VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.9.4] [Caribdis]

[quorkboy]

So was OIALT, but Cari still did a Stabby Mike's death fakeout. And I agree with the sentiment that we ALL know none of the LIs' death will be permanent, but I totally wouldn't put it past Caribdis to do it. And tbf, it could just as likely be Chang who's gonna get clipped, but because Caribdis already fake-killed the "best friend" character in his previous game, I suspect he'll step it up this time. It's all speculation of course, but I doubt THIS is the reason why he WOULDN'T do it.

A fake out and an actual death are not the same thing. Using one to create suspense is not the same as using the other for nothing more than an emotional effect.

I think a shift in motivation from Orion's altruistic drive to help the Eternum NPC and uncover Ulysses' wrongdoing, to a more personal one like rescuing/avenging/finding a way to bring an LI back to life doesn't necessarily make it any less "natural" in terms of narrative. If anything, the conflict between personal and moral has already been teased during our meeting with the Founder during the dinner party with Alex, when he asked us if we were willing to sacrifice innocent lives to protect our loved ones. I think if Caribdis were to go ahead with the LIs' death fakeout, that one moment would be the biggest foreshadowing we have.

Granted, the struggle between personal and moral choices doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of an LI's death, maybe they're trapped and we have to sacrifice some NPCs to rescue them, or MAYBE, their "death" (or the NPCs' "death") will be determined by how we answered the Founder's question at the party, and then towards the end of the game we'll (hopefully) have the option to bring back whoever was dead.

Your choice is not remembered by the game (I see no variable set). I view that choice as the Founder messing with Orion. Trying to gauge what kind of person he is.

This doesn't mean Orion won't be put in a position to really make that choice. It could be foreshadowing a planned story event. If that happens, it will be narratively coherent, a callback to that scene. How will Orion behave when faced with a real choice vs. a hypothetical? This creates drama directly from the story. Any death which comes out of it follows from the drama. This is the kind of thing I mean when I say that a death should serve the narrative, not be there for the sake of drama.

It is a more interesting context for a possible death, and one I would find satisfying.

But it doesn't support the argument for a death as change in motivation. For it to work in that way, you'd need some reason for Orion's current motivation to be slipping. Which again would have to work with the story, not happen only so that the motivation switch can be tripped.

I'm just saying, there are ways to incorporate a character's death into the story without it being unnatural, especially after we have received such significant foreshadowing already.

I'm not disagreeing. In my opinion, the proposed reasons as previously presented are not good enough. You achieve those things through the story. If that logically leads to "this character dies", fine. But don't start with "a character dies so that this can happen in the story" when you have better reasons available, particularly when those better reasons are well established, or where death as a reason does not fit the tone of the story.

The story has existing scenarios for which a death could work, we don't need to insert others that don't fit as well.

 

[Master Peter Raven]

Some other people answered you, but there's also foreshadowing in 0.9 with Luna and the MC's conversation about what they would do if the other died (in the context of the movie they had watched). The MC says that if Luna died he'd lose his mind instantly, but Luna says that if the MC died she'd "join a necromancer cult" so that she could revive the MC, since surely in a world already so fantastical, there must be "at least one witch specializing in resurrections". There is also the MC saying that we'd never bring one of the girls with us into Eternum with our powers again, since it's simply too dangerous and that they could really die that way, but now going into Eternum with the implant is about the same risk, if not even riskier since you need to get to an exit portal, when with our powers we can act as the exit portal for them.

Thinking more specifically about Luna's phrasing of "join a necromancer cult", I'm replaying the game, and I completely forgot that in our initial dream where we see the "Lady" keep asking "Will you help us?", we're set in a church, a church that we later see at Warthogs with Luna and Penny. Luna tells us that there used to be a cult there, and that cults are allowed on Eternum as long as they aren't otherwise breaking the code of ethics, but this cult ended up forbidden and the praetorians turned the place inside out.

It's heavily implied that this cult was the Syndicate, especially adding the context of one of the praetorians asking "A member of the Syndicate?" to the praetorian that excommunicated Benjamin. From what we know about the Syndicate, they definitely seem to fit what one would call a "necromancer cult", and we have a nightmare when sleeping in class of waking up in a morgue, seeming as if we were a corpse that just woke up. There's a seeming-corpse next to us, that then gets up and is identified as "Lady" and again asks "Will you help us?" and then asks us if we would press a button if it meant there was a 1 in 7 chance of saving the love of our life, who is about to die, but a 6 in 7 chance of the button killing us.

