Do you think that the "market" of indie porn game is saturated?

[215303j]

Myself, the conversational part of my game, is "VN like", fullscreen renders, render per 2-3 lines of text, and even then, with more than 1000 renders for not much more for 1 hour and half of gameplay, and even then I've spent more time on coding menus and gameplay.

Interesting inside perspective, thanks!

I'm not a dev so I don't know, but I had expected modelling, posing and rendering to take the vast majority of the time actually.

The point I was trying to make that, for a "simple" game like Candy Crush or early Super Mario versions, the visuals seem quite simple and repetitive, with the actual gameplay taking most of the development time. But maybe I'm wrong.

I could maybe see the porn industry branching into games at some point.

Maybe but I doubt they'd be successful.
Or rather, that I'd want to play anything they produce.

And, they already tried:

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Key quote here: "video games laced with sex never rise above mediocrity"

Which I personally think is quite true. An actual game distracts too much from the sex. That's why VN's work well IMHO. But given the porn industry's clear lack of ability to put together a coherent and compelling story, I doubt they are capable. Also, an indie dev has much more freedom in how he'll handle controversial topics, e.g. incest / blackmail / rape etc. Mainstream porn will remain weak on such topics out of fear for any backlash.

The game was met with mixed reception.

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and

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gave it a score of 60% and 59 out of 100 for the PC version,

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59.97% and 59 out of 100 for the PlayStation 2 version,

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and 62.14% and 61 out of 100 for the Xbox version.

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noted that the game was similar to The Sims series but was unfortunately less entertaining. It was considered "a little too slight a proposition for a full game."

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gave it a mixed review and stated, "Sex and nudity often work well in movies, but video games laced with sex never rise above mediocrity, and Mansion seems decidedly underbaked."

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gave it two-and-a-half stars out of five and called it "A frisky concept with limited thrills and not enough depth to challenge gamers."

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gave it two stars out of four and stated, "I flipped on the game expecting a world of champagne, roses and frequent wisps of steam. Instead, I got an immediate request that I construct an office on the mansion's upper floor."

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[khumak]

Maybe but I doubt they'd be successful.
Or rather, that I'd want to play anything they produce.

And, they already tried:

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Key quote here: "video games laced with sex never rise above mediocrity"

I'm not saying that they'd be good at it, just that they wouldn't have a reason to avoid damaging their brand since they're already doing porn.

I think we're a lot more likely to see better content if the market expands to the point where more people can make a real living doing their own game as a full time job. I see some people on Patreon making enough to pay the mortgaged, but I also still see patreon pages for games where the dev is making less than $1000 a month. You'd make more than that flipping burgers at McDonalds. So that pretty much relegates it to a hobby or at best a side business for people who aren't making more money at it.

I think the size of the porn industry proves that there's a sizeable market for it. It's just not really being served yet. Looking at the mod scene for AAA games, adult mods tend to be a pretty significant portion of the popular mods for those games as well. But even for AAA titles, mods are not very heavily utilized by most people because you have to go looking for them. Imagine how many more people would be using mods for a game like Skyrim or some other heavily modded game if all of that stuff was just available from the game menu, 1 click install, guaranteed to work with all other mods, at the same $0 cost as Nexus. I realize that's just not the way mods work, but I think that's what it would take for you to have most of the people who buy the game also use mods.

That's how easy things have to be to find for most people to bother trying it and there's nothing remotely approaching that for adult games. Where's the Patreon equivalent that's easily searchable, fully legal, not subject to unreasonable censorship, and not being served by an ad network laden with malware?

 

[polywog]

Interesting inside perspective, thanks!

I'm not a dev so I don't know, but I had expected modelling, posing and rendering to take the vast majority of the time actually.

The point I was trying to make that, for a "simple" game like Candy Crush or early Super Mario versions, the visuals seem quite simple and repetitive, with the actual gameplay taking most of the development time. But maybe I'm wrong.


Maybe but I doubt they'd be successful.
Or rather, that I'd want to play anything they produce.

