TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
13,802
32,431
I always use 7-zip to unzip every file and I never once had any issues only with this one.
That should be fine, though it couldn't hurt to update it.
It seems like the exe is missing, which is odd, you could try copying the exe to that folder.

Or try extracting it to a root folder, and make sure you don't get any errors, and that you have enough free space.
 

Lilithblackbriar

Active Member
Oct 19, 2021
671
236
That should be fine, though it couldn't hurt to update it.
It seems like the exe is missing, which is odd, you could try copying the exe to that folder.

Or try extracting it to a root folder, and make sure you don't get any errors, and that you have enough free space.
Maybe when I downloaded it it could have an error I know I was downloading a file tonight when my internet connection disconnected and the file stopped but can't remember if the file was this game or another if it was this game then that could have been the cause so maybe a redownload again.
 

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
13,802
32,431
Maybe when I downloaded it it could have an error I know I was downloading a file tonight when my internet connection disconnected and the file stopped but can't remember if the file was this game or another if it was this game then that could have been the cause so maybe a redownload again.
Yeah, corruption can happen on rare occasions.
 

K18

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2018
1,011
7,041

So there isn't a whole lot for me to say here. Life has taken off, what remains a very passionate project is something I just can't keep up with. I had a dream once of making this game full time but other opportunities took center stage and financially it just never made sense for me to quit my job and work solely on the game. Add to that mix a couple years of pandemic nonsense and conflicting responsibilities and things slid.

So it's with tremendous disappointment that I won't be able to continue this game in the same manner that I once did.

Originally this game/story was a joint effort by myself and compatriots, DataDog, Fecalmancer and Xanatos. As the team dwindled down to just myself, I continued to drive forward as strongly as I could learning all the skills I would need to bring this game to fruition. It was a fun learning experience and seeing the characters in my head come to life in Daz and to see other share in that love was a wonderful experience.

But the world stops turning for no one and as it turned out from under me I had to make the choice. Let the game die and enjoy what was came from its short life, or try like hell to find a way to carry on.

As you all know, especially those on Discord and F95Zone, I tried like hell to get others to help me with the game. I even offered up a 80% share of the proceeds from the game to any artist that wanted to step up and carry the bulk of the water.

When that failed, I even attempted to give up 100% of the proceeds if it just meant seeing the story go on, but again, no takers.

And so I continued to write, continued to build stories in my head for the characters and tried to keep pace with the changes in Renpy and Daz, but time to work on the game continued to elude me and I just never had the free time needed to revisit the world I had created and the beautiful women I had populated it with.

And then, a ray of hope. For all the time I worked on this game I did so in private. There were none in my social circles who know I had this little pet project on the side and that in the dark hours of the night I was nurturing these awesome sexual fantasies. It wasn't that there was any shame in what I was doing. Quite the opposite, there was a tremendous amount of pride in what I had managed to complete on my own. But I didn't want it to dominate the conversation or become 'the thing I was known for.' To reveal to others the work I was doing on the game would eclipse so much else just by the sheer nature of its lovely perversity.

And when I did finally speak of the project of passion that was rapidly fading in my rear-view mirror I was surprised to find a potential successor.

Meep has been a good friend for a long time now and I should have suspected that based on our past mutual interests she'd be interested in the game. After playing through it several times, we found ourselves locked in hours long conversations about the characters and the story that's written and the story that I wanted to write.

With each additional conversation her enthusiasm grew and she started asking the technical questions surrounding what it would take to make her own game. Almost half jokingly I asked if she wanted to take over my game. Her response, "Can I?!"

Suddenly my interest in the possibilities were renewed and I was excited once more about the prospect of building onto the game. And then...creative differences.

It would have been foolish to expect that any successor to the Doctor Amana game would fall lock step in behind me and let me drive the creative process while only doing a quarter of the work. And so for the last few months Meep and I have been trying to hammer out how we can make this work.

After several rounds of brain storming and honest communication I finally came to realize that if I try to stifle her enthusiasm with my unrelenting view of the story I'm going to snuff what passion she has for this project.

In the end I had to make a very tough call.

And so, after a year of trying to find someone capable to take over, I'm making the choice to step aside and let new blood breath life into this project and resuscitate the world of Doctor Amana.

It wasn't an easy decision, and honestly, I'm still trying to adapt to the new regime.

