VN Ren'Py Abandoned Fallen Roads [v0.2] [Boketto Games]

[v1900]

That's how it went. So, you can only blame Ava for not saying no to alcohol. The rest was done to her, she is not to blame for that.

This is an interesting topic, one that I have discussed in real life with some people. We can say that morally it is appalling for that to happen to a woman but on the topic of responsibility is when it all goes down the drain. If a woman is walking along and a man rapes her I agree that there is no responsibility on the woman, but if she knowingly puts herself in a position like Ava she has to carry with the responsibility too. I you will humor me consider this:

Spoiler: Accessory to a Crime

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Think of Ava as an accessory or a conspirator. She already agreed to the fact but midway through the sequence of events she regrets her participation and bails out. In any other scenario that it is not related to rape she would be held responsible along with the perpetrator. Consider this example:

Instead of cheating they were going to rob the MC. Just before they grab MC's valuables she remembers that she likes the MC so she tries to run out the door but Bryce being his usual self grabs her and beats her and knocks her out. When the police catches and arrest both of them, she will argue that she did not actually grabbed any valuable and she was knocked out. Tough luck she will never the less be charged with the crime.

Now we as members of society agree to make the exception in regards to rape because we like to protect our women. It is a measure that oversteps the boundaries of legal system, the morals of the society and the ethics of people with the sole purpose of guaranteeing that the fair sex is protected. But it should or does not magically erase any responsibility a woman might have in the events.

To reiterate, there is a difference between being a victim and playing Russian roulette.

 

[Chris_Prat]

Ava should have been the good girlfriend and only chills a bit doin' nothing really mad, but what I can see is that she was only as depressed as her boyfriend needing some 'own' time.. That's the point, maybe.. It's confussing seeing how Ava takes Bryce's hand to lead upstairs, you can only think about one thing in that situation, but there she rejects his advances due to some panic attack (maybe?).. Narrative is fragmented and moves along between flashbacks..

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

This is an interesting topic, one that I have discussed in real life with some people. We can say that morally it is appalling for that to happen to a woman but on the topic of responsibility is when it all goes down the drain. If a woman is walking along and a man rapes her I agree that there is no responsibility on the woman, but if she knowingly puts herself in a position like Ava she has to carry with the responsibility too. I you will humor me consider this:

Spoiler: Accessory to a Crime

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Think of Ava as an accessory or a conspirator. She already agreed to the fact but midway through the sequence of events she regrets her participation and bails out. In any other scenario that it is not related to rape she would be held responsible along with the perpetrator. Consider this example:

Instead of cheating they were going to rob the MC. Just before they grab MC's valuables she remembers that she likes the MC so she tries to run out the door but Bryce being his usual self grabs her and beats her and knocks her out. When the police catches and arrest both of them, she will argue that she did not actually grabbed any valuable and she was knocked out. Tough luck she will never the less be charged with the crime.

Now we as members of society agree to make the exception in regards to rape because we like to protect our women. It is a measure that oversteps the boundaries of legal system, the morals of the society and the ethics of people with the sole purpose of guaranteeing that the fair sex is protected. But it should or does not magically erase any responsibility a woman might have in the events.

To reiterate, there is a difference between being a victim and playing Russian roulette.

No man,there is never a responsibility on the woman who was raped.Or on any person who had a crime committed against them. All of that stuff Ava did on the way were bad,she broke mc's trust and fucked up. But no matter what she does,you can't say she was responsible even in a minor way. Even if she was walking naked around bryce he wouldn't have a right to do what he did unless it's consensual. It's obvious that putting yourself at risk is stupid,but that is not a reason to call her responsible. If i was walking around a crime infested area carrying a bag full of cash and showing it to people,that would be stupid of me to do.But it doesn't excuse the theft itself.