This all would maybe seem to be foreshadowing our own death, but I feel like at this point we've already nearly died too much for that to really hit as hard, and combined with the stuff other people mentioned, and the cliffhanger of 0.9 clearly wanting us afraid for the girls' lives, I really feel like it's leading up to the death of one of the girls. Which in my mind would most likely be Annie, but it could well be a different girl too. It could maybe be that we would die with the girl together, getting that 6 in 7 chance of the button where we both die, and we would both become NPCs I guess. I'd worry perhaps though that the MC turning into an NPC or otherwise dying would restrict the plot too much, even if it would be exciting to see the rest of our girls show how competent they are even when we're not there.

(As an aside, that is something that I found kind of lacking in 0.9, the girls trying to track us down and not really getting anywhere. They were by no means incompetent, but I wish they would've gotten further. Nova was onto something, but clearly still very off the mark, though I suspect she's probably right that Hyril'ar plays some crucial role with the Eternum system. I didn't even need them to get close to finding Hyril'ar, they still could have advanced the plot/our known information another way, like maybe by tracking down Thanatos and finding what might've happened with him and where he went off to. But it's fine, it probably needed to be the way we saw because there's only so much narrative space.)

But beyond any foreshadowing, I do think that one of the girls becoming an NPC would make a lot of narrative sense. It would conjoin our emotional drive of caring about the girls with the narrative drive of freeing the NPCs. The MC and the girls do already care about the NPCs, and by now that plays a nominal role in our goal of acquiring the gems of doom, but that care for the NPCs ultimately remains secondary to our care for the girls and exploring our relationships and all that. But if that care for the girls becomes as well a care for the NPCs, then I think that would really drive the plot forward and really cement the transition into the endgame of the story.

To repeat----DO.NOT.TOUCH.ANNIE!!!

 

[Henchmen13]

Currently Orion and his faction are the only ones that aren't fully invested. Orion and most of the girls have school, whole Nancy has work. Even if they are focused on helping the NPCs this doesn't change that they have life outside of that, or at least some of them. Alex has her job and swimming on top of school, Penny has university and her Instagram, Nancy has works on top of house chores and her work as den mother. Point being that they have lives outside of all that, they can at any point just drop out and continue with their lives. If before death was "possible if Pretoria off them" now it's "guaranteed if someone kill them". Nancy would prefer to keep her daughters save rather than them be heroes, so i can imagine her telling them to drop out of the whole thing as not being worth it.

I can see the cliffhanger for 0.10 being possible death, in order push the whole team to be more focused everything and discard their normal lives. Alternative for removing the girls, at least temporary, is so Orion need to use some of his other allies. I can see Chang being brought to plan prison break, possibly participate in it from inside Eternum in order to save the girls (Luna making big impression on him and saying she must be protected). Maximo to help Nancy because he has stakes in the WRE remaining multi server faction that possibly pays him, Jerry because he is now friends with Orion, ect. I can see "assholes Orion" that didn't help his allies having to do the prison break alone and failing. There is also the shapeshift potion, which if not for hest like activity, will possibly be used near the end of the story to pretend to be Founder/William in order for Thanatos to hand over the gems without fight.

Point i am trying to make with all of the above. Is that death will make sense for the narrative, because we aren't just looking at story in normal sense. There's meta level, what with the time loop and the Syndicate/ Lady trying to get the perfect ending they want. There is also Coyote and how we traded "item that allows you to speak with the death".

Also, for killing LI i think it will be Nancy. She is the only one that isn't pregnant at the moment, she has made it so her daughters were on board for the harem (with all LI now having comments at one point or another that they don't mind Sharing with even Luna seeing vision and not stopping spending time with Orion), she was leader of WRE which will probably fall apart or maybe Orion will take leadership role to organized players and NPCs, but once again she loves her daughters. Possibly enough that, the 0.9 cliffhanger about the implant killing people, she decides to keep her daughters away from it. Her being killed may lead to the two of them deciding to focus on bringing their mother back / getting revenge, while also removing concern parent whose desire to protect their kids can cause the team to splinter.

