VN Ren'Py Eruption Imminent [v0.5.1] [MorriganRae]

[Alucard421]

You really need to look under the hood to understand that what you assume the game is doing with the route split isn't really happening, at least right now.

The game is still going through much of the same events with the same outcomes for every route, the difference is that a great deal of things that could be decided on the moment, based on player preference, are instead being pre-assigned to a mostly unrelated choice you made hours ago.

Even the way the writing is organized is still much the same as before the route-split, it has a mainline script that is followed by every route and then the unique bits are stitched in with a modular approach. The content being produced is still the same and even the way it is organized is still the same, the only thing that changed is how obnoxious it is to access it.

No one is asking to be able to make drastic switches in attitude "with the same character at a drop of the hat". If you decide to defy Natasha she should be your enemy for the rest of the game, if you submit to her then Ashe should fall into her grasp. But the choice of how Ashe tries to deal with Natasha shouldn't decide how the storyline with Evelyn will go, or if the player should get a buttjob or a footjob from Evelyn, or if she should orgasm only once or multiple times when having sex with Fiona. That's pointlessly restrictive on very unrelated things.

I agree with your description of the Lexi cuckroute beach scene, but that one is fine because Lexi and Natasha always had their contents linked and mutually exclusive (you could only see Lexi naked in the gym if you refused to touch Natasha's dick), so it is fine that the choice with Natasha impacts Lexi's content. But even in your example, in the Siren route you can choose to not pay much attention to Lexi and cut things short, so it is not like even the Siren route is enforcing that Ashe and Lexi need to hit it off (you can stop before things get romantic, you can stop only at the kissing, or you can go all the way to anal sex). How would it be "out of character" for an Ashe that chose to pass on Lexi to have the option of peeking on her going with the bartender instead?

I don't have the time to do free work for other people for at least a few weeks, but I'm not kidding that it would not be difficult to mod out the route-split and replace the checks for it with either menu choices or more sensible checks to previous choices and the cohesiveness of the current story wouldn't be negatively impacted at all.

But if you want an example that's already in the game, take Kate's scene, the one where she drops the spoon under the table. That scene takes place after the route-split and isn't impacted by it at all. The player gets a perfectly free choice to either let Kate go under the table to blow them, or go under the table themselves to eat her out, or refuse and cut out the sexy content. Did anyone feel like the way that scene was handled was out of place in the game? Or that it would be improved by taking your immediate choice away and decide instead based on your choice to deal with Natasha, which is a completely unrelated plotline?

Damn dude you are killing it. Like every point you are making is so true. Like why Fiona and Ashe get multiple scenes only in Kitten route and not in Siren route? What is the logic behind it? It made me flabbergasted today. And now I am feeling even pissed off that a romantic scene that should have equal scenes irrespective of the route is now limited to two scenes for one route and 5 scenes for other route. It just suggests that Dev themselves prefer one route and the other route is literal scraps being thrown to those who want Ashe to be more confident. Like how is giving blowjob to Fiona or spoon fuck with Fiona a submissive scene. There is nothing Dom or Sub about these scene. Its simply a romantic scene.

 

[InkAndSaliva]

You really need to look under the hood to understand that what you assume the game is doing with the route split isn't really happening, at least right now.

Yes, because this is the first update following the split, hence why I said I liked it if things continued to become more distinct.

No one is asking to be able to make drastic switches in attitude "with the same character at a drop of the hat". If you decide to defy Natasha she should be your enemy for the rest of the game, if you submit to her then Ashe should fall into her grasp. But the choice of how Ashe tries to deal with Natasha shouldn't decide how the storyline with Evelyn will go, or if the player should get a buttjob or a footjob from Evelyn, or if she should orgasm only once or multiple times when having sex with Fiona. That's pointlessly restrictive on very unrelated things.

This is what I'm talking about with player preference vs. player intent. Morrigan is gating these content into different routes to further define Ashe as a character and build up her changes and her dynamic with the LIs. The dynamic Ashe has with her mother when getting the buttjob is different from the footjob and it defines what kind of character she is and what kind of relationship they will develop. It's fine to prefer freeform content where you can choose in the moment, but it leads to vaguer, inconsistent main characters.

How would it be "out of character" for an Ashe that chose to pass on Lexi to have the option of peeking on her going with the bartender instead?

Because a voyeuristic cuck who gets off on watching Lexi blow a bartender is different than the kind of character Ashe is becoming on the siren route.

I don't have the time to do free work for other people for at least a few weeks, but I'm not kidding that it would not be difficult to mod out the route-split and replace the checks for it with either menu choices or more sensible checks to previous choices and the cohesiveness of the current story wouldn't be negatively impacted at all.

In this update? Sure. But you have no idea how it will affect the cohesiveness of the future story updates and relationship development. Once again, this goes back to questions of future dev time complications and the developer's plans and intent.

 

[doovel]

Penile analysis. . I can't believe a Rapist is being utilized as the driving point of all major plot points of this story.

