VN Ren'Py Abandoned Fallen Roads [v0.2] [Boketto Games]

[Yusuf69]

It does appear to be heading in that direction. I might be reading too much into it but consider this:

View attachment 1454750

In his Discord channel he has told that he had previous knowledge of the VN scene so I do not know why the first sentence is cut short and the need to involve a moderator and then have the Q&A on Discord and say that Ava is based on his ex that cheated on him but Ava is not a cheater. Then when the whole shit hits the fan and the NTR crowd went crazy he posts this in his Discord.

View attachment 1454753

I don't really care for the NTR part but I do like to point out the part that says "just the middle of it has a few vocal incels who can't accept characters that act like human beings.".

We know that he already said that Ava and Annie are here to stay, the only choice we will get is if we want to end up with any of them at the end. So They will be shoved down our throats until the end. That's all fine and dandy, but my worry is that if Ava is based in his cheating ex and we have to stomach her all the VN, this will be like entering the dev's mind. Are we going to have to be bombarded with the dev's rationalization of why we should wag our tails to a cheating ex girlfriend? We have the first rationalization in the second update, she didn't cheat, she may or may not have been raped.

So what I gathered from that is that the dev has it all planned, he knows who Ava is and who Annie is, they are the women that for reasons unknown to us were chummy and even more with Leo/MC's bullies and never tried to stop them while using the MC as a therapy dog. There is a time jump and he just out of the blue accepts to go on a road trip with the "friend" that by his own words ghosted him and she is just using him because she has none to trust. I could keep on piling shit up but I think I made my point.

So you either like them or you are an incel. I get that they have flaws and all but the only one that does not "act like a human being" is the MC. I think that the only way to turn this around is if the MC turns out to be a massive asshole to be on leveled ground and then we can say that all of them act like real human beings.

Going by the few choices that are present in the game it is looking like we may have to simp our way into their panties.

If the dev reads this, dude there is a difference between been a friend and been a floormat.

I posted that after the first release, and there were indeed some incel responses to Ava back then.
It's not like right now, where there is some constructive feedback, although there were still a few questionable responses for sure.

 

[clowns234]

I posted that after the first release, and there were indeed some incel responses to Ava back then.
It's not like right now, where there is some constructive feedback, although there were still a few questionable responses for sure.

I think psychologists would have a field day with your game and the comments here.
Kudos to you on that.

 

[Canto Forte]

This game has a lot of great character situational portrayals that get us invested in the plot.
The best thing in this game is the one and only time MC stood up for himself knowingly and responsably.
He beat Bryce.
He beat Bryce under the close eye of his girlfriend.
He beat Bryce unde the understanding attention of his clique.
MC finally beat the crap out of his bully and the bully cohort was behind MC 100000%

MC was the spear, finally, making up for years upon years of abuse.

That is it for now. That is the only redeeming act in this whole game.
Everyone else is doing the most dumb brain dead actions they could:
Ava buys molly from MC”s classmates.
Ava adores Bryce 4 being her drug dealer and maybe performed countless
sex favors on him for the drugs over the years.
MC”s classmates hate MC and goad Bryce on to beat the hell outta MC.
MC”s classmates despise MC because they think he is rich.
Bryce parties are exclusive to the babes he fkks and his boyz,
just look at the unending amount of joints they use in there.

​

My wild theory right now is:

What if MC received the picture of Ava smoking a joint blissfully while grinding on Bryce?

Would that make him beating the crap outta Bryce next morning unjustified?

Would seeing your woman drugged in somone else”s arms, the host of the party,
the same guy who invited Ava but not MC, not be grounds enough to beat him into the ground?

Everyone at the party knows it is his drugs, it is his booze, it it his party.

Luring ava in there to drug her and sex her feels that much far fetched to anyone?

For everyone at the party - that is what they did - get shitfaces and sex eachother.

Yeah, 100% mature and sensible adults!

View attachment 1453596

And she actually seems to be the most rational between them, based on the conversation she had with Natasha during the MC's first beating...

And that right there is where I firmly believe the MC failed. He needed to step in big time and try to put the kibosh on that nonsense instead of being like "ok have fun be careful"

My point exactly.

I remember the first time I went to a party and didn't drink. It was a whole different experience. 'Damn! Did I do stupid shit like that?' Yes. Yes, I did.

Most of us did. The difference here is those people are addicts, so you can't expect them to react rationally in situations like someone they don't like showing up unannounced to their party. Bryce is also someone who believes he's the "big dog" in every situation, as we can see from his reaction when the MC caught him in bed with his girlfriend. The only way he could go to that party without turning it into a fight was if Ava told her "friends" in advance she wanted to bring her boyfriend with her and "demanded" from them to behave, but as we saw she didn't even tell them she was seeing someone.

