Machete

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2020
2,178
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Fun Facts: This alone makes Zeta(just now remembered the city's name :p) more ethical than the Romans who had a religious obligation to leave unwanted babies at the local dump, girls were more often abandoned than boys because they were thought of as requiring more care, and slavers and slave owners who wanted a free slave would visit the dump to pick up what they could find, consequently some Roman fathers would mark their children before abandoning them to make sure they didn't fuck any of their own daughters at the local whore house.
Cool, i had no idea :) thank you for this trivia.
 

Machete

Engaged Member
Apr 7, 2020
2,178
3,751
So far as we've seen, "technology" seems to only mean cars. As far as weapons go, everyone else seems to use blades, just the same as Zeta. We've seen quite a bit of combat involving the raiders at this point, and I don't think we've seen even the slightest hint of modern weaponry.
Modern weaponry is a bitch. The slightest rust in the gearsor in the ammo jackets and it might explore in your face. Now, it's absolutely impossible that a 400 old car would run, let alone still have its tires, but let it slide for the sake of the Mad Max vibe.

Modern guns would need to be build from scratch and it seems beyond the capabilities of the raiders. Maybe the decayed could come up with something. In any case if they have the raw materials for gunpowder it would be relatively easy to produce muskets. Even out of junk. Maybe we could see them sometimes.
 

Ummmh

Member
Apr 27, 2018
194
147
Modern weaponry is a bitch. The slightest rust in the gearsor in the ammo jackets and it might explore in your face. Now, it's absolutely impossible that a 400 old car would run, let alone still have its tires, but let it slide for the sake of the Mad Max vibe.

Modern guns would need to be build from scratch and it seems beyond the capabilities of the raiders. Maybe the decayed could come up with something. In any case if they have the raw materials for gunpowder it would be relatively easy to produce muskets. Even out of junk. Maybe we could see them sometimes.
I am curious if a rust free environment like you can get in the desert with zero humidity conditions might allow for preservation of materials.

We pick up a truck that way in a shipping container in the story, and it's in relatively good shape as a result.

My thought would be that weapons could absolutely still be operable although you'd probably need to replace the barrels if you'd been using it for 400 years because eventually the pressure would cause cracks.

However, if the weapons had not been used, so long as they were properly oiled, and you had an informed operator strip them and go over them piece by piece befire use, the weapons would probably still function if you found them in a zero humidity storage vault, as might be possible in the middle of the desert.

For a certainty if you can keep cars running you should be able to keep guns running. The main issue is you don't want to use 400 year old ammo: bang when it should go click and click when it should go bang. If they can keep oil refineries working however someone should damn well be able to make black powder and refill those cases, so ammo would be limited in supply but not unavailable.

At the very least you should still be able to see shotguns because those are so easily user modifiable in terms of the ammo, and you can load them with whatever as your payload not be dependent upon actual bullets/slugs.

It's worth noting that the only time we see any kind of ammo in the game it's in the shotgun collar and yeah it's shotgun shells in a collar facing inwards so that could suggest that there are some shotguns out there and that industry is at least still alive. It is of course decayed who have those.

EDIT: there would be a concern with weapons if you're trying to use a weapon with a polymer lower yeah it might not actually be a polymer anymore. :giggle:
 
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halil123

Active Member
May 23, 2017
630
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I couldn't get the "tell the waitress to serve the customer" scene.

Cronyism is such a turn on so guard scenes were perfect.

I don't mind the story didn't progress because I don't play this game because of zombies or elves. Throwing my authority, connections and big dick around is what I like.

Really looking forward to that public priestess event.
 
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Ragnar

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Respected User
Aug 5, 2016
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While we've seen a shotgun collar has anyone actually seen any GUNS in the game?
I don't recall seeing any guns anywhere but if you can maintain cars, which they've definitely got, you can definitely maintain guns. Even assuming you don't want to try using 400 year old ammo, Black Powder is not that hard to replicate and I'm sure someone out there knows how to do it: if we've got a whole industry to keep the oil refineries going I'm sure there could be arms and ammunition manufacturers.
This is easy for us right now because we have the knowledge and the tools but in game they don't. It's not the same to keep an engine running with some maintenance than making a new one from scrap without the knowledge, the specs and heavy machinery for it. Even to make basic powder you need the formula for it.
Dystopian works have touched this subject plenty of times. How humanity would lose most of its knowledge after an apocalyptic event.
One example of this is the Adeptus Mechanicus from WH40k universe. They have tech priests using incense and prayers on machines all the time, because most of their tech comes from the dark age of technology and the knowledge to make the best machines is gone.