Sometimes I think how much if stereotypes are not followed, we could have different stories. hell sometimes I think how Natasha instead of being a corrupt rapist cop, would have been righteous cop. And Ashe could have fallen in love with her gradually. Natasha would have advised her not to do drugs, be a good support towards her and when a relationship would have finally been between them, Natasha would have pitched the idea of Loving submission and domination between them.

A consensual Sub Dom relationship might have grown, hell they could have pursued Polygamous relationship with other LIs or even an open relationship. Natasha could have been a greater support in Ashe's pursuit of resolving her trauma. Instead we got the stereotypical built character with big cock who is a cop being a rapist. Just like every Black character in any porn game exist for the sole purpose cucking the protagonist, but they never are protagonist themselves, and they never actually fall in love with the the lady because they only exist to seduce and fuck and cuck the other dude.

She could've also turned into a mentor for Siren Ashe. Instead she's just truly a piece of shit, no two ways about it. Unfortunate.

On the black characters cucking, that seems to be the case here as well. All the cuckers on the CQ route this episode were taller, more muscular and darker/black skinned and have way bigger dongs.

This is the neighbor dialogue when Ashe arrives in cuck route, then second image shows Rachel being defensive.
View attachment 4182531 View attachment 4182533

Rachel is obviously blowing Natasha in the phone scene and the neighbour indeed makes clear they have been fucking. Don't understand why people are pretending otherwise after reading the scripts you posted.

 

[Alucard421]

You know after reading the script from the code for the cuck path, about how Rachel gushes about the big dick of the Rapist cop, sucked her dick and had probably even sex for 150$ since the script and even the scenes confirm so, I am fully convinced Rachel is not a good person. And she actually enjoys cucking Ashe. Like when she used Ashe as third wheel when she and Fiona were dating. Now this. Rachel is not a good person. And she fucking gaslit Ashe for a fucking year and left Ashe with irreparable trauma that forced her to do drugs. I am now fully convinced that Rachel is a manipulative gaslighting girl.

 

[Ciaran8023]

You know after reading the script from the code for the cuck path, about how Rachel gushes about the big dick of the Rapist cop, sucked her dick and had probably even sex for 150$ since the script and even the scenes confirm so, I am fully convinced Rachel is not a good person. And she actually enjoys cucking Ashe. Like when she used Ashe as third wheel when she and Fiona were dating. Now this. Rachel is not a good person. And she fucking gaslit Ashe for a fucking year and left Ashe with irreparable trauma that forced her to do drugs. I am now fully convinced that Rachel is a manipulative gaslighting girl.

This will likely not be a popular opinion with some of the people in here, but yeah, I've always kind of felt like Rachel is just a shit individual from the get-go.
Of course, to each their own, people are more than welcome to like Rachel but from my personal perspective, it's very hard for me to understand.

Essentially it all comes back to a complete lack of respect for her sister, where she's using Ashe as a sort of outlet for her fucked up desires without actually caring about consent or the feelings of her sister at all. It's peak selfishness and she doesn't even think twice about it, because she seemingly doesn't think that there's anything wrong with it.

EDIT- Who knows, it might be her response to "distance" herself from Ashe after the initial incident between the two of them, but that kind of just makes her even worse of a human.

 

[Alucard421]

She could've also turned into a mentor for Siren Ashe. Instead she's just truly a piece of shit, no two ways about it. Unfortunate.

On the black characters cucking, that seems to be the case here as well. All the cuckers on the CQ route this episode were taller, more muscular and darker/black skinned and have way bigger dongs.


Rachel is obviously blowing Natasha in the phone scene and the neighbour indeed makes clear they have been fucking. Don't understand why people are pretending otherwise after reading the scripts you posted.

Don't you know, built people with big dongs and darker skin are either rapist assholes or love cucking. They can't be loving people. they don't have compassion, empathy and are incapable of loving someone wholeheartedly.

I want to see one game where a black guy is not a cucker, is a protagonist, is a loving person and not a brutish rapist. I am always reminded of Terry Jeffords and how he is the sweetest, kindest person on Brooklyn 99 and sometimes hope a character like him is created in porn games. A black character with a genuinely loving and kind heart and actually charismatic and charming instead of rapist asshole who thinks his big cock is the ultimate cucking device.

 

[Alucard421]

This will likely not be a popular opinion with some of the people in here, but yeah, I've always kind of felt like Rachel is just a shit individual from the get-go.
Of course, to each their own, people are more than welcome to like Rachel but from my personal perspective, it's very hard for me to understand.

Essentially it all comes back to a complete lack of respect for her sister, where she's using Ashe as a sort of outlet for her fucked up desires without actually caring about consent or the feelings of her sister at all. It's peak selfishness and she doesn't even think twice about it, because she seemingly doesn't think that there's anything wrong with it.

Yeah I saw the thread of your argument regarding Rachel and Ashe's trauma and your justifying points as to why Rachel is not a good person.

