VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.8.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[Dragon59]

Realistically, yeah, an harem in a modern era is absurd. But you are ignoring two facts, being the first that this is not a realistic story and second that, even rare and absurd, harem relationships have been existing and exist in the real world. How is gonna do it Caribdis is a good question, but is not something impossible, only extremely rare.

As I said above, in my mind, some sort of ethical non-monogamy, whether poly or poly adjacent, make more sense in a modern world than traditional harems or polygynous marriage.

In my opinion something is gonna happen to the MC just after the bomb drop up, maybe being kidnaped or seriously injured, the girls are gonna ignore the harem problem and they will focus on MC's problem, and then with more time just accept that the harem is not a bad situation, just strange, and maybe even hot (Caribdis is giving clues about threesomes and more, maybe my dreaming threesome MC-Dalia-Penny is impossible, but MC-Penny-Nova is gonna happen 100% sure).
But even with that I really expect Alex kicking the MC in the balls for that, and maybe Dalia chasing him for the house when she finds he's been with Penny and with her at the same time. I want drama, but the funny one.

That's actually a good idea, IMHO. One way for them to realize their bond among them is almost as important as their bond to Orion.

I cant comment on the relationships part because I'm biased monogamy is in my blood
but it's always weird in these games that all the girls react to it the same way
girls are supposed to have different personalities but they're all okay with him being with other women
you expect me to believe that out of all these women, none of them feel jealousy
or anger
but again I'm biased because monogamy is in my blood and it's the only way I play
monogamy for life

Yes, polyamory isn't for everyone.

That's cool, I'm with you in real life, polyamorous relationship is not for me, the cons are bigger than the pros, but in this type of games the idea of making every girl happy is always a plus for me.

Yes. I've come to realize that I have no time for the manipulative MC's in the games. I'm much happier playing characters who genuinely care for all of his partners and wants what is best for them, unlike certain others *COUGH*Max*COUGH*

There is a difference between having a realistic story and having realistic characters. You absolutely don't need the former (and the game doesn't have a realistic story), but you absolutely need the latter for the audience/players/readers (depending on the medium) to be able to connect to your story. And so far the game delivered on realistic feeling characters, that is why it works so well.

Very true. I've seen a lot of games/stories where the characters are nothing more than mannequins going through the motions. No sense of them being real characters.

So when all of those characters would somehow and without any conflict just be okay with being part of a harem, that would be weird, because that isn't how most real people would react. Also - so far - it very much seems like relationships in the world of Eternum (the VN, not the in-game...game) seem to follow pretty much the same rules and conventions as they do in our real world, meaning people have monogamous relationships, everything else would be viewed as cheating or having an affair.

The fact that he has not yet told the women he's in relationship with that he's not monogamous, portends some future conflict. I'm reminded how in Grandma's House, Thomas is VERY clear with all the women of his life. Usually before they have PiV sex, which is very important.

It is a harem game - it is not meant to be realistic. With almost any harem game I play wish fulfillment and suspension of disbelief is a given so no jealousy etc is exactly the kind of reaction I expect from the girls. And there is nothing wrong with that. You have both realistic games and harem games like this. They are just two different types of games that take different approaches. One type is not better than the other type and all games being the exact same and having the same approach would be boring as fuck so as far as I am concerned diversity and having different types of games is good for AVNs as a whole.

I agree. At one point, I had three partners simultaneously. That's probably my "poly-saturation" point. To have seven or eight would be fantasy (though I knew some women who had more than six men and women in their "polycule."

I also think that this game is written to be a harem game and both the game and the dev are pretty upfront about it so having incorrect expectations might just disappoint you. Rejecting a subset of girls or even all of them is an option but if you are going into the game with the expectation that there will be fully fleshed out paths with vastly different content from the harem option I think you will only end up disappointing yourself. Personally I think the not selecting certain girls routes is just going to be a 'skip content' option and there might be a separate solo girl ending similar to once in a lifetime. But that's about it. I dont think you will get anything more.