Modern weaponry is a bitch. The slightest rust in the gearsor in the ammo jackets and it might explore in your face. Now, it's absolutely impossible that a 400 old car would run, let alone still have its tires, but let it slide for the sake of the Mad Max vibe.

Modern guns would need to be build from scratch and it seems beyond the capabilities of the raiders. Maybe the decayed could come up with something. In any case if they have the raw materials for gunpowder it would be relatively easy to produce muskets. Even out of junk. Maybe we could see them sometimes.
The funny thing about the first muskets was that their accuracy was shit, also recharging after one shot is a pain in the ass. At that point a blade can be the better option for a fight. Now some good old cannon can make a big difference during sieges.
 
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Master of Puppets

Conversation Conqueror
Oct 5, 2017
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I am curious if a rust free environment like you can get in the desert with zero humidity conditions might allow for preservation of materials.

We pick up a truck that way in a shipping container in the story, and it's in relatively good shape as a result.

My thought would be that weapons could absolutely still be operable although you'd probably need to replace the barrels if you'd been using it for 400 years because eventually the pressure would cause cracks.

However, if the weapons had not been used, so long as they were properly oiled, and you had an informed operator strip them and go over them piece by piece befire use, the weapons would probably still function if you found them in a zero humidity storage vault, as might be possible in the middle of the desert.

For a certainty if you can keep cars running you should be able to keep guns running. The main issue is you don't want to use 400 year old ammo: bang when it should go click and click when it should go bang. If they can keep oil refineries working however someone should damn well be able to make black powder and refill those cases, so ammo would be limited in supply but not unavailable.

At the very least you should still be able to see shotguns because those are so easily user modifiable in terms of the ammo, and you can load them with whatever as your payload not be dependent upon actual bullets/slugs.

It's worth noting that the only time we see any kind of ammo in the game it's in the shotgun collar and yeah it's shotgun shells in a collar facing inwards so that could suggest that there are some shotguns out there and that industry is at least still alive. It is of course decayed who have those.

EDIT: there would be a concern with weapons if you're trying to use a weapon with a polymer lower yeah it might not actually be a polymer anymore. :giggle:
100%. Steel doesn't just go bad, if it is kept dry so it doesn't rust it will literally last thousands of years. The desert is the perfect place for it, in the middle-east it's still fairly common to see guns left over from the mid 1800s still in use a hundred and fifty years later. And you're even overestimating the problem of barrel wear, it isn't typically dangerous, the barrel doesn't crack, the rifling just wears out eventually so your accuracy suffers. The main problem is the ammunition, which would definitely not be good after 400 years. Hell, ammo left over from WWII is likely to have gone bad, and that was less than one century ago. And you can't easily replace smokeless powder with black powder in most gun designs, it would work OK for single-shot or bolt-action guns, but nothing semi or fully automatic, plus it's a lot weaker too. That isn't really an issue though since smokeless powder is actually easier to make than black powder. Take a mix of nitric and sulphuric acid and dip cotton in it, boom, gunpowder. (Don't actually do this, because... well... boom)
I have no doubt that there would be a big pile of perfectly serviceable weapons in the bunker, they just don't have the ammunition for them. They in particular want nothing to do with the decayed who could make new ammo for them, since the decayed specifically target mutants to kill and eat.
 

stoni13

New Member
Mar 30, 2023
1
1
ive got a bug when starting the introduce Fairy scene. After a few images I ended up in main menu. Now that I progressed the story further I end up in the Zone shelter Radio screen where I can select one of the 3 radio stations.

What can I do?
 
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JaxMan

Active Member
Apr 9, 2020
723
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It does not actually say that he definitely had impregnated any priestesses only that he very strongly BELIEVED that he had knocked up that one. He had been set up as a partner with that one Priestess before, but the fact he says "believe" instead of "is" what he actually replies to Kateryna suggests that there MAY be a few guys who got a crack at her before him. It also specifically does NOT say he had any other children with the priestesses, only that THAT Priestess had had 32 prior children successfully, but it doesn't indicate ANY of them were his. I mean, some MIGHT have been, but we don't know

Talia claimed to have had six kids with him and gave them to the temple but we don't actually know for certain that they were his since she supposedly fvcked every guy in sight, or at least that's what the queen says.

His finances at the beginning are debatable and yes he does indicate that he doesn't have servants normally but Zahra likes doing homebody work, and he's also had 20 years to make his fortune and he started out with a bang having two kids right then and there and was able to afford them, so the odds are his finances weren't particularly bad over the last 10 years and he probably could have afforded more kids, unless his finances VERY recently made a very large upturn, which we don't have told to us at all.

