Ren'Py Divine Dawn [v0.32] [Cryswar]

[wahhaw]

I played this a couple of years ago and remember thinking the writing was great, few games can hold your interest when it's just text on text on text but this did. However coming back to it and restarting there's something that irks me that I feel a lot of writers do. In an effort to incorporate lore in a natural way and not just exposition dump they instead sprinkle it into conversation which can be great and is not inherently an issue. What is not great is when that dialogue feels unnatural. The opening conversation really took me out of it.
Imagine if you were hiking with your friend and you ask if there are any dangerous animals and they answer something like "There hasn't been any sight of dangerous animals here since 1954 when your grandfather John Dawn loosened the general hunting laws in national wildife refuges". No one talks like that it sounds like a tour guide. I'm not a writer and I'm certain writing natural sounding dialogue is no simple feat but this has annoyed me a lot lately across multiple mediums and I needed to vent

 

[Cryswar]

I played this a couple of years ago and remember thinking the writing was great, few games can hold your interest when it's just text on text on text but this did. However coming back to it and restarting there's something that irks me that I feel a lot of writers do. In an effort to incorporate lore in a natural way and not just exposition dump they instead sprinkle it into conversation which can be great and is not inherently an issue. What is not great is when that dialogue feels unnatural. The opening conversation really took me out of it.
Imagine if you were hiking with your friend and you ask if there are any dangerous animals and they answer something like "There hasn't been any sight of dangerous animals here since 1954 when your grandfather John Dawn loosened the general hunting laws in national wildife refuges". No one talks like that it sounds like a tour guide. I'm not a writer and I'm certain writing natural sounding dialogue is no simple feat but this has annoyed me a lot lately across multiple mediums and I needed to vent

I certainly try not to be too overt about it. Were there any specific parts of the opening conversation you felt came off that badly?

 

[Meeples2003]

full save ?

 

[Cryswar]

0.32 is out and free for everyone!

Changelog;

• Sarah got a new lovey thighjob CG, attached to a very... ethereal sort of scene. If you needed a reminder that she's a succubus, not a normal girl, this is it.
• Sarah also got a new trust scene, with a bit of character development, bonding, and hints for the future. Not all of them are good! Her finalizing her decision to invite Celica for the upcoming library research trip is, though.
• Sarah also got an amusing new conversation, in which you and she discuss Ashley's viability as the true Demon Queen. Her answer may or may not surprise you.
• Maya got a chonky new affection scene, which has her being almost suspiciously cute when she has her guard down. It also has doggo ear rubs. This is very important.
• Ina trust 4 and 6, delving heavily into Sahuagin lore and her feelings about it. Not all are positive, but it's a good bonding experience.
• Metatron gets a new trust 18, with a lot of emotions running rampant and a reveal of something that has been bothering her for some time. Robo-angel-wife has been going through a lot, please support her.

Download link is the usual, here

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[UnDeaD_CyBorG]

If you needed a reminder that she's a succubus

Can anyone seriously forget that?

Also, will the entire game happen in this forest, or will we at some point transition to another forest?

 

[Cryswar]

Can anyone seriously forget that?

Also, will the entire game happen in this forest, or will we at some point transition to another forest?

Got some plains and mountains to deal with next, will be in other locales for a while

and then another forest much smaller one tho

 

[UnDeaD_CyBorG]

Mostly wondering because there's a bunch of fluff text that assumes the presence of trees when you go meet other characters in camp. I do assume the camp will still be made up of tents.
But, I suppose that is mostly the "meeting" part, so on closer inspection it should be doable to seperate and have the actual texts make sense.
Edit: That is actually a relevant point. We now have access to the city, after all.
So far, every progress in the story only ever added something, not took an option away. But if we are to ever move, I assume we will not be in the same space. Though it wouldn't surprise me much either if you found an explanation for that, too. ^^

 

[Cryswar]

Mostly wondering because there's a bunch of fluff text that assumes the presence of trees when you go meet other characters in camp. I do assume the camp will still be made up of tents.
But, I suppose that is mostly the "meeting" part, so on closer inspection it should be doable to seperate and have the actual texts make sense.
Edit: That is actually a relevant point. We now have access to the city, after all.
So far, every progress in the story only ever added something, not took an option away. But if we are to ever move, I assume we will not be in the same space. Though it wouldn't surprise me much either if you found an explanation for that, too. ^^

So the idea is that each camp scene happens at a specific point in time. Scenes that you unlock post-Deepwoods make many references to Deepwoods content and could not be viewed beforehand. Similar for location. Pre-deepwoods stuff 100% canonically happened in that forest. Future scenes will be in other locations.

