Thank you for the insight. I think we are on the same page. I never liked the "magical transformation" or the transformation just because someone told you to. I wanted there to be some kind of resistance or consequence of not going along with the program. That is taking me longer to get across though I am afraid. Anyway thank you for taking a look, I hope that I can continue the story to your liking.For me personally it's the sissification/feminization elements, there are only a few 3D games that get this right. Usually it's all done very fast so really glad you have decided to slow it down and make it last longer. I know a slow transformation isn't for everybody but hey if we all liked the same things the world would be a dull place
- Thread starter Ricktor
- Start date
Not at this time. This is something I really wish I would have done in the beginning. I'm trying to find a way to do it now without changing 1000's of lines. Yeah, I grew to hate the name myself.
- Dec 27, 2018
- 105
- 180
You tell the story you want to tell! Dont listen to any of us. Right now youve completely nailed the feel of a solid fd game/novel. Youve also got a magnificent eye for details in terms of outfits and character personality transitions. Seeing the main protagonist's fiance moving slowly from happy go lucky to concerned, to completely in control (the pool scene where she gets under the butlers skin was awesome. It really showed a completely different side of the character through.. well, your visual choices and framing). Im so excited to see the next scene.
Honestly, me telling you what i want spoils the fun (and would diminish your efforts). Imagine telling darktoz to design by committee! We'd all hate the game. What sets his world apart is that its ultimately his twisted vision and his world. If it was built on my input it would be far less entertaining.
For a first crack at this, you're doing wonderfully well. Keep at it.
ETA: I think you're specifically asking if 'too much monologuing will pull you out of the storyline'? Nah... there was a fair bit with the vampire captive. I can promise, i sort of brushed over it when there wasnt any fun action going on (though, to be fair, you made sure to throw in some kind of random tease moment during the dialogues, and honestly, thats all you really need to do if you want my lizard brain to slow down on the mouse clicking). I got the general gist (he's a fluffy vampire, he has a history with the nana succubus, he seemed sweet, and is the path out of the sub route for the player).
Obviously, it can go a bit far. Japanese novel games are NOTORIOUS for this (4,000,000 lines of text, then a background change, then another 4,000,000 lines of text and then another background change). As long as you keep the eye candy entertaining and moving, it'll never really be that annoying (if you just want to get to the good stuff). So again, you tell the story you want to tell. Ive loved it so far.
Honestly, me telling you what i want spoils the fun (and would diminish your efforts). Imagine telling darktoz to design by committee! We'd all hate the game. What sets his world apart is that its ultimately his twisted vision and his world. If it was built on my input it would be far less entertaining.
For a first crack at this, you're doing wonderfully well. Keep at it.
ETA: I think you're specifically asking if 'too much monologuing will pull you out of the storyline'? Nah... there was a fair bit with the vampire captive. I can promise, i sort of brushed over it when there wasnt any fun action going on (though, to be fair, you made sure to throw in some kind of random tease moment during the dialogues, and honestly, thats all you really need to do if you want my lizard brain to slow down on the mouse clicking). I got the general gist (he's a fluffy vampire, he has a history with the nana succubus, he seemed sweet, and is the path out of the sub route for the player).
Obviously, it can go a bit far. Japanese novel games are NOTORIOUS for this (4,000,000 lines of text, then a background change, then another 4,000,000 lines of text and then another background change). As long as you keep the eye candy entertaining and moving, it'll never really be that annoying (if you just want to get to the good stuff). So again, you tell the story you want to tell. Ive loved it so far.
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- Dec 27, 2018
- 105
- 180
ETA2: Just saw your developer's note:
Second: You have the motivations of the various characters outlined? You know what they all want? Do they have flaws that can be preyed upon. I mean mr OP (should be clear, i mean main protagonist not op of this thread), was pretty easy to seduce and boss around for someone who thought he was in the drivers seat of his relationship.
Third: Where are you putting your player choices, and how do they have consequence (i'll have to explain this), but if you want to skip the description, just play "Being a Dik" and see someone in complete mastery of this.
Lets take the Danni scene i earlier objected to (where you punch her at the pool).
Right now scene goes from bedroom, teasing and mischief into a blowjob. At no point does the player get to intervene. He is going to completely accept the blowjob; he is going to betray his fiance whom he is ALLEGEDLY in love with... (thats all it took! some mild teasing!??!)
Imagine instead if danni did almost the same things, but you had a few key points in the build up where you could back out through a player choice.
Now me as a pervert wants to see the renders. But me as a gamer wants to act in adherence to how id try and behave with the person im in love with.
