VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Agreed, but as I said, imho, it's a cultural issue first and foremost in real life and it can reflect on how you perceive a fictional work that goes against it.
If you are accustomed by everything around you to see polyamorous relations as wrong, and be frowned upon and considering all the other psychological pressure to get your mindset on the monogamy as the only positive value, you will get that issue ( and girls and women are especially forced to undergo that from young age).
I'm not saying I'm a pro polyamorous at all costs, but I think that a big role in making these themes popular is that we are conditioned to see them as taboo, and it's in human nature to be curious about it, and these games can offer at least a taste of it without having to do that in real life, only one thing is never made clear enough for me in these works ( or it's rarely done).
Being in a polyamorous relation doesn't mean you're granted to have sex with as many women as you want without having nothing to fear, instead is committing yourself to an even more engaging role, because you need to love ( and when I write love I mean love, respect, treat them good and make all the women you are in a relations with feel really loved and respected) women like you will do in a monogamous relation.
Talothral with his works made a very good work on that in my opinion.
And yes, that was one of the weak parts of OIAL for me as well ( but I think it was due to it being Caribdis first work so he payed a little bit of inexperience) I agree, something that I'm seeing treated way better in Eternum, he's more careful and is planning everything with a good balance as of right now, at least to me.
We need to see when the time comes what he planned, but I think it would be good, I don't think there would be too unnecessary drama, but the right amount of it and a good ending to everything.

And yeah I agree and I said the same, freely roam in a story like Eternum with all the amount of things that are already in the plate would be an overkill, and I don't think it would add anything to the game, since it's heavily store focused and like you said the benefits would be minimal if non existent.

I cant comment on the relationships part because I'm biased monogamy is in my blood

but it's always weird in these games that all the girls react to it the same way

girls are supposed to have different personalities but they're all okay with him being with other women

you expect me to believe that out of all these women, none of them feel jealousy

or anger

but again I'm biased because monogamy is in my blood and it's the only way I play

monogamy for life

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Realistically, yeah, an harem in a modern era is absurd. But you are ignoring two facts, being the first that this is not a realistic story and second that, even rare and absurd, harem relationships have been existing and exist in the real world. How is gonna do it Caribdis is a good question, but is not something impossible, only extremely rare.

In my opinion something is gonna happen to the MC just after the bomb drop up, maybe being kidnaped or seriously injured, the girls are gonna ignore the harem problem and they will focus on MC's problem, and then with more time just accept that the harem is not a bad situation, just strange, and maybe even hot (Caribdis is giving clues about threesomes and more, maybe my dreaming threesome MC-Dalia-Penny is impossible, but MC-Penny-Nova is gonna happen 100% sure).
But even with that I really expect Alex kicking the MC in the balls for that, and maybe Dalia chasing him for the house when she finds he's been with Penny and with her at the same time. I want drama, but the funny one.

well my brother I'm just happy that the game has monogamy as an option

I just hope the solo route are well written and thought was put into them

and for the record, I reject every girl except Alex

 

[Yvier the Duck]

well my brother I'm just happy that the game has monogamy as an option

I just hope the solo route are well written and thought was put into them

and for the record, I reject every girl except Alex

That's cool, I'm with you in real life, polyamorous relationship is not for me, the cons are bigger than the pros, but in this type of games the idea of making every girl happy is always a plus for me.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

That's cool, I'm with you in real life, polyamorous relationship is not for me, the cons are bigger than the pros, but in this type of games the idea of making every girl happy is always a plus for me.

it's funny I've never had a problem rejecting any girl in any game because once I find one girl I get attached to

that one girl and I don't care about anyone else besides I rather reject them and have them find love somewhere else

with someone that will treat them like they're one and only

 

[Takkatakka]

Realistically, yeah, an harem in a modern era is absurd. But you are ignoring two facts, being the first that this is not a realistic story and second that, even rare and absurd, harem relationships have been existing and exist in the real world. How is gonna do it Caribdis is a good question, but is not something impossible, only extremely rare.

