HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[Senor Smut]

Yes, this is totally how it works. A random young woman spouting inane shit to a low-rung mafia guy and bam, you have a world-class terrorist all bagged and ready for delivery. They'll even add fries.

Why do you think the intelligence agencies even bother with the undercover approach if things are this simple?

My point was that if they were going to threaten Kriangsak, it wouldn't BE a lone girl "threatening to take him to the HR department," it would be a much more credible and overwhelming threat that would be believed. My point was not that they would necessarily handle it that way.

That said, intelligence agencies have special forces components for a reason, and sometimes they handle situations in exactly that way -- they strive to have the right tool for the job at hand, and sometimes the right tool is the threat of a horrific human rights violation backed up by a pack of stone-cold killers.

But if we're still continuing this bizarre "realism" discussion, then them handling the situation that way is infinitely more realistic than the situation in the game where an intelligence agency would send one of their own agents, who knows actual top secret shit and would pose a massive security risk if discovered, to shake her tits in a Bangkok bar, whether or not prostitution is involved. Once you accept the game's premise that an intelligence agency would actually do that, you've gone off into fantasyland and any discussion of "realism" is as nonsensical as the original premise. The argument should center around verisimilitude -- the willingness of the creator to color inside the lines of the fantasy world and characters he created -- rather than realism, which means what would happen in our world.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

My point was that if they were going to threaten Kriangsak, it wouldn't BE a lone girl "threatening to take him to the HR department," it would be a much more credible and overwhelming threat that would be believed. My point was not that they would necessarily handle it that way.

That said, intelligence agencies have special forces components for a reason, and sometimes they handle situations in exactly that way -- they strive to have the right tool for the job at hand, and sometimes the right tool is the threat of a horrific human rights violation backed up by a pack of stone-cold killers.

But if we're still continuing this bizarre "realism" discussion, then them handling the situation that way is infinitely more realistic than the situation in the game where an intelligence agency would send one of their own agents, who knows actual top secret shit and would pose a massive security risk if discovered, to shake her tits in a Bangkok bar, whether or not prostitution is involved. Once you accept the game's premise that an intelligence agency would actually do that, you've gone off into fantasyland and any discussion of "realism" is as nonsensical as the original premise. The argument should center around verisimilitude -- the willingness of the creator to color inside the lines of the fantasy world and characters he created -- rather than realism, which means what would happen in our world.

If you want to talk about realism/verisimilitude in this story, the thing is, there's no point in sending an international agent there to go straight to the club without knowing much about it. The more realistic scenario is basically: Those other bargirls/coworkers? Yeah, go meet one of them alone (ideally at the end of their shift). Offer her money/drugs in exchange for information about the place. Be subtle about it, make a point about it being a non-binding opportunity (girl can meet an agent somewhere else during the day). Rinse and repeat with the rest of the bargirls

 

[Senor Smut]

If you want to talk about realism/verisimilitude in this story, the thing is, there's no point in sending an international agent there to go straight to the club without knowing much about it. The more realistic scenario is basically: Those other bargirls/coworkers? Yeah, go meet one of them alone (ideally at the end of their shift). Offer her money/drugs in exchange for information about the place. Be subtle about it, make a point about it being a non-binding opportunity (girl can meet an agent somewhere else during the day). Rinse and repeat with the rest of the bargirls

That is the realistic approach, along with electronic surveillance. But having established right from the start that we aren't dealing with the real world, Crush can ignore realism as long as verisimilitude is maintained. And the thing is, verisimilitude has higher standards than reality because reality is under no obligation to be either believable or consistent; when Kate suffered her breakdown after giving the drinks guy a beejay, that was absolutely, completely realistic because you never know what straw will break the proverbial; however, it violated verisimilitude because it did not match how Kate had been portrayed up until that time. That's why people were mad: Crush drew the lines and then colored outside of them. The real world does that constantly, but we won't put up with that shit in our fiction.

