VN Ren'Py Abandoned Estate : Dominate [v0.36.1] [Henissart]

[ZTex]

For me humiliation and sadism are sexy as hell and I can not help but feel an attraction to a sadistic woman.

I don't disagree with this. It's her motives for it that makes me despise her character.
She doesn't do it out of a sense of being better than others, she's doing it because she's insecure in her own self and is projecting onto others.

 

[Incognito Guy]

You are right, I mean misogyny. English is not my first language and it shows. Thank you for correcting me.

I am talking about comments which for example say how a 'real' man would not let himself be dominated by a women. In other words, they believe a man getting dominated goes against the 'natural order'. I would call this misagony misogyny. There are a lot of games here where a women gets abused and dominated by men but you never hear anyone question their womanhood

You know, you make a good point. I'm not sure if I would call it misagony, but maybe misogyny isn't out of question. Sorry, had to.

Personally I still think it's just people being too narrow minded to question themselves though, after all most porn games' target audience are young males, so it's normal to an extent to see people not questioning the "womanhood" of women in maledom as much as the other way around. It's harder to see things from the point of view of someone of the opposite sex if you think about it.

That said I did see people complaining about women being mistreated in some games here, mostly when it involved rape. To me they are all close minded fools, regardless of sides. As long as it's fictional people should be free to get off any way they want.

Don't get me wrong, you made a very valid argument and you are most likely right in more than a few cases. Talking generally though, I think you're looking at the problem without seeing the complete picture.

 

[Twistedrem]

Either you misspelled bitch (a common mistake really) or you confused Isabella for Elizabeth.

Man, I love me some waifu wars.

 

[ZTex]

Man, I love me some waifu wars.

They're more entertaining that the previous topic.

 

[Jacktron1]

idk if i can continue this game don't get me wrong well made well written good characters and unlike some i don't mind the male being dominated but i just dont know if i can handle seeing the friend being treated like this call me a pussy but i feel real bad for her

 

[jish55]

idk if i can continue this game don't get me wrong well made well written good characters and unlike some i don't mind the male being dominated but i just dont know if i can handle seeing the friend being treated like this call me a pussy but i feel real bad for her

Yep, that's my issue currently and why I cannot wait to start enacting revenge, because Heather is one I want to protect, and am not cool with how she's being treated by both daughters (the mistress is okay, she hasn't done anything too harsh to really warent any problems, but Isabella and Elizabeth need to be dealt with).

 

[Bolero]

Great update, as all the previous ones were. Not very long, but very high quality, man you really know how to setup the mood. Honestly cannot wait for future updates. This update gave us a little look of what will happen in the future and there is so much opportunity for very sexy scenes in the future updates.

 

[Deleted member 44741]

I wish Elisabeth would stop talking about the age of Anja and Mistress Stern. That joke is getting old...

(I'm sorry)

 

[anne O'nymous]

I am talking about comments which for example say how a 'real' man would not let himself be dominated by a women. In other words, they believe a man getting dominated goes against the 'natural order'. I would call this misagony misogyny.

Oh, but it's not misogyny, it's just them having too much insecurities in regard of their own manliness ; they are so few sure to be men, that they fear to be confused with a little girl if they bow.

There are a lot of games here where a women gets abused and dominated by men but you never hear anyone question their womanhood

Well, it's tricky here. Educated men will not complain, knowing that it mean nothing, and that anyway it's just a game. This will cavemen (generally the same than above) think that it's how a woman should be treated.

For me humiliation and sadism are sexy as hell and I can not help but feel an attraction to a sadistic woman.

I have many problems with Isabella. For me, she isn't sadist, but just a spoiled brat. She don't behave like this to abuse the other, but because she feel entitled to do it ; she's the daughter of a rich and successful business woman, and she believe that, because of this, she have all rights to do what she want with the peasants that live outside of the manor. I understand why you like her, but I'm not even sure that she understand that what she do is humiliating, and she clearly don't do it for her pleasure, but just because she can.
Elizabeth on the other hand, is more sadist, and definitively dominant. Using the MC to raise Heather lust so she can grope her without resistance, this while letting the MC blue balled. Making him encaged, apparently in order to make him later abuse her sister, while she could have come to so many other options.