The game is conveniently vague on money matters, excepting that he always seems to have more than enough when he needs it, and discussions in the past between Rabiah and Zahra suggested that stalkers do make good pay: it's just dangerous work that often takes them away from home for days .

Omar being richer is definitely a fact, and seems to be a matter of disdain for MC. Omar breaks the cultural code we read about in the library, in that he OPENLY DISPLAYS his wealth, effectively rubbing it in everyone's faces, which is something you're NOT supposed to do. I get the distinct impression MC believes Omar is one of those people who knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing. Note that Omar has a ton of money but still doesn't spend on servants, despite this DIRECTLY pissing off his wife, so Omar cannot be used as a yardstick for economic or cultural normalcy.

Last I checked, there's NOTHING at all to indicate that the compound MC's in was abandoned: that would just be making up a claim because it's convenient for your argument. If I'm wrong about that and you can find evidence in a text that he says it was abandoned then I apologize but I'm pretty sure it's never stated or even suggested.

We have to assume that that's not inherently the case it was abandoned, especially considering it's a fairly developed compound that appears to be in good repair, and is WITHIN RELATIVELY CLOSE PROTECTIVE DISTANCE OF THE CITY( not subject to raiders, decayed, etc) which would mean it could easily have a decent property value, although we don't know THAT for sure, either.

And, yes, you can start to impregnate family members, except that, IIRC, it's never specifically mentioned that you can impregnate ZAHRA, only that you can come in her. At least not that I've seen within the text, and I went looking. Insemination does not inherently equal impregnation.

The game makes a bit of a big deal IIRC, that Ain is just now of legal age, so getting her knocked up earlier would have been a no no.

Shani still resists getting knocked up because she's to be a stalker, so the potential of not getting her pregnant is critical for that reason, though she may well change her mind, givien hints in the text.

Emelia was a recent gift from the queen so was unavailable before then.

Fairy was found recently, on the fuel trip to Cairo: she is either a gift from those two decayed (if you didn't kill them earlier at which point you don't get elf Ivy/Yuna, because she got her head blown off by the shotgun collar and then she got eaten) or was a purchase (SPECIFICALLY TO SAVE HER LIFE, although you might also be buying her because she's hot) while on that trip (if you had killed the two Decayed to save the elf at which point Fairy was in the hands of a merchant). So, again, she was unavailable until recently.

Katrina was also unavailable until recently because she was only old enough to travel recently and it's only because she's old enough that she did travel: she specifically was fleeing her Village so that she didn't get ritually gangbanged now that she's of legal age to bear a child.

if MC had Fairy earlier he might very well have been knocking her up

if MC had Emelia earlier he might very well have been knocking her up

If MC had Kateryna earlier he might very well have been knocking her up.

BUT WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE if he would have been knocking them up because all these cases are recent happenstance, SO PROVE NOTHING ABOUT HIS PAST FINANCES.

We only know that he can presently afford them not that he couldn't have afforded them say, 10 years ago when he had already had plenty of time to build up his business.

Regarding servants (which Emelia and Fairy are) he presently had the money to support them but just didn't bother going out and getting servants because ZAHRA ACTIVELY LIKES TO BE A HOMEBODY, unlike Rabiah.

Emelia was a gift from the queen and it's not wise to turn that down and Fairy was going to be killed if he didn't buy her or accept her as a gift so he gets them both EVEN THOUGH HE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE PICKED THEM UP OTHERWISE. All the same, he clearly ALREADY HAD THE MONEY TO SUPPORT SERVANTS.

(PS EDIT: and Fairy isn't even a servant who helps Zahra out with anything: she's just a mind-broke fvckdoll for MC to use, tho we can try to be nice to her and spend money on her as a result).

So none of this stuff proves his past finances one way or the other, if he could have had servants helping Zahra out or not, although she doesn't seem to really inherently want them. She'll accept them if they're given to her, but she seemed to have matters in hand

There's a big difference between conjecture based on evidence and conjecture based on what one wants to be true: the two are NOT logically equivalent.

We only know that he DID have enough to have 2 kids right off the bat, from the beginning of his marriage, strongly suggesting he WOULD have had decent funds in the interim unless he fell on hard times for a while.

It's a matter of probabilities, but the preponderance of the evidence says he at least had the cash and seems to have it at hand without any trouble now suggesting that he may have had a decent pile of cash for a while.