 

[MrAnarchy]

That is the realistic approach, along with electronic surveillance. But having established right from the start that we aren't dealing with the real world, Crush can ignore realism as long as verisimilitude is maintained. And the thing is, verisimilitude has higher standards than reality because reality is under no obligation to be either believable or consistent; when Kate suffered her breakdown after giving the drinks guy a beejay, that was absolutely, completely realistic because you never know what straw will break the proverbial; however, it violated verisimilitude because it did not match how Kate had been portrayed up until that time. That's why people were mad: Crush drew the lines and then colored outside of them. The real world does that constantly, but we won't put up with that shit in our fiction.

You were able to put into words the problem I had with that scene

 

[aifgamer]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by the time of her BJ nuclear meltdown, Kate has been repeatedly raped by her manager, including during the job interview. She has been forced to give the club owner a BJ in his car while his driver watched and then been forced to fuck him in her room within earshot of the other residents. She has given a drug dealer head to score dope while he filmed her. She has flashed her tits to save $2 on tuktuk fares. She has been groped, spanked and objectified by 100s of customers in the bar..

I'll try to explain more because I do understand why some people see it as dissonant. But for one thing, she isn't ever raped by the manager. Everything she does with him is consensual. It's pretty clear from the context that she likes the manager and likes having sex with him. She isn't forced to do anything with the club owner, either. She could refuse and back out at any time. She goes through with it because it's advancing the mission.

Blowing the cocktail guy doesn't advance the mission at all, he's just some random guy. And it means that she might have to give sexual favors to more random guys, with no immediate end in sight, and with the sunk cost where if she backs out, all the other stuff she did was pointless.

Think about a Hollywood actress who has sex with a producer to get a role, has an ongoing fling with her co-star, takes her top off in some scenes, does objectifying photo shoots and sometimes has promiscuous sex while she's drunk or high at parties. That's still a far cry from being told by the director that she has to give a blowjob to the stunt coordinator just because.

 

[ffive]

when Kate suffered her breakdown after giving the drinks guy a beejay, that was absolutely, completely realistic because you never know what straw will break the proverbial; however, it violated verisimilitude because it did not match how Kate had been portrayed up until that time.

Have you noticed you're contradicting yourself here? You are right: a person can act in certain way for a period of time, but a proverbial straw might eventually break their back, and their facade comes undone. This is indeed realistic, and the very fact that it's a realistic reaction makes the argument "but she was acting differently until now, so this doesn't match" pretty much hollow.

The MC had enough of mental fortitude to carry on through something she wasn't comfortable with. It doesn't mean she'd be comfortable with it infinitely, nor that she'd have to face even more drastic situation to break down. Sometimes it's the small things.

If it doesn't fit your personal idea of what's "believable" which exceeds the reality... well, then it's unfortunate, but i don't feel like the writer is at any real fault here if they didn't meet those expectations.

But this is very much the repeat of the same tired argument that this thread went over multiple times by now, i don't think there's any real merit in dragging it on.

 

[MrAnarchy]

I'll try to explain more because I do understand why some people see it as dissonant. But for one thing, she isn't ever raped by the manager. Everything she does with him is consensual. It's pretty clear from the context that she likes the manager and likes having sex with him. She isn't forced to do anything with the club owner, either. She could refuse and back out at any time. She goes through with it because it's advancing the mission.

Blowing the cocktail guy doesn't advance the mission at all, he's just some random guy. And it means that she might have to give sexual favors to more random guys, with no immediate end in sight, and with the sunk cost where if she backs out, all the other stuff she did was pointless.

Think about a Hollywood actress who has sex with a producer to get a role, has an ongoing fling with her co-star, takes her top off in some scenes, does objectifying photo shoots and sometimes has promiscuous sex while she's drunk or high at parties. That's still a far cry from being told by the director that she has to give a blowjob to the stunt coordinator just because.

The first time she has sex with Connor is during the interview in his apartment where he pins her to the wall and sticks it in her without warning.

 

[MrAnarchy]

Have you noticed you're contradicting yourself here? You are right: a person can act in certain way for a period of time, but a proverbial straw might eventually break their back, and their facade comes undone. This is indeed realistic, and the very fact that it's a realistic reaction makes the argument "but she was acting differently until now, so this doesn't match" pretty much hollow.