But since it's just a game all this is a matter of taste.

 

[Ayhsel]

Writing is truly superb in this game.

 

[n0b0dy]

she isn't sadist

Isabella is a bully. She bullies Heather, she bullies Anja, she bullies the MC. You bully someone because you get a sense of pleasure and satisfaction from hurting and putting down another human being. This is what sadism is.

She don't behave like this to abuse the other, but because she feel entitled to do it

How do you know it is not both?

I'm not even sure that she understand that what she do is humiliating

Isabella is a wordsmith. She is a poet. Elizabeth might have art as a hobby but I would dare to argue that Isabella is the most artistically gifted of the two sisters. The way she so nonchalantly strings words together to form insults of a maximum emotional impact is a thing of great beauty and requires a great deal of craftsmanship and intelligence. You do not reach such a high level of skill in humiliation and degradation without understanding perfectly what you are doing.

this is a matter of taste.

Here we can agree ^^

 

[EdPokol]

Isabella is a bully. She bullies Heather, she bullies Anja, she bullies the MC. You bully someone because you get a sense of pleasure and satisfaction from hurting and putting down another human being. This is what sadism is.

How do you know it is not both?

Isabella is a wordsmith. She is a poet. Elizabeth might have art as a hobby but I would dare to argue that Isabella is the most artistically gifted of the two sisters. The way she so nonchalantly strings words together to form insults of a maximum emotional impact is a thing of great beauty and requires a great deal of craftsmanship and intelligence. You do not reach such a high level of skill in humiliation and degradation without understanding perfectly what you are doing.

Here we can agree ^^

I like the way you've analyzed the young mistresses and agree with the outcome. Isabella knows very well what she's doing and enjoys it.

But what I like even more is that the way this story is being told and the characters are being painted, leads us to this kind of contemplation. Phew, not many games do that with me

 

[Jacktron1]

I wonder if there are only gonna be women using heather or men too at some point by the way can't remember but did Elizabeth want us and Heather to do it together when we get her out?

 

[Jacktron1]

Can someone post a dom or “good” walkthrough?

 

[EdPokol]

I wonder if there are only gonna be women using heather or men too at some point

Checking my crystall ball and... mmmm, cant tell, its blurred.

... did Elizabeth want us and Heather to do it together when we get her out?

I assume you mean mc and heather; as far as i remember not in the paths i played but that could very well be a yes

 

[anne O'nymous]

You bully someone because you get a sense of pleasure and satisfaction from hurting and putting down another human being.

I disagree. A minority of bullies do it because of their sadism. For the majority, it's to prove that they worth more that the person they are bullying. Whatever because of a personal insecurity, social insecurity, in an attempt to overcome their own suffering, or whatever, there's many reason behind this.

How do you know it is not both?

Because of the way she reacted during the dinner. Both when she was explicitly jealous of her sister, and when she desperately tried to voice her own opinion, after the moment where Elisabeth tricked the MC.
She had no assurance at all, which imply that she isn't used to enforce her position, and that she never was effectively in a position where she had to use her own authority, like a sadist would be. And it's not due to the fact that she was facing her mother. Elisabeth had absolutely no problem to convince her. In fact she didn't even had to convince her, she simply voiced her opinion. This while Isabella was just trying to do it.
She's able to humiliate Anja, Heather and probably some others, but only because their are either submissive (Anja, and the MC in the submissive route), fear her (Heather), or have other motive and play along (the MC in the dominant route). If she was 10 years younger, sadism could be a possibility, but she's too old now. If she was really sadist, she would had already acquired the required authority.
There's also her frustration when Elisabeth won and the MC had to wear the chastity belt. Frustration that she later expressed by putting Heather in her cage ; she said it herself, Heather is inside only because she failed to put the MC inside. And this clearly isn't sadism, just bullying. A sadist would have admitted her defeat, enjoyed the suffering of the MC, and waited another occasion.