But you can't just assume it would end in a fight either. It turned into a fight because the MC lost his temper seeing what he saw. The MC was the one who threw the first punch. Not Bryce.

Side note: One has to wonder, considering he was assaulted, why Bryce didn't press charges. Maybe there was a reason why he didn't want police to get involved. Maybe it had something to do with what led to the fight.

You can't assume it would end in a fight had he showed up with Ava to the party.

(I was responding to your comment - The only way he could go to that party without turning it into a fight was if Ava told her "friends" in advance she wanted to bring her boyfriend with her and "demanded" from them to behave, but as we saw she didn't even tell them she was seeing someone.)

Had the MC and Ava both showed up to the party, Bryce could have told him to leave. Would he do that in front of his friends? Seems sort of cowardly, so I would guess he would not. But he could have.

I think it has to do with the excessive amount of drug dealing he does and doesn't wanna attract a cops attention to investigate his molly stash?

That would be a good reason. However, he could hide his stash before calling. He probably couldn't keep the cops from questioning Ava as to what led up to the fight.

I didn't say he'd immediately, that was just your assumption... I said he'd provoke the MC in every chance he got, which would eventually lead to a fight.

Again, we have the last dialogue between them about it. The MC was the one who brought it up, so it's obviously not the first time they talk about about it. You're just assuming that all of their previous conversations went the exact same way. How do you know he didn't play it cool, just because he didn't want to fight with her right before she go to a party where everyone hates him?

You are making the assumption that every single thing everyone posts here isn't just their opinion, but they state it as a fact.



To use your words: Where in the game do you see proof of this? Can you point it out please?

Yeah. But I'd imagine if the cops were even half competent, it would be the word of several drug addicts vs him as to who started the fight. If the mc just says "they were on drugs and attacked me" they could investigate the bullying, even going so far as to do a blood test to determine how much drugs they're on, which would lead to a search etc.

I'd imagine cops are the last thing he'd want.

It may have broke out into a fight. I gave my reasons why I thought Bryce would want to avoid a fight. Because they were no longer kids on a playground and as a drug dealer, he would want to avoid the cops from getting involved.


I don't need to make the assumption that all conversations went the same way. We know how the last one went. And on that conversation, he gave no indication that he didn't want her to go.


I don't know. I only gave why I thought he wouldn't.


Not every person. Just some.


I didn't present it as proof. I presented it as a possibility.

The only choice I want is to be able to tell her I don't believe a word she says. But I wouldn't hold my breath for that, usually devs don't give that choice.

Also we got a 'who dunn it' on our hands. Someone send MC a picture, presumably of Ava and Bryce naked. The only one we know who had MCs number for certain is Ava. My guess is that one of her bitch friends got her phone and send that text.

I don't think anyone would try to justify rape. That was my point, and why there is no reason to even talk about what happened at the party. She rejected him once they were in the bedroom.

We were intentionally led to believe it was a red car but at no point are we shown the red car (we still don't know what actually happened - we don't even know for sure if they had sex).

I have no vested interest in her cheating or not cheating. I honestly could care less. If a case can be made that Ava is a liar and a cheat, I haven't seen it. The dialog I went back and reviewed (and posted) doesn't show it. If it exists, please post it.

' And I find it interesting, that "after" Ava is caught, she (Ava) seems more concerned about protecting Bryce than sorting things out with her Boyfriend...'
How did you arrive at this conclusion? What exactly did she do to protect Bryce?

'Ava, is telling the MC that it was a blue car.' Wouldn't this be the Dev telling the player. When did Ava tell the MC anything about what happened that night?

Dick, maybe. Smug grin and on his way out of the house when MC arrives.
Bryce, probably not. Seemed to be asleep when MC enters his room.

Natasha is the purple haired one? She is also the one to tell MC that its enough when he is beating Bryce. My money is on her.

No, that's Sarah. I don't know, she's the only one who questioned the MC's beating when they were in school, so she seems to be the only one who doesn't actually hate him and she was already high as fuck long before Ava walked upstairs with Bryce. Natasha hates him for no reason or at least did when they were back in school, but like I said she seemed surprised when she saw him there. Something else we don't know for sure is when did Annie date Dick. If it was before that, he had a very good reason to fuck with him and he was also the one "pushing" Bryce towards Ava.

My working theory is that Annie was working with someone at the party to set up / break up Ava and the MC. Because that would make for the most in-game drama down the road - maybe?

If she had been passed out and just woke up, she would be confused - and somewhat guilty, for no other reason than she put herself in this position. Not seeing how this is defending Bryce though.

I will go back and review the end of Chapter1. I will let you know what I think.

BTW, I have maintained all along that she made some bad choices. Taking that first drink was one of the first.