The MC had enough of mental fortitude to carry on through something she wasn't comfortable with. It doesn't mean she'd be comfortable with it infinitely, nor that she'd have to face even more drastic situation to break down. Sometimes it's the small things.

If it doesn't fit your personal idea of what's "believable" which exceeds the reality... well, then it's unfortunate, but i don't feel like the writer is at any real fault here if they didn't meet those expectations.

But this is very much the repeat of the same tired argument that this thread went over multiple times by now, i don't think there's any real merit in dragging it on.

Because her reaction ISN’T the “straw breaking the camel’s back” or her realizing what she’s been doing. It’s very clearly her having a meltdown because she’s shocked they are asking her to do something sexual.

Ultimately it’s a scene that should have been much much earlier in the story. Because in the end, that’s what this is, a story and when you are writing a story you have to make sure your scenes flow together with the natural progression of the narrative.
While this scene might have been “realistic” it has totally fucked up the flow of the story because it is so out of place with where we’re at in the plot by this point.

On its own, yeah, the scene is good. But placed where it is the story now? It’s as if the editor made a mistake and placed Chapter 4 after Chapter 7.

 

[MrAnarchy]

What makes this scene even more frustrating is there was already a scene in the story that was PERFECT for a emotional breakdown moment.

The chapter where she goes on a date with the Big Boss( I forgot how to spell his name, it starts with a K)

during the whole date with her, he’s basically treating her like the high class escort they want her to become.

Picks her up in a nice car.

Wines and dines her.

Then she’s made to give him a blowjob in the backseat in full view of the driver WHILE he’s on the phone treating her sucking his dick like an afterthought.

Then he takes her back to HER place and fucks her hard enough for her fellow guests to hear.

And to top it off, he demeans her during the sex and calls her lazy.

Then after cumming inside her, he just leaves and she’s left having to decide whether to go downstairs and face her fellow tourists or stay in her room.

That should have been when she broke down. That should have been when she threw up. That should have been where she wonders if she could really do this.

Because now, her hostel, her one sorta “safe space” where she can decompress and be a normal pert with her roommates has been shattered. Her hostel buddies will never look at her the same way again and now she has be “HCC” all the time.

In fact, if I remember correctly, she doesn’t come out of her room at all the next day because she’s so embarrassed. The foundations for an emotional crisis scene were there, but they were passed over and then just plopped into this random bj scene with no build up or context.

 

[aifgamer]

The first time she has sex with Connor is during the interview in his apartment where he pins her to the wall and sticks it in her without warning.

That's not what happens. He tells her he's going to grope her, then he gropes her. Then she has a chance to walk out before he tries to fuck her.

You stare into his eyes. Is it even still up to you? You're naked and pinned against the wall, impaled on his finger. But he's waiting for a signal.

He doesn't want to rape me, you realise. He wants permission.

In a way, that's worse, more humiliating. Willingly trading your body for a job that pays peanuts. Connor stares probingly into your eyes. Like he's trying to work out who you are.

Fuck it. I've already gone this far. Okay. You open your mouth to say it, but it doesn't come out. It feels too much like surrender. Your mouth's dry and you need to lick your lips.

You nod instead. It's a slight gesture, but you know he understands what it means.

 

[Vibesy]

That's not what happens. He tells her he's going to grope her, then he gropes her. Then she has a chance to walk out before he tries to fuck her.

Sorry, but I think your POV is pretty ridiculous here. Some key passages:


You turn your face aside, getting stubbly kisses on your cheek and neck instead.

His weight presses into you, squashing you up against the cold wall. His hand slaps up against your crotch, feeling the wetness there. Then, totally unceremoniously, his finger sinks up inside your wet pussy, all the way to the knuckle.

You try to squirm away, but he must be 60lbs heavier than you, and you can't move him.

Is it even still up to you? You're naked and pinned against the wall, impaled on his finger.


This is text book sexual assault via digital insertion and would also be classified as rape in numerous states/countries. Kate is pinned against the wall by a much larger man with no way to get help and with the real possibility of violence if she refuses. She is being physically threatened and therefore any consent would be viewed as coerced and involuntary. And she is so emotional that she can't even verbally consent. Crush has tried to write the scene in various ways to add some ambiguity, but it is pretty obvious to most readers that this was not a consensual sexual encounter.

