about everything he does with HIS project, while (and I am certain of this) you have done nothing to support the project. You are sitting here, moaning about everything, while playing the result of the Dev's work and everyone else's money, while not having paid anything for it. And please, do not go "I will buy it once it is done", the only one you are fooling is yourself.

If you really would want to help the Game getting made, you would have paid a few bucks at some point. You would be on the Discord, actually talking to the Dev and not in here, talking about him like you know anything about him.
But you did not want to. You choose to do this all day, crying about a Dev taking the necessary steps to add online features to his game.
Clearly, this is all the Devs fault...
Personally, it’s not difficult for me to give him $5-10 a month, this is a pack of cigarettes, I don’t have a card, really without cheating
 

RisenKill

Member
Feb 20, 2021
358
563
Wow, $6000!!! And he complains!!! In Bulgaria, for example, people earn $500 a month, work at a factory 8-9 hours a day and on a night shift, and they’re fucking happy. And if we talk about some countries, their monthly income is $200 and their pension is $70. And this is not in some Africa
Again, all the complaining is done by a few people in here, who do not understand what is going on. NOT the Dev.
As far as I am aware, all he (the Dev) cares about is the progress of the Game and the fact that the Patreons get what they paid for.

Also the Dev is not a Employee, like most of us, he is pretty much self employed. It is not unusual for someone that is self employed to make 4-6K a month (if they do a good job in the right field) but they will also have to pay for everything themselves (Office space, Licences, Power, Tools, Healthcare, saving for Retirement ect.). After all that you are usually left with way less money that you can spend on yourself, than you think.
 

Mordona

Confused Demoness
Donor
Dec 1, 2017
270
480
Dude, people are allowed to attempt protect their shit. Bitching about someone trying to protect their property isn't a good argument. Granted, I think he is wrong to up the ante on anti-piracy but I still respect the decision, its his property. Its a hell of a lot better than patreon scamming people with trickle or low effort content like some other game and their devs I could name around here.
 

DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
974
999
RisenKill There are multiple issues with this mindset:

1. There are tons of non-porn indie games out there, that make less than $100 a month from Patreon, and many of those games are really cool. Would you support them month to month? Probably not. But would you buy their game, when its done, probably yes. Its only with porn indie games that getting money off Patreon is the normal way to get funding; most have to work extra jobs, get a publisher, or hope for the best at Early Access steam launch.

2. There are tons of porn indie games that allow access to game builds via Itch.io or Steam. Like Breeders of Nephelym and Carnal Instinct are on Steam and are the same as the Patreon versions. You just have to pay per build (ie Itch) or pay once (ie Steam).

3. The DRM Apocalypse hasn't happened yet, you mean. Before there was the crack, people had to wait 1.5 years to play the most recent build. The new server architecture will eventually defeat the crack and it will be back to DRM paywalls. It will likely scan the game executable for injected code (how the crack works basically) and then prevent access to the server while that injected code is present. Its how Rust or Conan Exiles or 7 Days to Die, detects a lot of game hacks in multiplayer, is to look for known injected code .dlls.

4. Lots of porn devs have public accessible Discords. I've supported a lot of them on their discords, like Dread Lord Defiler, Beasts in the Sun and Likkezg's server. This is one of the few discords that requires you to pay to be there. Otherwise, I'd have joined the Discord and gave feedback there.

5. It is rarely necessary to add online features to a single player game. Unless its for DRM, microtransactions (ie Lootboxes in Destiny 1), or ingame purchases with real money (ie RMAH for Diablo 3). You generally don't need online features for game saves as even large saves like Skyrim saves, are totally manageable on 256gb SSDs which most users have at this point. You don't need online features for game data unless the data is so massive that it can't fit on people's machines.

6. I only give money to porn devs, if there is significant amounts of porn in the game. This one porn is the backburner, so its nice to see new animations, but its not a dedicated porn game like most porn games are. Like Beasts in the Sun. This game, it needs cheats to play, and I'm not forking that kind of dough over for every build that comes out, when its hard to justify at times spending $15 on an indie game on Steam.
 

DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
974
999
Personally, it’s not difficult for me to give him $5-10 a month, this is a pack of cigarettes, I don’t have a card, really without cheating
Where do you live that it costs $10 for a pack of cigarettes? In Canada, you are lucky to get a pack for $15, but its usually more.
 

denri2000

Member
Apr 6, 2023
153
163
Where do you live that it costs $10 for a pack of cigarettes? In Canada, you are lucky to get a pack for $15, but its usually more.
Where I chew, the most expensive cigarettes cost $4. average cost $2.5 and cheap $1.5The translator sucks, I'm tired of changing words (I live)This is exactly a pack of 20 cigarettes, it’s not a packet of tobacco.I’m 1$ is 37 here, so calculate how much a pack costs
 
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VanillaLover

Active Member
Jun 15, 2021
872
1,295
Yeah, we'll see. TJ888 produced the cracks, hoping he'll find a way around this too. For now, I've deleted it from my computer.

But, tbh, I'm not surprised by dev's decision. IIRC he was on here a while back and he was clearly very unhappy his game was leaked on this site and that people are playing it without supporting it with money.

It's sad though that with it being this early in development and with so many issues still outstanding that he would rather waste time on implementing something as yet-unneeded as DRM than actually invest that time into fixing many of game's issues or providing content that's actually been suggested or requested. What is that DRM protecting? A demo? It's like building Fort Knox only to then put a couple of 5 dollar bills into the vault.

Especially stupid waste when you realize that the game came out with breaking bugs and it DOESN'T EVEN WORK. Hardcore doesn't work, it CTDs before you can even run to the cache... And after testing it for 5 days he somehow missed that... Also, stupid on making a specific BUILD of win 10 as requirement (really? does he not know how many people are still on win 7 and 8?) is bollox.

After all, we must keep in mind that this game is barely at the stage of an old fashioned demo which were once free (before Steam was created and kids were made to believe paying for early access is the god's revelation).
I don't wanna stoop down to dickriding Devolution so I'll keep it short. Piracy countermeasures in your game? Fine. Everyone does it and it's basically standard for a lot of games. Online connected DRMs? Stupid. Already as so many people have pointed out on this site and off, online-only just hurts your game more than if not absolutely wrecks its release.

It sucks that your game is pirated, but that's to be expected, like how you don't think that nothing wrong is gonna happen in your life. But resorting to tactics like this just hurts the game more than help it. The thing is aside from a few feature removals and the obvious problem, the game has actually improved. Graphics look nice and I still enjoy the game.
 
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DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
974
999
I don't wanna stoop down to dickriding Devolution so I'll keep it short. Piracy countermeasures in your game? Fine. Everyone does it and it's basically standard for a lot of games. Online connected DRMs? Stupid. Already as so many peoiple have pointed out on this site and off, online-only just hurts your game more than if not absolutely wrecks it's release.

It sucks that your game is pirated, but that's to be expected, like how you don't think that nothing wrong is gonna happen in your life. But resorting to tactics like this just hurts the game more than help it. The thing is aside from a few feature removals and the obvious problem, the game has actually improved. Graphics look nice and I still enjoy the game.
Deriding a developer doesn't usually result in anything positive.

As for piracy countermeasures, that is more something you invest in for the beta or final build. Like Denuvo usually gets installed into AAA games, late into the development cycle. It may have the trappings of always online before that, but the anti-piracy measures are generally one of the last things implemented.

However the best anti-piracy countermeasures are:
-> Having a good product, in a finalized state, at a good price point. Most porn games aren't even near late beta state; this one certainly isn't.
-> Having the option to refund your money, if you don't like it. Can't do that with subscription paywalls.
-> Paying once, or having the option to pay again. ie Itch.io method. Or skipping the pay option, to test out the product and then going back and paying for it.
-> Utilizing a system of biometrics. Pretty hard to crack a fingerprint or retina ID scanner.
-> Having a simple key/password system, with a guard-dog software lurking behind it. Attempting to bypass the key/password activates the guard dog. Sometimes its as simple as crashing the program, but it could be more malicious like a blaster trojan.
-> Download/install executables that can only be used once per user. A lot of popular software, like Ufile uses a system like this.
-> Using registry data to setup protected information, that crashes the program anytime its modified by RegEdit, so that only specific software can create and update that protected information.
-> Requiring the user to install a secondary program, that performs guard-dog operations. A lot of games takes this option, and a lot of users aren't even aware the secondary program gets installed. I often find at least one Steam Next Fest game doing this.
-> Having something bad happen to the user, in game, if they are using a pirated product. Examples include the chicken gun in Crysis, the invulnerable scorpion in Serious Sam 3, and dying to game piracy in Game Dev Simulator.

The above are the best, because they are the least intrusive, doesn't require always online, and it ensures that the creator gets paid for their work.
 

