Unreal Engine Delta Zone [v23.2] [DEVOLUTION]

[DKOC]

Many loot shooters don't have a melee attack without getting a weapon first. It's part of game design. You don't always need it.

AcKtUaLly, it's a 4th person turn-based strategy RPG

Wat? You do aim down sights, reloading speed is highly weapon part specific and armor values are a thing.

You're funny. Shout-out to your virus killing virus scanner.

It's a porn shooter. I don't really have to explain why it's maybe good idea to have a nice looking, high quality female protagonist for the porn. She looks waay better than most AAA 3rd person shooter protagonists and that's important (at least for me).

You are trying to justify your own personal preferences by comparing individual mechanics to other (mostly AAA) games and how they are done differently. That's not usefull at all imo. First, each mechanic has to fit into the rest from a design perspecitve as that makes the difference between good and bad. Secondly, comparison as a justification will lead nowhere. In the most extreme sense you could always argue that the game is missing every feature any big game every did.

Spoiler: me being silly

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Most loot shooters don't have the enemy stealing everything in your backpack though. Most loot shooters don't have permanent visual impairment (ie a flashbang in COD will flash your screen white for maximum 5 seconds). Most loot shooters don't have arm and leg fatigue, making it hard to flee and hard to aim. Most loot shooters don't have guns made of components, that each of their own impact on gun performance; ie Borderlands has different parts that can be put on a gun during RNG item generation, but they don't affect performance. Most loot shooters have reliable head-shot mechanics. Also most loot shooters don't have you lose everything you collect on death.

So, really, this game does need a melee attack. The argument you need a gun to do it, doesn't work, because even for games like Halo, you can smash people with a gun with no ammo in it and the enemy can't steal your guns until you are dead.

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4th person isn't a thing. You are thinking of 2nd person

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Most basic gun you start with, you don't aim down the sights. Maybe if you get an aftermarket x4 scope, you aim down the sights, but with your starter gun, you don't ADS. And if the enemy keeps killing you, and raping you, you never have the money to get that scope, so, sorry, but you don't ADS.

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When the enemy starts out with max grade weapons and armor, and you start with a shit weapon and no armor, that feels incredibly unfair. Especially when played on the easiest difficulty setting. It would be like playing 7 Days to Die, and trying to kill an Irradiated Wight with a Pipe Shotgun. Good luck on surviving that.

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It is not a porn shooter. A porn shooter, has way more than 3 animation sets. Wild Life is closer to being a Porn Shooter, even back in 2019 when they had a tiny team. It is a well known fact that the porn is tacked on, and is not a priority. So it is window dressing, nothing more. Its like a plain chocolate cake filled with cherries, with a tiny splotch of whip cream on it. You can't call that a dark forest cake, with so little whip cream on it. At best it is a cherry chocolate cake with a minor side helping of whip cream.

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She looks too tall, bony and way too little fitness for someone engaging in combat roles. She looks anorexic, but hey if you find that attractive, you do you.

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If the game had a good gameplay design, I wouldn't need to make comparisons. No one compares Halo's combat to Call of Duty's combat, because both of them have good gameplay design, and the mechanics from one game wouldn't work in the other. But when your gameplay design is shit, with convulted mechanics that detract from gameplay and make the experience overall worse, without adding anything, comparisons have to be made to get it back to a good gameplay design. Not everyone makes a good gameplay designer, which is why most people hire one to do the gameplay design work. Its not an attack on the developer; they are really great at artistic stuff, making it look visually stunning (for the most part). Gameplay design however is not their forte and they really need to hire someone to do it.

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As for the spoiler list, all of that stuff can make a game good. Its why so many games have things like it in their games. But you shouldn't add things in willy nilly without first considering if the game would benefit from them.

 

[mamaboiii]

So, really, this game does need a melee attack. The argument you need a gun to do it, doesn't work

I agree with the part that it needs a melee combat mechanism. I know that there already is one (shock ability). And there will most likely be another 'more melee' one in the future. I'm arguing that the reasons why it should be in the game are not (and should never be) 'but halo also has it'.

4th person isn't a thing. You are thinking of 2nd person

Ah yes, truly a 2nd person turn-based strategy RPG game

Most basic gun you start with, you don't aim down the sights.

If you play on normal difficulty. Which you are struggeling with. And in which you get 1000€. And next to a store that sells a front and rear sight for 18€ respectively and a handguard to attach the front sight to for 24€. So you're basically telling me the game should find a way to let you aim down the sights for weapons without any sights. And not doing so is a crucial design flaw.