But this is Meep's time now and I'm going to give her my full support and see just where she takes this thing. And while her destination might not be the same as mine would have been, knowing her, it'll still go somewhere spectacular.

And so after today I'm surrendering to her the credentials to Patreon and Subscribestar. I've given her both of the computers I built to generate the art for the game and she's got access to all the 3rd party resources I was using, music, Renpy, etc.

She is also taking over as creative director. The story is hers now to do with as she pleases. I will continue to write the dialogue and construct the narrative on screen, but where these characters go and what they end up doing is ultimately in her hands.

I trust she is going to do a great job!

I'll still be around on Discord and F95Zone under my normal handles. Meep has her own for those. I just won't be posting on Patreon or Subscribestar after today.

These are her domains now.

Thanks to everyone who has supported this project through the years and thank you for loving these characters as much as I have.

I'm excited to see where Meep takes them and discover what shenanigans she has in store for them!

No doubt it'll be sexy good fun!
 

Chuck_Bass

Member
Nov 25, 2022
340
830

So there isn't a whole lot for me to say here. Life has taken off, what remains a very passionate project is something I just can't keep up with. I had a dream once of making this game full time but other opportunities took center stage and financially it just never made sense for me to quit my job and work solely on the game. Add to that mix a couple years of pandemic nonsense and conflicting responsibilities and things slid.

So it's with tremendous disappointment that I won't be able to continue this game in the same manner that I once did.

Originally this game/story was a joint effort by myself and compatriots, DataDog, Fecalmancer and Xanatos. As the team dwindled down to just myself, I continued to drive forward as strongly as I could learning all the skills I would need to bring this game to fruition. It was a fun learning experience and seeing the characters in my head come to life in Daz and to see other share in that love was a wonderful experience.

But the world stops turning for no one and as it turned out from under me I had to make the choice. Let the game die and enjoy what was came from its short life, or try like hell to find a way to carry on.

As you all know, especially those on Discord and F95Zone, I tried like hell to get others to help me with the game. I even offered up a 80% share of the proceeds from the game to any artist that wanted to step up and carry the bulk of the water.

When that failed, I even attempted to give up 100% of the proceeds if it just meant seeing the story go on, but again, no takers.

And so I continued to write, continued to build stories in my head for the characters and tried to keep pace with the changes in Renpy and Daz, but time to work on the game continued to elude me and I just never had the free time needed to revisit the world I had created and the beautiful women I had populated it with.

And then, a ray of hope. For all the time I worked on this game I did so in private. There were none in my social circles who know I had this little pet project on the side and that in the dark hours of the night I was nurturing these awesome sexual fantasies. It wasn't that there was any shame in what I was doing. Quite the opposite, there was a tremendous amount of pride in what I had managed to complete on my own. But I didn't want it to dominate the conversation or become 'the thing I was known for.' To reveal to others the work I was doing on the game would eclipse so much else just by the sheer nature of its lovely perversity.

And when I did finally speak of the project of passion that was rapidly fading in my rear-view mirror I was surprised to find a potential successor.

Meep has been a good friend for a long time now and I should have suspected that based on our past mutual interests she'd be interested in the game. After playing through it several times, we found ourselves locked in hours long conversations about the characters and the story that's written and the story that I wanted to write.

With each additional conversation her enthusiasm grew and she started asking the technical questions surrounding what it would take to make her own game. Almost half jokingly I asked if she wanted to take over my game. Her response, "Can I?!"

Suddenly my interest in the possibilities were renewed and I was excited once more about the prospect of building onto the game. And then...creative differences.

It would have been foolish to expect that any successor to the Doctor Amana game would fall lock step in behind me and let me drive the creative process while only doing a quarter of the work. And so for the last few months Meep and I have been trying to hammer out how we can make this work.

After several rounds of brain storming and honest communication I finally came to realize that if I try to stifle her enthusiasm with my unrelenting view of the story I'm going to snuff what passion she has for this project.

In the end I had to make a very tough call.

And so, after a year of trying to find someone capable to take over, I'm making the choice to step aside and let new blood breath life into this project and resuscitate the world of Doctor Amana.

It wasn't an easy decision, and honestly, I'm still trying to adapt to the new regime.