The fact that he can just blow money on renovating a room because it makes his daughter feel better suggests that he has more money than he's letting on, and may very well have been decently well off for a while. It's not a definite fact but it's a strongly suggestive pattern of presented evidence within the text of the story.

Yes there are plenty of potential real world issues, but none of them are actually convincing one way or the other without specific evidence.

OtOH, there are definite standout patterns of behavior including Zahra's bizarre behavior in trying to push Ain into becoming the new head wife when Zahra is nowhere near menopause, and her clearly preferring to keep taking loads into her from her husband, yet not having kids in 15 years.

There are a lot of factors which all coalesce on an interesting pattern, given actual evidence within the text, as opposed to making up evidence based on random possibilities.
Believe whatever you want. I'm done with this exchange as you are the type of person that has no ability to read and comprehend and likes to bloviate your opinions as truth. I started my first comment with the caveat that this is an adult VN and requires some suspension of disbelief for certain things in the game. Speculation is normal when all the elements aren't present as is the case here. I speculated on why he might not have had money to want to have many kids, that's all. Yes, we don't know whether he was always rich and could afford many, many slaves and servants. But, again your statements don't correspond to what I'm saying. You have that issue with just seeing your point and not others.

That said, you go on ignore. Have a nice life.
 

Walter Victor

Forum Fanatic
Dec 27, 2017
5,766
19,832
Why don't Zaton and Zahra have more children?

We know that they had two girls early, and none since. We know that he cums inside her (since the start of the game, at least).

What we don't know is what was going on between the birth of Ain and the start of the game.

I'll throw in a possibility that I haven't seen yet: after the girls were born, they didn't WANT any more children - he's a stalker and away a lot; she's alone taking care of everything while he's gone. Well then, elementary birth control has NOT been forgotten since the world went to shit, nor has the knowledge of menstrual cycles. It is perfectly possible that Zaton and Zahra have been having sex all along, just avoiding pregnancy.

Now we start the game: Ain is old enough to help around the house; servants are acquired; Zahra probably has more time on her hands than before the start of the game. It's quite possible that they no longer fear Zahra getting pregnant again, and are willing (now) to accept that possibility.

Pure conjecture on my part, but it seems possible.
 

Fairlight0306

Newbie
Mar 11, 2024
26
23
The MC also has to be thinking about wanting a MALE heir to take over as stalker, as it's definitely a better and safer choice: size REALLY DOES matter in a fight, actual real world experience has shown that women don't do as well in environmental torture tests as men (including some US Marine women who ended up going STERILE from all the punishment when they tried to do a male wilderness survival test), and attractive women will find what would always be just a nice easy neutral encounter for a man, can suddenly slide into sexual assault against them, because they, as women, are themselves inherently attractive commodities, the law is nowhere within reach, and men are men (Mandisa's advice to play possum and then attack when a man's guard was down was right, but it was absolutely not a guarantee of success and safety). Shani might be practically spec ops in her training, but the odds say she (as a LONE WOMAN of small stature and hot, cute appearance out beyond the reach of any backup) will almost certainly eventually get brutally graped (likely repeatedly), and very possibly bound into permanent sexual slavery, even if she does not outright just get flat-out murdered, eaten, or killed by exposure. Training only goes so far, it doesn't really change anything that she's basically a Lara Croft stand-in, and she has to sleep sometime, even if she sleeps light (which we know she doesn't, since her father is seconds away from sleep grape-ing a baby into her after her workout, until she FINALLY only wakes up AFTER he's been pounding her pvssy like a damn jackhammer for who knows how long).
Dude why you diminish Shani that way, she is a STALKER, period. She went in the zone and survived the trial as every stalker before her, she trained the whole life for this task. About the rapists she killed already one and his other 3 companions, she saved his little sister from slavery, the psych..hemm the queen respect her. If after the trial in the zone you still think she is useless i don't know what to say, maybe she need to wipe out an entire raiders clan alone. Why do you think the mc didn't fuck her until the trial despite desiring her? Because she is not a fucking breeder.Also i don't doubt females are weaker physically in our world but i cited all IN GAME facts as you say.
 

Maviarab

Devoted Member
Jul 12, 2020
8,833
19,889
We only know that he DID have enough to have 2 kids right off the bat
I agree with everything you said pretty much except the above.

Idiots have kids (at a young age) all the damn time, whether they can afford them or not. I don't see Zetan society being any different to any other current modern society, especially given the apparent lack of birth control (which unfortunately gives us more questions).

Affording, wealth and children, have NEVER ever correlated until very recent times in western culture.
 