So if you don't like how the story goes, you are an Incel? , for someone that claimed to want to avoid as many cliches as possible he is sure following the manual to the letter, I guess the next thing is to call people insecure for not liking that Ava was in that bed with Bryce.

I'm calling it now, the Dev will force the players to forgive Ava and even apologise to her for not protecting her from her own stupidity.

Is like TripleEx all over again.

In a lighter tone, I want to sincerely congratulate my mates here who have participated in the discussion in this thread. Despite having 60 pages in which you can think that there will be nonsensical complaints, mostly we always try to give arguments about why the plot and how it develops seems bad, wrong or poorly executed. I speak from the heart, the vast majority of the arguments that I have read, even those with which I disagree, always tried to give logical explanations. (With exceptions, as always)

You have to understand that in these cases where we do not have an exact confirmation of what has happened, the only thing we can do is make assumptions and try to read the characters. And we cannot be condemned for assuming.
I've only been here a year. Very little time, compared to many others. But I can say that this is one of the most interesting threads that I have read and in which you can easily get positive feedback. And not only that, many opinions and comments on this type of situation in real life. Even from people who, unfortunately, have experienced something like this.

One point that I want to emphasize is the "acceptance" that many of the players have had. At first, it was just Ava's infidelity. I, like many others, always prefer to have love interests that are easy to empathize with. And, as I said, that Ava has been unfaithful and that she continues to be a love interest is a very, very risky decision. For me, it is condemning her from the beginning. Even with characters that have hurt an MC that I play with, I try to be understandable. But there are limits. And cheating does not fall within those limits.

Practically no one demanded to rewrite the whole plot, simply correct the mistakes made and stick to a single plan: that Ava has only been unfaithful or that she has only been raped, preferably only keeping the infidelity part, without mixing it with a possible rape to make it more redeemable (or not).

It's a shame we've gotten to the point of preferring that a love interest was unfaithful rather than that it wasn't in the beginning, in a way like this.

MC is a victim, bullied by a lot of goons while the hottest girls in his class pittied him,
felt he had it coming, felt he deserved the beatings constantly
and all of them pined and fell for his bullies over the years.

Anne has the agency in their relationship, MC has none.
In this kind of scenario, where MC is afraid to lose all and any girl
who happends to be in his life with his big potty mouth, is it uncanny
he had no more advice to give other than suggesting ava,
the girl who slips out on her mom to party,
that she not get shit faced and go home after the party?

 

[v1900]

NorWest
I think we all have high hopes for the EP3.
I agree that they are a young couple... but obviously college age and adults. While not married, the DEV did take time to build a little back story for them, and showed that they were exclusive. Its implied that she's been clean since starting to date, so I'd think they have a little more invested than just a "no harm, no foul, lets just break".
At least the MC feels that way

The MC has a lot on his mental plate, but OBVIOUSLY Ava is one of them... as he refers to Ava as "HER" in his bouts of depression.

Maybe I read it wrong...

While I get your point and agree. I think NorWest was saying that the dev has put too much at stake by them not having anything that connects them after the time jump. Not from the MC's point of view, and from our point of view.

I like your point from the MC's perspective, from ours not so much. I think that for there to be sympathy there should have been more content with Ava for us to see. As it stands we are mostly told about it but we don't see much. That may have been a better solution than the sympathy rape. Showing us something tangible that binds them, I am not talking something so dramatic as a child, but something like a project, a life goal.

A little off topic but I just though about it. I think that if Ava's version of the story started with something along the lines of "I know it's no excuse because I betrayed your trust.". We would have had a lot less to throw around.

What's your take? Am I making any kind of logical sense?

 

[clowns234]

MC is a victim, bullied by a lot of goons while the hottest girls in his class pittied him,
felt he had it coming, felt he deserved the beatings constantly
and all of them pined and fell for his bullies over the years.

Anne has the agency in their relationship, MC has none.
In this kind of scenario, where MC is afraid to lose all and any girl
who happends to be in his life with his big potty mouth, is it uncanny
he had no more advice to give other than suggesting ava,
the girl who slips out on her mom to party,
that she not get shit faced and go home after the party?

I think both MC and Ava feel as if they don't deserve to be happy in their lives. Up until now, their lives have mostly sucked. And neither handle that frustration well and both tend to self-destruct anything good in their lives. So far TO ME, Annie seems to be that person who feels as if they have to fix everyone.

 

[Canto Forte]

Who is everyone, though?

MC she put no effort into fixing anything, even telling him how bad she is for seeking out bryce and the skanks for pleasure ... telling that to the man you just fooled around with is the most disheartening thing to say.

How did Ava try to fix MC? She did no such thing.

Bryce? She went to his party, to his home, drank his booze, smoked his joints, slept in his bed,
then she rejected him after postulating she does not like him anymore. Bipolar much ???