And, they already tried:

You must be registered to see the links

Key quote here: "video games laced with sex never rise above mediocrity"

Which I personally think is quite true. An actual game distracts too much from the sex. That's why VN's work well IMHO. But given the porn industry's clear lack of ability to put together a coherent and compelling story, I doubt they are capable. Also, an indie dev has much more freedom in how he'll handle controversial topics, e.g. incest / blackmail / rape etc. Mainstream porn will remain weak on such topics out of fear for any backlash.

 

[Zippity]

Do I think that this niche of the porn industry, aka Erotic/Adult Visual Novels and Games, is over saturated? I have an answer but it's sort of complex:

There are certain themes/tropes that are very over used... Things like the slow build up that always starts with peeping, creeping around the house at night, walking into bedrooms without knocking, the broken bathroom lock, perving on women as they sleep, and the list goes on... These sorts of things are used very highly in lower to medium quality VN/Games, usually by newer developers, who have very little experience and/or talent for making these things... Most likely because they were seen in other VN/Games, and are easier to start off with in the slower corruption/seduction/mind control build up grinders and visual novels... I don't think it's too bad, when just a couple of them are used, but over the years I've seen a huge number of VN/Games that pretty much use all of them, in one form or another... And therefore the market it over saturated with these copy cat type starters... It just depends on how quickly or how many are used, and in what context, when determining if they feel out of place and/or unoriginal, some of the time...

The Erotic/Adult VN/Game market is also a bit oversaturated with the Incest theme (I'm sure the pro-incest folks will spout out at the mouth in defense of this one)… It's not as bad as it was a couple years ago, but it is still very present... And not because it's necessarily desired, by the over all readership/playerbase, but because newer developers believe it's an easy money maker... This misconception is mostly due to the incest gold rush, brought on several years ago by a tiny handful of big money makers, around the same time that Patreon was gaining popularity amongst developers in this market... An insane number of newer developers flooded the market with Incest themed VN/Games around that time, and it really hasn't slowed down at all... It's not really popular amongst the greater readership/playerbase, but instead is popular amongst developers... Thereby giving the impression that because there are so many VN/Games using it, it must be popular overall... It's a misconception...

Which brings me to the direct question being asked... Is the Erotic/Adult Visual Novel and Game niche of the porn industry being saturated? In some ways, yes... If you look at what has happened in the past, coupled with what is still going on, there are so many newer developers beginning new projects... But that was also true in the past, around the same time as the gold rush I mentioned... And if you look at what has happened before, many of the new starters eventually abandoned their projects... Several factors made that happen, but the primary one was most likely the difficulty of making a unique and well designed VN/Game... It is not something any joe off the street can just begin doing, and expect it to be all that easy and/or do well... Once the market gets it's first taste of a new product, it is touch and go, as to whether it will be accepted well by the majority, or hated, or just sort of chug along... There will always be some who like a new project initially, but will it be good enough to last, and/or will the developer stick it out? In a lot of cases, they will not, based on the patterns of the past... But for those deciding to stick it out, the quality can still vary, depending on what they are trying to accomplish in the first place, and how they actually do over the long haul... Some find their small niche of this niche market, get some paying fans, and they are satisfied with just that... No desire to be this huge big hitter... Some continue on, with very few paying fans, because their product just isn't appealing enough, and/or isn't really all that good, but they keep on trucking regardless...

Because there are so many newer developers of varying skill, experience, talent, etc... The market is flooded with varying levels of quality and quantity... In the western market, it is primarily made up of Amateur developers... It's mostly the Japanese market that is full of professional business made products... And in a mostly amateur market you have various reasons why people make these things... Some have ideas popping in their heads, and want to put their ideas into their own version of a VN/Game, with money being an after thought... Some have ideas, and have the skill/talent to make these things, so they do so, with money only being a means to an end... Some want to go pro in this field or others, and this market is just a stepping off point for achieving that goal... Some believe they have talent and therefore they try their hand at this market, due to large ego's, but it ends up they don't... Some need to feel a sense of belonging, regardless if they have the skill/talent, and their over all goal is recognition/prestige, needing their ego to be stroked (consciously or subconsciously)... Of course, there are lots of other varying reasons... But a majority want to make money as their true end game, even if they enjoy making these things or not... Hence we have a market saturated with newer developers alongside the more experienced developers... And it's a gamble for both the developers and the readers/players...