True, there is no chance of adding One True Love content if you reject the others. It will just make for a rather empty game.

Oh boy there's too much to answer but talking about monogamy in Eternum is going to give me eczema so I'll be brief on that one, just a little quote and back to waiting for that storm to pass.

For everyone who don't know yet : we've already established that the harem path is 300% the canon path in Eternum. We know that because first OiAL is a harem, and second there's a clear build up to that (thinking about threesomes, Penny and Nova, the fun banter between Dalia and Penny, Nancy being suspicious of Annie who almost spill the beans, or just straight up the fact that we just miss some scenes by ignoring a girl...). So far, Caribdis seems to build up to it pretty nicely. This is not some "forced harem" like some devs try to do, Eternum is meant to go this way. Honestly I think this is one of the reason it's so good : not only all the girls are great and unique, but also you know you don't have to choose because Caribdis is going to make them accept it slowly and still keep the character's reactions realistic and not contradictory.

As for it being realistic, it is in the context of the story and the characters so far (it's called consistancy).

I think that one thing that we find in the "cheating harem" games is that even though Orion hasn't explicitly stated that he's in multiple relationships, it should be pretty clear to all the women involved that he has strong bonds with the others. All it will take, for good or ill, is for one woman to be a bit more observant. The evidence is right in front of them.
[
So yeah you can keep talking about your monogamous playthroughs, but just don't go and think that the harem path is not the canon path now.

If you want monogamy, this is the wrong game for it. Harem will always find a way in Eternum.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I agree that's why I said that about it being strange, it's not easy to write a good harem story because it's not realistic nowadays ( exception exist of course, but that's what they are) to have so many women having a committed relations with a man, not something casual but wanting to share him for the rest of their lives.
Like I wrote few authors made a somewhat realistic approach to a real harem ( it's a wrong term though, a polyamorous relations is more correct), Talothral with Sorcerer did it in my opinion, and Perverteer too with Sisterly Lust ( the moment Reachel confronted MC after finding it with the other sister Bella was very good), and even then the end was a little weak though it was better than most because it's difficult to believe in it.

I'll have to look up their work.

And Caribdis in Eternum is working good premises for it, we will see what happen, one thing is certain harem/poly are just a fantasy they are the less realistic things possible, and that what's make them interesting to me, providing that the story is good enough to let the suspension of disbelief let pass the fact that too many women loving the same man is a weird thing as you said.
To enjoy a harem game you really need to not think too much and take it as lightly as possible or else it will not work, that's what I do and that's why I play very few of them to the full extent.

It was the way most developers handled multiple relationships that first inspired me to start my own projects.

Isn't it interesting that some people who readily accept the fantastic premise of this game itself, find accepting polyamory/harem troublesome?

Not wrong, just interesting.

I think everyone has their unique "blind spot" in these matters.

 

[Walter Victor]

I get what you are saying brother but that's how I enjoy the game I

I don't care about missing out on content

I know it's weird and strange

but for me, I find the monogamy Route 100 times more fulfilling

I don't mind if a game has a harem as an option it's just it doesn't make me happy

I understand your point it just doesn't apply to me because I'm not made like that

I guess for whatever reason I'm different

Being different is not a problem. We are all different in one way or another. And just about everyone on F95 could be considered weird and strange. [I know I am. That's why I'm here, after all.]

Some people, though, seem bound and determined to foist their own differences on others. [I do NOT include you in that set of people.]

 

[Son of Durin]

Being different is not a problem. We are all different in one way or another. And just about everyone on F95 could be considered weird and strange. [I know I am. That's why I'm here, after all.]

Some people, though, seem bound and determined to foist their own differences on others. [I do NOT include you in that set of people.]

True - we're all different...

Spoiler: Some are just more different than most...

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[PervyParadox]

View attachment 2566187

I was totally picturing that scene when I wrote that but was too lazy to open gimp and make a thing, so thank you for that

 

[camube]

He seeks the power of Thanos. We must call upon the Avengers to neutralize this threat.