So up until now, ava did nothing to fix either her pin up drug dealer or her boyfriend.

For anyone wondering: yes, people like jamie fox or any ol” rapper of puff or you name it
THROW PARTIES TO INVITE COUNTLESS BABES IN THE HOPES OF GETTING THEM DRUNK AND HIGH AND TAKE THEM TO THEIR BEDROOMS .. just in case you may think Bryce is some novelty.

Nope .. it is exactly what bruce wayne did countless times, or ironman - throw outlandish parties
where beautiful carefree / careless women flock and most give no mind about fkking their host.

Also .. anyone got the feeling those skanks were relieved they did not have to fukk bryce
because ava was there to be the meat for bryce?
They were so adamant about getting her shitfaced and tenderized for bryce to smash.
The whole evening, they kept hogging on ava and piling on the booze and the joints,
giving bryce ample time to grind and molest any other new babe he got hooked on his molly.

 

[PJWhoopie]

What's your take? Am I making any kind of logical sense?

Yeah... I can see what you and NorWest are saying.

I'll agree, that the bond between them, story wise is weak. I could try to justify it (as I did above) but you are right, I would be projecting my experience onto them to have it make sense... so I'll raise up off of that.

The DEV has me curious though about what was left on the cutting room floor. Maybe some more of the relationship building stuff.

And while typing this... I reflected a bit on what we do have as couple bonding, and it seems to have been mostly the "old timer" scene where Ava was grinding on the MC's lap when the old timer came up to scold them. I only played that through once, and I took the calming approach to Ava...

But dang, that made me realize that most of Ava's interactions were sexual in nature. Which lends credence to the Ava cheat scenario, cause she seems to be willing to "have a go" at the drop of a hat. So I'll store that nugget away for future reflection.

 

[clowns234]

How did Ava try to fix MC? She did no such thing.

I said Annie is someone who tries to fix people. Is that was you mean here? Or was that not meant for me?

I think Ava figures, like everything else in her life, she messed this up to. She figured that there was nothing left in the relationship that could be fixed so why bother. The MC told her it was over. Why would she not believe him?

For the MC, all this feeds right into his depression. 'Here is just one more example of my sucky life'.

 

[v1900]

Yeah... I can see what you and NorWest are saying.

I'll agree, that the bond between them, story wise is weak. I could try to justify it (as I did above) but you are right, I would be projecting my experience onto them to have it make sense... so I'll raise up off of that.

The DEV has me curious though about what was left on the cutting room floor. Maybe some more of the relationship building stuff.

And while typing this... I reflected a bit on what we do have as couple bonding, and it seems to have been mostly the "old timer" scene where Ava was grinding on the MC's lap when the old timer came up to scold them. I only played that through once, and I took the calming approach to Ava...

But dang, that made me realize that most of Ava's interactions were sexual in nature. Which lends credence to the Ava cheat scenario, cause she seems to be willing to "have a go" at the drop of a hat. So I'll store that nugget away for future reflection.

Yeah I just hope we don't get all those bonding moments as flashbacks. What is done is done and it would be better to use all that production time moving the story forward instead. Make her better now instead of making better what she was, because she was a turd and you could polish a turd but it is still a turd.

 

[Canto Forte]

Yeah ... I might have misplaced the names.

Still .. ava promissed MC to tell him later and had several impulses to tell him then
and there but 4 some reason she had nothing to say.

Ava messed up, not MC, so she had a moral obligation to fix this situation, which she
bailed on, she bailed on her own impose obligation.
IT was her word given to MC to explain and fix things, which she shit on. She shht on her own word.

Annie fits right in there by FKKING GOING TO GET PUMPED BY THE ASSHOLE BROTHER
SHE WENT FOR DICK OF ALL ASSHOLES TO SPITE MC AND FLAUNTED HER ROSY
RELATIONSHIP RIGHT TO MC”S FACE EVERY DAMN TIME SHE WANTED.

Annie FIXED NOBODY. SHE NEVER STOPPED THE BEATINGS, SHE JUST GOT A BIGGER DUDE TO STEP IN - SAM - I SHUDDER TO THINK WHAT SHE OFFERED SAM IN RETURN.

THEN ANNIE FKKING GHOSTED MC - way to be his best friend, annie, way to be there 4 him.

 

[clowns234]

Still .. ava promissed MC to tell him later and had several impulses to tell him then
and there but 4 some reason she had nothing to say.

I have previously addressed possible reasons for why she didn't. 'Shock' is how the Dev described it within the scene. At what point in the bedroom scene that morning did she have a chance to explain? Cause things moved rather quickly. The fight broke out almost immediately. He left almost immediately after the fight.
We can agree to disagree.