 

[Alucard421]

This will likely not be a popular opinion with some of the people in here, but yeah, I've always kind of felt like Rachel is just a shit individual from the get-go.
Of course, to each their own, people are more than welcome to like Rachel but from my personal perspective, it's very hard for me to understand.

Essentially it all comes back to a complete lack of respect for her sister, where she's using Ashe as a sort of outlet for her fucked up desires without actually caring about consent or the feelings of her sister at all. It's peak selfishness and she doesn't even think twice about it, because she seemingly doesn't think that there's anything wrong with it.

EDIT- Who knows, it might be her response to "distance" herself from Ashe after the initial incident between the two of them, but that kind of just makes her even worse of a human.

God after knowing that in Cuck path Rachel has fucked the Rapist Cop who probably would have raped Ashe, and the ending of the cuckquean route would be Ashe psyche completely getting destroyed because her own sister betrayed her for satisfying her sexual desires and forcing Ashe to be a part of it. I, I really feel sorry for Ashe. As if her own unresolved trauma regarding the death of her mother Jane wasn't enough, the Dev will just leave her at an even worse trauma than ever before, my heart goes out to Ashe and well we know the Dev's Author Pet now don't we.

 

[doovel]

Yeah, just to make my position clear, I'm not demanding that the dev change the story to appeal to one demographic or another, I just think the tri-route hard split is a terrible way of making the player interact with the content that's already in the game. If the dev wanted to write 3 routes with very different stories in a way that would be impossible to keep them all internally cohesive, then I could understand the design choice even if I don't like it. But all 3 routes are still going through the same events and story beats so there's no real improvement to the quality by splitting it, and instead it might be watering down certain scenes by ripping out important bits of it and making them route-exclusive just for the sake of having things you can say are exclusive to one route or another.

There is no reason why the player's decision in how they want to deal with the Natasha + Rachel situation should stretch to everything else in the game, with completely different characters and situations.

There is no reason to have a hard split between "Siren" and "Kitten" because even if you go down the "Kitten" route you can still refuse Natasha and get away by literally kicking her in the dick, so it is not like the "Kitten" route means Ashe will always submit, so why make the arbitrary separation from so many other "Siren" actions?

The "Cuckqueen" route is a bit more divisive because some people feel more strongly about NTR type of content, but making that content a "route" is just so much worse than the old opt-in/opt-out system the game had. The way it works out now is terrible.

First, because anyone that is okay with dipping their toes in that kind of content is fucked now because it is an all-or-nothing deal. Wanted to see funny harmless scenes like walking in with Fiona on a naked Evelyn? Sorry that's cuckroute exclusive, if you wanna see it you need to accept the package deal of being kicked out from potential romantic developments with most of the cast (at the very least missing romantic content with Evelyn, Lexi, and Zoey) and that your route will have much stronger NTR content like whatever is going on between Natasha and Rachel and also Evelyn getting railed by Stella who is a bit of a pig (and maybe drugged her).

(Also why is Fiona seeing Evelyn naked even a "cuck" content exclusive? Wow your best friend accidentally saw your single mom naked for a couple of seconds, you probably creampied her married mom in a dressing room, don't be such a little baby about it.)

Second, because a lot of good content is getting cut out from other routes just because they vaguely "fit" better in the cuck route. I think I made my point with the Fiona + Evelyn scene, but there's no reason why a drunk Lexi shouldn't go have fun with the bartender IF Ashe wasn't giving her any attention, or why Zoey couldn't sleep around with other people, specially IF the player passes on the videocall scene with her. As long as they are optional both to happen and to view, what's the harm in having them accessible on the "Siren" or "Kitten" routes? It would still be up to the player's choice.

Summarizing, the central issue is that picking a route feels less about what you are gaining from it and more about what you are losing if you don't pick it, which makes every choice just feel kinda bad:
-Not picking "Siren" feels like it means giving up on Ashe ever growing a spine
-Not picking "Kitten" feels like missing out on Ashe's more natural initial characterization and better written scenes
-Not picking "Cuckqueen" feels like taking out a lot of organic worldbuilding for a sterile world where nothing happens if the MC isn't directly involved

That is the best goddamn reply on the issue with three routes strictness. I was flabbergasted to know that Fiona blowjob scene is missing from Siren route, Fiona spooning scene is missing from Siren route, Ashe swallowing Fiona's cum or letting Fiona bukkake her scene is absent from Siren path. All these are exclusive to Kitten or maybe cuckquean path. Is getting spoon fucked by your best friend you are falling in love with not worthy of a confident Ashe or her sucking Fiona off? These could have been a part of any path because these should be scenes between Fiona and Ashe and not fully restricted by particular paths. A loving sex scene is not determined by Dom path or sub path. I am feeling flabbergasted with this knowledge.

Either the dev put the split in too soon, or they felt they had to because of the CQ path? Kitten and Siren overlap so much and differ on these weird little things instead of being truly distinct from one another.