That reply misread my post completely.
And I addressed it too

If you misread my post too, here's the reply post
https://f95zone.to/threads/eternum-v0-5-public-caribdis.93340/page-611#post-10593716

and I did address their misunderstanding in the following
https://f95zone.to/threads/eternum-v0-5-public-caribdis.93340/post-10593759

Anyway, yeah.

 

[camube]

Something that both of you seems to not grasp completely ( and it's understandable if you don't have that mindset in real life) is that the MC can say to Annie he had a crush on her for the long time and, at the same time, he can romance Nancy, Dalia and the other girls without finding it strange, because the romantic feelings coexist in his mind without causing him doubt or restraining his actions.
When he's with Annie in that moment only her is important to him, but the moment he's with Nancy or the other girls the same thing happen.
This doesn't mean he's faking love for Annie, or he's compartmentalizing, he just truly love all of them at the same time, and that's what clash with your own ability to read the situation, because you didn't experienced that irl, you can't really accept that completely that's why at a certain point you have issues with it.
We aren't educated to polyamorous relationships, our society is constantly focused on prioritizing the monogamy instead ( I don't want to list all the various influences that concur to create this mindset, religions, families, etc etc, this is not the right place to talk exhaustively of this), so as much as we try to evade it with these games, we always find the MC somewhat of a cheater consciously or not.
Especially when in the story he's not being honest and upfront saying to the girls that he want an open relationship, but to his partial justification Orion at this point of the story is still living in the moment not really thinking to settle it, as a figure of speech the soil is being prepared ( see the jealousy between Dalia and Penelope where Orion is present, Penelope saying to Nova he likes Orion and her realizing she have a crush on him, Dalia and Alex talking about guys they like, I think Nancy already suspect something like it happened with Carla in OIAL and the other hints about it), for when the times of confrontation will happen, but it's still early to see that.
This time Caribdis is writing the story way better than in OIAL imho, he's slowly building the moment where everything will be in day broad daylights and things will be settled ( and also where he need to have the girls in love with him and open to accept sharing him).
About the possibility to visit different servers even without being on a girls path, well that's a bit of a slippery rope, because that would mean to have a more open world where the MC can roam Eternum freely, and honestly I think that would subtract time to the development of both the main story and also romancing the girls ( especially considering already how much big is the game as is), since he don't need to get there to farm money or other objects like it happen on other games to advance the story ( like in NLT games for example).
Of course this is only my point of view, but I think this is what happening to you, it's not simple to really believe in real love when you have it with more that one girl, but this is the paradox with polyamorus/harem games you either accept it as true or else you will have problems accepting it completely.

To me, it's not about "harem or no harem". That's just the game's construct.

It's how the MC's dialogue is written.
If you've played Bare Witness, off the top of my head, MC's dialogue there makes more sense than Eternum's MC's script. That's all.
That's the "a bit immersion-breaking" part to me.

I agree with whoever posted that "not playing harem in eternum is like going home after the party" though.
Unlike say, Projekt Passion where you still get to see events, you miss story-related tidbits and events if you don't do Harem Path on Eternum.
Players gotta do it or else they miss story events like Andromeda Space Resort, which players dont get if they aren't on Annie's Path.
So the choice of Harem or Not Harem is even more of an illusion.
That stuff is minor to me though.

It's the MC's script that is a bit weak.
Action's great though! And the plot is pretty interesting.
Action's really great! I want more of that Ogygia server. It still stick in my mind even days later by now.

 

[inquisitorhawke96]

What happened to Dalia's hair? Why did they change her hairstyle?

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

What happened to Dalia's hair? Why did they change her hairstyle?

Nothing. The girls just change their hairstyles with different scenes - I quite like it. Dalia has had 3 hairstyles and there might be more in future updates.

 

[Dylan741]

To me, it's not about "harem or no harem". That's just the game's construct.