Ava messed up, not MC, so she had a moral obligation to fix this situation, which she
bailed on, she bailed on her own impose obligation.
IT was her word given to MC to explain and fix things, which she shit on. She shht on her own word.

When did she get the chance. He told her he was done with her (still raging from his fight) and left. Seems as if they haven't had any contact since - prior to the car ride.

 

[Canto Forte]

Should we blame MC for not pursuing the drug pet of a drug dealer who
went and got shitfaced after MC lovingly told her not to go overbord and go home?

I think not. She had a responsability to whatever they had. She owed it to herself
to keep her word and her promise to MC. She failed on both accounts.

Ava had a moral obligation to pursue MC had she felt anything for him.

It is clear she had nothing for him, ever,
as she just goes to get her free booz and free drugs on
without the MC who is not into that.

Even for the drugs and the alcohool and the sleeping over.
She owed the explanation to MC.
Clearly though, all of that seeemd so normal and cool to her.
It was not worth to her the action of pursuing her boyfriend,
not even after she shht on his morals and his dignity she done hacked it to pieces.

Contrary to what this game postulates, making a relationship work needs
the girl to long for, go for, choose her boyfriend all the time and not whatever ava does.

 

[KingWeWuz]

Should we blame MC for not pursuing the drug pet of a drug dealer who
went and got shitfaced after MC lovingly told her not to go overbord and go home?

I think not. She had a responsability to whatever they had. She owed it to herself
to keep her word and her promise to MC. She failed on both accounts.

Ava had a moral obligation to pursue MC had she felt anything for him.

It is clear she had nothing for him, ever,
as she just goes to get her free booz and free drugs on
without the MC who is not into that.

Even for the drugs and the alcohool and the sleeping over.
She owed the explanation to MC.
Clearly though, all of that seeemd so normal and cool to her.
It was not worth to her the action of pursuing her boyfriend,
not even after she shht on his morals and his dignity she done hacked it to pieces.

Contrary to what this game postulates, making a relationship work needs
the girl to long for, go for, choose her boyfriend all the time and not whatever ava does.

Was there ecstasy in the first beer she chugged or was it just a regular beer then? Cause assuming it took about 40+ mins to activate, then after that she's not in her right mind and can't entirely be blamed.

I assumed she took the hit after the dancing so I'd blame her for getting drunk enough to sensually dance, but assuming it was the first drink it's probably not on her. She still fucked up by going to the party, but quite honestly why is the mc dating some chick who's friends with these assholes?

 

[Canto Forte]

This is the game .. MC had no other woman.

His best friend also dated in that circle, it never hindered Annie to always
insinuate herself on to MC as hiss bff, even after it was awkward as all hell
for them to talk about dick, the bully instigator, but Annie shoved her happy
dick moments onto MC all the time.

It pretty much boils down to crowd shit talk and peer pressure.

This is the dynamic in most schools, unis, you name it:
the bully seems to everyone as the victor, they all blame his victim.

In this case, we all see and know for sure everyone despised MC and
encouraged the beatings, so in a society where your demise is daily occurance,
like you are some kind of villain in constant pain and constantly deserving it,
what is MC to do?

Ava dated MC after she was done giving his bullies all of her attention,
because she supposedly did not like Bryce anymore.

Like that would ever be believable when she goes to his party
in his home and sleeps over.

Annie never saw MC as anything but a victim she could save,
so he had to listen to her hypocrisy day in and day out.

MC is the premise she dates Dick on and the premise she gets Sam to hang.
Because of the MC being the every day prey for all the ”strong” billies.

Also .. MC is the only one standing up to them.
We can see all the girls love them and go to their house
for free booz and drugs all the time.

Was there ecstasy in the first beer she chugged or was it just a regular beer then? Cause assuming it took about 40+ mins to activate, then after that she's not in her right mind and can't entirely be blamed.

I assumed she took the hit after the dancing so I'd blame her for getting drunk enough to sensually dance, but assuming it was the first drink it's probably not on her. She still fucked up by going to the party, but quite honestly why is the mc dating some chick who's friends with these assholes?

 

[KingWeWuz]

This is the game .. MC had no other woman.

His best friend also dated in that circle, it never hindered Annie to always
insinuate herself on to MC as hiss bff, even after it was awkward as all hell
for them to talk about dick, the bully instigator, but Annie shoved her happy
dick moments onto MC all the time.

It pretty much boils down to crowd shit talk and peer pressure.

This is the dynamic in most schools, unis, you name it:
the bully seems to everyone as the victor, they all blame his victim.

In this case, we all see and know for sure everyone despised MC and
encouraged the beatings, so in a society where your demise is daily occurance,
like you are some kind of villain in constant pain and constantly deserving it,
what is MC to do?

