VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.7.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[dolfe67]

This is probably the only criticism I have about this game. The MC never really thinks about a girl unless they have a scene together. He's written as the most caring and understanding guy, but while he's eating out Nancy he doesn't think twice about the fact that he asked out Annie the previous day?

And with the BJ scene with Alex, he only thinks about another girl afterwards when he says "imagine if I could get Dalia and Alex to do this together". Like, you just went on a date with Annie, did you forget about her? It comes off as fuckboy-ish when he's shown as a super caring and thoughtful guy, especially in scenes with Annie and Luna.

Welcome to harem games.

 

[Idontplay]

This is probably the only criticism I have about this game. The MC never really thinks about a girl unless they have a scene together. He's written as the most caring and understanding guy, but while he's eating out Nancy he doesn't think twice about the fact that he asked out Annie the previous day?

And with the BJ scene with Alex, he only thinks about another girl afterwards when he says "imagine if I could get Dalia and Alex to do this together". Like, you just went on a date with Annie, did you forget about her? It comes off as fuckboy-ish when he's shown as a super caring and thoughtful guy, especially in scenes with Annie and Luna.

Like Doctor House said, "Everybody is a liar"; also Orion.

 

[Crepusculum]

You mean Dalia, Delilah is Nova (boom, I remember now ! ).

To answer though, it didn't feel rush to me since they made the bet like days before it happened, like it didn't come out of nowhere. It did feel a little pushy when Orion started mentionning during such an emotionnal moment, but then he just give up easily and Dalia is the one who says "let's do it". I mean MC help her numbers of times and make her feel good and confident in herself, that plus the bet makes it believable in my opinion.

She's flirting like crazy, they're alone together in a giant roman bathroom and adrenaline's pumping due to the fights that just happened. Plus it's probably illegal to say no to an Empress. And if it's not, it should be when she looks like this.

That's probably the case, like Annie. Very often there's one or two girls like this in this kinda VNs. If there's already attraction/love in the past, it makes it easier for MC to get close to them to begin with since something is already there. I mean if she didn't find him attractive, she wouldn't even have accepted the bet to begin with I presume.

Fixed the name, thanks!
i couldn't say it better than sageproduct did - its a harem game (so far) and it appears that everyone is cool will mixing juices, but the MC shouldn't know that.

It's not that Orion decides to have sex with Nancy that's jarring, or that he will give in to such lust.

It's *how* he goes about it. In the dialogue he seems way too comfortable and familiar. You'd expect him to be far more surprised, awestruck, and reality checking to be breaching this barrier with his nanny. Given his feelings for both Dalia and Penelope, you'd also expect him to at least think about them and have at least a bit of a fear moment before proceeding.

It feels like too sharp a break away from his usual dynamic with Nancy. It's not THAT it happens, it's HOW it happens.

Thanks! you said it perfectly

Oh I see what you mean. I guess that could be excused by all the confidence he gains with all that happens to him in Eternum. It's also an usual trope, the hero that gain more and more confidence as the story progress, with all the fights, the dangers etc. That plus the fact that she's clearly and heavily flirting, practically telling him to go for it.

As for Dalia and Penelope, I believe he does check with Dalia during the beach scene when she says let's do it, that's when she justify wanting to do it with the "you make me feel more confident" and all that nice stuff. As for Penelope there's only one scene really and it's the photoshoot where he actually is uncomfortable and not familiar and she's the one who insists on taking the photos.

I get what you mean though, Nancy could have been more "in control" with a more surprised and less jarring Orion, even if he doesn't reject her. The photoshoot with Penelope is a good comparison for what you're saying. Yeah, maybe he could have been more like this in the Nancy scene too.

It didn't bother me much though, as long as it can be justified with how the characters feel I'm fine with it. All the "good girls" with Annie bothered me more but I basically replaced them in my script . Talking about it because it seems like the same "symptom" of Orion become more and more dominant in the last two updates, even when it's a little pushy or unecessary.

The Dalia one was problematic for me on HER end.
He said it as a joke and it was ok written - "BTW I BEAT HIM AND YOU DIDNT" but then she turned it around, and why? wouldn't a scene with a real fight where he wins and the fact dawning on her that she has to do it be better? him saying she doesn't have to, only for her to realize she wants to.