But this is Meep's time now and I'm going to give her my full support and see just where she takes this thing. And while her destination might not be the same as mine would have been, knowing her, it'll still go somewhere spectacular.

And so after today I'm surrendering to her the credentials to Patreon and Subscribestar. I've given her both of the computers I built to generate the art for the game and she's got access to all the 3rd party resources I was using, music, Renpy, etc.

She is also taking over as creative director. The story is hers now to do with as she pleases. I will continue to write the dialogue and construct the narrative on screen, but where these characters go and what they end up doing is ultimately in her hands.

I trust she is going to do a great job!

I'll still be around on Discord and F95Zone under my normal handles. Meep has her own for those. I just won't be posting on Patreon or Subscribestar after today.

These are her domains now.

Thanks to everyone who has supported this project through the years and thank you for loving these characters as much as I have.

I'm excited to see where Meep takes them and discover what shenanigans she has in store for them!

No doubt it'll be sexy good fun!
I just finished playing it yesterday, I hope the project will continue and maybe finish at some point.
Good luck!
 
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Samuel Hidayat

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2019
1,821
2,415

So there isn't a whole lot for me to say here. Life has taken off, what remains a very passionate project is something I just can't keep up with. I had a dream once of making this game full time but other opportunities took center stage and financially it just never made sense for me to quit my job and work solely on the game. Add to that mix a couple years of pandemic nonsense and conflicting responsibilities and things slid.

So it's with tremendous disappointment that I won't be able to continue this game in the same manner that I once did.

Originally this game/story was a joint effort by myself and compatriots, DataDog, Fecalmancer and Xanatos. As the team dwindled down to just myself, I continued to drive forward as strongly as I could learning all the skills I would need to bring this game to fruition. It was a fun learning experience and seeing the characters in my head come to life in Daz and to see other share in that love was a wonderful experience.

But the world stops turning for no one and as it turned out from under me I had to make the choice. Let the game die and enjoy what was came from its short life, or try like hell to find a way to carry on.

As you all know, especially those on Discord and F95Zone, I tried like hell to get others to help me with the game. I even offered up a 80% share of the proceeds from the game to any artist that wanted to step up and carry the bulk of the water.

When that failed, I even attempted to give up 100% of the proceeds if it just meant seeing the story go on, but again, no takers.

And so I continued to write, continued to build stories in my head for the characters and tried to keep pace with the changes in Renpy and Daz, but time to work on the game continued to elude me and I just never had the free time needed to revisit the world I had created and the beautiful women I had populated it with.

And then, a ray of hope. For all the time I worked on this game I did so in private. There were none in my social circles who know I had this little pet project on the side and that in the dark hours of the night I was nurturing these awesome sexual fantasies. It wasn't that there was any shame in what I was doing. Quite the opposite, there was a tremendous amount of pride in what I had managed to complete on my own. But I didn't want it to dominate the conversation or become 'the thing I was known for.' To reveal to others the work I was doing on the game would eclipse so much else just by the sheer nature of its lovely perversity.

And when I did finally speak of the project of passion that was rapidly fading in my rear-view mirror I was surprised to find a potential successor.

Meep has been a good friend for a long time now and I should have suspected that based on our past mutual interests she'd be interested in the game. After playing through it several times, we found ourselves locked in hours long conversations about the characters and the story that's written and the story that I wanted to write.

With each additional conversation her enthusiasm grew and she started asking the technical questions surrounding what it would take to make her own game. Almost half jokingly I asked if she wanted to take over my game. Her response, "Can I?!"

Suddenly my interest in the possibilities were renewed and I was excited once more about the prospect of building onto the game. And then...creative differences.

It would have been foolish to expect that any successor to the Doctor Amana game would fall lock step in behind me and let me drive the creative process while only doing a quarter of the work. And so for the last few months Meep and I have been trying to hammer out how we can make this work.

After several rounds of brain storming and honest communication I finally came to realize that if I try to stifle her enthusiasm with my unrelenting view of the story I'm going to snuff what passion she has for this project.

In the end I had to make a very tough call.

And so, after a year of trying to find someone capable to take over, I'm making the choice to step aside and let new blood breath life into this project and resuscitate the world of Doctor Amana.

It wasn't an easy decision, and honestly, I'm still trying to adapt to the new regime.

