HTML Abandoned Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[Nope]

How does a mini episode that originally wasn't even planned end up taking 2+ months. At this rate she's not gonna be a bargirl in 2023. Crush was legit delusional when he thought he could release an episode a month or he's just figured out it's more profitable not to. Probably the latter.

 

[Riven]

The same way, everything he does takes 3+ months. He is extremely incompetent and faces no consequences regardless how long he takes.

From his previous update:

Yesterday I just wrote a different outline for the scene, focused more on the character relationship and the heroine's internal emotional state, and I think it'll be hotter. I'm aiming to get this new version of the scene rewritten today!

and how it ended?

Last week I rewrote the uncoöperative sex scene.

He apparently also wrote the first draft of a coda scene, but still, something planned for one day took him five?

He never thought he could release an episode per month. He posted it to soften the blow when he announced he will be splitting the august update (after developing it for months) into two parts. And you are right, she won't be a bargirl in 2023, maybe 2024 unless crush decides to work on linking backstory with the current version.

 

[Deleted member 2631085]

He never thought he could release an episode per month. He posted it to soften the blow when he announced he will be splitting the august update (after developing it for months) into two parts. And you are right, she won't be a bargirl in 2023, maybe 2024 unless crush decides to work on linking backstory with the current version.

Sounds about right. My guess is he might just about manage the promised optional side quests in 2023 (Booth babe, Big Mac, White Russian), counting 3 months per episode. I doubt optional events will advance the main corruption story much.

But he's hinted towards reintegration of the character creation part into the Bangkok part...

 

[alkeera]

I finally figured out what this game and dev strongly reminded me of all those years. It was another perfectionist Richard Williams and his The Thief and the Cobbler. But let's hope this one doesn't take 30+ years and numerous followers to make it decently finished.

Spoiler: Seriously, that dude had SIX fully animated fingers on each hand

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[alkeera]

Maybe wait to play the episode to see how mini it is, and also it's only been 60 days since last release. How many updates do you 3 want a year? 4, 10, 20? What is reasonable. Start with that, then complain when the agreed upon parameters are not met. IMO 60 days is nothing to complain about.

But i didn't complain? Just pointed out similar unfortunate case that bothered me.
There are other things i can do while patiently waiting for this one.
My fear is that it will never be finished. If i didn't like the game then i wouldn't care.

 

[alkeera]

I'm just wondering what people want and what is actually realistic... in terms of how many updates a year of what size do people expect as being realistic? My number is 4 large updates a year (so 45+ minutes of play time each). Each update taking around 3 months maximum. I expect side-quests to take no longer than 2 months. Am I the delusional one, or do we all agree? or do people have different ideas on timing?

Dunno. I don't really expect anything since i don't pay for it and to not get disappointed later on. I'm just glad when games do not get abandoned.

 

[ibizadalton]

Lets use another game as an example, A Family Venture is another game I am waiting to play, their last update was not 60 days ago like female agent, but instead it was back in October 10th 2022.... So the update was also meant to be a transitional update there as well, to prepare for sex with the main love interest Jackie. It's been like 6 months for that game, yet I don't see multiple posts of complaints there.

Is it because 6 months is okay for a game with high quality renders? But 2 months for Female Agent is not okay? Are people of the opinion that updates in this game should take 1 month? 2 weeks? what? So far we're still on track for 4 updates a year.

Office Wife, last update January 4th, it's a RPGM game, how hard is it to get an RPGM update within 2 months? Not to mention each time JS Deacon updates that game the updates are super small in comparison to female agent. Yet nobody bitches in that thread compared to here. Also super buggy.

Then there is the atrocious AWAM and Jessica O'Neils Hard News... Even Our Red String is taking "forever" on updates.

don't be impatient

 

[boobthief]

The same way, everything he does takes 3+ months. He is extremely incompetent and faces no consequences regardless how long he takes.

From his previous update:


and how it ended?


He apparently also wrote the first draft of a coda scene, but still, something planned for one day took him five?

He never thought he could release an episode per month. He posted it to soften the blow when he announced he will be splitting the august update (after developing it for months) into two parts. And you are right, she won't be a bargirl in 2023, maybe 2024 unless crush decides to work on linking backstory with the current version.

This is such a long running and repeated argument; so I will summarize:

You love the game but you want more and faster. That's fine, understandable. Who doesn't want more of this game?

But your lust for more makes you angry to the point you insult what you want. That's not OK, trite, impotent.

You join the vociferous minority of malcontents here. You're not helping. And this isn't Twitter so you don't get to cancel working people.

 

[Deleted member 2631085]

Maybe wait to play the episode to see how mini it is, and also it's only been 60 days since last release. How many updates do you 4 want a year? 4, 10, 20? What is reasonable. Start with that, then complain when the agreed upon parameters are not met. IMO 60 days is nothing to complain about. Honestly, the proper time to bitch is after release, that is proper bitch etiquette, when you have all the information.