 

[Krytax123]

Luna didn’t see a happy ending. She saw what we think was a threesome between her, Annie and Orion. Since we got Luna’s solo scene, there’s a possibility it could happen before the cliffhanger

Yeah i dont think that, a threesome was maybe part of it but i think she saw the "Happy end" already

 

[Master Peter Raven]

So here's the thing. I'm on disability, which means I am limited in what I can do to a degree. Meaning I don't work and have all the time in the world to sit and play AVN's. Which explains why I have downloaded over 400 of them. Yeah, I know. But here's the problem. I just finshed the update for 'Eternum', and after clicking the QUIT button, I look at the list of games I have to play, and for days afterwards, all I can think is.....MEH. (Have the same issue with Pale Carnations, just to a lesser degree). I'm telling you, 'Eternum' spoils your ass.

 

[Master Peter Raven]

Currently Orion and his faction are the only ones that aren't fully invested. Orion and most of the girls have school, whole Nancy has work. Even if they are focused on helping the NPCs this doesn't change that they have life outside of that, or at least some of them. Alex has her job and swimming on top of school, Penny has university and her Instagram, Nancy has works on top of house chores and her work as den mother. Point being that they have lives outside of all that, they can at any point just drop out and continue with their lives. If before death was "possible if Pretoria off them" now it's "guaranteed if someone kill them". Nancy would prefer to keep her daughters save rather than them be heroes, so i can imagine her telling them to drop out of the whole thing as not being worth it.

I can see the cliffhanger for 0.10 being possible death, in order push the whole team to be more focused everything and discard their normal lives. Alternative for removing the girls, at least temporary, is so Orion need to use some of his other allies. I can see Chang being brought to plan prison break, possibly participate in it from inside Eternum in order to save the girls (Luna making big impression on him and saying she must be protected). Maximo to help Nancy because he has stakes in the WRE remaining multi server faction that possibly pays him, Jerry because he is now friends with Orion, ect. I can see "assholes Orion" that didn't help his allies having to do the prison break alone and failing. There is also the shapeshift potion, which if not for hest like activity, will possibly be used near the end of the story to pretend to be Founder/William in order for Thanatos to hand over the gems without fight.

Point i am trying to make with all of the above. Is that death will make sense for the narrative, because we aren't just looking at story in normal sense. There's meta level, what with the time loop and the Syndicate/ Lady trying to get the perfect ending they want. There is also Coyote and how we traded "item that allows you to speak with the death".

Also, for killing LI i think it will be Nancy. She is the only one that isn't pregnant at the moment, she has made it so her daughters were on board for the harem (with all LI now having comments at one point or another that they don't mind Sharing with even Luna seeing vision and not stopping spending time with Orion), she was leader of WRE which will probably fall apart or maybe Orion will take leadership role to organized players and NPCs, but once again she loves her daughters. Possibly enough that, the 0.9 cliffhanger about the implant killing people, she decides to keep her daughters away from it. Her being killed may lead to the two of them deciding to focus on bringing their mother back / getting revenge, while also removing concern parent whose desire to protect their kids can cause the team to splinter.

"She is the only one that isn't pregnant at the moment". Speak for yourself my dude. In my runthru, NONE of them are pregnant. I turned that option off so fast I almost broke my keyboard.

 

[Henchmen13]

"She is the only one that isn't pregnant at the moment". Speak for yourself my dude. In my runthru, NONE of them are pregnant. I turned that option off so fast I almost broke my keyboard.

That's personal choice, which i can respect. The dev said that pregnancy enabled is cannon, which means it's fair share to use it for theories in my book.

 

[swansong1983]

Lovense integration would go so hard on this.

 

[AVNplayer69]

Probably, but the only thing I’m not sure about with Annie is Luna’s “vision” about her. Of course, we’re predicting that it will be a threesome between them, but what if it isn’t?

Pretty sure Luna wouldn't be blushing hard thinking about something bad happening to Annie. That was definitely a threesome vision. But something unfortunate happening afterwards can't be ruled out since Cari thing for Cliffhangers... But if we are putting that theory then Annie is probably safe because Luna would have seen something... Or maybe its too early for her to see anything bad that would happen in the future

 

[khn8p7]

I can see the cliffhanger for 0.10 being possible death, in order push the whole team to be more focused everything and discard their normal lives. Alternative for removing the girls, at least temporary, is so Orion need to use some of his other allies. I can see Chang being brought to plan prison break, possibly participate in it from inside Eternum in order to save the girls (Luna making big impression on him and saying she must be protected). Maximo to help Nancy because he has stakes in the WRE remaining multi server faction that possibly pays him, Jerry because he is now friends with Orion, ect. I can see "assholes Orion" that didn't help his allies having to do the prison break alone and failing.