Think about the interaction between MC and Annie in the space station. that felt a lot more real

This is probably the only criticism I have about this game. The MC never really thinks about a girl unless they have a scene together. He's written as the most caring and understanding guy, but while he's eating out Nancy he doesn't think twice about the fact that he asked out Annie the previous day?

And with the BJ scene with Alex, he only thinks about another girl afterwards when he says "imagine if I could get Dalia and Alex to do this together". Like, you just went on a date with Annie, did you forget about her? It comes off as fuckboy-ish when he's shown as a super caring and thoughtful guy, especially in scenes with Annie and Luna.

Yes,
i think that's what is missing here.
the whole Eternum story line is fantastic and really fun, and can really grow a lot (he can easily make more games around this same world), but something is lackluster in the interactions - take the interactions with Veronica and Rosa in Pale Carnations.
You can FEEL how Veronica really DOESNT want to anything with MC but he slowly becomes island in a storm, while Rosa finds the good in him and wants him as an outlet, its slow and it makes sense (IMO) - i think Eternum misses this completely.

Welcome to harem games.

Lol
i think we're past the Sharklagoon era now, where these devs do AMAZING work and also earn a salary that doesn't insult the hard work they do. it's fine (and probably good to) expect "more", where possible. this really is constructive.
The humor, sound design, art work, animation, and worldbuilding are all AMAZING.
im sure the Dev knows he can get better at some things, and would probably appriciate the input.

 

[imadumb]

Killed by Police = SAO ?

 

[crustlord12]

akakaakakaaka this made my day aklakaakakaakaak

damn I didn't realize Mr. Krabs played Eternum

 

[imadumb]

Bro... this haunted house story... so cool and sad, nice job here

 

[Crepusculum]

Bro... this haunted house story... so cool and sad, nice job here

That's actually pretty much the only part i skipped in the game, but now that i finished 0.4, should i go back and do it?

 

[imadumb]

 

[Deleted member 4058859]

i think that's what is missing here.
the whole Eternum story line is fantastic and really fun, and can really grow a lot (he can easily make more games around this same world), but something is lackluster in the interactions - take the interactions with Veronica and Rosa in Pale Carnations.
You can FEEL how Veronica really DOESNT want to anything with MC but he slowly becomes island in a storm, while Rosa finds the good in him and wants him as an outlet, its slow and it makes sense (IMO) - i think Eternum misses this completely.

I dont think you can compare these two games. Pale Carnations tries to be realistic at least when it comes to characters. A harem game cannot be realistic when it comes to character interactions. Sure poly relationships exist but trying to make the game realistic would be complicated and comes with drawbacks of its own. Then there is the setting - Pale carnations is set in a brothel the girls are all in desperate situations willing to do anything to make their lives better. They are forced to interact with the MC and engage in sexual activities with him whether they like him or not. The setting here is completely different these are normal girls living normal lives they are not forced to interact with the MC and have sexual interactions with him. Any attempt to incorporate sexual content with multiple girls in a realistic way would either require a LOT of time (ie the game would drag on forever) or would involve cheating and hence drama.

From the dev's perspective there are tradeoffs to make - should the game be a slow burn that comes at the cost of no sexual content for ages? Should game be realistic and focus on drama/cheating? Or is it ok for the drama/realism to take a backseat and assume players are willing to suspend their disbelief so the game can focus more on the plot. The reason these are tradeoffs and why I dont think you can do all of them simultaneously is because as a developer time is your most valuable resource. Time spent on character interactions comes at the cost of time that could be spent on other things (such as plot progression). The developer chose the last option and I am so glad he did. If you asked me what was more interesting to me - the plot or potential drama between characters, I would go with plot 100% of the time.

Thats not to say character interactions cannot be improved - I agree that they can. However I also want to point out that being realistic does not necessarily equate to being better. I think this game would be a lot worse if it tried to be realistic. Pale Carnations is an excellent game that is very well written - I think Pale Carnation's writing and character development is much better than Eternum. But even so I enjoyed the experience of playing Eternum more - it was just more fun for me. Sometimes it is fun to suspend your disbelief and just have fun reading a story with characters that behave unrealistically. There are games that try to be realistic and games that dont try to be realistic and I think there is a place for both.