When the enemy starts out with max grade weapons and armor, and you start with a shit weapon and no armor, that feels incredibly unfair.

Yup, that's why they don't. You don't get to fight corpos, but scavs and raiders in the beginning. Press I mid-raid and you'll even get some insight into the adaptive difficulty. Just because it's too hard (for you) in the beginning does not mean the game has no difficulty scaling.

It is not a porn shooter. A porn shooter, has way more than 3 animation sets.

Not that it really matters, but it's a porn shooter in development.

If the game had a good gameplay design, I wouldn't need to make comparisons. No one compares Halo's combat to Call of Duty's combat, because both of them have good gameplay design, and the mechanics from one game wouldn't work in the other.

You can always make (bad) comparisons. How sensible they are depends more on the comparison than the quality of the objects of comparison. And ofc people are comparing those (fully finished) games.

 

[DKOC]

I agree with the part that it needs a melee combat mechanism. I know that there already is one (shock ability). And there will most likely be another 'more melee' one in the future. I'm arguing that the reasons why it should be in the game are not (and should never be) 'but halo also has it'.

Ah yes, truly a 2nd person turn-based strategy RPG game

If you play on normal difficulty. Which you are struggeling with. And in which you get 1000€. And next to a store that sells a front and rear sight for 18€ respectively and a handguard to attach the front sight to for 24€. So you're basically telling me the game should find a way to let you aim down the sights for weapons without any sights. And not doing so is a crucial design flaw.

Yup, that's why they don't. You don't get to fight corpos, but scavs and raiders in the beginning. Press I mid-raid and you'll even get some insight into the adaptive difficulty. Just because it's too hard (for you) in the beginning does not mean the game has no difficulty scaling.

Not that it really matters, but it's a porn shooter in development.

You can always make (bad) comparisons. How sensible they are depends more on the comparison than the quality of the objects of comparison. And ofc people are comparing those (fully finished) games.

Okay, but consider this: Every FPS that doesn't have an infinite ammo ranged weapon (ie Blake Stone, Corridor 7, Quake 2, Doom 2016, etc), has a melee attack. So Wolfenstein 3D, Doom 1/2, Duke 3D, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Halo, COD, Crysis etc... all have melee attacks. If he doesn't want a melee attack, put in an infinite ammo gun that can't be stolen. That would work too.

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If a gun lacks sights, it should have "iron sights". So yes, it is a gameplay flaw if you can't ADS. Now... if the game had very accurate weapons, like Wolf3D, Doom, Doom 2016, Quake 2/4, then you wouldn't need to ADS. But any game with severe gun accuracy variance when not ADS, needs ADS.

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Uhh, considering that a scav can one-shot put me down, from twice the distance away than I can reliably hit them and it takes at least 3 of mine to even hurt them, I'd say that is a pretty unfair match.

Btw, with the right skills, you can one-shot an irradiated wight, by sneak attacking it with a pipe shotgun. Its just that you are very unlikely to succeed at doing that. Here, I have even worse odds stacked against me.

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It is only a porn shooter in development, if it gets new porn improvements each update. Considering we haven't had a new scene in over a year, its pretty hard to call it a porn shooter in development. Its like saying that Witcher 3 is a pornographic RPG, when it has so few sex scenes in it.

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Good/bad comparisons are subjective, like opinions. The developer can make their own decisions for themselves, I'm merely offering up a potential way to fix them. If they don't want to use mine, they don't have to, but they do need to fix their gameplay loop in some fashion.

It is pretty hard to compare unfinished games with unfinished games, when most of the time, people have never heard of the unfinished game because it isn't on Steam yet either. Or it is on Steam, but it has so few purchases that no one has heard of it. So I could compare it to odd-ball games I've played, like Mind Space, CDF Ghostship, Rogue Shooter, or Operator8, which are all on Steam, but were forced out of the door incomplete. But if I made a comparison to a game you've never heard of, is that comparison useful? I highly doubt. That is why you make comparisons with well known games. Yes those games are made with big teams, but usually there is only one programmer that works on a specific feature in a game. So, like melee combat code in Halo 1, would be done by one person, and they'd decide how much damage is dealt by what gun, how far it reaches and how long the animation should be for each weapon. So comparing a single feature, made by one developer in a large team, vs one developer in a small team... it is still one developer vs one developer.

 

[Xhak]

Found a changelog for v13:

This game is fast turning into Malice and the Machine but more DRM.

 

[RisenKill]

It is only a porn shooter in development, if it gets new porn improvements each update.

