VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[Doorknocker]

Please,Please,Please STOP Arguing.That horse is being beaten to death, Can we agree to disagree please.
As they say you have your opinion and I have mine, OK?

That'd be cool. My argument started when I said that the latest chapter had some fun stuff in it, but I found some of the MC's behavior to be jarring and a bit out of character. Then Dorfnutter was outraged and jumped down my throat about it. It's obvious he's gone after people over this before as there seemed to be a pretty set series of talking points and screen caps, arguing as if I had claimed that the MC wasn't arrogant. That straw man argument implied to me that this is a position he's used to arguing? Or that it's a regular position he tries to frame people as?

Anyway, the point of all this is to say that finding some of the MC's behavior jarring in the last chapter is a perfectly valid, justified reaction and isn't crazy as Dorfnutter seems to think.

 

[Dorfnutter]

What a ridiculously bad faith argument. MC likes the idea of fame, therefore fame and ambition dwarfs anything else he wants or anything/anyone else he's involved with. This has never been true in the game during actual play.

Him revealing his plans to Garrington and revealing Caly's ability to him as if he were gloating. Him deciding either to use his name or alias and then hoping it'll spread far. All signs pointing to that throwaway line being present and consistent with some of his actions, percolating until all of those wins and conquests put that line of thinking into the forefront this patch.

He constantly prioritizes playing with the girls he likes and tagging along on their little adventures instead of focusing on the gems (largely leaving that kind of stuff to Nancy and Nova, actually)

He tagged along with Luna and Penny because of the NPC disturbance in Ekabar. Or are we just going to ignore that?

Even in the intro scene you posted, fame is #2 while #1 is getting laid. Now, what actually happens in game is that it's not just about getting laid. He cares about the girls and he becomes increasingly more involved in their lives as time goes on. This is exaictly how character progression and character arcs work, by the way. Stated wants and desires at the start of a story are almost never what they actually end up wanting through the course of the tale. This is writing 101.

Only after they realize that getting what they want will result in negative consequences so they course correct or experience a redemption arc. Orion got shot because he let said wants get to his head, and it's obvious that he's about to get a redemption arc. Or do you think that he didn't deserve to get shot back there?

He's always wanting to get involved with the girls, and the girls have overwhelmingly steered him along from one event/goal to another throughout this entire series[...]This whole story has mostly been about the girls' ambition pushing MC from one adventure to another. This has not been a story defined by the MC's ambition and thirst for fame. It's completely disengenuous and bad faith bs to pretend that it is.

Oh, so now we're ignoring the Syndicate? The implication from Idriel's dialogue that she's been monitoring Orion if he's still in "the right path" and her constant coaxing for him to "break the chains" and "keep moving forward?" The dead who've plagued Orion's dreams since the beginning of the story asking for his help?

Also, "not defined by his ambition and thirst for fame." You really want to reduce Orion into a self-insert who has no personal desires or flaws despite the story saying otherwise? Despite me pointing out instances where they've shown but you continue to ignore because they apparently aren't important enough for you or "major enough" to warrant a look.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Actually, he does know from the lie detector test that she wants him to punch her V-card, he hears from her mother that she's been "practically chewing her nails off all week thinking about today," and that "she was crushed when they canceled those pirate cartoons you were going to watch together," that "Yesterday she spent the whole day whining and brainstorming plans for today," she tried to bake a cake that got ruined, she "tried to draw one of those Japanese comics of hers for you, but she wasn't happy with how it turned out, so she tossed it away," and "she spent a good three hours this morning trying to straighten her hair and comb it just right." The mother then talks about what a big crush Nova has on him. Yes, the MC knew this was a big deal for Nova.

Just because you know something doesn't necessarily mean you completely understand it. Orion has been portrayed at times to be a "high INT, low WIS" kind of guy. He's intelligent enough to know about Octopus lore and saying what he thinks a girl wants to hear, but then he follows it up by cashing in on said girl sucking his cock.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Spoiler: Uh, what?

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First, it proves that Orion focusing on the mission over the girls' wants (in this case, having a conversation about muffins) isn't something new. Hence his behavior to Nova isn't something that came out of nowhere.

Second, that scene with the courtesans is me refuting your argument that Orion has "overwhelming tunnel vision" for the girls. If that were true, then he would've focused more on thinking about the potential danger Nova and Alex are in and would've jumped on that portal without second thought. Except he didn't, even negotiating with Caly to stay there "forever."

 

[Doorknocker]

Him revealing his plans to Garrington and revealing Caly's ability to him as if he were gloating. Him deciding either to use his name or alias and then hoping it'll spread far. All signs pointing to that throwaway line being present and consistent with some of his actions, percolating until all of those wins and conquests put that line of thinking into the forefront this patch.

Spoiler: Okay, that's about it.