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lucky65

Member
Aug 15, 2018
141
61
Well no matter how many times I do the sleep with Zarah tab to get to next day the game always puts me in Ain's room with her either a BJ wake up, or just some random scenes. It was funny at first but not every time you go to sleep with wife only to be shown Ain's scenes when you never even slept with her at night. I have tried deleting saves and starting new games, only to get same repeating issue. I am just starting to think Dev likes Ain's new scenes so much that wife got dumped for Ain. I know there are some random scenes for after going to bed with wife, and Ain that happen but as with dinner scenes nothing working right. I get 3 options in Dining room 1. Waiting on dinner, 2. tell family to join with options of eating, or having Maid service you while eating, and 3rd option is I am fine which ends dinner scene no interaction with anyone. Kat never shows up even though the ! is on dining room all the time. Sadly it was funny first souple times but, not every time you visit same scenes nver advancing story line. As far as the Zarah Ain issue I recall a few random scenes supposed to occur story related Like Ivy randomly showing up and talking to MC, but with buggy sleeping scenes she never shows up. Shani and zone talk shows up in list, but I have not even done any of the prerequisites to even get to that point. Oddly enough I played 15c again from start without mods and I got all the random scenes, ending up in right bed for whom I slept with, and story advanced with talks to wife as intended not out of context before doing anything to actually get them to show to advance story lines. Is anyone else having same issue, or similar with newest game update? Thanks in advance for reading my rant. "Ranting off now"
 

Jericho85

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2022
1,574
5,207
Well no matter how many times I do the sleep with Zarah tab to get to next day the game always puts me in Ain's room with her either a BJ wake up, or just some random scenes. It was funny at first but not every time you go to sleep with wife only to be shown Ain's scenes when you never even slept with her at night. I have tried deleting saves and starting new games, only to get same repeating issue. I am just starting to think Dev likes Ain's new scenes so much that wife got dumped for Ain. I know there are some random scenes for after going to bed with wife, and Ain that happen but as with dinner scenes nothing working right. I get 3 options in Dining room 1. Waiting on dinner, 2. tell family to join with options of eating, or having Maid service you while eating, and 3rd option is I am fine which ends dinner scene no interaction with anyone. Kat never shows up even though the ! is on dining room all the time. Sadly it was funny first souple times but, not every time you visit same scenes nver advancing story line. As far as the Zarah Ain issue I recall a few random scenes supposed to occur story related Like Ivy randomly showing up and talking to MC, but with buggy sleeping scenes she never shows up. Shani and zone talk shows up in list, but I have not even done any of the prerequisites to even get to that point. Oddly enough I played 15c again from start without mods and I got all the random scenes, ending up in right bed for whom I slept with, and story advanced with talks to wife as intended not out of context before doing anything to actually get them to show to advance story lines. Is anyone else having same issue, or similar with newest game update? Thanks in advance for reading my rant. "Ranting off now"
Zaton is not waking up in Ain's room, he's waking up in his own bedroom. Ain sneaks in for the BJ.
 

Porthas

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2021
1,270
2,719
Dude why you diminish Shani that way, she is a STALKER, period. She went in the zone and survived the trial as every stalker before her, she trained the whole life for this task. About the rapists she killed already one and his other 3 companions, she saved his little sister from slavery, the psych..hemm the queen respect her. If after the trial in the zone you still think she is useless i don't know what to say, maybe she need to wipe out an entire raiders clan alone. Why do you think the mc didn't fuck her until the trial despite desiring her? Because she is not a fucking breeder.Also i don't doubt females are weaker physically in our world but i cited all IN GAME facts as you say.
If anything, this story diminishes Shani. She has the best super power in the world, and that's the ability to have kids. In an apocalyptic setting, women who can have children are worth more than their weight in platinum. Dudes being Stalkers makes sense, men are stronger, faster and more expendable.

But let's not bring too much common sense into the setting. ;)
 

lucky65

Member
Aug 15, 2018
141
61
Zaton is not waking up in Ain's room, he's waking up in his own bedroom. Ain sneaks in for the BJ.
LoL well it is every time breaking the randomness of the game, and I do not mind the waking up that way part. It is the fact that no matter who MC is sleeping with it always shows Ain's scenes, and never Zarah when sleeping with her as it used to.
 

Ummmh

Member
Apr 27, 2018
194
147
I agree with everything you said pretty much except the above.

Idiots have kids (at a young age) all the damn time, whether they can afford them or not. I don't see Zetan society being any different to any other current modern society, especially given the apparent lack of birth control (which unfortunately gives us more questions).

