I've played those games that you keep dismissing as "virtual novels or similar" just because they are 2dcg or 3dcg. They are not even close to being virtual novels, majority of them offer actual gameplay in the form of either turn based combat(such as karryn's prison), beat-em up(such as eris dysnomia), puzzles(such as the genesis order) or dating sim(such as teaching feeling).
FWIW while I'm saying they lack gameplay I do try some of them myself so I'm not just talking out of my ass, though if you consider puzzles and dating sims as gameplay we probably just disagree on what counts as gameplay. Just for clarification I'm not referring to games like Hero Party Must Fall, The Imperial Gatekeeper, Flower Charm Sequel, etc that obviously have gameplay loops. If you take a look at the 3dcg tag right now it's mostly full of Ren'Py games that are purely dialogue with no additonal mechanics other than point and click or sandbox at best, but even then, sandbox in these types of games amount to opening a map to click on and load into a different area - no creation/exploration. You can just read the tags for the games to see this. 2dcg games suffer from this to a lesser extent, but then again there are almost 2x more 2dcg games than 3dcg so I can understand why this wouldn't seem the case if you don't scroll through the pages or are more lenient on what counts as gameplay.
This is fair, but if we go by this definition it clashes with how people view a bunch of games. All the porn games hosted on this site including this version of Fallen Doll that just plays animations?
Playing: an action where a "player" is constantly interacting with various systems of a game such as inventory systems, leveling systems, dialogue systems, combat systems, skill systems using a lot of buttons on their mice, keyboards or gamepads to win(or complete) the game. Examples to play: eris dysnomia, karryn's prison, lona rpg, solas city heroes, subverse...
I'm sorry but I'd argue that the act of playing isn't limited to that.
Then by this definition Fallen Doll isn't a scene viewer and is a proper game as you're playing since you're actively interacting with various systems being the game's UI, buttons, swapping between the animations, choosing when to climax(complete the animation and receive benefits), giving and receiving likes(in the Steam version), changing outfits, shifting positions/head movements, etc etc. My point with this is when arguing what counts as gameplay people are usually not consistent depending on how they view the game. So alfredskitchen sharing that one definition of gameplay either applies in all instances or we all just agree on having our own opinions of what counts as gameplay.
Most computer programs have ui(user interface). Are all programs games?
Yeah, fallen doll has gameplay. Infact I think it has best gameplay ever. I've probably never seen such a beautiful gameplay. I especially love the part where I click a button to change clothes so I can get hornier while I WATCH the animation that is playing. But I also like the part where I click another button to choose the animation I want to WATCH. Or the part where I use mouse and press and hold W key until my character reaches a spot I like to WATCH the animation that I am going to pick. But the best part is the system that allows me to spend real money to unlock new animations that I can WATCH. Top tier GAMEPLAY. How fortunate I am to WATCH such a great game. Absolutely best not only in its genre but also in the whole gaming industry
Obviously not but I didn't think I needed to spell them out when you mentioned the same types of UI in your definition of playing a game:
And we've come full circle, by this definition a bunch of the 2dcg and 3dcg games hosted here are scene viewers/novels since, like I mentioned before, there isn't much interaction outside of clicking a dialogue choice or new area on the map which isn't much different from clicking to choose another animation. Again, this doesn't apply to all of them, but majority, and if you can't accept majority then a large chunk of them. These definitions are convenient until they apply to a game enjoyed then the rules bend.
And this is a prime example of people not being consistent depending on how they feel about the game. To me Fallen Doll is a scene viewer, I don't consider swapping between animations or the gacha mechanics in the Steam Version as gameplay. If others do that's cool, that's why I said we all will just have to agree to disagree on what counts as gameplay.Yeah, fallen doll has gameplay. Infact I think it has best gameplay ever. I've probably never seen such a beautiful gameplay. I especially love the part where I click a button to change clothes so I can get hornier while I WATCH the animation that is playing. But I also like the part where I click another button to choose the animation I want to WATCH. Or the part where I use mouse and press and hold W key until my character reaches a spot I like to WATCH the animation that I am going to pick. But the best part is the system that allows me to spend real money to unlock new animations that I can WATCH. Top tier GAMEPLAY. How fortune I am to WATCH such a great game. Absolutely best not only in its genre but also in the whole gaming industry
How do you level up and why do you level up? To unlock more girls and ultimately to watch more animations? And what does fallen doll's inventory/wardrobe system do in terms of gameplay? Isn't its purpose making you hornier as you watch those animations? How does that count as gameplay? Actual gameplay is being able to change clothes, bruh
But... Fallen doll has very fun to play gameplay mechanics such as:
This is by your very own definition of playing a game so you tell me lol.How do you level up and why do you level up? To unlock more girls and ultimately to watch more animations? And what does fallen doll's inventory/wardrobe system do in terms of gameplay? Isn't its purpose making you hornier as you watch those animations? How does that count as gameplay? Actual gameplay is being able to change clothes, bruh
If you're disagreeing that those mechanics count as gameplay you're contradicting your own definition and kinda proves my point.
I already told you but you kept making excuses:
Yes, I am now contradicting my own definition because someone told me:
Making excuses would imply I have some reason to defend or suggest I believe Fallen Doll actually has gameplay when I've already said that wasn't the case in this convo alone and if that isn't enough then my post history in this thread should make it more than clear:
I think you're just missing the point. I'm not trying to make it seem like you're saying anything other than what you've literally said because it proves my own point. If we go back to look at how this devolved into what's considered gameplay in the first place I'll remind you my stance was agreeing that we just have different opinions on what's considered gameplay and to leave it at that, but you insisted on certain things being required to be considered gameplay, so now I'm using Fallen Doll as an example to point out how by following your own rules and logic, Fallen Doll's mechanics should be considered gameplay according to your own definitions. All of this is an extension of the 2dcg/3dcg convo where I also said we just disagree on what's considered gameplay.
You've made distinctions but following your own distinctions Fallen Doll should have gameplay. Listing other games as examples is irrelevant when you've made a ruleset but then discard it when it doesn't fit how you want it to, and I've already given examples in like my second or third reply to you in this convo:
The sarcasm here is ironic considering it was your own words that lead to that, hence me making a point of the inconsistencies and contradictions you're either not picking up on or ignoring.
Anyway, we both agree Fallen Doll doesn't have gameplay, that was never in question, this entire thing was about whether most of the 2dcg/3dcg games hosted on this site have gameplay or not. Fallen Doll was used as an example to show how opinions can differ on what's considered gameplay since this is the game's thread.
Yes, you do have a reason. You've actually paid for this game. Infact you probably paid for other animation viewers too. Does the name "Wild Life" ring a bell?
I am reading my own explanation over and over again, infact I've probably read it more than 10 times at this point and I am still unable to understand how it means "changing outfits means gameplay" or "clicking ui buttons means gameplay" or "choosing animations to watch means gameplay" or "slightly changing animation pose means gameplay". But whatever dude, I don't care anymore. Have fun with your headcanons
Lmao
Like I said, you're either failing to see how contradicting your own words are or willfully ignoring them. Either way, all of this back and forth could have been avoided by just agreeing to disagree lol.I am reading my own explanation over and over again, infact I've probably read it more than 10 times at this point and I am still unable to understand how it means "changing outfits means gameplay" or "clicking ui buttons means gameplay" or "choosing animations to watch means gameplay" or "slightly changing animation pose means gameplay". But whatever dude, I don't care anymore. Have fun with your headcanons
Agreed, this was basically all I was defending lol. Most games hosted on this site are scene viewers, visual novels, or games similar to visual novels.