The Lexi scene is odd though, it has no Kitten version. But the CQ Lexi version doesn't feel like the same character as the Siren Lexi version you get. In one she's a slut for big cock for the big cock and in the other she's a slut for your not-as-big cock, but because she's crushing on you hard. I don't think they gel well as they are currently in the game. That's not to say it couldn't happen. To address manscout

The dev also seems to draw a weird distinction between top/dom and sub/bot, on one hand seeming to equate them. But on the other pretending there is no overlap.

Made clear by making Lexi Siren exclusive and Fiona slamming it into your pussy if you at one point decided to focus on her instead of the porn on screen.

Personally I'm really excited about the route split, as long as the Ashe in each of them continues to grow more distinct over time. Siren Ashe growing more confident, Kitten Ashe growing more subservient and eager to please, and Cuck Ashe growing more pathetic and depraved. I think we're not doing the typical opt-in system because each character's route will also grow more distinct as time passes, and if the develeoper wants to build a consistent and engaging story for these relationships, your character can't be jumping between dom, sub, and cuck with the same character at a drop of the hat.

I enjoy the build up and teasing that's occurring on the cuck route, and it's a pretty common and necessary part of an NTR story for the cuck to start of oblivious and have the player slowly teased as things either occur offscreen, or the other characters begin flirting in front of you. Ignoring Lexi to text Rachel is pretty clearly building up Ashe inadvertently pushing her towards Natasha with her clinginess and jealousy, so that's a necessary scene for future Rachel interactions (like when Ashe picks her up in this same episode and Rachel is pretty clearly growing annoyed with her), and it would be ooc for an Ashe that you want to be more dominant on the Siren route (who wouldn't share Rachel with Nat or ignore Lexi and let her be taken by another).

I know people like more freedom and flexibility in their games, but sometimes you need to judge a game by what it's attempting to be and not what you want it to be. The extra work and dev time for accounting for any combination of dom, sub, and cuck sex scenes, and wrangling them into a consistent and cohesive story and romance arc is just not a casual request.

We are judging by what it's attempting though, just because it's attempting doesn't mean it's succeeding. What it's attempting might not even work well, or could literally be the best way. Right now we don't know what the future holds. We can only judge by what we've got.

So far the route "splits", but not truly. It isn't like the dev is writing completely different scenes for all the scenes in the game. There are several places the dev could have done that. Like with the Vanessa date and the Blackmail scene. Instead we got kitten + siren/cq flavour choices

You really need to look under the hood to understand that what you assume the game is doing with the route split isn't really happening, at least right now.

The game is still going through much of the same events with the same outcomes for every route, the difference is that a great deal of things that could be decided on the moment, based on player preference, are instead being pre-assigned to a mostly unrelated choice you made hours ago.

Even the way the writing is organized is still much the same as before the route-split, it has a mainline script that is followed by every route and then the unique bits are stitched in with a modular approach. The content being produced is still the same and even the way it is organized is still the same, the only thing that changed is how obnoxious it is to access it.

No one is asking to be able to make drastic switches in attitude "with the same character at a drop of the hat". If you decide to defy Natasha she should be your enemy for the rest of the game, if you submit to her then Ashe should fall into her grasp. But the choice of how Ashe tries to deal with Natasha shouldn't decide how the storyline with Evelyn will go, or if the player should get a buttjob or a footjob from Evelyn, or if she should orgasm only once or multiple times when having sex with Fiona. That's pointlessly restrictive on very unrelated things.

I agree with your description of the Lexi cuckroute beach scene, but that one is fine because Lexi and Natasha always had their contents linked and mutually exclusive (you could only see Lexi naked in the gym if you refused to touch Natasha's dick), so it is fine that the choice with Natasha impacts Lexi's content. But even in your example, in the Siren route you can choose to not pay much attention to Lexi and cut things short, so it is not like even the Siren route is enforcing that Ashe and Lexi need to hit it off (you can stop before things get romantic, you can stop only at the kissing, or you can go all the way to anal sex). How would it be "out of character" for an Ashe that chose to pass on Lexi to have the option of peeking on her going with the bartender instead?

I don't have the time to do free work for other people for at least a few weeks, but I'm not kidding that it would not be difficult to mod out the route-split and replace the checks for it with either menu choices or more sensible checks to previous choices and the cohesiveness of the current story wouldn't be negatively impacted at all.

But if you want an example that's already in the game, take Kate's scene, the one where she drops the spoon under the table. That scene takes place after the route-split and isn't impacted by it at all. The player gets a perfectly free choice to either let Kate go under the table to blow them, or go under the table themselves to eat her out, or refuse and cut out the sexy content. Did anyone feel like the way that scene was handled was out of place in the game? Or that it would be improved by taking your immediate choice away and decide instead based on your choice to deal with Natasha, which is a completely unrelated plotline?

It has those checks right now anyway. The only true route checks are whether to kick of the route exclusive scene or not. Certain dialogue and choices are hidden behind the check for "siren" or "cuck" in the Lexi date. And in the Vanessa date it has that for "siren" as well. The rest of the content is the same.