Ava dated MC after she was done giving his bullies all of her attention,
because she supposedly did not like Bryce anymore.

Like that would ever be believable when she goes to his party
in his home and sleeps over.

Annie never saw MC as anything but a victim she could save,
so he had to listen to her hypocrisy day in and day out.

MC is the premise she dates Dick on and the premise she gets Sam to hang.
Because of the MC being the every day prey for all the ”strong” billies.

Also .. MC is the only one standing up to them.
We can see all the girls love them and go to their house
for free booz and drugs all the time.

I'm 100% with you on this: she knew he was a bad guy and still went to the party.

You can tell because she says "is it wrong that I miss them?" In other words she's saying she knows they're awful. She probably knows the mc was the victim and not the aggressor. And she sees that it might hurt the mc to go to the goodbye party.

The mc only asks she not get too fucked up. So he doesn't demand she avoid drinking a bottle. But she should have stopped at just one. However if she had a molly in that single drink, then the actions after aren't really on her.

That's on her in a way. She drank at the party knowing that her friends are of the impression she wants to fuck Bryce, and probably wouldn't stop her if Bryce took her to bed with him. Again, on her.

However the drug she took in and of itself changes the way you act. Alcohol hurts your judgement and makes you do stupid things, and if it had just been the things she willingly consumed it would be on her.

But she took something she was not prepared for.

 

[Canto Forte]

Oh .. but molly she had been taking since forever, precisely in the presence of Bryce,
who fed her the first one and got her hooked on his hustler attitude she crushed on,
precisely in the presence of those skanks who fed her some more molly straight from Bryce.

She went to her molly dealers for fun, knowing molly was her for fun fix for years.
If anything, seeing the skanks not drug up would have been a surprise.
For the skanks, as we have ample proof, partying is with joints and booze.
That is what she is there for, party with her girls, so why is she expecting anything otherwise?
Why are we to be axpectign anything else than getting shitfaced and go fkk from these girls?

You have ta notice Dick and Bryce NEVER TOUCH ANY OF THEIR PRODUCT:
they must be getting fkks upon fkks from all the girls who used their joints or their molly.

In that kind of environment, would you call a girl high on multiple joints levelheaded?
Forget about the molly, she is using molly for years and that is why she is refusing Bryce:
she is used to molly effects - BUT SHE HAD JOINTS ON TOP OF IT AND BOOZE.

WE ARE NOT DEBATING WHAT SHE HAD - JOINTS FOR SURE, BOOZE FOR SURE, MOLLY FOR SURE - we have to think about the repercussions of all of that for her relationship to MC.

And to that .. we are all greatful : MC beating bryce up.
That is the right thing to do. It was refreshing to see MC like riddick:
All of the bullies and the skanks and even Dick wanted the show down.
They all assumed ( we know for sure that they pitched in heavily and phisically restrained ava to pile on the booze and the joints in her face, but they have deniability Bryce drugged ava on his own with that molly - they only forced, peer pressured, phisically put the joints in her face/mouth/hand - goading her and constantly mocking her into getting shitfaced), in their own minds, ava went upstairs high and looking for a bang, to that we know for sure as they all
asked Bryce why he was back so early. Then they are all blacked out groggy when Bryce
goes back upstairs and nakedly stands ready to rape ava.

Because Bryce was always the alpha and the billy, he was gonna go toe to toe with MC
to steal ava away - in their minds, ava chose Bryce and now MC was there to settle the score:

They know mano a mano and have seen Bryce beat MC up countless times.
They are used to the violence.
Ava is used to the violence because she never questioned Bryce beating MC up,
even after being told MC has supposedly started it.

She has seen way more violence with Bryce and a couple of other goons beating on MC,
so her teary eyed shock is bull: she has seen MC and Bryce battle it out all the time
all around her, mostly Bryce and some others and MC alone, it is no news to her.

Nobody cared anymore because by that time, it was common occurance: the beatings.

This is another wrench in this story: everybody was used to MC and Bryce battling it out.

So what in the nine hells is phasing Ava when she sees just another of their countless
beatings unfolding right in front of her eyes, like it had happened countless times before?

 

[eddie987]

Was there ecstasy in the first beer she chugged or was it just a regular beer then? Cause assuming it took about 40+ mins to activate, then after that she's not in her right mind and can't entirely be blamed.

I assumed she took the hit after the dancing so I'd blame her for getting drunk enough to sensually dance, but assuming it was the first drink it's probably not on her. She still fucked up by going to the party, but quite honestly why is the mc dating some chick who's friends with these assholes?

Definitely not the first one, since it was obviously unopened. Could be the second or the tenth. At that point it wouldn't matter because they were apparently chugging them down as the following dialogue shows.

br "Y'all must have iron stomachs to finish those bottles that quickly."
sar "We're here to turn up Bryce, it is your last day here after all."