 

[MisterNephilim]

No man,there is never a responsibility on the woman who was raped.Or on any person who had a crime committed against them. All of that stuff Ava did on the way were bad,she broke mc's trust and fucked up. But no matter what she does,you can't say she was responsible even in a minor way. Even if she was walking naked around bryce he wouldn't have a right to do what he did unless it's consensual. It's obvious that putting yourself at risk is stupid,but that is not a reason to call her responsible. If i was walking around a crime infested area carrying a bag full of cash and showing it to people,that would be stupid of me to do.But it doesn't excuse the theft itself.

I agree, Ava acted like a moron, and clearly betrayed MC in a couple of ways, but the (supposed) rape is all on Bryce.

 

[KingWeWuz]

Food for thought here. Let's say there was no molly. Let's say she was drunk. Even a sip of beer is lawfully going to put people under date rape.

Knowing that she ingested beer, willingly, and ended up in that situation... are players going to change their minds?

I guess my question is, does the molly change anything?

 

[Canto Forte]

MC: I know how it feels:
being despised and hated and beaten into the ground every day.
Been a victim all my life: parents broke up, girls pittied me,
drug dealers bullied me for no reason, I still do not understand what
it was they were all saying while beating me senseless.

Am I that much more of a moron for still wanting to love Ava?

​

 

[MisterNephilim]

Food for thought here. Let's say there was no molly. Let's say she was drunk. Even a sip of beer is lawfully going to put people under date rape.

Knowing that she ingested beer, willingly, and ended up in that situation... are players going to change their minds?

I guess my question is, does the molly change anything?

Well, that's the debate isn't it ? In Ep 1 it was cheating, in Ep 2 it was hey, maybe she's under the influence, and that's why people are having these (fun) discussions.

From my point of view, if there was no drug that "truly" altered her decision making capabilities, then up until going upstairs with Bryce is all on Ava's fault and its enough to justify a break up. If what happens after, to the point of her being naked, is while she's unconscious, then from that point its not on Ava.

 

[v1900]

No man,there is never a responsibility on the woman who was raped.Or on any person who had a crime committed against them. All of that stuff Ava did on the way were bad,she broke mc's trust and fucked up. But no matter what she does,you can't say she was responsible even in a minor way. Even if she was walking naked around bryce he wouldn't have a right to do what he did unless it's consensual. It's obvious that putting yourself at risk is stupid,but that is not a reason to call her responsible. If i was walking around a crime infested area carrying a bag full of cash and showing it to people,that would be stupid of me to do.But it doesn't excuse the theft itself.

Again I am not talking specifically about the rape, I am talking about the intent that Ava had. That's why I started with an example like yours, when you are just strolling along minding your own business.

Maybe I didn't made my point as clear as I thought. Mainly because of your example with the bag of money. In your example you are strolling around with a bag of money and you do not have intent of doing anything. That is ok. My point was more like you are strolling around with your bag of money but you have intent. That intent may be to buy drugs and once you approach the drug dealer and are paying you notice that he is cop but you have already handed him the wad of cash. The police officer will not give you the drugs but a nice pair of handcuffs. You can argue that you didn't commit a crime because no drugs were exchanged but you will be judged for the intent.

While we agree that Ava should not be legally judged for the rape because she is the victim. She does have to burden the responsibility of her bad judgement that led her to the slaughterhouse like a little lamb. That responsibility is the ending of her relationship with the MC. The point that I am making is that even though there is a possibility that nothing actually happened. The MC has no moral obligation towards her. So he is free to tell her to suck it even if nothing happened because she had intent to wrong him even if she did not end up doing anything.

 

[Canto Forte]

MC: Moments that come to mind ... while it hurts, there is a sense of belonging,
of being part of the history of a lot of people ... what on earth were they thinking???

Spoiler: Nit picky reveals:

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[Canto Forte]

While dev refused to show us explicit action between MC and his GF ...

Spoiler: We got fan service in the shower

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[TheYoungBuck]

Was it her decision to party with skanks and drug dealers? Yeah. She took the risk knowing who they were.

So we know she started out with beer, her choice to do it even when she promised her boyfriend not to. The beer led to a joint. That, and the fact that she went to a party with these bullies. It's all literally her being a shitty girlfriend. She put her boyfriends feelings to the side to spend time with her "friends." And break faith with him on what he asked her to do at minimum.