That's actually pretty much the only part i skipped in the game, but now that i finished 0.4, should i go back and do it?

Yes. The spooky scenes are great. This quest is one of the better scenes in the game in my opinion.

 

[Alandir]

I dont think you can compare these two games. Pale Carnations tries to be realistic at least when it comes to characters. A harem game cannot be realistic when it comes to character interactions. Sure poly relationships exist but trying to make the game realistic would be complicated and comes with drawbacks of its own. Then there is the setting - Pale carnations is set in a brothel the girls are all in desperate situations willing to do anything to make their lives better. They are forced to interact with the MC and engage in sexual activities with him whether they like him or not. The setting here is completely different these are normal girls living normal lives they are not forced to interact with the MC and have sexual interactions with him. Any attempt to incorporate sexual content with multiple girls in a realistic way would either require a LOT of time (ie the game would drag on forever) or would involve cheating and hence drama.

Thats not to say character interactions cannot be improved - I agree that they can. However I also want to point out that being realistic does not necessarily equate to being better. I think this game would be a lot worse if it tried to be realistic. Pale Carnations is an excellent game that is very well written - I think Pale Carnation's writing and character development is much better than Eternum. But even so I enjoyed the experience of playing Eternum more - it was just more fun for me. Sometimes it is fun to suspend your disbelief and just have fun reading a story with characters that behave unrealistically. There are games that try to be realistic and games that dont try to be realistic and I think there is a place for both.

That's just not true, though. You can make more believable characters in a harem game. Being ok with an harem isn't some magical thing that instantly destroys a character's believability. Going into a game like this everyone will have a certain suspension of disbelief and that suspension of disbelief will generally extends to all the hot women being strangely very ok with a harem. Noone is saying that the girls aren't allowed to be ok with a harem. The problem isn't that Eternum is a harem game, the problem is how Eternum goes about it's harem elements. You don't need endless drama to write a harem more believable than it is currently in Eternum.

There isn't really anything wrong with most of the girls development so far. Nancy, Dahlia, Alex and Nova have pretty much all established that what happened so far is not part of a serious thing. Even if they don't really mean it, there's no real problem there with Orion doing it with other girls as well. Annie is just the outlier here. He's started seriously dating her and hasn't mentioned the other girls to her or even just thought about her with other girls. It doesn't need drama, but it would have helped if he had given annie a heads up. When they made the date arrangement or even after the date. He wouldn't even need to directly mention doing stuff with other girls. For example he could have asked her if she wants them to be exclusive and given how nervous annie is about dating orion and how she tries to downplay stuff it would have made sense for her be like "Oh, it's chill, all cool, don't worry about it."

I don't disagree that Eternum is fun the way it it. We wouldn't be commenting here at all, if we weren't invested in the game. But that doesn't mean it's devoid of things to critisize. And I do heavily disagree witht the assessment that more believable character interactions in harem games need drama. That's one way to write them, but it is by far not the only way to write them.

 

[jocoyo]

That's just not true, though. You can make more believable characters in a harem game. Being ok with an harem isn't some magical thing that instantly destroys a character's believability. Going into a game like this everyone will have a certain suspension of disbelief and that suspension of disbelief will generally extends to all the hot women being strangely very ok with a harem. Noone is saying that the girls aren't allowed to be ok with a harem. The problem isn't that Eternum is a harem game, the problem is how Eternum goes about it's harem elements. You don't need endless drama to write a harem more believable than it is currently in Eternum.

There isn't really anything wrong with most of the girls development so far. Nancy, Dahlia, Alex and Nova have pretty much all established that what happened so far is not part of a serious thing. Even if they don't really mean it, there's no real problem there with Orion doing it with other girls as well. Annie is just the outlier here. He's started seriously dating her and hasn't mentioned the other girls to her or even just thought about her with other girls. It doesn't need drama, but it would have helped if he had given annie a heads up. When they made the date arrangement or even after the date. He wouldn't even need to directly mention doing stuff with other girls. For example he could have asked her if she wants them to be exclusive and given how nervous annie is about dating orion and how she tries to downplay stuff it would have made sense for her be like "Oh, it's chill, all cool, don't worry about it."