In my opinion something is gonna happen to the MC just after the bomb drop up, maybe being kidnaped or seriously injured, the girls are gonna ignore the harem problem and they will focus on MC's problem, and then with more time just accept that the harem is not a bad situation, just strange, and maybe even hot (Caribdis is giving clues about threesomes and more, maybe my dreaming threesome MC-Dalia-Penny is impossible, but MC-Penny-Nova is gonna happen 100% sure).
But even with that I really expect Alex kicking the MC in the balls for that, and maybe Dalia chasing him for the house when she finds he's been with Penny and with her at the same time. I want drama, but the funny one.

There is a difference between having a realistic story and having realistic characters. You absolutely don't need the former (and the game doesn't have a realistic story), but you absolutely need the latter for the audience/players/readers (depending on the medium) to be able to connect to your story. And so far the game delivered on realistic feeling characters, that is why it works so well.

So when all of those characters would somehow and without any conflict just be okay with being part of a harem, that would be weird, because that isn't how most real people would react. Also - so far - it very much seems like relationships in the world of Eternum (the VN, not the in-game...game) seem to follow pretty much the same rules and conventions as they do in our real world, meaning people have monogamous relationships, everything else would be viewed as cheating or having an affair.

So ending up with a harem option that is somewhat convincing and that makes sense without contradicting a lot of what we know about the characters and the world so far, will be very difficult.

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

I cant comment on the relationships part because I'm biased monogamy is in my blood

but it's always weird in these games that all the girls react to it the same way

girls are supposed to have different personalities but they're all okay with him being with other women

you expect me to believe that out of all these women, none of them feel jealousy

or anger

but again I'm biased because monogamy is in my blood and it's the only way I play

monogamy for life

It is a harem game - it is not meant to be realistic. With almost any harem game I play wish fulfillment and suspension of disbelief is a given so no jealousy etc is exactly the kind of reaction I expect from the girls. And there is nothing wrong with that. You have both realistic games and harem games like this. They are just two different types of games that take different approaches. One type is not better than the other type and all games being the exact same and having the same approach would be boring as fuck so as far as I am concerned diversity and having different types of games is good for AVNs as a whole.

I also think that this game is written to be a harem game and both the game and the dev are pretty upfront about it so having incorrect expectations might just disappoint you. Rejecting a subset of girls or even all of them is an option but if you are going into the game with the expectation that there will be fully fleshed out paths with vastly different content from the harem option I think you will only end up disappointing yourself. Personally I think the not selecting certain girls routes is just going to be a 'skip content' option and there might be a separate solo girl ending similar to once in a lifetime. But that's about it. I dont think you will get anything more.

 

[PervyParadox]

Oh boy there's too much to answer but talking about monogamy in Eternum is going to give me eczema so I'll be brief on that one, just a little quote and back to waiting for that storm to pass.

So ending up with a harem option that is somewhat convincing and that makes sense without contradicting a lot of what we know about the characters and the world so far, will be very difficult.

For everyone who don't know yet : we've already established that the harem path is 300% the canon path in Eternum. We know that because first OiAL is a harem, and second there's a clear build up to that (thinking about threesomes, Penny and Nova, the fun banter between Dalia and Penny, Nancy being suspicious of Annie who almost spill the beans, or just straight up the fact that we just miss some scenes by ignoring a girl...). So far, Caribdis seems to build up to it pretty nicely. This is not some "forced harem" like some devs try to do, Eternum is meant to go this way. Honestly I think this is one of the reason it's so good : not only all the girls are great and unique, but also you know you don't have to choose because Caribdis is going to make them accept it slowly and still keep the character's reactions realistic and not contradictory.

As for it being realistic, it is in the context of the story and the characters so far (it's called consistancy).

So yeah you can keep talking about your monogamous playthroughs, but just don't go and think that the harem path is not the canon path now.

If you want monogamy, this is the wrong game for it. Harem will always find a way in Eternum.

 

[Dylan741]

I cant comment on the relationships part because I'm biased monogamy is in my blood

but it's always weird in these games that all the girls react to it the same way

girls are supposed to have different personalities but they're all okay with him being with other women

you expect me to believe that out of all these women, none of them feel jealousy

or anger

but again I'm biased because monogamy is in my blood and it's the only way I play