But this is Meep's time now and I'm going to give her my full support and see just where she takes this thing. And while her destination might not be the same as mine would have been, knowing her, it'll still go somewhere spectacular.

And so after today I'm surrendering to her the credentials to Patreon and Subscribestar. I've given her both of the computers I built to generate the art for the game and she's got access to all the 3rd party resources I was using, music, Renpy, etc.

She is also taking over as creative director. The story is hers now to do with as she pleases. I will continue to write the dialogue and construct the narrative on screen, but where these characters go and what they end up doing is ultimately in her hands.

I trust she is going to do a great job!

I'll still be around on Discord and F95Zone under my normal handles. Meep has her own for those. I just won't be posting on Patreon or Subscribestar after today.

These are her domains now.

Thanks to everyone who has supported this project through the years and thank you for loving these characters as much as I have.

I'm excited to see where Meep takes them and discover what shenanigans she has in store for them!

No doubt it'll be sexy good fun!
Man, never thought the creative differences spread far beyond the rendering process. Let's hope Meep won't stray too far from your OG vision. Even if it does, hopefully for the better.

Good luck on your new venture.
 

jaw1986baby

Chasing Redhead sm0ls
Donor
Jun 2, 2017
2,345
7,155

So there isn't a whole lot for me to say here. Life has taken off, what remains a very passionate project is something I just can't keep up with. I had a dream once of making this game full time but other opportunities took center stage and financially it just never made sense for me to quit my job and work solely on the game. Add to that mix a couple years of pandemic nonsense and conflicting responsibilities and things slid.

So it's with tremendous disappointment that I won't be able to continue this game in the same manner that I once did.

Originally this game/story was a joint effort by myself and compatriots, DataDog, Fecalmancer and Xanatos. As the team dwindled down to just myself, I continued to drive forward as strongly as I could learning all the skills I would need to bring this game to fruition. It was a fun learning experience and seeing the characters in my head come to life in Daz and to see other share in that love was a wonderful experience.

But the world stops turning for no one and as it turned out from under me I had to make the choice. Let the game die and enjoy what was came from its short life, or try like hell to find a way to carry on.

As you all know, especially those on Discord and F95Zone, I tried like hell to get others to help me with the game. I even offered up a 80% share of the proceeds from the game to any artist that wanted to step up and carry the bulk of the water.

When that failed, I even attempted to give up 100% of the proceeds if it just meant seeing the story go on, but again, no takers.

And so I continued to write, continued to build stories in my head for the characters and tried to keep pace with the changes in Renpy and Daz, but time to work on the game continued to elude me and I just never had the free time needed to revisit the world I had created and the beautiful women I had populated it with.

And then, a ray of hope. For all the time I worked on this game I did so in private. There were none in my social circles who know I had this little pet project on the side and that in the dark hours of the night I was nurturing these awesome sexual fantasies. It wasn't that there was any shame in what I was doing. Quite the opposite, there was a tremendous amount of pride in what I had managed to complete on my own. But I didn't want it to dominate the conversation or become 'the thing I was known for.' To reveal to others the work I was doing on the game would eclipse so much else just by the sheer nature of its lovely perversity.

And when I did finally speak of the project of passion that was rapidly fading in my rear-view mirror I was surprised to find a potential successor.

Meep has been a good friend for a long time now and I should have suspected that based on our past mutual interests she'd be interested in the game. After playing through it several times, we found ourselves locked in hours long conversations about the characters and the story that's written and the story that I wanted to write.

With each additional conversation her enthusiasm grew and she started asking the technical questions surrounding what it would take to make her own game. Almost half jokingly I asked if she wanted to take over my game. Her response, "Can I?!"

Suddenly my interest in the possibilities were renewed and I was excited once more about the prospect of building onto the game. And then...creative differences.

It would have been foolish to expect that any successor to the Doctor Amana game would fall lock step in behind me and let me drive the creative process while only doing a quarter of the work. And so for the last few months Meep and I have been trying to hammer out how we can make this work.

After several rounds of brain storming and honest communication I finally came to realize that if I try to stifle her enthusiasm with my unrelenting view of the story I'm going to snuff what passion she has for this project.

In the end I had to make a very tough call.

And so, after a year of trying to find someone capable to take over, I'm making the choice to step aside and let new blood breath life into this project and resuscitate the world of Doctor Amana.