You also see the market flooded with developers who want to milk a project for as long as they can, while pandering to their paying fans wishes, again in order to prolong it's existence... Because with Patreon being a subscription based system, the longer you can hold on to those subscriptions, the longer you keep making money... Why finish a project too quickly, because that would mean the flow of money slowing down and/or stopping... Then he/she would have to come up with a new idea for a new project, and that is harder (and more time consuming) then just stringing the current project along... Pandering so as not to lose current subs, teasing some new content now and then to keep folks satisfied, and maybe bringing in new subs as new people discover the project and come on board, over the long haul... I would hope this isn't the norm, but sometimes it's hard to know/tell...

Sorry for the long winded answer...

Zip

 

[215303j]

I think that one problem of erotic games is that they take up a lot of time.

This is because they are (almost neccessarily) story-heavy. You need the time to get invested in the story and the background. It makes the pay-off much better in the end.

But still they take a lot of time. Generally, on average, I play one update per day. However the last 24 hours, there were 30 games in the "Latest Update" list.... So I can choose to play either one of these 30 or play another one that I downloaded earlier. This clearly doesn't work properly.

Compare this to a porn video, where you can just look at a screenshot, think "This girl is hot! Download!" and there you go.

 

[Ragnar]

Yes, years ago there were very few games and only some sites like LOP lived from games or aspired to it.
Right now we have hundreds of games in development, thanks to the success of some games in Patreon, many of which will be abandoned after one or few updates. Now is harder to gain supporters due to the Patreon weg gold fever.

Almost anyone with a PC can make something with Ren'py or rpgmaker, often of dubious quality and just looking to make fast bank. That search for fast money leads to clone games in a market that is already saturated with clones.
This does not mean that the indie scene isn't going to continue growing, some developers are very serious and they are making increasingly better games to gain a foothold.

The market will cull the weak.

 

[researchpurposes]

Yes and no. Yes because I won't even bother trying most games because something about them puts me off but I'd probably be more willing to give it a shot if there weren't so many of them constantly being released.
But then I think about some of my favorite games and wonder why nobody made something similar to this that was somewhat decent? Akabur's trainergames come to mind, if it was so over-saturated why don't we have one of these for every single cartooncharacter that we can think of? No disrespect to the great akabur but someone who "rips off" his ideas could probably bring in some new ideas that would make their games even better than the originals. If I wasn't so incompetent I'd make them myself because I know people love that shit.

 

[Toko]

I think its saturated with games that'll never be finished, and that it is disappointing seeing some of those really great ones abandoned.

But I think it'd be very difficult for there to be saturated, considering that its basically cut into a million individual segments cattering to individual interests and fetishes.

Websites like this are a godsend for navigating those million slices, and exposing you to new segments that you'd never look at ordinarily.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

Well, Patreon has nearly 3000 devs seeking support for their projects, and this website has nearly 4000 games available in varying degrees of completion. But the vast majority of devs and games don't get much support or play. I don't know whether that's due to oversaturation or just the fact that the percentage of games that might be 4 or 5 star quality is pretty low, and why would you patronize a mediocre or even bad game?

 

[polywog]

Porn is an industry that’s always in search of new performers. Fans crave variety. Clone games are not a bad thing. I would rather play Dating My Redhead Daughter, than the original version... If the game developer includes options in the original game, all the better. Same scene, same story, just a few extra small renders while you're making the VN, let the player choose = a much larger fan base.

 

[polywog]

Well, Patreon has nearly 3000 devs seeking support for their projects, and this website has nearly 4000 games available in varying degrees of completion. But the vast majority of devs and games don't get much support or play. I don't know whether that's due to oversaturation or just the fact that the percentage of games that might be 4 or 5 star quality is pretty low, and why would you patronize a mediocre or even bad game?

A study by the NCAA concluded:
“Sadly though, it comes as a rude surprise to many athletes yearning for a professional sports career to learn that the odds against success are astronomically high. Approximately 1 percent of NCAA men’s basketball players and 2 percent of NCAA football players are drafted by NBA or NFL teams – and just being drafted is no assurance of a successful professional career. “Student-athletes” whose sole and now failed objective was to make the pros suddenly find themselves in a world that demands skills their universities did not require them to learn.”