Affording, wealth and children, have NEVER ever correlated until very recent times in western culture.
LOL

TRUE DAT! :ROFLMAO:

My parents only married because I was already on the way... And that worked out sooooooo great...

That said I came across a conversation in the early Rebaia Zahra scene where younger MC was saying he would get Reb a servant so she didn't have to do any work, which indicates he at least believed he would have the money early on. There was a strong indication that he was pretty financially responsible and aware (so likely to have a good understanding of what they could or could not afford) to the point where Reb was teasing him that he was already planning for their retirement .

By the way that exact sort of conversation going on is one of the reasons I love this game is that it does actually feel like real people to an extent despite it being over the top Mad Max deal, and a harem fvckfest.

Also, I just went back to an alternate choice in the early Fairy basement scenes and it turns out that that Zahra does actually say that with *Fairy* (likely specifically because she's a mind-broke perma-fvcktoy incapable of making her own decisions anymore), since MC is about to rail her hard and come inside her, any baby from her would be sent to the temple.

Again tho, that's probably because Fairy specifically is incapable of fully rational conscious thought anymore (after the Decayed and their human lackeys beat and graped it out of her), so can't be trusted to do much of anything, much less raise a child, even with assistance.
 
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Xythurr

Active Member
Oct 29, 2017
831
1,614
3 things (CONTAINS SPOILERS)...

1)

Just just wanted to put in a bit of shout out appreciation to the devs.

Even if this game (which gives us great scene after great scene and awesome dialogue) had somehow delivered nothing of value to us aside from sending Lirah to her humiliating and (hopefully) fertile fate (if she chose to remain a guard), it STILL would have been worth the trip.

The other option (to help Lirah quit and head out into the wastelands) is a good route, without a doubt, but the apology-to-humiliation route is GOD TIER. I only have a slight quibbles: that they should have given her a bit more cross-eyed/white eyed look when she climaxes, and probably had her cherry-pop and climax cries/moans be in all caps. Otherwise, they really understood the assignment.

Eventually, though, Lirah REALLY needs to end up in the Harem at some point. **Right next to Shani when she finally gets her 4ss fully there, which she really needs to, ASAP.**

2)

While we've seen a shotgun collar has anyone actually seen any GUNS in the game?
I don't recall seeing any guns anywhere but if you can maintain cars, which they've definitely got, you can definitely maintain guns. Even assuming you don't want to try using 400 year old ammo, Black Powder is not that hard to replicate and I'm sure someone out there knows how to do it: if we've got a whole industry to keep the oil refineries going I'm sure there could be arms and ammunition manufacturers.


3)

Now..

SKIP ALL THE REST IF YOU ARE DISINTERESTED IN THEORIZING BASED ON INGAME EVIDENCE WITH REAL-WORLD FACTS APPLIED.

ALSO: MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD!!

THE FOLLOWING **MASSIVE TEXTWALL** IS ENTIRELY CONJECTURE, AND I'M PROBABLY WRONG, but...

A REALLY sad thought arises, and there seems to be some evidence backing it up..

Does anyone else find it odd that our boy and his wife have been fvcking like bunnies for 20 years **but somehow only had TWO kids**?

OK, so...I realize the devs are probably just reflexively going off 21st century norms, without thinking it through, and probably didn't want to have to add any more NPCs to the roster. That's probably the real world reasons.

However, this still begs an answer IN-GAME, and there are some weird side issues that coincide with this problem w/these side issues actually helping answer the main one.

So...

In-game, the world is in a pre-industrial state (despite them probably being in the 25th or 26th century), especially in and around tech-rejecting Zeta) and, in pre-industrial societies, everyone pumped out as many kids as they could for pure survival: more kids meant more would survive into adulthood, as life was never certain and any number of things could wipe out your entire lineage if you didn't have enough kids. Also, entertainment venues were limited, so copulation was abt as fun as fun got.

MC's not away in the zones for years at a time, but only days or weeks, so that's not a reason they wouldn't be popping out kids. MC even has a discussion with Shani about how coming back from a fight or from the zones resulted in Zahra getting a sexual wave from him due to all that pent up adrenaline releasing into desire. So we know they've been going at it the whole time.