Removing the girls as a narrative device to "morality check" the decisions Orion has made so far in regards to his allies is actually a BRILLIANT point that I hadn't even considered. So far we already have a few allies whose relationship with us depends on our choices, like hooking Chang up with Micaela, saving Maximo in New World, saving and befriending Jerry in Valley of Kings, and (maybe) witnessing every mafia conversation between Raul, Noah and Giuseppe,... Putting the girls out of the picture would certainly give these guys a much bigger opportunity to shine (or not shine if we haven't helped them, which should lead to a bad ending)

If that were the case, and if death in Eternum was going to be this "removal" method, then we're looking at the possibility of it happening to every single girl, instead of just one. Now that would be one hell of a cliffhanger.

But if death was used more like a motivation for the whole team (instead of just for Orion) as you said, then that possibility is less likely. And in that particular case maybe Nancy IS the best fit because she's the only girl who has had the most extensive interaction with every other member of the harem (except for Calypso, but she's the exception due to being stuck in Hyrilar for now).

 

[Cratchen]

Now get in the car and accept our love.

 

[jackphi]

Sounds like you're talking about "romanticcalypso" in the files.

I'll DM it to you.

I am wondering the same thing

 

[hhhfhffhfhfh]

Now that I think about it, The Big Chang isn't Thanatos, The Big Chang is Eternum itself. Yo im so smart

 

[Paerun Cru'Av]

Damn, I knew it's a trap, from the first "chop" command I saw on the screen.

 

[Padorublad3]

nobody will die, luna saw the happy end already imo

the whole dying cycle is something which happened already in the past countless times, were in the good run this time

I'm not sure,but I'll try to come up with a theory
And it's based on butterflies It's not the first time we see them during Luna's scene,and I keep bringing them because they look exactly like butterflies from Life is strange
Eternum

Life is strange


If you never played life is strange - long story short: The mc had an ability to roll back in time,and she abused it to always get the best outcome. Every time she did it,butterfly appeared - reference to butterfly effect. In the end, it reveals that her abuse creates a time distortion and a time paradox,so,everything is absolutely fucked. And here's the ending: A huge storm comes to city that was caused by this abuse. So,she can reset all her previous rolls to remove the paradox and let her friends die,or everything stays the same and her city gets destroyed
Now,how it's connected to Eternum. There is a small parallel to Luna and Orion. For example,during Luna's train trip, we abuse her power to change the future and fate. And another parallel to Idriel - all those question about coin flips are definitely hints, we need to change the fate and it's kinda what Orion does
In the end,I assume there might something like in the ending of LiS,Orion will need to pay for this,so he would need to loss something(maybe Kredon will get destroyed) to save his girls
Maybe there is a different connection,or it's just a coincidence that butterflies look similar

 

[Dunner]

I'm fairly certain Luna saw the canon "epilogue" since she looked at Annie, then herself then Orion and said they'll be "more than fine"

For me that means she saw herself living a happy life (probably pregnant alongside Annie) with Orion, Annie and the others. I for one wouldn't use that phrase to signify a simply threesome but I guess that's the beauty of "foresight" in stories such as this: it can mean anything.


As for the girls dying? Well, we all know none of them will actually die. What I am certain of is that the girls won't want to see Orion disappear again.
Thus I can see them take a "fatal" hit for him right at the end just so Orion can go Super Sayian and either put Thanatos down for good or seriously injure the guy to the point he has to retreat (maybe rip his wank arm off or something).

Either that or Thanatos kidnaps 1-2 of the girls in the end and badly hurts some of the others that tried to fight him and as he leaves one of the girls rushes him alongside the MC and Thanny "kills" her before retreating with the hostages.

Nonetheless I can't wait for the next update.

 

[fromcsabi]

loss something(maybe Kredon will get destroyed) to save his girls

that's a sacrifice i'm willing to make

 

[Padorublad3]

that's a sacrifice i'm willing to make

How about something more dramatic. If you save all girls,everyone else who got stuck in Eternum will die

 

[fromcsabi]

How about something more dramatic. If you save all girls,everyone else who got stuck in Eternum will die

If we play "would you rather" game I too at some point accept that there are more important things in the universe then our little harem. But I'm pretty sure it won't come to this in this game. I already know which button I will press: [save the girls] if it is ever come to that.

 

[nik.kor]

unpacking the audio only lists "lovefrench2" but not the actual name of the song.

My thanks