monogamy for life

Yeah, I agree that's why I said that about it being strange, it's not easy to write a good harem story because it's not realistic nowadays ( exception exist of course, but that's what they are) to have so many women having a committed relations with a man, not something casual but wanting to share him for the rest of their lives.
Like I wrote few authors made a somewhat realistic approach to a real harem ( it's a wrong term though, a polyamorous relations is more correct), Talothral with Sorcerer did it in my opinion, and Perverteer too with Sisterly Lust ( the moment Reachel confronted MC after finding it with the other sister Bella was very good), and even then the end was a little weak though it was better than most because it's difficult to believe in it.
And Caribdis in Eternum is working good premises for it, we will see what happen, one thing is certain harem/poly are just a fantasy they are the less realistic things possible, and that what's make them interesting to me, providing that the story is good enough to let the suspension of disbelief let pass the fact that too many women loving the same man is a weird thing as you said.
To enjoy a harem game you really need to not think too much and take it as lightly as possible or else it will not work, that's what I do and that's why I play very few of them to the full extent.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Yeah, I agree that's why I said that about it being strange, it's not easy to write a good harem story because it's not realistic nowadays ( exception exist of course, but that's what they are) to have so many women having a committed relations with a man, not something casual but wanting to share him for the rest of their lives.
Like I wrote few authors made a somewhat realistic approach to a real harem ( it's a wrong term though, a polyamorous relations is more correct), Talothral with Sorcerer did it in my opinion, and Perverteer too with Sisterly Lust ( the moment Reachel confronted MC after finding it with the other sister Bella was very good), and even then the end was a little weak though it was better than most because it's difficult to believe in it.
And Caribdis in Eternum is working good premises for it, we will see what happen, one thing is certain harem/poly are just a fantasy they are the less realistic things possible, and that what's make them interesting to me, providing that the story is good enough to let the suspension of disbelief let pass the fact that too any women loving the same man is a weird thing as you said.
To enjoy a harem game you really need to not think too much and take it as lightly as possible or else it will not work, that's what I do and that's why I play very few of them to the full extent.

I just hope the solo route are good and romantic and it doesn't seem like they were added in at the last minute

 

[Takkatakka]

For everyone who don't know yet : we've already established that the harem path is 300% the canon path in Eternum.

I'm aware of that. What I'm saying is: I hope it will work out better than the ending of OiaLT, because there it felt very rushed and didn't really make sense - at least for some of the characters like the teacher.

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

I'm aware of that. What I'm saying is: I hope it will work out better than the ending of OiaLT, because there it felt very rushed and didn't really make sense - at least for some of the characters like the teacher.

It did not make sense for some characters like the teacher and the mom because they were not prioritized in the main story. They were not involved with the main plot investigating Astaroth and they did not have scenes with the other girls. While the harem reveal was abrupt it did not feel out of place for Lauren, Judie and Aiko to be in the MC's harem because they had scenes together, they were tied to the main plot and so on.

Eternum does not have that problem. All the girls are involved this time, there are a lot of scenes with more than 1 girl together, there are even group scenes like the banking heist (and it looks like there will be another group scene in the next update from the previews). I think it is a lot easier to make this game a harem than once in a lifetime.

Sure there are some unrealistic things like the girls not being jealous, no relationship drama, a group of supermodel tier girls all being interested in one man etc but thats just the nature of harem games and it does not impact my enjoyment of the game in any way. There are far more unrealistic things in the game after all such as the following:

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A bunch of supermodels throwing themselves at you and agreeing to be in a harem seems extremely realistic in comparison

 

[Walter Victor]

Isn't it interesting that some people who readily accept the fantastic premise of this game itself, find accepting polyamory/harem troublesome?

Not wrong, just interesting.

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

Isn't it interesting that some people who readily accept the fantastic premise of this game itself, find accepting polyamory/harem troublesome?

Not wrong, just interesting.

I think it is less about accepting it and more about personal preferences/biases. Nothing wrong with that of course. People like what they like.

It only becomes a problem when people try to push the developer to change the game based on their preferences and that is not what is happening here.

 

[Son of Durin]

But, no, you're not going to get situations where if you romance Girl A, she marries you, if you don't, she joins a convent or commits suicide or kills your puppy or some other path that completely changes the story. I say, thank goodness!

Unless it's Michaela (sp?): she'll drug you, tie you down naked, get you up, mount you, and just as you're really getting into and about to blow, pinch you off and leave you bleeding and emasculated.

 

[Son of Durin]

Ahh! You want to be able to remove a girl completely from the MC's experience if he's not on a romantic path with her.