 

[Aillor Nailo]

I also remember that she asks for a condom (he doesn't care) and she explicitly says "do not cum inside" and he does it anyways. That is not very consensual and it is probably considered rape or sexual assault in many countries.

But it is the encounter itself that is strange, it should never had occurred. It only makes sense if Crush needs to add sex events to please patreons and therefore ignore realism for that, otherwise both Connor and Kriangsak sex at this point are unnecessary. They could occur later, when Kate has gone further down her corruption.

 

[aifgamer]

This is text book sexual assault via digital insertion and would also be classified as rape in numerous states/countries. Kate is pinned against the wall by a much larger man with no way to get help and with the real possibility of violence if she refuses. She is being physically threatened and therefore any consent would be viewed as coerced and involuntary.

Except the literal text of the internal monologue states that she believes it's consensual, so none of this matters.

 

[Vibesy]

Except the literal text of the internal monologue states that she believes it's consensual, so none of this matters.

That's called rationalization. Many victims of rape or incest feel guilty or somehow responsible for what happened and make excuses for the rapist. It doesn't in any way change the power dynamics of the scene. Like it or not, Kate is passively enabling her victimization. She submits to Connor, "consenting" to the forced sex, rather than try to honeypot or manipulate him. Submissive/masochist Kate is pretty much the only thing this game gives us.

 

[aifgamer]

That's called rationalization. Many victims of rape or incest feel guilty or somehow responsible for what happened and make excuses for the rapist. It doesn't in any way change the power dynamics of the scene. Like it or not, Kate is passively enabling her victimization. She submits to Connor, "consenting" to the forced sex, rather than try to honeypot or manipulate him. Submissive/masochist Kate is pretty much the only thing this game gives us.

You're arguing like a lawyer trying to put a fictional character on trial for sexual assault. None of these arguments are relevant in a discussion of what her actual mindset is, which is the only thing relevant here. The scene is consensual because the internal monologue explicitly says it is.

 

[Vibesy]

Believe wh

You're arguing like a lawyer trying to put a fictional character on trial for sexual assault. None of these arguments are relevant in a discussion of what her actual mindset is, which is the only thing relevant here. The scene is consensual because the internal monologue explicitly says it is.

Believe what you want to believe. The entire scene is written as a sexual assault with explicit coercion:

You try to squirm away, pushing off the wall this time for more strength. You can still barely move him. "Get off," you whine, shoving your palms against his meaty chest.

"Eaaasy," he urges, pinning your shoulder back into the wall with his free hand. His finger's still up inside you, but he keeps it still.

"Ten grand a month," he reminds you, his face so close you can feel his breath. "Fer a slag with no tits and no blue book. You want it? Earn it."


Refuse sex with Connor and he calls Kate a "prick tease" and kicks her out. Not only does she not get the job, but it's also back to Faslane and game over. You don't need to be a lawyer to see that Crush wrote the scene with coerced sex with Connor the only real option.

 

[aifgamer]

Believe what you want to believe.

Yes, I will believe the literally stated internal monologue of the character.

You will get a gold star for your definitions and categorizations when you turn in your sex education class homework, though. Good job.

 

[MrAnarchy]

Yes, I will believe the literally stated internal monologue of the character.

You will get a gold star for your definitions and categorizations when you turn in your sex education class homework, though. Good job.

Nuance is lost on you it appears.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

Nuance is lost on you it appears.

No no, let him cook. I want to see his interpretation on the plethroa of literary works where the protagonist has some internal monologue that doesn't match reality (be it purely a literary work for entertainment or a philosophy book)

 

[aifgamer]

No no, let him cook. I want to see his interpretation on the plethroa of literary works where the protagonist has some internal monologue that doesn't match reality (be it purely a literary work for entertainment or a philosophy book)

The internal monologue of the character doesn't match the reality of that character's own internal thoughts? What?

There's no unreliable narrator issue here because the only thing that matters is what the protagonist thinks is happening. If she doesn't think she was raped, she can't have a traumatic reaction to being raped.