Sixty

Member
Oct 1, 2017
173
529
So where's your successful game / book / community? By which I mean people willingly compensated you with their money for your work.

I didn't even know that you were writing erotica before I guessed it. Your shame is that, if you understand what is required, you won't take your own advice and make a game yourself.

I would both either: love to play your game; or hear your explanation as to why you learned it's so difficult to make a game and failed.

There's only so long you can sit in the backseat telling people how to drive before someone offers you the wheel.

Here's the wheel: you drive.
That's silly. Are we not allowed to criticize politicians unless we've been elected? Can we not say a meal is bad unless we're chefs? I've never driven under the influence, does that mean I can't criticize the drunk that crashed into the light pole outside my house?

Really dumb argument.
 

Senor Smut

Member
Aug 11, 2020
220
858
So where's your successful game / book / community? By which I mean people willingly compensated you with their money for your work.

I didn't even know that you were writing erotica before I guessed it. Your shame is that, if you understand what is required, you won't take your own advice and make a game yourself.

I would both either: love to play your game; or hear your explanation as to why you learned it's so difficult to make a game and failed.

There's only so long you can sit in the backseat telling people how to drive before someone offers you the wheel.

Here's the wheel: you drive.
Well, you see, I'm in mourning. My beloved wife of 17 years went to the doctor for procedure to remove a hangnail, but instead the doctor cut her into 148 pieces and DID NOT remove the hangnail. Some might call that murder, some might call that malpractice, but not me. I've never removed a hangnail so I can't criticize. After all, we are only ever allowed to criticize people when we know we can do their job better than they can no matter what they might do.
 

boobthief

Member
May 25, 2017
473
1,162
That's silly. Are we not allowed to criticize politicians unless we've been elected? Can we not say a meal is bad unless we're chefs?
Yeah, just don't pretend you can do better if you have no ideas yourself.

I've never driven under the influence, does that mean I can't criticize the drunk that crashed into the light pole outside my house?

Really dumb argument.
No. That's a at best and at worst. This has fuck all to do with drunk drivers endangering your property or life.

You shouldn't need anyone's permission to criticize, least of all mine. But I'd like to see you back up your arguments with how you in exactly the same circumstances would do better and an answer for why, if it's so fucking easy, you don't.

Ball's in your court, threatened homeowner near to the light pole targeted by the intoxicated.
 

boobthief

Member
May 25, 2017
473
1,162
Well, you see, I'm in mourning. My beloved wife of 17 years went to the doctor for procedure to remove a hangnail, but instead the doctor cut her into 148 pieces and DID NOT remove the hangnail. Some might call that murder, some might call that malpractice, but not me. I've never removed a hangnail so I can't criticize. After all, we are only ever allowed to criticize people when we know we can do their job better than they can no matter what they might do.
You clearly have a powerful and creative imagination. You, at one point, at least, cared about this game, so much that you are here spending your time wishing it would be better.

I see you have at least (presumably many more).

Instead of wasting your time on someone you feel is scamming you or everyone, why just not do better yourself and eat their lunch?

There's a board here on F95 for collaboration if you need help with programming, art, etc.

No kidding, I'd love to play your game. I do think you would find it significantly harder to make than you imagine (several have tried to make this game and not found success) but.... why not channel your energy into something positive?
 

Sixty

Member
Oct 1, 2017
173
529
Yeah, just don't pretend you can do better if you have no ideas yourself.



No. That's a at best and at worst. This has fuck all to do with drunk drivers endangering your property or life.

You shouldn't need anyone's permission to criticize, least of all mine. But I'd like to see you back up your arguments with how you in exactly the same circumstances would do better and an answer for why, if it's so fucking easy, you don't.

Ball's in your court, threatened homeowner near to the light pole targeted by the intoxicated.
Well, no. It's not a strawman. It's an analogy. It directly addressed your argument, such as it was. To be a strawman, it would have to address an argument you had not made. And it's definitely not whataboutism. That would be bringing up something completely unrelated to duck the original point, i.e. my idiot uncle bringing up Qanon or Hillary's emails every time Trump's latest scandal comes on the news.