Finally, there's what is probably the best demonstration, the comparison with Elisabeth. At the pool, she made the MC focus on his crotch and the feeling coming from it, which will inevitably lead to an impossible erection. The fact that she did it to later enforce her gentle side, by covering the MC, don't change the sadism of this move. In fact it's the opposite, it make it more visible ; either you obey, and I'll not make you suffer more that needed, or you don't, and I'll make you live in hell.
At the opposite, Isabella did all that she can to prevent the said erection. Would she be effectively sadist, would she had really wanted to make the MC suffer, that she would have forced him to look at her when she was dressing. But no, instead of leading him to an impossible erection and all the implied suffering, she made him stay face to the ground. How a real sadist could have missed such opportunity ? Especially since she hate the MC ?
On a side note, the more I think about it, the more I feel that she's a total sub. It's not really hate that she feel against the MC (and more generally males), but fear. The fear that he can make her submit for sex, while she was raised to be a dominant woman.

The way she so nonchalantly strings words together to form insults of a maximum emotional impact is a thing of great beauty and requires a great deal of craftsmanship and intelligence.

Perhaps is it because I'm not a native English speaker, or perhaps because I'm not submissive, but her insult always made me laugh more than anything else. They tend to remember me the tantrum of my children, a good try, but it don't touch the target.
But as I said, I'm not submissive, I play this game because I like the story, not because I like the context in which the story is. Therefore, the target isn't at the same place for me.

You do not reach such a high level of skill in humiliation and degradation without understanding perfectly what you are doing.

Which doesn't mean that you are necessarily sadist. In my own language I turn this into an art, but I'm a gentle guy, as long as you don't touch to someone I care for. I can kill you with words, and that what I do, I don't want to make you suffer, I don't want to humiliate you, I kill you.
Which mean that Isabella can effectively be sadist, be she also can be submissive like I said above. In which case, she didn't mastered the art of insult to humiliate the other, but to protect herself. Seeing her will remember you what she said, therefore you'll avoid it as much as possible, to not suffer uselessly.


But well, once again it's just my reading of the story and characters. I can be right, as well as I can be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 44741]

Isabella isn't a bully. She gives Heather free drinks. Covers Heather up with a blanket so I don't have to look at her, and strips right in front of you.

Elisabeth is also a nice girl. She gives you a footjob, decorate your dick with jewelry and sits on your lap at the pool.

They are so cute.

 

[n0b0dy]

I disagree. A minority of bullies do it because of their sadism. For the majority, it's to prove that they worth more that the person they are bullying. Whatever because of a personal insecurity, social insecurity, in an attempt to overcome their own suffering, or whatever, there's many reason behind this.




Because of the way she reacted during the dinner. Both when she was explicitly jealous of her sister, and when she desperately tried to voice her own opinion, after the moment where Elisabeth tricked the MC.
She had no assurance at all, which imply that she isn't used to enforce her position, and that she never was effectively in a position where she had to use her own authority, like a sadist would be. And it's not due to the fact that she was facing her mother. Elisabeth had absolutely no problem to convince her. In fact she didn't even had to convince her, she simply voiced her opinion. This while Isabella was just trying to do it.
She's able to humiliate Anja, Heather and probably some others, but only because their are either submissive (Anja, and the MC in the submissive route), fear her (Heather), or have other motive and play along (the MC in the dominant route). If she was 10 years younger, sadism could be a possibility, but she's too old now. If she was really sadist, she would had already acquired the required authority.
There's also her frustration when Elisabeth won and the MC had to wear the chastity belt. Frustration that she later expressed by putting Heather in her cage ; she said it herself, Heather is inside only because she failed to put the MC inside. And this clearly isn't sadism, just bullying. A sadist would have admitted her defeat, enjoyed the suffering of the MC, and waited another occasion.