Just no.
If you go at the development of a game with a mindset like that then you are making it way harder for yourself to make a game that feels well made at the end. Because you just start to half ass some animations and character models just to reach a quota and in the end you will not know how to make them fit in. Add to that the fact that you will slow down the actual development of game mechanics and the games world and you will end up with a game that has been in development for years but only has a ton of animations in a sandbox that do not fit in and look like shit to show for it. You can always just add the Horny once you are done making the game part of the game.
The Dev describes this game as this:

DELTA ZONE is a completely NSFW-UNCENSORED cyberpunk-themed FPS game with high-quality graphics, deep gameplay, and explicit animations.

Did you notice how the "explicit animations" are the last thing that are being mentioned? Maybe, just maybe, that is because the Dev wants to make an actual well made game and not some wank fest that looks and plays like shit.

 

[rcbcgreenpanzer]

<Snip the serious shit>

Spoiler: me being silly

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Spoiler: taking silly things seriously

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[Deleted member 5009843]

Most loot shooters don't have the enemy stealing everything in your backpack though. Most loot shooters don't have permanent visual impairment (ie a flashbang in COD will flash your screen white for maximum 5 seconds). Most loot shooters don't have arm and leg fatigue, making it hard to flee and hard to aim. Most loot shooters don't have guns made of components, that each of their own impact on gun performance; ie Borderlands has different parts that can be put on a gun during RNG item generation, but they don't affect performance. Most loot shooters have reliable head-shot mechanics. Also most loot shooters don't have you lose everything you collect on death.

This is what gets me. The design feels fractured in that it's trying to have a "gritty feel" whilst simultaenously having "looter shooter" mechanics. The two don't mesh well, or at least currently don't mesh well, making it feel frustrating.

For example: Shock grab a guy while naked. In keeping with the "gritty feel", Ivy should be able to pick up the guys gun, and put on his trousers and now slightly scorched shirt. However, the looter mechanics kick in. You've got a gun on the floor that you can't pick up or even strip for parts, a pair of trousers and shirt that you can't wear. Instead, you find 3 bullets, a tissue, and a front sight. Our lovely protagonist is awfully fussy.

With the current high attrition rate of loot, a higher drop rate per enemy would balance it out. Boxes can remain the same. I'd also like to pick up dropped weapons (Corporate could have some kind of bio-safety that renders it scrap or something so you can't just grab the best gun outright). It'd also mean that you can backtrack and grab a weapon dropped by someone you took out earlier if necessary.

I agree with the part that it needs a melee combat mechanism. I know that there already is one (shock ability). And there will most likely be another 'more melee' one in the future.

The game definitely needs a melee function beyond the shock grab and not another cyberware one. A more robust melee system would also allow for more variety to enemies and in approaches to the game. I got nabbed when I ran out of battery, and there was a handy 2x4 lying next to me but apparently splinters were a concern...

A good first step would be to apply the struggle mechanics to the human enemies. Pass the test and knock them down for a period of time (like the effect of the first shock grab on a corporate) giving you time to run off and hide.

If you go at the development of a game with a mindset like that then you are making it way harder for yourself to make a game that feels well made at the end. Because you just start to half ass some animations and character models just to reach a quota and in the end you will not know how to make them fit in. Add to that the fact that you will slow down the actual development of game mechanics

I agree with this, there's far more pressing issues than adding new animations. (Though it would be nice if the clipping issues could be fixed on what we do have.)

 

[mamaboiii]

If a gun lacks sights, it should have "iron sights".

That's like saying 'a gun should always have a barrel to be able to shoot'. In a game where weapon modding and attaching a barrel is part of the game. The iron sights are a thing. Just. buy. them.

Spoiler: image

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The game definitely needs a melee function beyond the shock grab and not another cyberware one.

I'd agree that it needs an additional close range attack function, but cyberware would work, too, imo.

Spoiler: spoiler

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[Deleted member 5009843]

I'd agree that it needs an additional close range attack function, but cyberware would work, too, imo.

Spoiler: spoiler

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I'm thinking more low-tech and scrappy, two scavengers bludgeoning each other with iron bars or branches. Something that's not an ideal solution but something that can be relied upon at the start or in a desperate situation when your batteries are out.

 

[SylvanaHellsing]

I'm thinking more low-tech and scrappy, two scavengers bludgeoning each other with iron bars or branches. Something that's not an ideal solution but something that can be relied upon at the start or in a desperate situation when your batteries are out.