What you did was, in fact, a logical fallacy. One does not need to have made a game to criticize a game.

ETA: Just from a probability standpoint, what are the odds you'd end up being educated on logic by two people published on the same smutty story site at the same time? I'm SixtyMinuteMan on Literotica. That has to be six digits to one on the probability scale, right? Wow.
 
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Senor Smut

Member
Aug 11, 2020
220
858
You clearly have a powerful and creative imagination. You, at one point, at least, cared about this game, so much that you are here spending your time wishing it would be better.

I see you have at least (presumably many more).

Instead of wasting your time on someone you feel is scamming you or everyone, why just not do better yourself and eat their lunch?

There's a board here on F95 for collaboration if you need help with programming, art, etc.

No kidding, I'd love to play your game. I do think you would find it significantly harder to make than you imagine (several have tried to make this game and not found success) but.... why not channel your energy into something positive?
Years ago when I discovered H-games (I was VERY late to the party) I decided to try my hand at writing one -- not coding, just writing. It was a simple story (best to start simple for your first stab at anything) about a rich asshole who was magically cursed to very slowly transform into an airheaded bimbo. It would have started out mostly railroad but with more and more choice as you went so exactly what sort of bimbo you wound up as was up to you, as was your final state. It was going really well and I had maybe 45% done, and then I lost it all in a hard drive crash (my own faulty for not backing it up, I'm the first to admit) and I lost the ambition to do it. Since then I've occasionally been bitten by the bug and have done outlines and such, but I failed for the same reason that it takes me four to six months to write a chapter in one of my Lit stories: I have (literally) crippling depression and PTSD, which means that the days I can do anything productive are few and far between. I'm very proud of what I write (mostly because I write strictly for myself and don't give a damn if anyone else likes it or not) but my writing is SLOW.

But my criticism of Crush isn't centered around the quality of the game (which, gripes aside, is certainly in the upper quarter of H-games I've played). It's centered around the fact that he's raking in tons of money because he has convinced suckers to give it to him to do literally nothing almost all the time. My criticism is that he's a cynical scammer. And I shall not be convinced that you have to be a better cynical scammer than someone else before you can criticize them for cynically scamming. At this point I'm lumping him in with MLM people and cult leaders -- he's making a damned good living lying to people's faces and making them love it. And that is something I have never wanted to emulate.
 
Dec 26, 2018
87
389
It's the storytelling where he falls down. There's nothing new or earthshaking about honey traps (which is the correct term, even though he says honey *pot* in the game). Every intelligence agency has used them and is using them right now. So there's way too much angst and way too much acting like nobody's sure how to deal with it at the CIA. They're plenty used to agents, male and female, fucking for the sake of their cover.
...
There's just no way on earth her CIA bosses would ever act shocked or discourage her from partying it up for her cover. They'll tell you right up front that you may need to do drugs for your cover, or "get close" to someone, etc. Hell, if your cover requires that you be comfortable with drugs, they'll supply the blow to get you used to it. The CIA doesn't clutch its pearls.
Exactly my feelings as well. The CIA has been knee deep in all sorts of scandalous behavior and debauchery since its inception. They've done things like recording sex tapes to be used as blackmail, pushing drugs to pay for their operations, to even supplying terrorists with weapons to fight wars for them. The idea that an agent they hand picked for this dangerous assignment would be squeamish about being provocative and sexual to play the part is silly. Her colleagues that she's so concerned about aren't your everyday office drones, they're people involved in an international spy operation who have been involved in similar things or worse. I get that Crush is trying to build some kind of tension that plays off shame and sexuality because otherwise the player's actions carry less weight, but it doesn't really make sense in this context here.