But you have this narrative beat you need to hit. The MP needs to be locked up for something... Well now we have to be creative. I mean, if the player told danni to back off and she still kept coming, then perhaps by accident he tries to wriggle out and she falls (then makes up an abuse story). Perhaps he does sock her in the face. Perhaps, worst of all, she watches the op go and we have a scene where she fabricates the story to one of her friends (you've already shown many times that she is super manipulative with cut aways). Well now, poor MP (and player) is an innocent sweetheart (just trying to keep his shit together in this world of lunacy), yet is condemned as an absolute monster and has no idea what he's done and why its happening (or how to defend himself).
And this really impacts into the choice you'll end up making on which route to go in... do you as a player want justice, revenge on this entire family? (bite route). Or do you just think 'it's a complete misunderstanding! Im sure it will all be ironed out eventually!' (sub route). Or is your entire goal to prove to your fiance that you're innocent, that you'd never betray her, and you're being set up by the very people currently showering her with praise? How to do that? You could destroy them from the outside (take the bite), or from the inside (let them play their games). Ooof! so many story threads spilling from the sky!
Now lets go back to that choice... what if you took the blowjob. What if danni dropped her pants to reveal her dick and expected reciprocation and he told her 'fuck no'? What if perhaps she then threatened to blackmail MP by telling his fiance how he came onto her, how he kept trying to fuck her. How she didnt want to betray her sister and her family? Well, now, for pure anger related reasons and not just 'oh no! am i ghey?!??!' reasons he feels he has cause to throw that punch. He still thinks he's in control of the situation... nothing immediately changes, until it does. But... he did kind of betray his fiance... he did kind of throw that punch in anger. He did sort of end up there by his (the players) choices. But now that decision again carries a different weight in chapter 4 (is it?).
Is he going to trust these assholes for justice and equity? Rape? I only punched her. She was blackmailing me. And this psycho with her torture implements... and wheres my fiance? I saw she was changing. Becoming one of them... (your story beats). FUCK THESE ASSHOLES!!! Or does he think if he plays along, perhaps he can expose danni and the whole lying shit show (sub route - even though hes a lying, manipulative, mendacious asshole on an objectively moral level).
Whatever path. Whatever story, with just a couple of extra scenes and some well placed player choices (whether i call danni a he or a she seems to just be a choice for the sake of it, for example), you put the agency in the player's hands (superficially). You can still push the same narrative, but now its got some agency and teeth to it.
I hope that helps. Choose the points where decisions have consequences. Make those consequences prey on the player's... ahem... urges. Give them what they deserve.
First up, dont sweat it. No one expects Chekhov. You have your main framework? You know where the storyline is going?
Second: You have the motivations of the various characters outlined? You know what they all want? Do they have flaws that can be preyed upon. I mean mr OP (should be clear, i mean main protagonist not op of this thread), was pretty easy to seduce and boss around for someone who thought he was in the drivers seat of his relationship.
Third: Where are you putting your player choices, and how do they have consequence (i'll have to explain this), but if you want to skip the description, just play "Being a Dik" and see someone in complete mastery of this.
Lets take the Danni scene i earlier objected to (where you punch her at the pool).
Right now scene goes from bedroom, teasing and mischief into a blowjob. At no point does the player get to intervene. He is going to completely accept the blowjob; he is going to betray his fiance whom he is ALLEGEDLY in love with... (thats all it took! some mild teasing!??!)
Imagine instead if danni did almost the same things, but you had a few key points in the build up where you could back out through a player choice.
Now me as a pervert wants to see the renders. But me as a gamer wants to act in adherence to how id try and behave with the person im in love with.
But you have this narrative beat you need to hit. The MP needs to be locked up for something... Well now we have to be creative. I mean, if the player told danni to back off and she still kept coming, then perhaps by accident he tries to wriggle out and she falls (then makes up an abuse story). Perhaps he does sock her in the face. Perhaps, worst of all, she watches the op go and we have a scene where she fabricates the story to one of her friends (you've already shown many times that she is super manipulative with cut aways). Well now, poor MP (and player) is an innocent sweetheart (just trying to keep his shit together in this world of lunacy), yet is condemned as an absolute monster and has no idea what he's done and why its happening (or how to defend himself).
And this really impacts into the choice you'll end up making on which route to go in... do you as a player want justice, revenge on this entire family? (bite route). Or do you just think 'it's a complete misunderstanding! Im sure it will all be ironed out eventually!' (sub route). Or is your entire goal to prove to your fiance that you're innocent, that you'd never betray her, and you're being set up by the very people currently showering her with praise? How to do that? You could destroy them from the outside (take the bite), or from the inside (let them play their games). Ooof! so many story threads spilling from the sky!