The consequences of that night are hers to deal with. The mc owes her no apology.

The MC doesn't owe her an apology, but if she was a drug addict and was only clean for three months at the time, I think a lot of people would be understanding that it's not easy just saying no. Especially when you're around people you grew up with, formed some bond with, even if it's with fucked up people. I don't think the MC would blame her for doing the drugs either, just disappointed. It's everything that happened after with Bryce that made him angry, which is valid.

 

[v1900]

She wasn't even able to contact anyone in that long. Do you have any idea what alcohol and drugs can do together in one body?

Food for thought here. Let's say there was no molly. Let's say she was drunk. Even a sip of beer is lawfully going to put people under date rape.

Knowing that she ingested beer, willingly, and ended up in that situation... are players going to change their minds?

I guess my question is, does the molly change anything?

Nope. Hell no.
I get the impression that all that has been said about us having experience with drugs and alcohol has been taken as fiction. When you drink you can feel the effects gradually and you decide if you want to keep on going, same with drugs. The only way she could have lost the way she does is if she chugged in one go more than 1/2 a liter of liquor.

For dose that keep thinking that we are pulling stuff out of our ass:

Spoiler: Hello

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I insist, I have personal experience [Edit] (I have taken) with most date rape drugs.

 

[KingWeWuz]

The MC doesn't owe her an apology, but if she was a drug addict and was only clean for three months at the time, I think a lot of people would be understanding that it's not easy just saying no. Especially when you're around people you grew up with, formed some bond with, even if it's with fucked up people. I don't think the MC would blame her for doing the drugs either, just disappointed. It's everything that happened after with Bryce that made him angry, which is valid.

Idk, I'd be 100% blaming her. Don't care if that makes me petty. If she wasn't prepared to handle that kind of pressure to drink, she should have chosen not to go.

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

Again I am not talking specifically about the rape, I am talking about the intent that Ava had. That's why I started with an example like yours, when you are just strolling along minding your own business.

Maybe I didn't made my point as clear as I thought. Mainly because of your example with the bag of money. In your example you are strolling around with a bag of money and you do not have intent of doing anything. That is ok. My point was more like you are strolling around with your bag of money but you have intent. That intent may be to buy drugs and once you approach the drug dealer and are paying you notice that he is cop but you have already handed him the wad of cash. The police officer will not give you the drugs but a nice pair of handcuffs. You can argue that you didn't commit a crime because no drugs were exchanged but you will be judged for the intent.

While we agree that Ava should not be legally judged for the rape because she is the victim. She does has to burden the responsibility of her bad judgement that led her to the slaughterhouse like a little lamb. That responsibility is the ending of her relationship with the MC. The point that I am making is that even though there is a possibility that nothing actually happened. The MC has no moral obligation towards her. So he is free to tell her to suck it even if nothing happened because she had intent to wrong him even if she did not end up doing anything.

Obviously mc has no moral obligation towards her. i'm not a big fan of her myself. i understand everyone who dislikes her

If a woman is walking along and a man rapes her I agree that there is no responsibility on the woman, but if she knowingly puts herself in a position like Ava she has to carry with the responsibility too

That is where the misunderstanding came from. It sounded like you were still talking about rape itself,now it's cleared.
I also wanted to point out that using law itself in regard to cheating is not correct,as cheating is not a crime in law's eyes,only moral.The comparison of intent to cheat and robbery you made was what I wanted to clear out,since she couldn't have an intent to be raped,because then it wouldn't be called rape. In this situation we have an intent to cheat,and I agree with everything bad regarding Ava you might have to say,but when she changed her mind,this is not comparable in cheating and robbery or any other crime as it is seen by penal law. During sexual intercourse,there is the intent of cheating Ava might have had,but the moment she said stop,any action by Bryce towards her is considered rape in legal terms ( in most countries,of course penal systems are different all around the world and even the definition of rape itself can vary greatly).I 100% agree with what you said in your reply though,and everything someone want to say about Ava and her behaviour up until the point she refused Bryce is valid.Now there is a conversation to be had about whether Ava knew it was Bryce when she took his hand and went upstairs. I believe the dev wanted to make it look like she was hallucinating and thought she was with the mc all the time,but that scene from v0.1 makes it hard to believe.And obviously whe was still stupid to put herself in danger like that.