It's how the MC's dialogue is written.
If you've played Bare Witness, off the top of my head, MC's dialogue there makes more sense than Eternum's MC's script. That's all.
That's the "a bit immersion-breaking" part to me.

I agree with whoever posted that "not playing harem in eternum is like going home after the party" though.
Unlike say, Projekt Passion where you still get to see events, you miss story-related tidbits and events if you don't do Harem Path on Eternum.
Players gotta do it or else they miss story events like Andromeda Space Resort, which players dont get if they aren't on Annie's Path.
So the choice of Harem or Not Harem is even more of an illusion.
That stuff is minor to me though.

It's the MC's script that is a bit weak.
Action's great though! And the plot is pretty interesting.
Action's really great! I want more of that Ogygia server. It still stick in my mind even days later by now.

I agree to disagree in this case, I mean both Eternum and Bare Witness have great parts of the story and other that are weak, as always happen with every work of fiction when you can't always have the best in the flow of the entire story but I don't find one best respect to the other, but it's a matter of personal point of view, imho.
The difference between them it's the concept, they honestly are so different that, to me personally, it's even difficult to compare them, BW is not constructed as Eternum, not for the harem point of view, nor on the basic structure and that influence how the story and the characters are written.
In the case of Bare Witness MC he's forced to keep his dark secret from the others (and the girls) because he's the witness of a tragedy and he's somewhat forced to become an adult before the others ( giving what he endured he's somewhat older than appear), while Orion is a teenager that is pushed to live an incredible adventure all of a sudden, full of perils to face and with hints that he's somehow a hero of sort on an adventure ( even though some flashbacks are hinting that he's not a simple teenager).
The first is almost an already matured adult, the second not and he's acting like one while is slowly getting there.
But as I said it only my personal opinion, so while we see things differently I liked yours because you offered an interesting point of view.

 

[M0ckingB1rd]

I don't know what to add to the recent fetish shenanigans going on in the last few days, when the game was clearly advertised and tagged as a harem game in the first place. I also see the appeal of an IC patch, but I wouldn't hold my breath until the game is close to completion. You could always do it yourself if you feel the need to.

So with Steam out of the picture, there is still the chance to make money out of NFTs. (I don't think they are still relevant)

All jokes aside, I'm really hyped for the new version and I would trade a lot of things with someone from the future to already play the finished version.

What happened to Dalia's hair? Why did they change her hairstyle?

I really hope he sticks to the ponytail hairstyle. (If the sneak peaks are to believe, he did)
Because it fits her personality way more than hiding half of her face.

On another note. I'm really interested in the way he plans to include his extra help.
The patreon goal was reached around the v0.5 release but the same SubscribeStar goal sits at 77%.
I'm wondering when we will hear about his plans of expansion.

 

[browse_man]

I cant comment on the relationships part because I'm biased monogamy is in my blood

but it's always weird in these games that all the girls react to it the same way

girls are supposed to have different personalities but they're all okay with him being with other women

you expect me to believe that out of all these women, none of them feel jealousy

or anger

but again I'm biased because monogamy is in my blood and it's the only way I play

monogamy for life

I think part of this is also having to understand that Eternum and OIAL are games with harem endings in mind, it's very noticeable that if you select one route and one route only, it's almost as if you're playing 1/6th of the entire game.

This is obviously different from more "realistic" games like Leap of Faith where monogamy is the way for majority of the girls and any polyamory is restricted to just 2 of the LIs.

 

[Pitrik]

 

[M0ckingB1rd]

It is in this devlog - you can access it if you are a patron:

You must be registered to see the links

If you are not a patron, consider supporting if you can. The developer is hard working, consistent and has a strong vision for his game. He is one of the few developers I feel comfortable supporting at a higher tier and it would be great to see his vision executed properly - more funding can help him achieve his vision without making compromises.

Thank you for your inside, I'am still planning to be a supporter of his work in the future.

Caribdis keep on rocking, you got this dude.