What I don't get is this. She's been clean for around three months, but before that she was a user for years, right? If it was just her second beer, wouldn't she realise something's wrong with it? She had just finished another beer so she had something to compare it with. I have no experience with this type of drugs, so I might be wrong, but I think a chronic drug addict would be able to tell when they are drinking a normal beer and when one with something extra.
As I see it, it's either that the quantity was so small it wouldn't make sense for her to lose all inhibition, but she did anyway because of everything else she consumed or she was already shitfaced before she took it and it just got her over the edge...

I believe it's the first since, even if the dev decided to "cut" this part out of the second flashback, we saw in the first one she didn't just drink a couple of beers.

 

[clowns234]

If it were as simple as to 'just say no', there would be no alcoholics or drug abusers.
It's like telling a soldier with PTSD to 'just get over it'.

 

[Ursus4321]

UncleFredo...
This lies at the heart of the problem we are having with the VN so far. We shouldn't have to substitute anything for what the DEV meant... we can plainly see, read, hear what is there. If it wasn't meant, then... do some freakin research. We don't play games on what was meant, we play them with what is available.

It's not because the characters have complicated lives and we are too immature to deal with it. Its not because we just want games where we bang waifu and chuckle with buddies about it. Its not because the story is over our heads and we are missing the details.

Its because the details and facts that are laid out, that we read and see with our own eyes, lead us to logical conclusions that are in-congruent with where the Dev wants us to be. And to this point, there are no logical choices given to the MC to make regarding how fucked up the situation is. = Kinetic Novel

He has said himself, that if he was an Outsider, without his vision of where the game was going, he could see how we all could be confused. Or put another way, Yusef is saying, "If I was a player and not the developer, I'd be bitching about how it was laid out too."

You can't have a scene with a character driving down the road at 12:00 Noon on a bright sunny day and get in an accident, and then in the next chapter, have a character recall the accident and tell us it was 11:00 PM at night during a torrential downpour. Those don't add up. Somebody is lying....

In EP 1, we see the whole party laid out in front of us. It's NOT being told by the MC's perspective, its not Bryces' perspective, Or AVA's or anyone else. The DEV is showing us the party 3rd person, so we have to accept what we see, what we read, what we hear as fact.

*Now, I am of the camp that would say Ava has already fucked up by even going to the party... I mean really, how would we react if our significant other went to a party, hosted by her former drug dealer, where everyone their has either bullied us or just hates our guts for various reasons?*

Now EP2 Shows up, and we get "Ava's" Perspective. But, as said earlier, Ava is an unreliable witness, so there is a bit of 3rd Person stuff added... to try to change our opinion of her?

EP1 AVA - "I told Stu that I'd try to avoid drinking and smoking as much as I could... Don't wanna relapse"
Turns into Drinking hard, Smoking (Weed... with who knows what in it?)

EP1 AVA - Bumping and Grinding... literally dick to butt with Bryce on the dance floor

EP1 "Ava and Bryce are both hammered as they stare into eachother's (sic) eyes.
EP1 "AVA SILENTLY AGREES WITH A SUBLTE NOD AND GRABS BRYCE"S HAND
View attachment 1450488
AVA IS AGREEING TO WHAT EXACTLY???? Oh yea, lets go upstairs and fuck!

EP1 AVA and Bryce are seen, using at least two renders, going up the stairs, hand and hand... not struggling or stumbling... but walking upstairs hand and hand with an INTENT known to everybody at the party. WE ARE GOING UPSTAIRS TO FUCK!
View attachment 1450491

So we see and read AVA make her own choices here. She knows the kind of party she is going to and who is going to be there.
She knows that her BF doesn't want her to go overboard (but again, would anybody in a committed relationship go this far?)
She gets drunk and high and grinds on a crush. Looks longingly into his eyes and goes upstairs to a bedroom. She knows its Bryce, She knows what she is doing and where she is going, and what the intent is.

The MC gets at least 3 calls during the night, and at 3:43 AM, he wakes up and checks his phone. We don't know what he receives, or who it is from (unknown caller) but it would be a safe bet that the MC wouldn't have anyone who attends THAT party's phone number on his phone.
*SO somebody at that party is still Fucking with the MC... enough to send him some information about Ava and Bryce anyway.*

He arrives at the House where the party is dispersing. Not sure what time but it is daylight outside. Most of the other folks who attended are up and moving around/leaving. We know that Ava's house is some distance from the party (Said so by Bryce to convince her to stay the night) but we don't know the MC's proximity to the Party House.