Yeah I agree, that's the thing, OIALT and the other harem games I've played all have a casual feel to them. But for Eternum, Caribdis wrote a more serious relationship story with Annie that plays out like a normal relationship between young people (minus the spontaneous thighjob). So it feels weird writing-wise for MC to do all this casual flirting and sex, while also giving him a traditional dating path with a girl who's none the wiser.

 

[Crepusculum]

I dont think you can compare these two games. Pale Carnations tries to be realistic at least when it comes to characters. A harem game cannot be realistic when it comes to character interactions. Sure poly relationships exist but trying to make the game realistic would be complicated and comes with drawbacks of its own. Then there is the setting - Pale carnations is set in a brothel the girls are all in desperate situations willing to do anything to make their lives better. They are forced to interact with the MC and engage in sexual activities with him whether they like him or not. The setting here is completely different these are normal girls living normal lives they are not forced to interact with the MC and have sexual interactions with him. Any attempt to incorporate sexual content with multiple girls in a realistic way would either require a LOT of time (ie the game would drag on forever) or would involve cheating and hence drama.

From the dev's perspective there are tradeoffs to make - should the game be a slow burn that comes at the cost of no sexual content for ages? Should game be realistic and focus on drama/cheating? Or is it ok for the drama/realism to take a backseat and assume players are willing to suspend their disbelief so the game can focus more on the plot. The reason these are tradeoffs and why I dont think you can do all of them simultaneously is because as a developer time is your most valuable resource. Time spent on character interactions comes at the cost of time that could be spent on other things (such as plot progression). The developer chose the last option and I am so glad he did. If you asked me what was more interesting to me - the plot or potential drama between characters, I would go with plot 100% of the time.

Thats not to say character interactions cannot be improved - I agree that they can. However I also want to point out that being realistic does not necessarily equate to being better. I think this game would be a lot worse if it tried to be realistic. Pale Carnations is an excellent game that is very well written - I think Pale Carnation's writing and character development is much better than Eternum. But even so I enjoyed the experience of playing Eternum more - it was just more fun for me. Sometimes it is fun to suspend your disbelief and just have fun reading a story with characters that behave unrealistically. There are games that try to be realistic and games that dont try to be realistic and I think there is a place for both.

I think we are more of the same mind as it appears.
I don't think i had "more fun" playing Eternum but i was more upset when i ran out of content to play, which is is a fantastic indication of immersion.

I my "criticism" is really minor and like you said, not based on it being 100% realistic, i dont need 2-3 more game hours, just thought the transition could be better. For every other scene, suspension of disbelief was sufficient or even note required.
I totally get the Alex and Nova BJ Scenes. I 100% get the Annie scenes.
i just need a few more lines from the MC in the Nancy scene, and a few more from them.

That's just not true, though. You can make more believable characters in a harem game. Being ok with an harem isn't some magical thing that instantly destroys a character's believability. Going into a game like this everyone will have a certain suspension of disbelief and that suspension of disbelief will generally extends to all the hot women being strangely very ok with a harem. Noone is saying that the girls aren't allowed to be ok with a harem. The problem isn't that Eternum is a harem game, the problem is how Eternum goes about it's harem elements. You don't need endless drama to write a harem more believable than it is currently in Eternum.

There isn't really anything wrong with most of the girls development so far. Nancy, Dahlia, Alex and Nova have pretty much all established that what happened so far is not part of a serious thing. Even if they don't really mean it, there's no real problem there with Orion doing it with other girls as well. Annie is just the outlier here. He's started seriously dating her and hasn't mentioned the other girls to her or even just thought about her with other girls. It doesn't need drama, but it would have helped if he had given annie a heads up. When they made the date arrangement or even after the date. He wouldn't even need to directly mention doing stuff with other girls. For example he could have asked her if she wants them to be exclusive and given how nervous annie is about dating orion and how she tries to downplay stuff it would have made sense for her be like "Oh, it's chill, all cool, don't worry about it."