Now lets go back to that choice... what if you took the blowjob. What if danni dropped her pants to reveal her dick and expected reciprocation and he told her 'fuck no'? What if perhaps she then threatened to blackmail MP by telling his fiance how he came onto her, how he kept trying to fuck her. How she didnt want to betray her sister and her family? Well, now, for pure anger related reasons and not just 'oh no! am i ghey?!??!' reasons he feels he has cause to throw that punch. He still thinks he's in control of the situation... nothing immediately changes, until it does. But... he did kind of betray his fiance... he did kind of throw that punch in anger. He did sort of end up there by his (the players) choices. But now that decision again carries a different weight in chapter 4 (is it?).
Is he going to trust these assholes for justice and equity? Rape? I only punched her. She was blackmailing me. And this psycho with her torture implements... and wheres my fiance? I saw she was changing. Becoming one of them... (your story beats). FUCK THESE ASSHOLES!!! Or does he think if he plays along, perhaps he can expose danni and the whole lying shit show (sub route - even though hes a lying, manipulative, mendacious asshole on an objectively moral level).
Whatever path. Whatever story, with just a couple of extra scenes and some well placed player choices (whether i call danni a he or a she seems to just be a choice for the sake of it, for example), you put the agency in the player's hands (superficially). You can still push the same narrative, but now its got some agency and teeth to it.
I hope that helps. Choose the points where decisions have consequences. Make those consequences prey on the player's... ahem... urges. Give them what they deserve.
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Wow! You have given me so much to think about. I really really appreciate the time you put into this, and the thought as well. I desperately want to make a really good game(VN), that people will really enjoy some day. I don't think there is any way to get to that point without constructive criticism like you just gave. I am going to have to go back and read my own story again, with having read all this. To get a better render, you can tweek a few settings, this is going to make me use my pea brain a little more. lol. Thanks again for your help, I really do appreciate it!ETA2: Just saw your developer's note:
First up, dont sweat it. No one expects Chekhov. You have your main framework? You know where the storyline is going?
Second: You have the motivations of the various characters outlined? You know what they all want? Do they have flaws that can be preyed upon. I mean mr OP (should be clear, i mean main protagonist not op of this thread), was pretty easy to seduce and boss around for someone who thought he was in the drivers seat of his relationship.
Third: Where are you putting your player choices, and how do they have consequence (i'll have to explain this), but if you want to skip the description, just play "Being a Dik" and see someone in complete mastery of this.
Lets take the Danni scene i earlier objected to (where you punch her at the pool).
Right now scene goes from bedroom, teasing and mischief into a blowjob. At no point does the player get to intervene. He is going to completely accept the blowjob; he is going to betray his fiance whom he is ALLEGEDLY in love with... (thats all it took! some mild teasing!??!)
Imagine instead if danni did almost the same things, but you had a few key points in the build up where you could back out through a player choice.
Now me as a pervert wants to see the renders. But me as a gamer wants to act in adherence to how id try and behave with the person im in love with.
But you have this narrative beat you need to hit. The MP needs to be locked up for something... Well now we have to be creative. I mean, if the player told danni to back off and she still kept coming, then perhaps by accident he tries to wriggle out and she falls (then makes up an abuse story). Perhaps he does sock her in the face. Perhaps, worst of all, she watches the op go and we have a scene where she fabricates the story to one of her friends (you've already shown many times that she is super manipulative with cut aways). Well now, poor MP (and player) is an innocent sweetheart (just trying to keep his shit together in this world of lunacy), yet is condemned as an absolute monster and has no idea what he's done and why its happening (or how to defend himself).
And this really impacts into the choice you'll end up making on which route to go in... do you as a player want justice, revenge on this entire family? (bite route). Or do you just think 'it's a complete misunderstanding! Im sure it will all be ironed out eventually!' (sub route). Or is your entire goal to prove to your fiance that you're innocent, that you'd never betray her, and you're being set up by the very people currently showering her with praise? How to do that? You could destroy them from the outside (take the bite), or from the inside (let them play their games). Ooof! so many story threads spilling from the sky!