He is greeted by Natasha, Dick and Josh. Dick says:
View attachment 1450494
Then Josh Tells the MC, If you are looking for Ava, she's Upstairs

As has been pointed out, Nobody is supposed to know that Ava and MC are dating...

MC then goes upstairs to find HIS GIRLFRIEND naked, in the bed of a mortal enemy.
View attachment 1450499
This is followed with
AVA - "Its not what it looks like"

This next one is pretty rich...
View attachment 1450502
Really? You can explain LATER?
WTF - why not explaining it to me now bitch, while you are naked in this asshats bed?
Later cause you are too embarrassed to explain what happened in front of the person you did it with who could confirm or deny your lies?
Later because you don't want your chances of getting drugs from your last night hook-up ruined?
Later because you need to come up with a plausible story?

If you got something to say, say it. If you were raped tell me now! Now is your opportunity!

And then, of course, the beating of Bryce Commences.

EP2
Now this told through AVA's point of view.... but it is kind of messed up as it is sprinkled with some renders/images that would not be "know-able" to AVA
In Ava's version, she is drunk and staggering up to the room... but wait, did she tell Annie/MC, yeah, I was going to fuck him, we were heading to the room, but I was really drunk and stumbled a bit on the way up?
Or is this 3rd person stuff to help correct EP1's version?
View attachment 1450507
Interesting too
When she does trip, Bryce catchers her, and she says:
View attachment 1450509
Why would she call him Romeo... Hmmmm... Romeo would be a romantic pet name. One you might use with somebody before you let him fuck you silly...
But did she tell Annie/MC this in "her version of the story"? Yeah, and on my way to fuck Bryce, I tripped, fell and he caught me. I was so impressed by his Quick Reflexes (though drunk) that I said, "Thanks for the Catch ROMEO".
Or, is that 3rd Person info?

The next bit is the sequence of Bryce fondling and kissing.... with Ava Consent.
View attachment 1450512
She then calls him [Pname] and seems to snap out of it and tells Bryce she can't do this, and that she is dating [Pname]

So... what did she actually tell Annie/MC?
"I went upstairs to Fuck Bryce, stumbled a bit because I was drunk, but you know that Romeo Bryce, he caught me thankfully! We get in the room, and I was enjoying the buzz from all the drugs and alcohol I had been consuming... and then we started making out... Funny thing, he was kissing me and fondling me JUST LIKE [Pname] does! As a matter of fact, it was so much like [Pname]'s moves that I actually called "Bryce" [Pname]. That is when I kind of snapped out of it. I am not saying the Drugs wore off or anything... cause after that, I got a bit sick and decided not to go home to the folks that love me and would actually protect me... I'll just pass out right here in the Land of Douche bag rapist... "
Oh, don't forget, I am a heavy sleeper... So when the sun comes crashing through these giant windows in the morning, and everybody else in the house is up and moving around, I'll still be sound asleep. Just don't say my name as that will wake me up instantly!"

Again, what does Ava Say?
OR is this more 3rd Person stuff to correct our EP1 impression?

When Bryce goes downstairs, EVERYTHING from this point on is 3rd Person Perspective. AVA would have no knowledge. She wouldn't have knowledge of getting mollied (or seeing Bryce Spike her drink).
She wouldn't know that when Bryce got downstairs, Natasha would say:
View attachment 1450524
Which just proves that point that EVERY BODY AT THAT PARTY knew Bryce and Ava were going upstairs to fuck. She can deny it all she wants. But the facts are:
She went to a party she shouldn't have
She made a choice to drink and do drugs though she knows it would upset her boyfriend
She Made a choice dance suggestively with Bryce... enough that they BOTH agreed to go upstairs to fuck
She made a choice to do it in front of everybody so that they would know what was happening/going to happen
She made a choice to stay the night... in the era of Uber or a boyfriend who would have immediately come to get her

Now some could say we didn't see these things unfold. You could muddy the waters with unclear renders or "what I really meant was...."

But at the end of the day, players have to make their own choice as to how to perceive Ava.
Not only that, but our on again off again BFF Annie may have been tainted by Ava as well.

There has got to be one hell of a redeptive path ahead of us.... otherwise, we, as players are going to be stuck in a car making decisions we don't want to make, concerning characters that we will quickly loose empathy for.

To make it clearer what you are so clearly exposing, I attach an image in which it is seen that Ava's stumble going up the stairs is difficult to be true since Bryce is in front and she follows him perfectly

 

[Canto Forte]

Anyone would say exactly what MC said:
Do not go overboard and come home. Come home to me, babe, is that so hard for you?

If it were as simple as to 'just say no', there would be no alcoholics or drug abusers.
It's like telling a soldier with PTSD to 'just get over it'.

WHY WOULD A SOLDIER GO EXACERBATE HIS PTSD IN A PTSD INDUCING ENVIRONMENT?