On the Kate bit, it's odd that "siren" doesn't make her go under the table and "kitten" goes under the table herself. Especially when you consider the choice is removed from all the other scenes. Where it's decided for you.

A mod to show the difference might actually be a great idea. We could change significant parts about the blackmail as well. Like giving the player the choice to not put it in. Interfere with the influencer on the Vanessa date, or try to get a refund from the usher. Things of that nature. I haven't done any Ren'py coding, but if you decide to do it and want help with the script/ideas please let me know. I'd be delighted to assist.

Damn dude you are killing it. Like every point you are making is so true. Like why Fiona and Ashe get multiple scenes only in Kitten route and not in Siren route? What is the logic behind it? It made me flabbergasted today. And now I am feeling even pissed off that a romantic scene that should have equal scenes irrespective of the route is now limited to two scenes for one route and 5 scenes for other route. It just suggests that Dev themselves prefer one route and the other route is literal scraps being thrown to those who want Ashe to be more confident. Like how is giving blowjob to Fiona or spoon fuck with Fiona a submissive scene. There is nothing Dom or Sub about these scene. Its simply a romantic scene.

The distinction is odd, as the scene indeed would seem more romantic than top/bot or dom/sub if it was portrayed as the same for Siren and Kitten. Where the player makes the choices, that way the split and meaningful distinction could happen later down the Fiona Rom path

Yes, because this is the first update following the split, hence why I said I liked it if things continued to become more distinct.

This is what I'm talking about with player preference vs. player intent. Morrigan is gating these content into different routes to further define Ashe as a character and build up her changes and her dynamic with the LIs. The dynamic Ashe has with her mother when getting the buttjob is different from the footjob and it defines what kind of character she is and what kind of relationship they will develop. It's fine to prefer freeform content where you can choose in the moment, but it leads to vaguer, inconsistent main characters.

Because a voyeuristic cuck who gets off on watching Lexi blow a bartender is different than the kind of character Ashe is becoming on the siren route.

In this update? Sure. But you have no idea how it will affect the cohesiveness of the future story updates and relationship development. Once again, this goes back to questions of future dev time complications and the developer's plans and intent.

That is what we're arguing about yes. But currently we have a route/path split, that isn't truly split. So that begs the question, why split it at all or why did you make the split happen in episode 4. It could have been done with dom points, allowing the dev to have more flexibility to decide when and how to split later.

 

[doovel]

Don't you know, built people with big dongs and darker skin are either rapist assholes or love cucking. They can't be loving people. they don't have compassion, empathy and are incapable of loving someone wholeheartedly.

I want to see one game where a black guy is not a cucker, is a protagonist, is a loving person and not a brutish rapist. I am always reminded of Terry Jeffords and how he is the sweetest, kindest person on Brooklyn 99 and sometimes hope a character like him is created in porn games. A black character with a genuinely loving and kind heart and actually charismatic and charming instead of rapist asshole who thinks his big cock is the ultimate cucking device.

Yeah that's the drawback with fetishes, especially around race. It gets stupid quickly. (Also the assumption black men all have big cocks, I imagine your life as a black man with an average sized dick is harsh too)

Also 9-9!

 

[Alucard421]

Yeah that's the drawback with fetishes, especially around race. It gets stupid quickly. (Also the assumption black men all have big cocks, I imagine your life as a black man with an average sized dick is harsh too)

Also 9-9!

ha ha I am not a black man. I am just tired of this stupid fetish, this offensive stereotype and not an actual good depiction of a black person in porn games. Like I want to see an interracial relationship where its not a fetish but two people actually falling in love. Like that of Miles Morales and Gwen Stacy, like that of Captain Raymond Holt and Kevin Cozner.

Also

 

[manscout]

This is what I'm talking about with player preference vs. player intent. Morrigan is gating these content into different routes to further define Ashe as a character and build up her changes and her dynamic with the LIs. The dynamic Ashe has with her mother when getting the buttjob is different from the footjob and it defines what kind of character she is and what kind of relationship they will develop. It's fine to prefer freeform content where you can choose in the moment, but it leads to vaguer, inconsistent main characters.

The problem here is cause and consequence. Ashe's character is not getting defined by the different dynamics of the scenes she's going through as the story progresses, but instead the scenes she's going through are predefined by an arbitrary choice of what character she must be, with no room for organic growth and making further player input feel devoid of meaning.

For example, what is the point of choosing between sending the blackmailer a real or a fake picture of Ashe wearing the buttplug? If it impacts the story later on then there was a "right" choice and a "wrong" choice, regardless of what Ashe's character is, and if it doesn't affect the story then it is a pointless choice because it doesn't even say anything about Ashe's character since it has already been decided she is either "siren", "kitten", or "cuckqueen" and you can't change that no matter what you do.

Because a voyeuristic cuck who gets off on watching Lexi blow a bartender is different than the kind of character Ashe is becoming on the siren route.