I don't disagree that Eternum is fun the way it it. We wouldn't be commenting here at all, if we weren't invested in the game. But that doesn't mean it's devoid of things to critisize. And I do heavily disagree witht the assessment that more believable character interactions in harem games need drama. That's one way to write them, but it is by far not the only way to write them.

right, i also agree with everything (but i was slightly more picky about Nancy and Dalia than you were).
That is also kind of missing with Annie - how is this going to go about in future update? would we need to break her heart out of nowhere? i think some of the prep he made was a good start (with how they will just go with it) but with the way things are going right now, only Nancy is on board with "a more the merrier", the rest i can see working out, and Annie would probably be devastated.

And yes, invested is the right word.
i find myself calculating how long till he finishes developing the game.

 

[imadumb]

Wait, thats cheating :V

 

[Deleted member 4058859]

That's just not true, though. You can make more believable characters in a harem game. Being ok with an harem isn't some magical thing that instantly destroys a character's believability. Going into a game like this everyone will have a certain suspension of disbelief and that suspension of disbelief will generally extends to all the hot women being strangely very ok with a harem. Noone is saying that the girls aren't allowed to be ok with a harem. The problem isn't that Eternum is a harem game, the problem is how Eternum goes about it's harem elements. You don't need endless drama to write a harem more believable than it is currently in Eternum.

There isn't really anything wrong with most of the girls development so far. Nancy, Dahlia, Alex and Nova have pretty much all established that what happened so far is not part of a serious thing. Even if they don't really mean it, there's no real problem there with Orion doing it with other girls as well. Annie is just the outlier here. He's started seriously dating her and hasn't mentioned the other girls to her or even just thought about her with other girls. It doesn't need drama, but it would have helped if he had given annie a heads up. When they made the date arrangement or even after the date. He wouldn't even need to directly mention doing stuff with other girls. For example he could have asked her if she wants them to be exclusive and given how nervous annie is about dating orion and how she tries to downplay stuff it would have made sense for her be like "Oh, it's chill, all cool, don't worry about it."

I don't disagree that Eternum is fun the way it it. We wouldn't be commenting here at all, if we weren't invested in the game. But that doesn't mean it's devoid of things to critisize. And I do heavily disagree witht the assessment that more believable character interactions in harem games need drama. That's one way to write them, but it is by far not the only way to write them.

That was not what the original discussion was about though. I was arguing against the need to take things slower and that the progression of sexual content is fine the way it is. I think the issue you are pointing out is an issue I agree with - the MC can be a bit more considerate. I also want the MC to be more open to annie and the game establishing that either annie is ok with the MC seeing other girls (I am sure she is ok but I want the game to be more explicit about it) or making it clear this is not 1:1. I also did not like the way he was willing to throw away money she had been saving up for him on some random whore - he came off as a complete asshole to me in that scene. But this is not what I am trying to talk about.

What I am trying to say is the girls advances towards the MC is fine the way it is and does not need to be changed. I dont see anything wrong with Dalia willing to give the MC a blowjob or Nancy flirting and being open to the MC's advances in the roman server. I am perfectly ok with the pace of the sexual content and I dont think it needs to be slowed down for the sake of realism. The change that I think needs to happen is within the MC and not within the girls.

 

[Crepusculum]

That was not what the original discussion was about though. I was arguing against the need to take things slower and that the progression of sexual content is fine the way it is. I think the issue you are pointing out is an issue I agree with - the MC can be a bit more considerate. I also want the MC to be more open to annie and the game establishing that either annie is ok with the MC seeing other girls (I am sure she is ok but I want the game to be more explicit about it) or making it clear this is not 1:1. I also did not like the way he was willing to throw away money she had been saving up for him on some random whore - he came off as a complete asshole to me in that scene. But this is not what I am trying to talk about.

What I am trying to say is the girls advances towards the MC is fine the way it is and does not need to be changed. I dont see anything wrong with Dalia willing to give the MC a blowjob or Nancy flirting and being open to the MC's advances in the roman server. I am perfectly ok with the pace of the sexual content and I dont think it needs to be slowed down for the sake of realism. The change that I think needs to happen is within the MC and not within the girls.