 

[eddie987]

The MC doesn't owe her an apology, but if she was a drug addict and was only clean for three months at the time, I think a lot of people would be understanding that it's not easy just saying no. Especially when you're around people you grew up with, formed some bond with, even if it's with fucked up people. I don't think the MC would blame her for doing the drugs either, just disappointed. It's everything that happened after with Bryce that made him angry, which is valid.

Here's an easy solution: If it's difficult for you to say no, don't put yourself willingly in situations that might require you to do so!
If I want to lose weight, but can't resist pizza, I won't go to a pizza place, thinking "I'll just get a salad".

 

[v1900]

Obviously mc has no moral obligation towards her. i'm not a big fan of her myself. i understand everyone who dislikes her

That is where the misunderstanding came from. It sounded like you were still talking about rape itself,now it's cleared.
I also wanted to point out that using law itself in regard to cheating is not correct,as cheating is not a crime in law's eyes,only moral.The comparison of intent to cheat and robbery you made was what I wanted to clear out,since she couldn't have an intent to be raped,because then it wouldn't be called rape. In this situation we have an intent to cheat,and I agree with everything bad regarding Ava you might have to say,but when she changed her mind,this is not comparable in cheating and robbery or any other crime as it is seen by penal law. During sexual intercourse,there is the intent of cheating Ava might have had,but the moment she said stop,any action by Bryce towards her is considered rape in legal terms ( in most countries,of course penal systems are different all around the world and even the definition of rape itself can vary greatly).I 100% agree with what you said in your reply though,and everything someone want to say about Ava and her behaviour up until the point she refused Bryce is valid.Now there is a conversation to be had about whether Ava knew it was Bryce when she took his hand and went upstairs. I believe the dev wanted to make it look like she was hallucinating and thought she was with the mc all the time,but that scene from v0.1 makes it hard to believe.And obviously whe was still stupid to put herself in danger like that.

I wholly agree with you, I just want to point out that there are jurisdictions even in the U.S., and around the world, were infidelity is considered a crime, that is why I decided to make that example. If you ever see or read a case in dose jurisdictions you will see it is a circus to say the least. A very complex topic indeed.

 

[TheYoungBuck]

Here's an easy solution: If it's difficult for you to say no, don't put yourself willingly in situations that might require you to do so!
If I want to lose weight, but can't resist pizza, I won't go to a pizza place, thinking "I'll just get a salad".

I guess. I'm just more forgiving with young adults. Also this situation is a bit more complicated than a pizza addict not going to a pizza place. Like feeling pressured by friends, who maybe she saw as family, or whatever else...But we all have our standards, so it is what it is. I also subconsciously think there's more to her reasoning for going that hasn't been revealed, but that's just me theorizing.

 

[Canto Forte]

A junky getting high after some hiatus ..
welcome to the happy sexy getting high with your kink pin.

I also subconsciously think there's more to her reasoning for going that hasn't been revealed, but that's just me theorizing.

 

[v1900]

View attachment 1452984

A junky getting high after some hiatus ..
welcome to the happy sexy getting high with your kink pin.

Right!!! It tells us that she was in her right mind all along.

 

[eddie987]

I guess. I'm just more forgiving with young adults. Also this situation is a bit more complicated than a pizza addict not going to a pizza place. Like feeling pressured by friends, who maybe she saw as family, or whatever else...But we all have our standards, so it is what it is. I also subconsciously think there's more to her reasoning for going that hasn't been revealed, but that's just me theorizing.

Yeah, I agree with that last part. For me she subconsciously wanted "closure" with Bryce, the guy she's had a crush on and is now moving away. And I'm not talking about a goodbye... There's no other reason for her to be there. She could meet everyone else at a different and way less "tempting" environment instead of a party in her drug dealer's house...