I didn't say that Ashe needs to get all flustered and start getting off on Lexi blowing the bartender like a voyeuristic cuck, I just said it should be possible for that scene to appear in a "siren" route where Ashe didn't care about pursuing Lexi at all. It would be there for the player's benefit and "siren" Ashe's reaction could have been tempered to something like "yo damnnnnnnn" and then moving on, if her attitude for the rest of the playthrough so far had been generally dominant and unfazed by "cuck" narratives.

In this update? Sure. But you have no idea how it will affect the cohesiveness of the future story updates and relationship development. Once again, this goes back to questions of future dev time complications and the developer's plans and intent.

Then maybe the route split would have been better if saved for when the dev is ready to make such drastic separation between the routes? It certainly wasn't necessary for this last update and only made somethings worse.

I said from the start that I'm okay with a route separation if it leads to very different content that cannot coexist in the same playthrough, I think we agree on this.

But I can only speak from what I see, and looking at how the routes compare and how the game is structured, the route-split has not improved anything about the game's design so far. You are speaking from a supposed intent from the dev of leading the story into very different directions that cannot be made cohesive even when dealing with different characters and different relationships, but that isn't apparent at all in this last update, and it was a full release made after the dev had already established the route-split choice.

It might have been just a poorly thought out design choice, and it is still not too late to change back from it, so better to criticize it now than after several updates have been built on top of it.

 

[Alucard421]

The problem here is cause and consequence. Ashe's character is not getting defined by the different dynamics of the scenes she's going through as the story progresses, but instead the scenes she's going through are predefined by an arbitrary choice of what character she must be, with no room for organic growth and making further player input feel devoid of meaning.

For example, what is the point of choosing between sending the blackmailer a real or a fake picture of Ashe wearing the buttplug? If it impacts the story later on then there was a "right" choice and a "wrong" choice, regardless of what Ashe's character is, and if it doesn't affect the story then it is a pointless choice because it doesn't even say anything about Ashe's character since it has already been decided she is either "siren", "kitten", or "cuckqueen" and you can't change that no matter what you do.

I didn't say that Ashe needs to get all flustered and start getting off on Lexi blowing the bartender like a voyeuristic cuck, I just said it should be possible for that scene to appear in a "siren" route where Ashe didn't care about pursuing Lexi at all. It would be there for the player's benefit and "siren" Ashe's reaction could have been tempered to something like "yo damnnnnnnn" and then moving on, if her attitude for the rest of the playthrough so far had been generally dominant and unfazed by "cuck" narratives.

Then maybe the route split would have been better if saved for when the dev is ready to make such drastic separation between the routes? It certainly wasn't necessary for this last update and only made somethings worse.

I said from the start that I'm okay with a route separation if it leads to very different content that cannot coexist in the same playthrough, I think we agree on this.

But I can only speak from what I see, and looking at how the routes compare and how the game is structured, the route-split has not improved anything about the game's design so far. You are speaking from a supposed intent from the dev of leading the story into very different directions that cannot be made cohesive even when dealing with different characters and different relationships, but that isn't apparent at all in this last update, and it was a full release made after the dev had already established the route-split choice.

It might have been just a poorly thought out design choice, and it is still not too late to change back from it, so better to criticize it now than after several updates have been built on top of it.

The immense difference in the romantic scene between Fiona and Ashe differing hugely because of choosing one particular route is the definitive proof of how your point is super valid and making fixed routes is a mistake. Hell kicking rapist cop and running away is also a sort of defiance and sort of Siren path yet it is locked on to Kitten path only.

 

[doovel]

Yeah I saw the thread of your argument regarding Rachel and Ashe's trauma and your justifying points as to why Rachel is not a good person.

God after knowing that in Cuck path Rachel has fucked the Rapist Cop who probably would have raped Ashe, and the ending of the cuckquean route would be Ashe psyche completely getting destroyed because her own sister betrayed her for satisfying her sexual desires and forcing Ashe to be a part of it. I, I really feel sorry for Ashe. As if her own unresolved trauma regarding the death of her mother Jane wasn't enough, the Dev will just leave her at an even worse trauma than ever before, my heart goes out to Ashe and well we know the Dev's Author Pet now don't we.

Yeah after reading that, and checking in the game myself. Especially on the other paths. I've found myself concurring with him. Rachel isn't even a good person, let alone a good sister or "soulmate".

I'm really struggling to believe the dev is fully aware of the monsters they have and are creating. Like almost no one seems like a decent individual in this game so far.

ha ha I am not a black man. I am just tired of this stupid fetish, this offensive stereotype and not an actual good depiction of a black person in porn games. Like I want to see an interracial relationship where its not a fetish but two people actually falling in love. Like that of Miles Morales and Gwen Stacy, like that of Captain Raymond Holt and Kevin Cozner.

Also
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I didn’t mean your life personally, I meant it as a general statement.