I disagree, the argument was not about taking things slower, or about the progress being off. Go back a couple of pages and you'll see that I started this discussion, and your first post about it was a response to me.

I clearly said this:

Did anyone else find the Dalia beach scene rushed? And the Nancy one as well but less so.
I think all other scenes are spot-on.

Dalia went from nothing to surprised she kissed MC to a BJ in an hour, it felt very rushed.

This discussion was exactly about that, i never said things need to taken slower.
Look at the Penny scene for a second, Orion is shocked she is even TALKING ABOUT TOPLESS PICTURES, he is dumbfounded and you can clearly feel he is so scared of saying anything to mess this up so he just says "uhh hua"

That's all think was missing in the Dalia and Nancy scenes (not THAT exactly, but pacing for those scenes individually), otherwise, i too am ok with those scenes just like you are!

On a different note

I also did not like the way he was willing to throw away money she had been saving up for him on some random whore - he came off as a complete asshole to me in that scene.

I can actually somehow get this.
At this point in the story he is a virgin that pretty much hasn't ever touched a woman, being sold on the idea that an extremely attractive woman that REJECTED many others, is interested in him. It's funny but i find it understandable.

 

[Deleted member 4058859]

This discussion was exactly about that, i never said things need to taken slower.

I do not understand. Doesn't a complaint about a scene being rushed imply that you want the progression to be slower? Or am I misunderstanding something? I am saying that I think the scene with dalia/nancy are fine the way they are and I dont think it needs to go slower.

I can actually somehow get this.
At this point in the story he is a virgin that pretty much hasn't ever touched a woman, being sold on the idea that an extremely attractive woman that REJECTED many others, is interested in him. It's funny but i find it understandable.

I felt like it is the equivalent of spitting on Annie's face - she spent months/maybe even years saving up for Orion (presumably to eventually get him a chip) and he is happy to throw it away for an hour of fun on some whore he just met. Virgin or not I dont think his behavior can be justified. Can I understand his behavior? Yes. Does it make him look like a complete piece of shit in my eyes? Also yes.

 

[jocoyo]

That is also kind of missing with Annie - how is this going to go about in future update? would we need to break her heart out of nowhere? i think some of the prep he made was a good start (with how they will just go with it) but with the way things are going right now, only Nancy is on board with "a more the merrier", the rest i can see working out, and Annie would probably be devastated.

I'd honestly really hate it if Annie is just written to believe "oh well, my boyfriend's been banging other people behind my back and he won't stop, i like this idea". She's an innocent girl who said herself she imagines her relationship to play out like a Disney movie, so I don't know how well written the inevitable "Annie finds out" scene will be, other than a "I'll join a harem for the sake of harem" situation.

 

[Deleted member 4058859]

I'd honestly really hate it if Annie is just written to believe "oh well, my boyfriend's been banging other people behind my back and he won't stop, i like this idea". She's an innocent girl who said herself she imagines her relationship to play out like a Disney movie, so I don't know how well written the inevitable "Annie finds out" scene will be, other than a "I'll join a harem for the sake of harem" situation.

I do not expect it to be some long drama filled scene. I think it is going to be like once in a lifetime where lauren+judy found out about each other. I think Annie is just going to be ok with it. She has a crush on Dalia as well so maybe the dev can use that to make her more ok with the harem.

 

[imadumb]

Jerry = Kenny McCormick :v

 

[Son of Durin]

Yeah I agree, that's the thing, OIALT and the other harem games I've played all have a casual feel to them. But for Eternum, Caribdis wrote a more serious relationship story with Annie that plays out like a normal relationship between young people (minus the spontaneous thighjob). So it feels weird writing-wise for MC to do all this casual flirting and sex, while also giving him a traditional dating path with a girl who's none the wiser.

The current update is next for me to play (delayed gratification and other games ahead of it and all), but Annie is the only IRL relationship right now that has included contact (at least as far as I've played) and other sexy times have been within Eternum. Unless and until that dynamic changes, he's effectively playing a harem game himself, while having a single LI IRL.