RisenKill

Member
Feb 20, 2021
358
563
1. There are tons of non-porn indie games out there, that make less than $100 a month from Patreon, and many of those games are really cool. Would you support them month to month? Probably not. But would you buy their game, when its done, probably yes. Its only with porn indie games that getting money off Patreon is the normal way to get funding; most have to work extra jobs, get a publisher, or hope for the best at Early Access steam launch.
What have different game developers to do with this? I am talking about this Project and this Developer, not anyone else.
3. The DRM Apocalypse hasn't happened yet, you mean. Before there was the crack, people had to wait 1.5 years to play the most recent build.(...)
Just to clarify (even though I should not have to since you know that the wait time that you wrote there is wrong):
Way before all this, in the winter of the year 2021/2022, Devolution held a vote with his patreon supporters on how to handle the Public (free) Releases. The Patreons voted for him to try to make a Update every 2 months, with the Patreons getting the newest version and the Public the one Release "older" one. Now, long story short, stuff happened, people could not wait, shit got toxic and at the end of the "Public Releases" and shortly before the Crack, the "wait" time for the public Releases was about 4-6 Months. Not 1.5 Years!
4. Lots of porn devs have public accessible Discords. I've supported a lot of them on their discords, like Dread Lord Defiler, Beasts in the Sun and Likkezg's server. This is one of the few discords that requires you to pay to be there. Otherwise, I'd have joined the Discord and gave feedback there.
Again with other Game Devs... I am just gonna say this, you get the Access to his Discord for only pledging 1$. It acts more as a Troll and Spam deterrent than a "Paywall". Like you can do with your money, the Dev can do with his Discord.
5. It is rarely necessary to add online features to a single player game.
I mentioned the Souls games a bunch in this regard. I will not say exactly what it is, but there is that one mechanic in those games, that many people hate and love, that might could come to this game in some form. The Dev floated that Idea in the Discord a few times. That is why the game needs Online connectivity and a way to identify the players.
Also, non of the official descriptions of the game her or on Patreon state that it will be a complete Singleplayer game.
Makes you think about the future possibility's of this game really...
 

jllkfsdj

Active Member
Apr 19, 2019
511
765
-> Having something bad happen to the user, in game, if they are using a pirated product. Examples include the chicken gun in Crysis, the invulnerable scorpion in Serious Sam 3, and dying to game piracy in Game Dev Simulator.

The above are the best, because they are the least intrusive, doesn't require always online, and it ensures that the creator gets paid for their work.
Or like the original Armed Assault from way back when, make your gun extremely inaccurate.
 

DKOC

Active Member
Feb 1, 2019
974
999
RisenKill

What other developers have to do with this is that most people will not support financially, month to month, for non-porn indies. Even as awesome as Rimworld, Tynan didn't expect to succeed at a month to month patreon, hence why he went the Kickstarter route. Its only Porn indies that can expect to be paid month to month, to develop a game over 6+ years to final build state. Sometimes even longer, like Wild Life.

Its often a hard sale to get someone to spend $40 once, on an Indie, and feel like they got their money's worth. For a fully released and feature complete game. Like how many people quibble over Everspace 2's price, but will shell out month to month to support a porn developer. I'm not saying that porn devs don't deserve every penny, but many gamers can be quite petty with forking over money for a one-time fee structure for feature complete games.

---

Well, 1.5 years is accurate. Because before the crack came out, the free version was for Release 8, with the latest at Release 13. With a free release every 3 months, it would take waiting 1.5 years to see Release 13. But by then, any bugs in Release 13 would be fixed, so any feedback would be totally irrelevant, unless you were paying to get access to latest stable releases.

---

There are often ways to prevent trolls and spam bots, that don't require paywalls. Examples I've seen are:

1. Have to wait 24 hours to post.
2. A bot messages you when you join, and have to do a quick captcha.
3. Have to post 10 messages, in general chat, before can post elsewhere.
4. Have to agree to submitting your IP address, so that if you spam stuff, they can easily report you.

---

One mechanic from souls games that people like/hate. Hrmm... those potentially are:

-> Notes (often useless ones)
-> Previous death marks (clicking on it, to get killed by the thing they got killed by)
-> Invasions (hate me those darn invasions, especially as they prevent entering the boss arena and invaders often use glitches and exploits to be uber powerful)
-> Losing your currency and having to retrieve it, to get killed and lose that stuff permanently.
-> Having butt ugly female characters.
-> Install kill fall damage from a short height.
-> Getting backstabbed from a rubber banding when you roll and get backstabbed anyway.
-> Invisible floors in the crystal cavern.
-> Petrification clouds.
-> Ghosts that go through walls and floors and hit hard.

The list goes on...
 
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