 

[doovel]

The immense difference in the romantic scene between Fiona and Ashe differing hugely because of choosing one particular route is the definitive proof of how your point is super valid and making fixed routes is a mistake. Hell kicking rapist cop and running away is also a sort of defiance and sort of Siren path yet it is locked on to Kitten path only.

It’s also muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more satisfying than bloody texting her to piss off and then blocking her number.

 

[Ciaran8023]

Yeah after reading that, and checking in the game myself. Especially on the other paths. I've found myself concurring with him. Rachel isn't even a good person, let alone a good sister or "soulmate".

I'm really struggling to believe the dev is fully aware of the monsters they have and are creating. Like almost no one seems like a decent individual in this game so far.

It's nice to have some affirmation that I'm not entirely batshit insane, I've been getting alarm bells ringing for essentially the entire cast for most of the game but it's always easy to start second guessing oneself a bit when faced with a lot of opposition.
But yeah, I stand firm in that the vast majority of the characters seem to be geared towards taking what they want from Ashe instead of actually engaging in a meaningful relationship - whether friendship or romantically, outside of Fiona pretty much.

I do think that this is entirely intended by the dev, I can't imagine that they wouldn't realize what they've done, even though I've had the dev rebuke me before for "judging Rachel and her actions a bit too harsh" (not a direct quote but basically what was said).
I guess we'll have to wait and see how things turn out, but I am fully expecting Ashe to keep getting taken advantage of and taking L's continuously, which does make it feel like the Kitten path is the only canonical path for her.

 

[Dessolos]

Yeah after reading that, and checking in the game myself. Especially on the other paths. I've found myself concurring with him. Rachel isn't even a good person, let alone a good sister or "soulmate".

I'm really struggling to believe the dev is fully aware of the monsters they have and are creating. Like almost no one seems like a decent individual in this game so far.

I tend to separate characters into Version A , B and so on depending on the branching. So for me id say the Cuckqueen version of Rachael yeah is more selfish and not as good of person. On the other paths for me I consider her just about as good a person as Ashe more or less both made mistakes. ( Rachael more than Ashe). Though Ashe does come out slightly ahead for me. At least until she does something else that is fucked up on the other paths haha. But for now my opinion of her hasn't change any for 2 out 3 of the paths.

 

[manscout]

Either the dev put the split in too soon, or they felt they had to because of the CQ path? Kitten and Siren overlap so much and differ on these weird little things instead of being truly distinct from one another.

I feel like this has to be very close to some real concerns of the dev. But like, seriously, who complained? Every single "cuck" thing had been extremely light and fully under the player's control before the route split, then it gets dialed to 11 on some plotlines, specially with Rachel and Evelyn, but also some really light stuff like Fiona accidentally seeing Evelyn naked gets removed from other routes so you don't see those fun scenes unless you commited to the cuckqueen route.

The game already has the option to have content tags superimposed on the choices, so it is not like you could accidentally get NTR scenes.

The only thing I can imagine people complaining is that technically Cleo gropes Rachel a bit during the pool event and you can only call her out and make her back off after it? But would take some seriously thin skin to want the game to have a specific cuck route to "quarantine" all of the vaguely "cuck" stuff because of light stuff like that, specially when you could already deal with it through in-story means.

The Lexi scene is odd though, it has no Kitten version. But the CQ Lexi version doesn't feel like the same character as the Siren Lexi version you get. In one she's a slut for big cock for the big cock and in the other she's a slut for your not-as-big cock, but because she's crushing on you hard. I don't think they gel well as they are currently in the game. That's not to say it couldn't happen. To address manscout

The dev also seems to draw a weird distinction between top/dom and sub/bot, on one hand seeming to equate them. But on the other pretending there is no overlap.

Made clear by making Lexi Siren exclusive and Fiona slamming it into your pussy if you at one point decided to focus on her instead of the porn on screen.

In the early content Lexi was already mutually exclusive with Natasha. I'm fine with there being some exclusive "siren" only scenes and partners and others exclusive to "kitten".

To be fair on Lexi's characterization, she mentions she is a lightweight with alcohol and the "cuckqueen" route involves Ashe keeping her around the bar for much longer while also ignoring her to check on her phone from any updates from Rachel. Lexi ends up having way more drinks and spends most of the time talking/flirting with the bartender instead of Ashe.

If "siren" Ashe decided to just leave early I don't see why it would be impossible for Lexi to stay around a bit longer and end up flirting with the bartender like she does in the CQ route.

Also idk I feel there is a bit of double-standard here, "CQ Lexi is such a slut she went off to suck that bartender just because they have a big dick" while "Siren Lexi so cute, she asked to get fucked in the ass because Ashe just has that much rizz ". I mean, who's to say Layla wasn't putting on some serious moves offscreen while Ashe was off checking her phone? Either way Lexi is just kinda slutty in both scenarios imo.

It has those checks right now anyway. The only true route checks are whether to kick of the route exclusive scene or not. Certain dialogue and choices are hidden behind the check for "siren" or "cuck" in the Lexi date. And in the Vanessa date it has that for "siren" as well. The rest of the content is the same.