But I still wish the genereal audience would get a peak behind the curtain. (I'm in incognitomode in these shady sides of the Internet so I'm not even locked into my patreon account)

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

Thank you for your inside, I'am still planning to be a supporter of his work in the future.

Caribdis keep on rocking, you got this dude.

But I still wish the genereal audience would get a peak behind the curtain. (I'm in incognitomode in these shady sides of the Internet so I'm not even locked into my patreon account)

The post says someone has been hired to help with animations which is among the more time consuming aspects of the development work.

I recommend supporting if/when you can. It is a really well made game. It is a real shame this cannot be put on steam.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Being different is not a problem. We are all different in one way or another. And just about everyone on F95 could be considered weird and strange. [I know I am. That's why I'm here, after all.]

Some people, though, seem bound and determined to foist their own differences on others. [I do NOT include you in that set of people.]

 

[dolfe67]

I'm also of the opinion that missing some events if you're not on a girl's love path is a shame. Why bother giving a choice to refuse a girl then, just write a linear harem story.

Could work with not much work, a few dialogue changes and minus sex scenes. With Annie they could still go on the server as friends. You miss quite a big part with the alien invasion and other girls helping. Same with Dalia you miss her sport event

 

[Rome5555555]

What happened to Dalia's hair? Why did they change her hairstyle?

Everything is like in life, I went to cut my hair unsuccessfully, here is a new hairstyle

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

I'm also of the opinion that missing some events if you're not on a girl's love path is a shame. Why bother giving a choice to refuse a girl then, just write a linear harem story.

Could work with not much work, a few dialogue changes and minus sex scenes. With Annie they could still go on the server as friends. You miss quite a big part with the alien invasion and other girls helping. Same with Dalia you miss her sport event

I dont think we are in a position to comment on how much work it could be. The number of main girls is a LOT and the branching could go out of hand. Then there is also the way in which break ups happen. You can lose penny's path in a couple of ways - you can simply not do the photoshoot with her (in which case being friends makes sense) or you can be a piece of shit and go for Regina (in which case you break her heart). If it is the latter, she would want nothing to do with you. Dalia also has choices like this - you can lose her path by just not wanting to work out with her or you can lose it by telling her password in which case she loses trust in you and wants nothing to do with you. This adds another layer of branching. And I am sure there is a lot more I am not even thinking about. A game is more than just renders you also have dialogue/code which can be time consuming and having a messy codebase might even impact future updates.

This is first and foremost a harem game and I think the current approach is fine - it makes things clear to people playing what type of game it is. It also reduces complexity of maintaining a bunch of branches. And I am sure the developer has given some thought to this as well - the gameplay loop of this game is to reward players with story content if they make the right choices and I think that is totally fine. I dont see it as giving players the choice to refuse girls as much as rewarding players for making the right choices.

The game even explicitly says it in the intro - it is deliberately designed such that you are expected to roll back if you fucked up somewhere to keep a girl's path.

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This game has its own identity and if you want to play a single girl route this game is just not targeted towards players like you and there is nothing wrong with that. Having a strong identity is a part of what makes great games stand out. Pale Carnations which you have in your signature is another good example of this. You have the brothel, the carnations and the horrible stuff happening to them and so it is not a game for people who like wholesome vanilla games and that's totally fine. The brothel is a part of the game and if you dont like to see the nasty things that happen to the carnations then its just too bad but the game is not for you. I think of this game in a similar way - it is primarily a harem game and if you dont like harem then that's just too bad but the game should not change what it is just because of your tastes.

 

[Prolko]

I dont think we are in a position to comment on how much work it could be. The number of main girls is a LOT and the branching could go out of hand. Then there is also the way in which break ups happen. You can lose penny's path in a couple of ways - you can simply not do the photoshoot with her (in which case being friends makes sense) or you can be a piece of shit and go for Regina (in which case you break her heart). If it is the latter, she would want nothing to do with you. Dalia also has choices like this - you can lose her path by just not wanting to work out with her or you can lose it by telling her password in which case she loses trust in you and wants nothing to do with you. This adds another layer of branching. And I am sure there is a lot more I am not even thinking about. A game is more than just renders you also have dialogue/code which can be time consuming and having a messy codebase might even impact future updates.