Pebble.
Pebble are always the good solution...
Pebble for life
Pebble into the water

 

[notthinkingmuch]

Wait, I just downloaded Ver 10, Did the EULA thing at the beginning of the game basically say:
"All the sex in this game is non-consensual, If you click agree you are not allowed to complain about it."?
The wording was confusing so I could very well be wrong.

 

[mamaboiii]

Wait, I just downloaded Ver 10, Did the EULA thing at the beginning of the game basically say:
"All the sex in this game is non-consensual, If you click agree you are not allowed to complain about it."?
The wording was confusing so I could very well be wrong.

It's more like "you are the character so if you agree, all Ivy scenes are consentual"

 

[DKOC]

That's like saying 'a gun should always have a barrel to be able to shoot'. In a game where weapon modding and attaching a barrel is part of the game. The iron sights are a thing. Just. buy. them.

Spoiler: image

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I'd agree that it needs an additional close range attack function, but cyberware would work, too, imo.

Spoiler: spoiler

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In most games, the Iron Sights IS THE FUCKING DEFAULT. If you play ARMY OF TWO or CRYSIS, also with Gun Modding, the Iron Sights is the Default. You should not HAVE TO BUY IRON SIGHTS. WHO THE FUCK WOULD BUY IRON SIGHTS? That is fucking ludicrous. That is like saying, you should have to buy the trigger, as the gun won't come with one by default. You know how fucking stupid that sounds? Don't give a half-assed reply when YOU KNOW it is total bullshit. You shouldn't have to pay for something utterly basic, if you have the gun. All guns have Iron Sights. You have to PAY to have anything better than Iron Sights. You buy a regular 9mm from the store in real life, and it will have Iron Sights.

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Cyberware would work as long as there is no requirements to its function. The whole point of a last resort weapon, is for it to be available as a last resort. If it needs battery power to run, then it is not a last resort weapon. Now you could have it be an attack that recharges or has a long cooldown, but it needs to be available if you need it. Otherwise, it would not serve as a last resort weapon.

 

[DKOC]

I'm thinking more low-tech and scrappy, two scavengers bludgeoning each other with iron bars or branches. Something that's not an ideal solution but something that can be relied upon at the start or in a desperate situation when your batteries are out.

Yes, like in most FPSes. Prey had the Wrench. Doom 2016 the blaster pistol. Wolfenstein 3D the Knife. You wouldn't want to use them, because let us be serious, you are probably going to die if you try to use them, but they are your last resort.

Even a large rock as a weapon, would be preferable. Like Rust does XD.

 

[DKOC]

Wait, I just downloaded Ver 10, Did the EULA thing at the beginning of the game basically say:
"All the sex in this game is non-consensual, If you click agree you are not allowed to complain about it."?
The wording was confusing so I could very well be wrong.

Standard boiler plate stuff. Its how companies get around the whole "rape" thing. Its a requirement for staying on Patreon. If they get a single wiff that you are supporting "rape culture", they will ban your ass in an instant. Everyone on Patreon has to agree to their terms, and this is one of them.

So we all know it isn't consensual, not even in the slightest, but it is put there to avoid legal / economnic trouble with Patreon. Its the same with a Porn site, requiring that you state you are 18+, even if you aren't.

 

[mamaboiii]

1. Completely NSFW-UNCENSORED = Blatantly false. If you lack a sign in ID, it is censored. You can do ALL of the other content in the game without a password, like all the gameplay, but it is Censored, if you lack an ID. So you can enjoy all the gun modding, all the killing, all the buying of stuff at stores, but not the NSFW content, without an ID. That is NOT completely NSFW Uncensored.

That's like saying a game has no campaign if it's not available in the demo. You do understand that the 'full game' requires either an ID or the public version with a public 'ID', right? And I'm sure we both agree that we should always use the full game as the basis of discussion.

When a seasoned FPS player, cannot succeed even on the easiest difficulty setting... someone who has played some of the best games on the market at max difficulty, cannot succeed at your game on the easiest setting there is a major problem with your game.

Dude, I play FPS games and often suck. I suck at games that are difficult like Elden Ring or Dark Souls. I find Ready or Not hard. This game I'm able to play without dying once. Admittedly, I don't play this game for as many hours, but as you can see anecdotal arguments are not that great. I understand your frustration, but maybe you should use cheats (they are available in the v10.2 public release) to have fun. That's what they are for, no shame in that.