I think a really good angle for the game is having the player character realize that she has free license to fuck most anybody and act scandalously because she's using a fake identity. No one she knows will ever learn about what she did, and she has an entire intelligence agency to cover her tracks if there are any. If Crush wants to create that tension using the player character's concern for her reputation I think it should be created within the specific operation itself using the people she encounters on assignment. For example her being overly slutty might get her closer to the target faster but she may lose friends with other bargirls and be shamed by them.

My point here is just the whole corruption angle is hard to pull off for a CIA field agent you know? This kind of assignment requires the agent to fit a certain personality profile to even be considered. Someone squeamish about basically being a sex worker in a developing country would never be assigned to this operation.
 

boobthief

Member
May 25, 2017
473
1,162
Well, no. It's not a strawman. It's an analogy. It directly addressed your argument, such as it was. To be a strawman, it would have to address an argument you had not made. And it's definitely not whataboutism. That would be bringing up something completely unrelated to duck the original point, i.e. my idiot uncle bringing up Qanon or Hillary's emails every time Trump's latest scandal comes on the news.
Do you just not remember what you said or did yesterday? You absolutely made a strawman argument. You equated criticism of a game developer with criticism of drunk drivers, who are obviously typically socially indefensible pariahs. These are not the same thing and appealing to an extreme opposite is whataboutism, like you didn't get a free game is the same as the developer endangering your life.

I called you out on your bullshit because you are desperately trying to cancel the game you love. Now you're talking about your "idiot uncle", like embarrassing your family doesn't embarrass you? What happened to you? What's the matter with you?

ETA: Just from a probability standpoint, what are the odds you'd end up being educated on logic by two people published on the same smutty story site at the same time? I'm SixtyMinuteMan on Literotica. That has to be six digits to one on the probability scale, right? Wow.
So, you're a creative. That's great! But I can't find your stories searching for "SixtyMinuteMan". Can you post a link / URL?
 

boobthief

Member
May 25, 2017
473
1,162
Years ago when I discovered H-games (I was VERY late to the party) I decided to try my hand at writing one -- not coding, just writing. It was a simple story (best to start simple for your first stab at anything) about a rich asshole who was magically cursed to very slowly transform into an airheaded bimbo. It would have started out mostly railroad but with more and more choice as you went so exactly what sort of bimbo you wound up as was up to you, as was your final state. It was going really well and I had maybe 45% done, and then I lost it all in a hard drive crash (my own faulty for not backing it up, I'm the first to admit) and I lost the ambition to do it. Since then I've occasionally been bitten by the bug and have done outlines and such, but I failed for the same reason that it takes me four to six months to write a chapter in one of my Lit stories: I have (literally) crippling depression and PTSD, which means that the days I can do anything productive are few and far between. I'm very proud of what I write (mostly because I write strictly for myself and don't give a damn if anyone else likes it or not) but my writing is SLOW.
More power to you for doing what you love to do. I'm sure you have made a lot of people happy / with a happy ending!

But my criticism of Crush isn't centered around the quality of the game (which, gripes aside, is certainly in the upper quarter of H-games I've played). It's centered around the fact that he's raking in tons of money because he has convinced suckers to give it to him to do literally nothing almost all the time. My criticism is that he's a cynical scammer. And I shall not be convinced that you have to be a better cynical scammer than someone else before you can criticize them for cynically scamming. At this point I'm lumping him in with MLM people and cult leaders -- he's making a damned good living lying to people's faces and making them love it. And that is something I have never wanted to emulate.
So it's jealousy tinged with your projecting self-humiliation. That's fucking sad and I think you should take a look at yourself before criticizing others.

Like, only you can have trouble writing, getting things done? Not them, they are the worst scammer, but only you have real world problems?

Jealousy has warped your mind into thinking this game is MLM or a cult. That's outrageously weird.

Dragging someone else down won't make you happy it will just make you more sad. I hope you get help and get better. I hope you focus on your own content that makes a lot of people happy and find purpose and satisfaction in that.
 