Now lets go back to that choice... what if you took the blowjob. What if danni dropped her pants to reveal her dick and expected reciprocation and he told her 'fuck no'? What if perhaps she then threatened to blackmail MP by telling his fiance how he came onto her, how he kept trying to fuck her. How she didnt want to betray her sister and her family? Well, now, for pure anger related reasons and not just 'oh no! am i ghey?!??!' reasons he feels he has cause to throw that punch. He still thinks he's in control of the situation... nothing immediately changes, until it does. But... he did kind of betray his fiance... he did kind of throw that punch in anger. He did sort of end up there by his (the players) choices. But now that decision again carries a different weight in chapter 4 (is it?).
Is he going to trust these assholes for justice and equity? Rape? I only punched her. She was blackmailing me. And this psycho with her torture implements... and wheres my fiance? I saw she was changing. Becoming one of them... (your story beats). FUCK THESE ASSHOLES!!! Or does he think if he plays along, perhaps he can expose danni and the whole lying shit show (sub route - even though hes a lying, manipulative, mendacious asshole on an objectively moral level).
Whatever path. Whatever story, with just a couple of extra scenes and some well placed player choices (whether i call danni a he or a she seems to just be a choice for the sake of it, for example), you put the agency in the player's hands (superficially). You can still push the same narrative, but now its got some agency and teeth to it.
I hope that helps. Choose the points where decisions have consequences. Make those consequences prey on the player's... ahem... urges. Give them what they deserve.
- Dec 10, 2019
- 147
- 60
Ah, I see. I admit, I don't mind VN format but the most important aspect for me, are moral decisions through temptation with lust, life and death hanging in the balance (for more immersion/tension). So if this one is more on the "tranquil" side, then it's indeed not for me. Still, I wish all the best to the maker(s) of this game.
And to you Rickor, I thank you for your answer. Thank you, I am glad you are finding something of value. I am actually having a lot of fun with it. I am totally out of my element from what I do for a living, but I am learning every day. The kind people here on this site have been extremely helpful. Everyone has been helpful and encouraging, and have gone out of their way to guide me along.
1) It would be great if there was a choice (at the request of the player!) - so that Gwendolyn does not have a relationship with Jeoffrey. (on any of the MC routes - (both on the dom route and on the sub route)).
For example, this can be done through the dialogue between Gwendolyn and Jeoffrey (for example, in a dialogue, Gwendolyn will say that she does not want any relationship with Jeoffrey, or vice versa - wants ). (player chooses option)
2) It would be great if the MC had the opportunity to choose with whom he can have some kind of relationship (for example, with Elizabeth, Fransesca ...).
3) It would be great if MC could choose allies (Whose side he was)
For example, this can be done through the dialogue between Gwendolyn and Jeoffrey (for example, in a dialogue, Gwendolyn will say that she does not want any relationship with Jeoffrey, or vice versa - wants ). (player chooses option)
2) It would be great if the MC had the opportunity to choose with whom he can have some kind of relationship (for example, with Elizabeth, Fransesca ...).
3) It would be great if MC could choose allies (Whose side he was)
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Thanks for the inspiration. Yes I am still working on this. I will not quit until I am done. Its kinda a personal problem I have with quitting. Anyway, because I started not knowing a thing, I really really wish I could just toss it and start over, but I can't. I need to finish this so I can learn from it. I know it seems like I go in spurts when I am quiet, but that is because I am constantly rendering, and that is about all I can do. It takes most of my PC time up. I am very close with Chapt.6. Dominant side is done, and probably 75% of the transformation path. This update is at about 250 renders right now, and I am sure I am going to need to go well over the 300 mark. And when I say done, I just mean done for this update, not the whole story.
Very sorry I did not respond...usually I get a message that the thread had a post, but I must have missed it. All of your suggestions are very good one's. These are the things I would like to see in a game as well. My problem is, I am not very familiar with writing code, or any type of programing for that matter. I am trying to learn as fast as I can, but it is a challenge to be sure. I am trying to keep it as simple as possible so I can get through it to the end. This is why I am just calling this a demo, it really doesn't have all the buzzers and bells that I wish I knew how to do. My goal is to learn as much as possible with this demo, then learn some more, and then try to put something out there that is more respectable in terms of a good game, or VN. I dove in before I knew how to swim, now I'm just doing the doggy paddle trying to get to shore.
Sorry for the late response. Trying like hell to get the Chapt. 6 out, but it keeps going and going. I will definitely throw some preview pics. up. I will put a few from both major paths so they might look a little different. Its probably going to be later today though.Sweet, looking forward to it! Any chance of a preview image or two?
Sorry guys, I just updated Daz, Windows, and a new Nvidia driver, and they are not being nice. Having all kinds of problems with Daz studio now. Anyway here are the pics I promised.
Looking good, thanks for the pics and hopefully the troubles get resolved for you soon. Looking forward to the update!