I don't really know of games that do that. They may become friends or enemies, but not ghosts, unless they actually do die.

I'm afraid I'm not interested in what you're looking for. But that's on me. Carry on.

He seeks the power of Thanos. We must call upon the Avengers to neutralize this threat.

 

[Takkatakka]

Eternum does not have that problem.

So far it hasn't and I hope it stays that way, yes.

 

[ArDZer]

Unless it's Michaela (sp?): she'll drug you, tie you down naked, get you up, mount you, and just as you're really getting into and about to blow, pinch you off and leave you bleeding and emasculated.

I say that's a scenario that could happen to Chang if he pisses off Michaela for a very specific reason.

 

[☾♄คгφη]

I cant comment on the relationships part because I'm biased monogamy is in my blood

but it's always weird in these games that all the girls react to it the same way

girls are supposed to have different personalities but they're all okay with him being with other women

you expect me to believe that out of all these women, none of them feel jealousy

or anger

but again I'm biased because monogamy is in my blood and it's the only way I play

monogamy for life

I respect your opinion, but being monogamous in a game where you have the possibility of a harem is like when you go to a party at 7 o'clock in the evening and go home after 30 minutes... Basically you lose 80% of the content.

in addition, we are talking about a universe in which you must be able to enjoy what you have. If the partners were against the polygamous relationship, you would not be able to enjoy the same experience in the game.

The purpose of a game is to detach yourself from reality. If you want the experience to be as close to reality as possible, then it would be a simulation and not a game.

Unless it's Michaela (sp?): she'll drug you, tie you down naked, get you up, mount you, and just as you're really getting into and about to blow, pinch you off and leave you bleeding and emasculated.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I respect your opinion, but being monogamous in a game where you have the possibility of a harem is like when you go to a party at 7 o'clock in the evening and go home after 30 minutes... Basically you lose 80% of the content.

in addition, we are talking about a universe in which you must be able to enjoy what you have. If the partners were against the polygamous relationship, you would not be able to enjoy the same experience in the game.

The purpose of a game is to detach yourself from reality. If you want the experience to be as close to reality as possible, then it would be a simulation and not a game.




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I get what you are saying brother but that's how I enjoy the game I

I don't care about missing out on content

I know it's weird and strange

but for me, I find the monogamy Route 100 times more fulfilling

I don't mind if a game has a harem as an option it's just it doesn't make me happy

I understand your point it just doesn't apply to me because I'm not made like that

I guess for whatever reason I'm different

 

[Dragon59]

Something that both of you seems to not grasp completely ( and it's understandable if you don't have that mindset in real life) is that the MC can say to Annie he had a crush on her for the long time and, at the same time, he can romance Nancy, Dalia and the other girls without finding it strange, because the romantic feelings coexist in his mind without causing him doubt or restraining his actions.
When he's with Annie in that moment only her is important to him, but the moment he's with Nancy or the other girls the same thing happen.
This doesn't mean he's faking love for Annie, or he's compartmentalizing, he just truly love all of them at the same time, and that's what clash with your own ability to read the situation, because you didn't experienced that irl, you can't really accept that completely that's why at a certain point you have issues with it.

Very true. The literal meaning of polyamory (ignoring relationship patterns common in the community for now) is having the capacity to love more than one person.

We aren't educated to polyamorous relationships, our society is constantly focused on prioritizing the monogamy instead ( I don't want to list all the various influences that concur to create this mindset, religions, families, etc etc, this is not the right place to talk exhaustively of this), so as much as we try to evade it with these games, we always find the MC somewhat of a cheater consciously or not.

That's why many of my games will have polyamorous characters. It's what I know, so it is what I'll write about.

Especially when in the story he's not being honest and upfront saying to the girls that he want an open relationship, but to his partial justification Orion at this point of the story is still living in the moment not really thinking to settle it, as a figure of speech the soil is being prepared ( see the jealousy between Dalia and Penelope where Orion is present, Penelope saying to Nova he likes Orion and her realizing she have a crush on him, Dalia and Alex talking about guys they like, I think Nancy already suspect something like it happened with Carla in OIAL and the other hints about it), for when the times of confrontation will happen, but it's still early to see that.
This time Caribdis is writing the story way better than in OIAL imho, he's slowly building the moment where everything will be in day broad daylights and things will be settled ( and also where he need to have the girls in love with him and open to accept sharing him).

