Apologies, which part of the message should I have included in spoiler brackets?
- Thread starter Caribdis
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That's reasonable. Characters having a problem to solve is certainly more interesting than characters not having a problem to solve.
We'll see. Of course, simply having a problem to solve, a struggle to overcome, doesn't in itself ensure a good character arc. That depends on whether the character has to change and mature as a person to solve/overcome, or whether it's just a matter of doing a training montage/finding a thing/solving a puzzle. Fingers crossed. Maybe someday I'll be on Team Annie yet!
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This was a manner of speaking, and you know it. Cheap trick. Subtle but cheap nonetheless. Poisoning the well, uh ?
And I'm telling you that each LI are both functionally important and still interesting. You compared them to tell us how one of the LI is as bland despite being important. Again, cheap trick.
Yes, but it's not accurate. I'm not attacking you, I am just telling you that people who don't find a well-written character interesting is on them, which you don't seem to understand because you think that you not being interested mean that the character is not interesting. That's just false. I'm not interested in quantum physics, yet I know, objectively, that it can be interesting for some people. This is the same here. You're saying a character is not interesting, I'm telling you she is because she has deep character traits that make her interesting and she's well written. And the fact that you or anyone is not interested don't make anything less interesting. I know how to differentiate what I like and what is good, and I know how to differentiate what is interesting and what is not. I don't like BaDIK, but I know it's good. I'm not interested in, say, Tuco from breaking bad, but I objectively think that he is interesting.
Again, check your preferences. Don't say that something is not interesting when it is. Say you're not interested. Because otherwise you risk annoying someone like me who can go off on writing novels about why you're wrong. Unless you're just joking, but that's another case entirely.
Funny, you saying a character is not interesting also seem like an opinion, stated as if it were a fact. Funny how life is, isn't it ?
You can be reasonable and be wrong. You can disagree with me and use bad arguments to support why you disagree. Reality is shaped by our beliefs and preferences, sure. But it comes from a substance as a base. The very fact that a character is well-written make them interesting. You're not interested, it's your belief and preference, not reality.
It's misstated as a fact because it's presented like a fact. "Annie is not interesting or appealing" is a factual sentence. Nowhere in that sentence there's an indication that it's just your preference. I think at this point we already argued a lot in this thread about how Annie, and each and every Li in Eternum, is interesting. Saying they're not interesting is simply not true. Saying you're not interested, and why, would be more accurate.
But we're just playing with semantics here. You use "interest" as if it's factual. I don't argue with you about the "I do not find Annie as interesting or appealing as Luna" because that sentence is indeed presented like a preference, and not a fact. This is the internet, semantics is important.
No, I 100% agree. There's people who are not interested in interesting stuff. Just please try to not present your interests as a fact. Even I don't find Mozart or Beethoven interesting or appealing, yet I'm not here trying to convince people who love them that what they find interesting is not.
As a matter of fact, I only say that said character is interesting to counterbalance someone who said they're not. When someone said Luna was the "least interesting", I went off. When someone says Annie is not interesting, I also lose it. I'm not the one who started it.
Plus I'm not suppressing anything, hardly arguing that people trying to convince others that one of the LI is not interesting seem to seek conflict and are annoying. Which I react by entering the fray. I've litterally waited 5 pages of people arguing before I decided to answer you. Before that it was all Church of Nova trying to convert other and other answering with good mood and jokes.
No, I'm not. I'm saying that stating one preference as a fact is wrong. Especially to people who like or are interested in something I dislike or I'm not interested in.
I have no idea why any of us write all of this shit. I guess my point is that people's preferences don't "make" the character. Only Caribdis (and people helping him maybe) make them. Therefore, the intent and the results are more important that people's preferences in the end.
My pleasure, pal. /passive-agressive.
I have a better suggestion : stop telling me what I need to do. You're just some rando on the internet who feels compelled to answer another rando because he disagrees with you for some reason. I'm not terribly concerned if you and I are good too. Stop answering me, I'll stop answering you. Stop attacking something I like and I'm interested in, and I'll stop defending it. Really simple, welcome to the internet.
Okay, I get it too.
Sorry. Again it's about semantics. Maybe it wasn't your intention, and maybe that's usually not someone's intention, but the way we whare opinions and preferences actually matter. Phrasing is important. Plus we can litterally delete or change said phrases here so there's no excuses.
I know I come off strong but that's because, while I don't write here often, I read this thread a lot. Meaning that when the good mood goes away because suddenly there's like 5 pages of arguing about if a character is interesting or not, I feel it. This is almost the only thread I read, and I like to see the church of nova going crazy and all the crazy people here using memes and having crazy theories etc. That's until someone come here and stirr a pot of shit about a character.
But right, maybe I'll be better off putting images and memes and jokes about it because arguing usually lead nowhere.
Well no, I don't hear myself. Well I'm hearing my fingers typing the keys I'm writing with.
Just saying, if you put your opinion and preferences out there, be ready for some crazy randos to try and lecture you about it. Especially when you try to make your preference a fact.
It just seemed to me like it was annoying you, so that's just a friendly reminder that crazy randos are indeed a possibility.
Hello.
Meaning you're trying to state that a character is not interesting by saying just that, while still using the argument of "it's my opinion" to try and deflect responsabilities of that claim. That's a nice try.
But maybe it wasn't your intention. Like I said it's hard to differentiate what "is" interesting and what is interesting "to me" or "to you". Even if you can differentiate that (and I don't know you so I won't assume you can't), it gets even more difficult when you communicate it, because phrasing. Even more so on the internet, since every rando who don't agree with you can react to every single word you say.
By the goddesses, that was long...
Anyway, the fire has past now. I'll try to be more candid because... pheeew.
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They're trying to rival your posts for length, but each post is a point-by-point rebuttal of the other post ... my brain was spinning in my skull ...
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I still think there's going to be some side-cest in the future ... Mom is definitely NOT adverse to the possibility ...
No, I did not. Even if I harbor the opinion that Annie is bland, that does not entitle you to pretend that that was the point my example was intended to illustrate. I never represented that my Tolkien examples show that Annie is a bland character, nor do I think that they do. Doing so would require a different line of argument.
Rather than go through the rest of your post point-by-point I want to ask you this: You seem pretty set on the idea that I wrote some illicitly declarative statement along the lines of "Annie is not interesting or appealing. FACT." Looking back over my posts, I do not see where I declared any such thing. Please show me an actual example of some declarative statement I wrote that you think I ought not have. This might help the discussion proceed. Thanks in advance.
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Oh, that one.
Thought you meant the other Anti-Annie shitposter (the annoying guy who seems to be trolling for the hell of it).
Oh of that I have no doubt.
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Someone thought it was a good idea to relight the fire on the "pro-Annie vs anti-Annie" debate because Elhemeer mentioned that thread activity was down (like the post I've linked literally came right after El mentioned that)...
...and...well...you're now seeing the result.
Edit: Just to be clear I'm not blaming you for any of this El. Rather I blame the guy who thought the best way to get the thread going again is to start a war (I say war because what ended up happening wasn't a debate...at least from what I've witnessed a few hours earlier anyway -_-)
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*This message has been brought to you by "FARL" (Fappers Against Reaction Limits)*
How the fuck am I already at my reaction limit, I hardly clicked on anything?!
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At this point you're either trolling or you're just retarded/immature and for you I hope it's the former,
Have a nice day far away from this thread
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Don't worry, I was just joking about it, just surprised by the length of your post that's all