Lucky for game developers, you don't have to work quite as hard and fuck up your education to make games. If you can't cut it playing football after spending your whole life practicing, you end up working in the sewers of Kartedhir. Whereas game developers who don't make the big leagues might have something else to fall back on. Say you take an arrow to the knee, while making games, it's not the end of your career. Some of those devs on patreon trying out will make it, and some won't, but the odds are a lot better than some other life-choices.

why would you patronize a mediocre or even bad game? beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
you don't have to be great, it helps to be good, but even bad game devs can make a living at it, if they have some business sense.
any website can generate ad revenue. if people come to your site to check out a game, you got hits on your site, even if they hate the game

 

[BeCe]

These things come in waves. Success -> Copycats -> Failure -> Abandonment -> New Trend -> Success -> Copycats -> etc, etc, etc.
I wouldn't worry too much about oversaturation.

I see a lot of Patreon stretch goals that if they earn a certain amount they will quit their job and work on it full time. Those I don;t even bother downloading, they will be abandoned in a few months. Quitting a steady job with a certain income to try and make a living in the uncertain field of H game development, idiocy.

Hey! That's one of my stretch goals!
But in fairness, I never even expected to get as much as I have already. I do this because it's fun and the little bit extra every month is nice and if one day maybe I can quit the regular jackass life then fantastic, but I am not planning my life around it.

 

[gamersglory]

The Renders are what takes the most time Posing can take a few hours and then the Rendering can take a few more. Even if you intend to do this as a "hobby" the amount of time you spend on it becomes a second job at the least. the very few that can afford to do this full time are very lucky. As for if it's oversaturated I would say that when you have 20 bad games for every one good one the answer would be no not yet.

 

[polywog]

The Renders are what takes the most time Posing can take a few hours and then the Rendering can take a few more. Even if you intend to do this as a "hobby" the amount of time you spend on it becomes a second job at the least. the very few that can afford to do this full time are very lucky. As for if it's oversaturated I would say that when you have 20 bad games for every one good one the answer would be no not yet.

Rendering takes no time. Queue your renders to run overnight, and go spend your time on something else.
Man hours vs machine hours big difference in the two. It didn't take YOU hours to render, unless you were peddling the generator to power the computer.

 

[tomcire]

but even bad game devs can make a living at it, if they have some business sense.
any website can generate ad revenue. if people come to your site to check out a game, you got hits on your site, even if they hate the game

Thank you for the advise, you are a genius.
I finally got it.
I'll make the most offensive game on earth and put a section for anonymous comments!
Everybody will come to insult me and I'll get the money!

 

[gamersglory]

Rendering takes no time. Queue your renders to run overnight, and go spend your time on something else.
Man hours vs machine hours big difference in the two. It didn't take YOU hours to render, unless you were peddling the generator to power the computer.

Yah use batch render all the time. machine hours= Hardware degradation, Power use which last I checked is not free.

 

[gamersglory]

Thank you for the advise, you are a genius.
I finally got it.
I'll make the most offensive game on earth and put a section for anonymous comments!
Everybody will come to insult me and I'll get the money!

Guy already did that with that rape game with shitty renders

 

[tomcire]

Guy already did that with that rape game with shitty renders

I wasn't serious... even if shock value may be important in a business.

 

[polywog]

Guy already did that with that rape game with shitty renders

Do you live under a rock? Turned out the whole "rape day" game thing was a psyop by bad people in the government trying to get laws passed to regulate games. He wasn't a game developer at all he's a Senior Airman in the military. A False flag, where the government did it, and then blames it on "gamers" bullshit.

 

[Joshua Tree]

This also assumes that none of the big game studios ever create an "adult division" and produce any games with a real production budget. I don't see that happening because companies don't want their brand damaged by the association, but I could maybe see the porn industry branching into games at some point.

You will never see such as Electronic Arts, Activision etc to start make adult games. It just not money in it, at least not the money they chase. Adult games become to small a niche for them. Not to far fetched to think some game studio could rise to start production of "good" adult games. Problem is more they would be prone to handle everything from funding, publishing and distribution themselves. That would require a whole other level of commitment, and funding required than some indy dev doing it s a hobby in their spare time. Game studios kinda seek publishers as a safety net, to avoid have to do all that stuff and focus on actual game development. In the process also give up their soul and at large part creative control.