On the Kate bit, it's odd that "siren" doesn't make her go under the table and "kitten" goes under the table herself. Especially when you consider the choice is removed from all the other scenes. Where it's decided for you.

Exactly, it would be easy to make most things optional or impacted by other more sensible criteria with barely any change to the written dialogue, at most just some very minor transition work. And despite it being unique post route-split, I haven't seen anyone complaining about being given the choice during Kate's scene instead of having it arbitrarly forced one way or another.

A mod to show the difference might actually be a great idea. We could change significant parts about the blackmail as well. Like giving the player the choice to not put it in. Interfere with the influencer on the Vanessa date, or try to get a refund from the usher. Things of that nature. I haven't done any Ren'py coding, but if you decide to do it and want help with the script/ideas please let me know. I'd be delighted to assist.

I appreciate the offer, but I have no interest in writing any actual new content. This is MorriganRae's story and I really don't think I could do it any justice with original content.

The point would be mostly to just replace every time the route switches are used with menu choices, related story switches the game has already set, or restoring functionality to the "dommescore" and "cuckscore" variables. At most I'd have to write brief transitions into the menu choices or to connect some content that will stop being mutually exclusive.

Idea would be mostly to use dommescore to decide for most of the fluff dialogue and then go with the old system of some things getting decided automatically if your dommescore is too low or too high and being given the choice if its floating around the middle. Most CQ content would still be made fully optional, but also gated behind a cuckscore check which would be based on how hard the NTR is (so like, seriously if you complain about how you somehow got a cuck scene, there is something seriously wrong with you), but stuff like Fiona walking in on Evelyn naked would be made part of the mandatory story because frankly it is too funny to be missable, specially with how harmless it is (at most put a "cuckscore > 0" check to enable it).

Choices in how to deal with Natasha would still be free choices to not limit anything the base game already isn't, but would have a big weight on the variables, dommescore increase if you go "siren", decrease if you go "kitten" (but possibility to reverse it if you break out of Natasha's hold), and high increase to cuckscore if you go CQ.

The immense difference in the romantic scene between Fiona and Ashe differing hugely because of choosing one particular route is the definitive proof of how your point is super valid and making fixed routes is a mistake. Hell kicking rapist cop and running away is also a sort of defiance and sort of Siren path yet it is locked on to Kitten path only.

The problem with Fiona's scene specifically is that the "Siren" scene needs either a massive uplift or to not exist as an alternative to the "Kitten" scene because the difference of quality is just too big.

Despite the fact I would say the core of the scene is still for it to be very romantic and passionate, I have no problem with saying the "Kitten" variation is still submissive-leaning because the heart of the scene is still Ashe's vulnerability and how Fiona pushes it to give her a blissful sexual experience.

Which is completely fine, Fiona didn't go into it with the intent of sexually dominating Ashe and neither did Ashe go into it with the expectative of getting owned by Fiona, it is just something that happened in the moment because Ashe ended up getting so aroused that she made herself vulnerable and, seeing that, Fiona got fixated on giving Ashe as much pleasure as she could.

And honestly, this is Ashe giving her vaginal virginity to her best friend with who she has a lot of sexual tension while also carrying all the baggage and conflicting feelings about being a "duplo", if it is not okay to write Ashe as vulnerable here then when the fuck would it be okay? It is simply unrealistic to try to write this scene with passion without showcasing Ashe's vulnerability.

And that's the fundamental issue with the "Siren" version of this scene, it tries to force a version of the scene without showcasing Ashe's vulnerability, because gotta make a point of trying to force this idea of a "Siren" Ashe onto the story. So we end up with way less sensual things happening and the writing being mostly dry descriptions that don't even fully match the action on the renders.

If instead of "Siren" trying to be a mutually exclusive alternative to the "Kitten" version (which is the better version of this scene) it tried being something that added to it, it would be a much more interesting dynamic.

(For example, if the Siren part of this scene was that, after the passionate first few orgasms, something builds up inside Ashe because she sees how hard Fiona was working to make her feel good, and how cool she was about the entire duplo thing, and Ashe decides that she also really wants to make Fiona feel good too and make her cum, so she takes the lead and starts riding cowgirl and doing her best to hold out her last orgasm until she also makes Fiona cum)

 

[Hungover00]

Look at the dialogue. The grunts made by RapeCop. A lot of things may have happened. And Rachel prior to that was talking about how huge her dick is.
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Yeah, no need to convince me, I thought it was blatantly obvious, but with a facade of deniability that's probably the spice for those that enjoy that sort of NTR.

 

[Ciaran8023]

Yeah, no need to convince me, I thought it was blatantly obvious, but with a facade of deniability that's probably the spice for those that enjoy that sort of NTR.

I thought it was blatantly obvious aswell, the whole "hidden affair" type deal is a staple in NTR and has been from the very beginning, honestly I'd be absolutely stunned if nothing happened, especially given how Rachel reacted when Ashe started questioning her.