The actual camp background is swappable, but I don't have a good way to make sure it's accurate to scene timing yet, that will need work before I get too crazy with things.

On a more meta level, I feel like it would have been smarter to have a single, coherent location for a base (think CoC with the camp) and easier on me to boot, but we're a little late for that, and it wouldn't really fit this game's plot. If I do a game 2, I would definitely keep that in mind though.

 

[UnDeaD_CyBorG]

I assume a lot of things can be edited after you're a lot further in to make it sort of fit.
Including having a colour filter for past interactions or smth or a "check what actually happened before" option.
It'd just be weird informed decisions by the player are then pre-dated to a time when that information wasn't available.
After all, we learn about characters with each new interaction. Thus, our opinions of them will naturally change, assuming we do talk to them.
F.Ex., I at some point formed the opinion that Sarah was kind of creeping me out.
If, after some trust interaction 10 play-ours down the line (so probably around 2026), I revise this decision, the game might now have to assume that that happened way earlier than it did.
Meanwhile, "go to the city with X" can very easily be postdated. Or maybe there's just more than one city on the continent.

Just to mention it's probably prudent that numbered interactions with characters don't have too many mentions of trees.
Edit: of course, just like in nearly every other RPG, it is perfectly acceptable to have things happen in a specific time and space, and if players don't want to, then they either miss them, or you do a PnP GM style "oh, btw, last week this also happened" move, on the understanding that the player buys flexibility with a bit of continuity. You do you!

 

[zombieman69]

but she's not *evil* per se

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[Cryswar]

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It's strongly implied that she wasn't the one who did anything to the Elder, hobs did not start this clusterfuck (humans did), and it's made pretty clear that she doesn't want to kill humans or deal with a war, just keep the... notoriously awful Hieroneiden from genociding them again. That's why hobs are mostly hidden in the depths of the forest now, they were run out and nearly genocided by Hieroneiden before.

You want to talk evil, 80% of Hieroneiden's history makes anything Mara did look like kiddie pool shit, and the Sword end is pretty much MC extending that imperialistic and brutal mindset to yet another weaker group, same as countless Hieroneidan leaders and 'heroes' did before him - all in the name of 'peace'.

In the end, both Mara and the MC are willing to shed blood to enforce peace, regardless of which ending you pick, but the Sword ending is far more murderous than anything Mara planned to do. It's not meant to be a moral justification or anything to aspire to, just a brutal - but effective - way to end an insurrection and finish the genocide your forefathers started long ago.

 

[wtf356]

I played this a couple of years ago and remember thinking the writing was great, few games can hold your interest when it's just text on text on text but this did. However coming back to it and restarting there's something that irks me that I feel a lot of writers do. In an effort to incorporate lore in a natural way and not just exposition dump they instead sprinkle it into conversation which can be great and is not inherently an issue. What is not great is when that dialogue feels unnatural. The opening conversation really took me out of it.
Imagine if you were hiking with your friend and you ask if there are any dangerous animals and they answer something like "There hasn't been any sight of dangerous animals here since 1954 when your grandfather John Dawn loosened the general hunting laws in national wildife refuges". No one talks like that it sounds like a tour guide. I'm not a writer and I'm certain writing natural sounding dialogue is no simple feat but this has annoyed me a lot lately across multiple mediums and I needed to vent

Seconding. Having to grind through yet another bloody novel after each dialogue reply got really annoying really fast. Doesn't help that those walls of text are mostly unrelated to lore, instead describing in a great detail the same mental disability all of the party members (including MC) seem to be suffering from. Ended up repeatedly skipping past the actually important parts because of this.