It wasn't an easy decision, and honestly, I'm still trying to adapt to the new regime.

But this is Meep's time now and I'm going to give her my full support and see just where she takes this thing. And while her destination might not be the same as mine would have been, knowing her, it'll still go somewhere spectacular.

And so after today I'm surrendering to her the credentials to Patreon and Subscribestar. I've given her both of the computers I built to generate the art for the game and she's got access to all the 3rd party resources I was using, music, Renpy, etc.

She is also taking over as creative director. The story is hers now to do with as she pleases. I will continue to write the dialogue and construct the narrative on screen, but where these characters go and what they end up doing is ultimately in her hands.

I trust she is going to do a great job!

I'll still be around on Discord and F95Zone under my normal handles. Meep has her own for those. I just won't be posting on Patreon or Subscribestar after today.

These are her domains now.

Thanks to everyone who has supported this project through the years and thank you for loving these characters as much as I have.

I'm excited to see where Meep takes them and discover what shenanigans she has in store for them!

No doubt it'll be sexy good fun!
RomanHume
Sad but ultimately better than death and obsolescence

Her direction may differ from yours but if it has a chance to be realized that is a positive thing at the end of the day.

I look forward to see where this goes. And I truly thank you for what you have already shared, it has been fun.

Good luck to you both




PEACE
 

Bratman215

Newbie
Jul 30, 2019
27
78
I played this game for the first time today, and WOW! I loved it. This hit so many of my kinks! I tried both red and blue for all characters. I really hope Meep picks this up because I would ABSOLUTELY contribute to their patreon if they did. There are too many great games here and on tfgamesite that have become abandoned and I'd hate to see this one end up there as well. But I understand that sometimes life gets in the way.
 
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ILCjr

Active Member
Dec 27, 2018
966
996
Glad to see that this story has been given new life. Here is to the success of the story.
 

Donjoe81

Member
Dec 30, 2022
306
1,366
I played this game for the first time today, and WOW! I loved it. This hit so many of my kinks! I tried both red and blue for all characters. I really hope Meep picks this up because I would ABSOLUTELY contribute to their patreon if they did. There are too many great games here and on tfgamesite that have become abandoned and I'd hate to see this one end up there as well. But I understand that sometimes life gets in the way.
Yeah same. I think this game is really well done and you can see that a lot of passion went in to it.
I hope that it gets continued and also hope that the story or path that was planned wont be completely scrapped.
 
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Bratman215

Newbie
Jul 30, 2019
27
78
Yeah same. I think this game is really well done and you can see that a lot of passion went in to it.
I hope that it gets continued and also hope that the story or path that was planned wont be completely scrapped.
If I was at all good at Daz3D, I would help them out. But all I can offer is helping on Patreon when the new author commits.
 
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dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
2,025
4,988
Thanks for picking up the project. :)

Useful feedback may be hard to get here tbh, since those of us still following are so used to the original and really liked what RomanHume was doing with it all (I was particularly a fan of the subtle yet communicative facial expressions) before his fulltime job made it impossible. So any feedback we give will probably be tainted by that. Plus, you're getting into the groove of the characters yourself. So what is shown now may change a bunch as the process continues.

Initial feedback though: I like the realism of the G9 skin more. But the feel of the character is definitely different. Amanda 1 looks a little less trusting and more guarded in general, but very present. It's hard to get a read on any thoughts or expressions in the face of Amanda 2 so far. A bit blank in the first two renders. The third render, maybe melancholy and distant. But if I were looking at her through MC's eyes, I feel like she'd be looking at me as someone who doesn't know me that well and might not have the comfort level that familiarity brings. I know that feedback contradicts how I describe Amanda 1's look "less trusting, more guarded". But her expressions seem to show more familiarity with MC where she might let that guard down. Amanda 2 seems more just like "your neighbor's daughter's friend" and is harder to read.

Like I said, that perception could be tainted by familiarity with the OG character somewhat, so it's hard for me to judge how accurate I'm being with the feedback. I hope it helps, though!

As an aside, Amanda 2's model has more noticeably Asian-like features, especially in the second render. Nothing wrong with making that sort of change, but just a notable difference. I'm personally less a fan of swaps like that in a re-imagining, but for those encountering the game for the first time, it'll be six of one, half dozen of the other. Likely NBD for them.
 