Finally, there's what is probably the best demonstration, the comparison with Elisabeth. At the pool, she made the MC focus on his crotch and the feeling coming from it, which will inevitably lead to an impossible erection. The fact that she did it to later enforce her gentle side, by covering the MC, don't change the sadism of this move. In fact it's the opposite, it make it more visible ; either you obey, and I'll not make you suffer more that needed, or you don't, and I'll make you live in hell.
At the opposite, Isabella did all that she can to prevent the said erection. Would she be effectively sadist, would she had really wanted to make the MC suffer, that she would have forced him to look at her when she was dressing. But no, instead of leading him to an impossible erection and all the implied suffering, she made him stay face to the ground. How a real sadist could have missed such opportunity ? Especially since she hate the MC ?
On a side note, the more I think about it, the more I feel that she's a total sub. It's not really hate that she feel against the MC (and more generally males), but fear. The fear that he can make her submit for sex, while she was raised to be a dominant woman.




Perhaps is it because I'm not a native English speaker, or perhaps because I'm not submissive, but her insult always made me laugh more than anything else. They tend to remember me the tantrum of my children, a good try, but it don't touch the target.
But as I said, I'm not submissive, I play this game because I like the story, not because I like the context in which the story is. Therefore, the target isn't at the same place for me.




Which doesn't mean that you are necessarily sadist. In my own language I turn this into an art, but I'm a gentle guy, as long as you don't touch to someone I care for. I can kill you with words, and that what I do, I don't want to make you suffer, I don't want to humiliate you, I kill you.
Which mean that Isabella can effectively be sadist, be she also can be submissive like I said above. In which case, she didn't mastered the art of insult to humiliate the other, but to protect herself. Seeing her will remember you what she said, therefore you'll avoid it as much as possible, to not suffer uselessly.


But well, once again it's just my reading of the story and characters. I can be right, as well as I can be wrong.

I enjoyed reading this and you make some good arguments. Thank you for sharing your point of view.

 

[TessSadist]

I disagree. A minority of bullies do it because of their sadism. For the majority, it's to prove that they worth more that the person they are bullying. Whatever because of a personal insecurity, social insecurity, in an attempt to overcome their own suffering, or whatever, there's many reason behind this.

Speaking as a true sadist in real life, I think you are right about most bullies. Peer pressure is a big factor actually from what I saw in my own experience. I never touched a girl physically in my entire life and only mildly taunted people but every single one of my former boyfriends bullied people mostly because I manipulated them to do so. I also enjoyed consoling the bullied person after the fact as such a good friend so I could hear how sad they felt, etc and I could keep a good girl image too while relishing the details. I also savored in one incident being the one to fire a very long time employee and shed fake tears for him and promised to help him while secretly rubbing my pussy at the same time under the desk. The true sadist is most likely the one who quietly watches (and maybe records subtly) the girl crying and struggles to stop licking her lips and locking her legs together awkwardly watching it. (to not show moistness, true fact that is a real problem actually). Later, she goes home and masturbates to the video and her tears but never does much outright because she's smart enough to avoid notice and a bad reputation. (at least IMHO hee hee) Isabella could be the younger sadist who blossoms into Elisabeth the more refined one, but I haven't seen anything yet to convince me either is a true sadist yet versus just mildly so and/or a bully/opportunistic and/or dominant. I am enjoying this thread more than the game itself at times so thanks

 

[Lermo]

I have many problems with Isabella. For me, she isn't sadist, but just a spoiled brat. She don't behave like this to abuse the other, but because she feel entitled to do it ; she's the daughter of a rich and successful business woman, and she believe that, because of this, she have all rights to do what she want with the peasants that live outside of the manor. I understand why you like her, but I'm not even sure that she understand that what she do is humiliating, and she clearly don't do it for her pleasure, but just because she can.
Elizabeth on the other hand, is more sadist, and definitively dominant. Using the MC to raise Heather lust so she can grope her without resistance, this while letting the MC blue balled. Making him encaged, apparently in order to make him later abuse her sister, while she could have come to so many other options.

I agree with you that Isabella is acting like a spoiled brat that thinks she is entitled to do so.
But what makes you think that Elizabeth is any different? Her approach is less blunt, yes. Acting out of the shadows. Manipulating others without having to argue agaist their opinions. It could be sadism but thats certaily not how i would define dominance.