That is my hope. Right now, he's not saying it. Ethically, he should have been more up front, but the fact that all the women are bonding with each other gives me hope.

Of course this is only my point of view, but I think this is what happening to you, it's not simple to really believe in real love when you have it with more that one girl, but this is the paradox with polyamorus/harem games you either accept it as true or else you will have problems accepting it completely.

Yes, as you said before, we are taught in the society to look for The One, the Soulmate. Much like how the number of "out" LGB individuals has increased as more of society has accepted them, I see much more polyamorous and Relationship Anarchists among the younger generations.

Yeah, the "problem" is, that in the real world, most women probably wouldn't be too okay with a guy that comes on to them and pretty much moves into a position to start a committed relationship while doing the same with 5 or so other women as well.

True. in the modern context, a polyamorous "polycule" makes more sense to me than a more traditional harem or polygynous marriage. The polyamory movement has always been more female-centric, with women being the movers and shakers in the community.

Just as in OiaLT were everybody somehow was just okay with it and when you have characters that are otherwise written believable and well than it is a bit harsh to swallow the "oh, they are all just okay with it" pill if indeed that is the part we are going.

My own polyamorous approach has always been to encourage my lovers to get to know and respect each other, to become friends if possible. The fact that the women of Eternum are bonding with each other bodes well from my point of view.

So, we have to see what happens when the "bomb goes off" and how the different characters react. I hope it will not simply be an "I'm okay with it" kinda reaction.

If there must be a "bomb," I expect some of the women will balk, but others will talk to them and things will improve. Realistically, in any case, some would accept and some would reject, but I think we need all of the "Seven Sisters" on board by the end.

And about visiting the servers without the girl: That is just not possible. It would mean writing a parallel story (why would the MC even be in there without one of the girls asking to meet him there) and all of the pictures would have to be changed and rendered again...that would just be tons of additional work for little benefit.

Definitely! Too much work for little benefit, especially since it seems that appeasing a few would delay the rest of us.

Agreed, but as I said, imho, it's a cultural issue first and foremost in real life and it can reflect on how you perceive a fictional work that goes against it.
If you are accustomed by everything around you to see polyamorous relations as wrong, and be frowned upon and considering all the other psychological pressure to get your mindset on the monogamy as the only positive value, you will get that issue ( and girls and women are especially forced to undergo that from young age).

Yes, my son grew up with a mother and two father figures (one of who had a long term partner, the other (me) had a few whom he dated). Having three adults in the home that were looking out for him made him a very confident man, who is polyamorous along with his wife. Exposure to new concepts at a young age can make all the difference.

I'm not saying I'm a pro polyamorous at all costs, but I think that a big role in making these themes popular is that we are conditioned to see them as taboo, and it's in human nature to be curious about it, and these games can offer at least a taste of it without having to do that in real life, only one thing is never made clear enough for me in these works ( or it's rarely done).

Ah... I remember the "polyamorous in all situations." These people saw polyamory as the simple solution to all of literature's romantic triangles. Mary Zimmer Bradley had that in her book Mists of Avalon. The thing is, polyamory isn't for everyone. It is not a simple solution for cheating. People who cheat in monogamous relationships are still prone to cheating in polyamorous relationships (by ignoring agreements and boundaries). It's not a cure-all.

Being in a polyamorous relation doesn't mean you're granted to have sex with as many women as you want without having nothing to fear, instead is committing yourself to an even more engaging role, because you need to love ( and when I write love I mean love, respect, treat them good and make all the women you are in a relations with feel really loved and respected) women like you will do in a monogamous relation.

You're giving away some of the plot of my polyamorous story! j/k
A polyamorous woman once wrote Polyamoy: Twice the fun, but three times the work. I think it's more of a factorial relationship. Fun=Partners^2, Work=Partners^3.

Talothral with his works made a very good work on that in my opinion.
And yes, that was one of the weak parts of OIAL for me as well ( but I think it was due to it being Caribdis first work so he payed a little bit of inexperience) I agree, something that I'm seeing treated way better in Eternum, he's more careful and is planning everything with a good balance as of right now, at least to me.
We need to see when the time comes what he planned, but I think it would be good, I don't think there would be too unnecessary drama, but the right amount of it and a good ending to everything.

I really have to try OiaL.