The MC also has to be thinking about wanting a MALE heir to take over as stalker, as it's definitely a better and safer choice: size REALLY DOES matter in a fight, actual real world experience has shown that women don't do as well in environmental torture tests as men (including some US Marine women who ended up going STERILE from all the punishment when they tried to do a male wilderness survival test), and attractive women will find what would always be just a nice easy neutral encounter for a man, can suddenly slide into sexual assault against them, because they, as women, are themselves inherently attractive commodities, the law is nowhere within reach, and men are men (Mandisa's advice to play possum and then attack when a man's guard was down was right, but it was absolutely not a guarantee of success and safety). Shani might be practically spec ops in her training, but the odds say she (as a LONE WOMAN of small stature and hot, cute appearance out beyond the reach of any backup) will almost certainly eventually get brutally graped (likely repeatedly), and very possibly bound into permanent sexual slavery, even if she does not outright just get flat-out murdered, eaten, or killed by exposure. Training only goes so far, it doesn't really change anything that she's basically a Lara Croft stand-in, and she has to sleep sometime, even if she sleeps light (which we know she doesn't, since her father is seconds away from sleep grape-ing a baby into her after her workout, until she FINALLY only wakes up AFTER he's been pounding her pvssy like a damn jackhammer for who knows how long).

So where is the expected horde of kids from our ever-horny Mom and Pop team? They're obviously still eager to go-go DECADES into the marriage, had two kids in quick succession, and he's clearly got the cash on hand to support more brats, because he keeps taking in stray pvssies to pump babies into.

We get it implied in MC's internal monologue that he sired SIX kids with Talia in the same 20 yr time period (although the queen flat-out states Talia fvcked pretty much every man in the palace, so the parentage of those kids is maybe not really all that certain, despite Talia clearly wishing it were so).

Sooo...

WHAT THE HELL GIVES WITH THEM ONLY HAVING 2 KIDS IN 20 YEARS???

Sadly, I think the most likely in-world answer, is that sometime after they had Ain, at least one of the pair became incapable of producing children.

It's theoretically possible our boy became sterile from radiation/biological/chemical exposure in the zones/cities.

Problem with this theory is that he's a pretty well-read individual of a very well-trained lineage, so would have known the risks, recognized the possible symptoms if those risks got him, and, if he had seen evidence that he was sterile, or that the risks were that high at all, probably would have pater-familias-style DEMANDED Shani pop out two or three kids (likely his own, unkess he's shooting blanks) before she ever went to her first Zone, so that idea seems a bit unlikely.

Alternately, Zahra could be a low fertility woman in general or could have had something like a catastrophic miscarriage which took out her ability to have kids ever after.

We know for a fact that Zahra was able to QUICKLY pop out two kids, so she is likely not a low-fertility woman. Rabiah, who only had her twins (who are not Omar's: are they also the MC's, on the down-low?), is being commented on as being behind schedule. Now, Rab probably had LESS time than Zahra, because Zahra straight-savage TOOK her man, kind of literally out from under her, and went to work on a family with him immediately, leaving Rabiah high and dry (appropriate, since Rab was leaving the MC high and dry with balls of purest azure). That said, Rab serms to LOATHE Omar, so maybe she just decided not to have kids with him. So let's nix the sisters being of low-fertility.

Most likely answer is that, although we weren't told this, sometime after Ain's birth, Zahra had a catastrophic miscarriage which caused permanent uterine damage (or maybe as a complication from Ain's birth causing same). This has an increased chance of probability in a society (Zeta) that has intentionally limited its medical technology. Miscarriages, which can happen randomly, can absolutely have (or at least coincide with and be caused by same) permanent negative consequences, especially if medical coverage is not adequate.

Zahra being rendered permanently barren by a miscarriage matches the evidence exactly. To wit:

The pair isn't arguing about why they haven't had kids. When people who want kids but can't, and haven't figured out the reason, they tend to agonize over it, possibly fight about it, and obsessively look for answers and alternatives. And yet, our pair are lovey-dovey and calm. If they have been trying to have more kids and failed, it sounds like they know the deal and have calmly settled on some sort of solution.

BTW, they clearly do try. A lot. Zahra's comment to Igor that if MC wants more kids he can w/her, was probably just covering up why they haven't had any, because he's clearly banging away.

Very importantly..

I don't think there's been more than a handful of mothers out there throughout all history who have been okay with their husbands fvcking their daughters. Not even Egypt or other similar cultures where siblings married was Daddy's delving into his daughters considered acceptable. Even in Greek myths, where young gods would kill their fathers and grape their goddess mothers, the idea of daddy banging daughter was still a no no. And even in sexually permissive Zeta, it doesn't sound like dads into daughters is happening as a general thing. And yet, Zahra's not only fully on board with it, she's ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING it. While she did say she was glad her husband shared her kinks, this seems a little bit beyond that, and begs the question of why she's going there.