P.S he could probably release each side quest in 2 months. It depends. It could be he thought this was going to be a mini update, and it ended up being regular size, if there is just 10 minutes of play time I would understand anger, but if it's the same size as last update then he actually did it faster this time. The extra length to release the update also makes sense since this whole update was unplanned apparently, when things are unplanned it takes crush longer. So, proper criticism is he needs better planning of the overall story.

So it could be 6 months for all side quests + linking the backstory 4-5 months, +1 additional update, = 1 year. Still not a lot done, but NOT horrendous compared to other devs. If it were up to me I'd want the whole game completed tomorrow, preference wise... but what is actually realistic?

You fan boys need to chill out. I'm just a realist...

According to Crush (Dec 30), releasing an episode just before Christmas, when it had been promised for September was "really fucking late". Those are his words not mine. So, clearly he is not happy about 3-4 months delay.

The new episode again in his words is meant to be "a mini story episode... the purpose [of which] is really just to set conditions for the side quests (and the next main quest episode later)" (11 January) and "just a quickie, but I think it’s got an interesting balance of action, plot and sexiness." (31 January).

The last episode came out for Patrons on Christmas. It's starting to look like 'a mini story episode' won't be out before the end of March. Three months is not exactly great, but - yeah - you've got a point that maybe the story grew in the telling... also he says he's got the next ones storyboarded, so maybe they will be quicker. Not holding my breath though.

As for other comparable games. I think FA and Eva Kiss's Good Girl Gone Bad both started development in 2017. Both are VN's with a female MC to corrupt. GGGB came out ages ago, has multiple paths and the developer is well into her next project - the Our Red String which you mentioned ...

 

[ffive]

As for other comparable games. I think FA and Eva Kiss's Good Girl Gone Bad both started development in 2017. Both are VN's with a female MC to corrupt. GGGB came out ages ago, has multiple paths and the developer is well into his next project ...

Perhaps worth to keep on mind Eva Kiss has been for years a goddamn powerhouse when it comes to development speed, one that very few could come even close to matching. It's like comparing a guy flailing in the community pool to Michael Phelps and acting all disappointed he comes up short.

 

[Deleted member 2631085]

Eva Kiss, Crush and Michael Phelps all get paid to work full time on what they're doing... the guy in the community pool presumably only does his flailing as a hobby in his spare time

 

[ffive]

Right, as we all know getting paid bestows unmatched skills on a person.

If someone throws money at the guy in community pool then it's their choice and/or problem. Who knows, maybe they're just entertained by the flailing and want to see some more of it.

 

[Nope]

Maybe wait to play the episode to see how mini it is, and also it's only been 60 days since last release. How many updates do you 4 want a year? 4, 10, 20? What is reasonable. Start with that, then complain when the agreed upon parameters are not met. IMO 60 days is nothing to complain about. Honestly, the proper time to bitch is after release, that is proper bitch etiquette, when you have all the information.

P.S he could probably release each side quest in 2 months. It depends. It could be he thought this was going to be a mini update, and it ended up being regular size, if there is just 10 minutes of play time I would understand anger, but if it's the same size as last update then he actually did it faster this time. The extra length to release the update also makes sense since this whole update was unplanned apparently, when things are unplanned it takes crush longer. So, proper criticism is he needs better planning of the overall story.

So it could be 6 months for all side quests + linking the backstory 4-5 months, +1 additional update, = 1 year. Still not a lot done, but NOT horrendous compared to other devs. If it were up to me I'd want the whole game completed tomorrow, preference wise... but what is actually realistic?

Crush himself describes the next episode as a "short interim episode". As far as "it's only been 60 days", the last episode was released early access on 12/23 so that is much closer to 3 months than 2 even figuring for Feb being short.

As for your timeline. If Crush could/would actually do that it would be reasonable. Reasonable enough for me to throw money his way anyway. The problem is he isn't even in the same ballpark as releasing full large updates in 3 months. 4-5 months is probably closer to reality. You have to remember that 1.17 was the 2nd half of his last planned release. I'm sure it got some padding to not make it feel short but still took over 4 months. 1.15 to 1.16 was also over 4 months and again, 1.16 was only the first part of his planned release. The current "short interim episode" is going to be 3 months at least it seems, judging from his last post.


Not directed at you but as far as folks wondering why Crush gets more complaints than random xxxx shitty dev. It's probably because Crush isn't shitty, he's just slow. Nobody cares if the update to a bad game takes 2 months or 2 years. Female Agent is not a bad game. It's just been a frustrating slog watching Crush get here and "here" is a linear text based game that has been basically rebooted, I think twice. "here" is also Crush probably working on what is the easiest part of his project. Afaik, he's eventually planning on having some choices that have meaning, possibly some branching story. I know originally he wanted a sandboxy bargirl experience where you might catch the guy after a couple months of bargirling, It could take longer if you try to avoid work and miss him, or you could get dragged into the industry and miss him entirely. Something like that. Pretty sure those plans are gone at this point though.

I know I rip on him for being slow/milking but, tbh, that's the way to do it if you can put out a quality enough project to keep people hanging on. Realistically Eva Kiss almost certainly cost herself $$$$ by being too damn good.