Last edited:

-CookieMonster666-

Devoted Member
Nov 20, 2018
11,339
16,564
so im trying to update the characters to g9.
amanda is almost done but if you have any feedback let me know!

View attachment 2319329 View attachment 2319330 View attachment 2319333
It's hard to say why, but there are some things that I'll definitely miss if the model ends up more like your updated one. Here are some thoughts on various points of the change:
  • Somehow her overall appearance feels more confident that previously, and I'm not sure why exactly. There are some things that I think might contribute to that feeling, but IDK if this is comprehensive:
    • The hair color now feels too bold; the lighter pink almost conveys insecurity, whereas the newer shade feels rebellious instead. Maybe it's not the shade but the style itself (like the braid)? Not sure. Is there a G9 hairstyle more similar to the older one? Maybe that's not a resource available, though.
    • The cheeks are a bit rounder than before also, which does make her seem a little bit like a different character but not in a bothersome way IMO. I do think this might be contributing some to the change in feeling that is conveyed visually.
  • I'm indifferent on the skin tone differences; I don't feel like she'll feel any different really with those generally. I would say I agree with dontcare, however. I do wonder whether seeming more tanned might be making her seem more confident too. I don't think so, but I'm not versed in the psychology of art to this fine of a detail.
  • I think I prefer the earlier breast shape, although I don't care all that much. It's just a personal preference, especially since they aren't all that different.
  • I like how you kept the same angle of eyebrows and that the eyes are very similar in shape and tone. That will help her feel like the Amanda I've come to love.
  • Does she still have braces? I quite liked that she had those, adding to her innocence and lack of self-confidence. (Not that I prefer lack of confidence or anything, mind you. In this case, it made her that much cuter to me though.)
  • I like the collarbone definition you added. I think it is a nice touch and adds some sexiness to someone completely unaware of her own beauty.
  • While I really liked the persistent blush on her cheeks, I actually think the redesign is better in that regard. Maybe something along the lines of the old blush can be added when she's actually blushing and not stay there constantly. It will make a good distinction, I think.
I guess that's all I can think of offhand. I appreciate your reaching out for feedback too! It shows you really care and want to stay true to the original while also making it your own. I feel like this is in very good hands now. Heart.png
 
Last edited:

Ayhsel

Chocolate Vampire
Donor
May 9, 2019
4,874
16,047
so im trying to update the characters to g9.
amanda is almost done but if you have any feedback let me know!

View attachment 2319329 View attachment 2319330 View attachment 2319333
So happy to see someone is keeping this alive!

The best of this story were the characters (personality) and the dialogue. So please do not overstress over graphs. Although, to be fair, the last release with Cassie chapter was mind-blowingly beautiful.

Just hope you don't get over stressed too, I see most devs, specially new devs, tend to underestimate the effort needed to produce a novel.

I would also try to refrain from asking too much to the fanbase. A good every once in a while for specific things is good, but believe me, we can be very spoiled individuals. Not me, as the supervillain who will dominate Earth, I am actually entitled to my shenanigans! Which tends to be demanding devs to do things the way I want, how I want, whenever I want asking devs to take care of themselves!

Also please do not overstress about some random trolls coming on the website demanding stuff. It is part of F95. I tend to troll them back but someone will be there to put them in place.

Welcome and thank you!!

PS: RomanHume don't even think about abandoning us!
 
Last edited:

TheDevian

Svengali Productions
Game Developer
Mar 8, 2018
13,802
32,431
I am going to say, if you are having trouble rendering characters and backgrounds at the same time, then switching to Gen9 is not the way to go. Composited images look bad, and there are not the resources for Gen9 yet. I really recommend against it.
Besides, changing the models in the middle of the game is never a good plan.

Best of luck.
 

dontcarewhateverno

Engaged Member
Jan 25, 2021
2,025
4,988
  • The hair color now feels too bold; the lighter pink almost conveys insecurity, whereas the newer shade feels rebellious instead. Maybe it's not the shade but the style itself (like the braid)? Not sure.
  • I think I prefer the earlier breast shape, although I don't care all that much. It's just a personal preference, especially since they aren't all that different.
I could agree with both of these. Also agree that the slight skin-tone change may affect a difference, but that's just because I miss the tan-lines. :D
 
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4.40 star(s) 78 Votes