In most games, the Iron Sights IS THE FUCKING DEFAULT. If you play ARMY OF TWO or CRYSIS, also with Gun Modding, the Iron Sights is the Default. You should not HAVE TO BUY IRON SIGHTS. WHO THE FUCK WOULD BUY IRON SIGHTS? That is fucking ludicrous. That is like saying, you should have to buy the trigger, as the gun won't come with one by default.

Again with your general comparisons, gun modding ≠ gun modding. Secondly, how else would you implement sights as weapon modules if you start without a weapon. It's pretty incomprehensible to me that you are mad about having more customization options. If you get so riled up that you don't start with certain weapon parts, just start on easy mode with more parts...

If it needs battery power to run, then it is not a last resort weapon.

Other games use stamina or cool-downs for melee weapon attacks to limit its use. Imo having a low battery usage melee weapon still works while limiting its power somewhat. Because you want the weapon to be strong enough to get you out of a sticky situation, but with that you risk it being OP.

Also, a note on forum etiquette. Try not to post multiple posts after one another. Make one long post or edit your post and add to it. It's also in the rules and can be quickly considered spamming.

 

[notthinkingmuch]

It's more like "you are the character so if you agree, all Ivy scenes are consentual"

Yeah I was thinking I could read it like that too. I'd like to think like that, it'd make the game more enjoyable.

Standard boiler plate stuff. Its how companies get around the whole "rape" thing. Its a requirement for staying on Patreon. If they get a single wiff that you are supporting "rape culture", they will ban your ass in an instant. Everyone on Patreon has to agree to their terms, and this is one of them.

So we all know it isn't consensual, not even in the slightest, but it is put there to avoid legal / economnic trouble with Patreon. Its the same with a Porn site, requiring that you state you are 18+, even if you aren't.

That's also what I was thinking, and I liked that less.

I mean don't love non-consensual content (Which I hesitate to say because I assume it's a VERY unpopular opinion on this side of the internet), but this game is VERY fun all by itself. I was hoping it would fall into like a middle ground, where if you into that sorta thing you could do it but if your not you don't have too.

Because with the tentacles you can choose to resist or not, so if you never choose to resist it's all ways consensual (DUMB logic I know, but I'm trying REAL hard to meet the game halfway)
So the biggest problem is the, I assume their soldiers but I'm honestly not sure. If their was a "I don't wana have sex with you, take more of my items, or just kick me out of the play area back to the starting area (I guess that would be murder)" I'd honestly Kinda be fine.

But it's looking like, maybe it's not going to fall into the middle ground like I was hoping.
I guess their is SFW mode but, I did LIKE the other parts of the game. Just not the context I felt like I couldn't ignore.
My bad for the text wall.

 

[RisenKill]

I'll try to limit things to one post.

At this point it might be better to limit this to no more posts.
We have been at this (stuff like melee) for a whole day now and it is very obvious that you are not willing to just let it be even tough the discussion has been going in a circle for the last 12 hours.
All the things that had to be said have been said and we better leave it at that. And if you feel like you have been personally attacked by people, then take it up with them in DMs, not here.

 

[DKOC]

Yeah I was thinking I could read it like that too. I'd like to think like that, it'd make the game more enjoyable.


That's also what I was thinking, and I liked that less.

I mean don't love non-consensual content (Which I hesitate to say because I assume it's a VERY unpopular opinion on this side of the internet), but this game is VERY fun all by itself. I was hoping it would fall into like a middle ground, where if you into that sorta thing you could do it but if your not you don't have too.

Because with the tentacles you can choose to resist or not, so if you never choose to resist it's all ways consensual (DUMB logic I know, but I'm trying REAL hard to meet the game halfway)
So the biggest problem is the, I assume their soldiers but I'm honestly not sure. If their was a "I don't wana have sex with you, take more of my items, or just kick me out of the play area back to the starting area (I guess that would be murder)" I'd honestly Kinda be fine.

But it's looking like, maybe it's not going to fall into the middle ground like I was hoping.
I guess their is SFW mode but, I did LIKE the other parts of the game. Just not the context I felt like I couldn't ignore.
My bad for the text wall.

A fade to black would address this kind of stuff. Just imply they knocked you out and took your stuff, and otherwise remove the pornographic elements. Then if you didn't consent to that kind of mechanics, you wouldn't have to deal with it in your game run.

 

[mamaboiii]

A fade to black would address this kind of stuff. Just imply they knocked you out and took your stuff, and otherwise remove the pornographic elements. Then if you didn't consent to that kind of mechanics, you wouldn't have to deal with it in your game run.

Ah yes, the problematic porn content. We really have to find elaborate ways to censor it