 

[boobthief]

Right, as we all know getting paid bestwos unmatched skills on a person.

If someone throws money at the guy in community pool then it's their choice and/or problem. Who knows, maybe they're just entertained by the flailing and want to see some more of it.

So, here's the difference:

You see someone flailing in the pool but I see someone trying their best to swim.

What I'm understanding from you, and please correct me if I'm wrong because this is your analog, is that you stand on the poolside and mock them for drowning.

The update is (probably) a week away. Why is that not good enough for you? And if it isn't (and you know better) why can't you do it better, faster, now?

 

[Riven]

This is such a long running and repeated argument; so I will summarize:

You love the game but you want more and faster. That's fine, understandable. Who doesn't want more of this game?

But your lust for more makes you angry to the point you insult what you want. That's not OK, trite, impotent.

You join the vociferous minority of malcontents here. You're not helping. And this isn't Twitter so you don't get to cancel working people.

Where exactly did I insult him? Incompetent, well, that's my assessment of his ability to deliver updates in a timely manner without repetitive delays.

I wasn't trying to be original. Anyone following this game for more than a few months, knows what to expect. Still, you are right about the fact it was redundant. My bad.

Sorry to disappoint you once more, but I'm not an American. I couldn't care less about twitter and cancel culture.

 

[ffive]

So, here's the difference:

You see someone flailing in the pool but I see someone trying their best to swim.

What I'm understanding from you, and please correct me if I'm wrong because this is your analog, is that you stand on the poolside and mock them for drowning.

Personally, i happen to share your view -- i see it as someone who is quite earnestly trying, even if he apparently lacks the raw talent of the best people in the field. I enjoy the end results, and while i'd also appreciate faster updates, there's more than enough of other games to keep me occupied meantime, so i don't see any point in complaining about delays. It's not like such complaints would change anything, in any case.

 

[boobthief]

Where exactly did I insult him? Incompetent, well, that's my assessment of his ability to deliver updates in a timely manner without repetitive delays.

I wasn't trying to be original. Anyone following this game for more than a few months, knows what to expect. Still, you are right about the fact it was redundant. My bad.

Sorry to disappoint you once more, but I'm not an American. I couldn't care less about twitter and cancel culture.

The same way, everything he does takes 3+ months. He is extremely incompetent and faces no consequences regardless how long he takes.

Don't be so fucking disingenuous. That's clearly an insult. Don't pretend otherwise.

There is a person, the target of your criticism. Could they do better - probably! Could you? Fuck no.

They are purportedly: 'Extremely incompetent' but you're still here waiting for their work. So that's all I ask you to consider.

 

[Riven]

Ah, so I can't express my opinion, but you are free to insult me. Got it. Glad we had this conversation.

 

[Nope]

Nope, says that the timeline I gave seems reasonable... so like is this going to be the standard we expect and hold crushstation to going forward? I think it's fair, but I could be wrong, and I am curious what others feel is reasonable. Here is a review of what I wrote...

* My number is 4 large updates a year (so 45+ minutes of play time each). Each update taking around 3 months maximum. I expect side-quests to take no longer than 2 months. Am I the delusional one, or do we all agree? or do people have different ideas on timing? *

Not like you can hold him to anything, nor does getting any consensus among pirates really matter. A consensus among patrons could probably hurry him up if they really wanted but I think only maybe 10% of them actually care. The other 90% posting shit like "take your time". There is a difference between what I think is reasonable and what I think Crush will realistically do. If I could work 2-3 days a week and keep patrons from complaining that is 100% what I would do.

 

[Deleted member 2631085]

But I am curious what you think a fair/respectable update schedule is: given the dev team size, the type of game, coding, art, and writing.

Dev team size: Two? Crush and 'the lovely Victoria'

Type of game: pretty linear VN (in its present state)

Coding: Pretty simple and easy-to-learn. This is an HTML-based browser game. Have you created websites in HTML? It's not rocket science. HTML became the foundation of WWW in the days of Web 1.0, exactly because it was simple and easy for millions to pick up.

Art: provided by the external artist Victoria, not Crush

Writing: well, that's what Crush mainly does

Taking all this into account, plus the episode size and the fact that Crush is one of the Patreon-developers who is above the threshold of being able to work on his creation full time, I would say 1-2 months per an episode would be perfectly reasonable.

Another Twine HTML-game I am following on this site, Masters of Raana, has released three updates in 2023 (I think).

* My number is 4 large updates a year (so 45+ minutes of play time each). Each update taking around 3 months maximum. I expect side-quests to take no longer than 2 months. Am I the delusional one, or do we all agree? or do people have different ideas on timing? *

Three months per episode is how I arrived at my prediction he will be able to finish the side quests this year and that's about it. I assume the first one will be ready in the summer... June maybe. The next one in early autumn and the third one by Christmas... I don't know why the side-quests should be quicker.

He might very well hit a writer's block, because the heroine hooking up with a random Russian dude she met when she was high does not flow naturally or something... but hopefully those beat sheets or whatever will help him to get into more of the type of workflow he envisaged when he posted the schedule last autumn.