This is first and foremost a harem game and I think the current approach is fine - it makes things clear to people playing what type of game it is. It also reduces complexity of maintaining a bunch of branches. And I am sure the developer has given some thought to this as well - the gameplay loop of this game is to reward players with story content if they make the right choices and I think that is totally fine. I dont see it as giving players the choice to refuse girls as much as rewarding players for making the right choices.

The game even explicitly says it in the intro - it is deliberately designed such that you are expected to roll back if you fucked up somewhere to keep a girl's path.

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This game has its own identity and if you want to play a single girl route this game is just not targeted towards players like you and there is nothing wrong with that. Having a strong identity is a part of what makes great games stand out. Pale Carnations which you have in your signature is another good example of this. You have the brothel, the carnations and the horrible stuff happening to them and so it is not a game for people who like wholesome vanilla games and that's totally fine. The brothel is a part of the game and if you dont like to see the nasty things that happen to the carnations then its just too bad but the game is not for you. I think of this game in a similar way - it is primarily a harem game and if you dont like harem then that's just too bad but the game should not change what it is just because of your tastes.

I've agreed with everything you said except for that last part. While you are right to say that this is a harem-focused game, that doesn't mean it can't take criticism for its one-girl gameplay. The guy you quoted said that it'd be better if the Dev made little changes and while none of us can know how much work it would take, he is not wrong to say that. He just thought that feature would've made the game better and it would probably attract more players/more patrons. I'm not saying I agree with him since I'm fully interested in the harem path and nothing else so more branches would just mean waste of time for me, but I understand the point. You saying ''this isn't a game for you'' just lets everything off the hook for criticisms. You could literally say this about anything. America is bad for the free guns policy? Not a country for you! Putin is bad for the war? Not a country for you! This just cancels all criticisms and while it may seem good, it is actually bad for Cari because he can't see what players think and what might be done to improve the game.

 

[Deleted member 5730975]

I've agreed with everything you said except for that last part. While you are right to say that this is a harem-focused game, that doesn't mean it can't take criticism for its one-girl gameplay. The guy you quoted said that it'd be better if the Dev made little changes and while none of us can know how much work it would take, he is not wrong to say that. He just thought that feature would've made the game better and it would probably attract more players/more patrons. I'm not saying I agree with him since I'm fully interested in the harem path and nothing else so more branches would just mean waste of time for me, but I understand the point. You saying ''this isn't a game for you'' just lets everything off the hook for criticisms. You could literally say this about anything. America is bad for the free guns policy? Not a country for you! Putin is bad for the war? Not a country for you! This just cancels all criticisms and while it may seem good, it is actually bad for Cari because he can't see what players think and what might be done to improve the game.

No what I am saying is it looks to me like the developer has already put in some thought about this and has deliberately designed the game the way it is right now. If it was something that was not considered by the dev then sure this is a fair point/suggestion. But I think it has been considered by the dev but he has chosen to do things differently (just look at the intro pics I posted in my comment). It is a different type of gameplay loop where it is less about choosing the girls and more about rewarding players for making the right choice. And there is nothing wrong with that decision in my opinion. If it is a deliberate decision made by the dev and you still have a problem with it then I think the game is not for you.

As for criticism, I am all for it. This is a discussion forum and people should feel free to post their opinion and criticize as much as they want provided it is respectful. My post is just my 2 cents on that particular piece of criticism I am not trying to discourage it. Also let's please not bring politics into the conversation. No offense but I think the comparisons you have made are a bit silly - this is a porn game that is very different from serious issues irl. There is no need to talk about guns, the war in ukraine and other real world issues when discussing design choices in a porn game.