Also, despite Zara looking like she's probably at least a decade away from menopause, she's PUSHING AIN TO CONSIDER TAKING OVER DUTIES AS THE NEW HEAD WIFE. Shani wants to be a desert stalker and is fighting her nascent but emerging urge to carry her father's children, so Ain is initially the only option.

Ain is far more sexually and socially trained than Shani, and is endlessly willing to go there with Daddy, while Shani watches from the sidelines, so Zahra is focusing on Ain as her replacement, with one caveat: Ain is irresponsible, selfish, and short-sighted. Zarah has resorted to BDSM punishments to try to discipline her into being more attentive and responsible. That, and Zahra clearly also likes the BDSM (if you've got Kyra in the cage next to Ain's basement punishment scene, she accuses as much).

More, Zahra would be aware that if her husband brings in an OUTSIDE new head wife (not concubine or slave), so for kids who will actually INHERIT from the MC, there's a chance Zahra and her children could find themselves out in the street/sands if the MC dies and the new wife disowns them, especially if that wife had "provided" a MALE heir, which Zahra never did.

So what's the logical choice for Zahra? And why does it match what we see?

Easy. She encourages our boy to fvck his own daughters (initially only Ain but eventually also Shani), who SHE ALREADY HAS LEVERAGE OVER since she's their mother, and she also further projects power over the girls by putting them to work eating her out every now and then, so establishing dominance.

Thus, she assures that her husband is only getting acknowledged and inheriting children with HER girls, WHO REMIND HIM OF HER, so he remains interested in and loyal to her as well, and everything's kept within her lineage while the daughters are disinclined to kick her out because they love her and feel loyalty to her.

It's sick and twisted, but makes complete sense as a desperate but highly calculated response to messed up circumstances from a very family-focused woman who was cruelly cut away from her primary asset in marriage, and doesn't want to end up out on her ass and losing her husband and everything else after a patient lifetime of striving within servitude.

BTW,

Ain's increasingly entitled attitude might be partially Zahra's fault, because she is too-quickly pushing Ain to consider taking over motherly duties ASAP. What the girl is of course getting out of it is the image of all the PRIVILEGES of motherhood in her head (ordering servants around and getting fvcked by her well-endowed father) but none of the attendant RESPONSIBILITIES. Thus, Zahra must keep reminding her of her place so that she doesn't accidentally create a monster by pushing her too fast: otherwise Ain might end up going full-bore narcissistic and kicking her mother out. This might explain why Zahra goes to such extreme measures to discipline her daughter.

Also, tho Zahra actually says Ain could possibly take over as someone else's wife, OR take over the household here, the reality is Zahra knows Ain only wants her father, so would not choose some other man, and it thus looks more to be a coy trap to get her to take over as head wife from Zahra, while LOOKING like she's leaving open the appearance of other choices. She also discusses Ain's options with the MC, but nothing comes of it on that end: Ain is endlessly encouraged to go after pregnacy w/her father and that's that. The only thing that changes here is when Shani finally opens her legs to daddy: Zahra suddenly laser focuses on getting her into the harem. As Shani is the eldest daughter, and a VERY RESPONSIBLE AND OBSERVANT woman, Zahra might actually start targeting HER for first wife, tho that would probably really piss Ain off, who's basically been training for exactly that role pretty much her whole life, when Shani specifically wasn't: Ain actually has a hell of a lot of identity issues specifically linked to this.

Anyway, that's the theory, and I've seen no evidence that could theoretically refute it. Feel free to chime in. Please keep it polite.

Obviously not proof itself and the devs probably just didn't consider the low baby count (despite commenting on it with Rebiah) but it's definitely something that would make sense if it were real world.
Fascinating reading and some of it might even be the dev's intentions but regarding father daughter incest it's stated plainly that it's a cultural norm. Ain even talks about other girls doing stuff with their fathers even one girl who sucked hers off in front of everybody at the school.
Zahra talks about it being normal and how Zaton restraining himself when it comes to Shani is what's highly unusual.
Forget every moral norm you know of in the past and current present. DS is set in a very different epoch with very different morals to our own.
If you wanna speculate it's likely incest became normal among the survivors after the apocalyptic war centuries ago because initially there were so few humans left it was literally necessary to propagate the species and stave off extinction.
Any genetic dead ends that resulted from these unions would've been weeded out and died off in the harsh post-apocalyptic world.
Hell it's likely most harmful recessive genes that incest tends to bring out were largely purged through nature's own eugenics program called the barren wasteland.
Incest isn't new or rare in our own ancient history either. People that are mapping the genome and studying DNA have proven this. Humanity once came close to extinction in real life and from a population of around 1000 we now have billions.
Look it up it's interesting reading.
 
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