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He tagged along with Luna and Penny because of the NPC disturbance in Ekabar. Or are we just going to ignore that?

Spoiler: Don't be ridiculous

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Only after they realize that getting what they want will result in negative consequences so they course correct or experience a redemption arc. Orion got shot because he let said wants get to his head, and it's obvious that he's about to get a redemption arc. Or do you think that he didn't deserve to get shot back there?

Spoiler: That's not a requirement of character arcs

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Oh, so now we're ignoring the Syndicate? The implication from Idriel's dialogue that she's been monitoring Orion if he's still in "the right path" and her constant coaxing for him to "break the chains" and "keep moving forward?" The dead who've plagued Orion's dreams since the beginning of the story asking for his help?

Spoiler: Good lord...

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Also, "not defined by his ambition and thirst for fame." You really want to reduce Orion into a self-insert who has no personal desires or flaws despite the story saying otherwise? Despite me pointing out instances where they've shown but you continue to ignore because they apparently aren't important enough for you or "major enough" to warrant a look.

Spoiler: This has got to be the worst straw man yet

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[Perniciousducks]

Okay guys, the spoilers seem pretty out of hand. Do we really need to blur every detail in a thread discussing a game that has been out months?

 

[MAGO-DAG]

Okay guys, the spoilers seem pretty out of hand. Do we really need to blur every detail in a thread discussing a game that has been out months?

It's really getting sickening that very case when even spoilers became too much and hurt eyes

 

[Dorfnutter]

Okay, it's over the top clear that you're completely ignoring the entire premise of what I say and straw manning your way again and again. The MC gloating to Garrington is not proof of his ego and arrogance dwarfing his involvement with his harem. You keep posting and citing examples of him being cocky, not his cockiness overshadowing his ties with his harem. You're frantically trying to shift the goal posts and straw man your way through, pretending that I'm claiming that the MC doesn't have an ego. That's not what I said and the lines you throw up don't make MC ditching the date unilaterally and suddenly taking Nova for granted any less jarring. I'm done repeating myself with you. There clearly is no point.

Am I? My position has been that Orion's behavior towards Nova didn't come out from nowhere, that there were moments in the story where his negative aspects sometimes come to light and are a product of goals that you dismissed as "throwaway lines" when they show consistency of character. Just because they don't highlight it as well as you personally like like the LI events (because gods forbid a porn AVN tries to focus on the buildup towards the porn) doesn't mean they're not there.

That is not a requirement for character arcs and progression. Often, the stated wants aren't the actual wants of characters. Very often, in fact. You're acting as if the stated wants at the start of a story are always true and only change after a character crashes and burns. That's simply not true, and plenty of character arcs don't conform to that formula.

It remains true until stated otherwise. It's shown to still be true when Orion decided to either use his name or take an alias back in 0.6.

What does the Syndicate have to do with anything I've said? Are you just grasping at straws now? And you know that the MC doesn't remember any of his dreams, right? You've picked up on that?

You're the one who said that Orion is constantly stringed along by the girls in their adventures as if he doesn't have agency or purpose or being watched by various factions/major characters with their own vested interests, not me.

 

[Das_Peanut]

Ok, *now* we're back on track!

 

[aDumbPWfan]

I want to ask every American if this is the right statement.

 

[Pitrik]

 

[-Maniackanime-]

View attachment 3794561

Just a half a year then or less, thx for sharing...

 

[Spurdor]

I can't believe not all of the main girls get to be fucked in the real world, this kills the boner

 

[Pitrik]

I can't believe not all of the main girls get to be fucked in the real world, this kills the boner

With time all will have

 

[stings7]

i really like this game it has amazing jokes its funny scary and has lewd stuff as well as serious stuff i mean the lore behind that scary olace where head or tails appear everytime is just crazy and yeah i like this game its my top one game in the 18+ category

 

[Tulrek]

View attachment 3794561

 

[stings7]

View attachment 3795198

thx

 

[Forbesi]

Which of the main girls are virgins except Nancy?

 

[ArDZer]

Which of the main girls are virgins except Nancy?

Atm, Annie, Dalia and Luna (the first two are due to get awaited their sexy time in v0.8). While Alex, Nova and Penny had theirs in v0.6 and v0.7 respectively.

 

[SteveyP]

Which of the main girls are virgins except Nancy?

Annie, Dalia, Nova have been confirmed to be virgins (Nova is no longer a virgin as of this latest episode). Luna is heavily implied to be one as well but not confirmed. Alex and Penny are ambiguous (not including their sex scenes). They definitely don't "act" like virgins but knowing who this game caters to in the context of this topic, it wouldn't surprise me if they were this entire time. I'm personally not a fan of this idea of making all/most love interest virgins except the MILF but the story and characters are done well enough to where you can almost ignore it if you don't like it. And enjoy it if you do.