Sixty

Member
Oct 1, 2017
173
529
So, you're a creative. That's great! But I can't find your stories searching for "SixtyMinuteMan". Can you post a link / URL?
Looking at your replies to me and to Senor Smut, you don't seem very genuine. Seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. And life's too short.

And my handle comes right up with the author search.
 

robin312

Active Member
Jul 6, 2023
530
1,173
Looking at your replies to me and to Senor Smut, you don't seem very genuine. Seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.
no, we are just ruining his business model little by little with our's conversations and he feels pressure because some suckers may read it here and stop obidiently pay
Less suckers -> less money -> and voila! you need to consider deadlines and make something other than "I removed half of the text, because it was bad and I decided to exclude from release 80% of content I promiced. Sorry, guys. I need another half of the year to write something you would read for 20 mins"
 

rbx4

Member
Jan 21, 2018
244
311
Looking at your replies to me and to Senor Smut, you don't seem very genuine. Seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. And life's too short.

And my handle comes right up with the author search.
That person won't ever give up, sadly. They will say that they will constantly fall on any available nearby sword for the sake of defending creators' right to create, even though nobody is stopping anyone from creating. Additionally, the amount of money gained or lost due to comments on these board seems to be negligible at best, and so it's an entirely pointless crusade. Still, this must be Serious Business to someone, considering the historical and current amount of panic in response to board posts. I shrug at it all. I suggest that the people who need help should get help, but of course that is entirely up to them. There are hotlines for that sort of thing and it's not my job to google it for them (and Denial means they need to do it, not me).

It's also completely pointless to debate definitions with them or others who try to apply Internet terms to you. They used the term on you simply because they want to label you, not because the term had any chance of fitting. Like everywhere else they appear, they hope to here get into a mudfight that gets everyone so dirty that nobody can figure out who is who. I have my popcorn ready for people like them.

Of course the endgame is that a few pages of posts will get deleted from the thread again. I have popcorn for that too.
 
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hallsigns

Newbie
May 1, 2019
61
51
I never got how the player character is supposed to be surprised and deeply mortified that she might have to engage in sexual activity with targets in the first place. Intelligence agencies are no strangers to having their agents use sex for espionage purposes, and it stands to reason that they would at least pick an agent who is ready to use sex to accomplish their goals (especially in such a dangerous setting). I doubt they would use an inexperienced agent for such a mission in the first place with no prior training and mental conditioning for these actions. Especially when she's got top level clearance to info that would compromise several other agents including high ranking ones. The parts of the story where the player character is so concerned about what her coworkers will think of seeing her have sex is kind of nonsensical, in reality they'd be shitting themselves watching this clueless agent who knows their names and faces try to sexually bungle her way into the enemy compound.

The game would have made more sense if the player character was someone who had the skills and psychological profile to be a honeypot/femme-fatale agent using sex to manipulate her way into the enemy organization. That's not to say that the player character wouldn't be traumatized by rape or other violent events, but she wouldn't be as clueless as she is in this story.
A couple of versions ago - there was training, conditioning, backstory that showed the spy's initial training and career in intelligence...
 
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boobthief

Member
May 25, 2017
473
1,162
Looking at your replies to me and to Senor Smut, you don't seem very genuine. Seems like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. And life's too short.

And my handle comes right up with the author search.
Thanks for the link, I didn't find it before. I'm not into gay male sex stories so I won't be reading them but, whether you believe it or not, I do respect anyone who creates because I think that's far more difficult than just criticizing.
 

slavegal

Member
Apr 17, 2020
468
584
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, my ribs. Run on, little troll. Go back to his Discord where people appreciate being taken for a ride.
You guys really need to find something better to squander your time on rather than arguing with someone who gets paid to argue with you. What happens here is nothing new; milking is how they survive, and the figure on Patreon.com is never as simple as it looks; we actually don't know what happens in dev's private bank account or how they manipulate it. Anyway, you don't complain a casino game is unfair; you don't complain a dark market dealer doesn't keep word. Those are not expectations for them; grab whatever they offer and find others, such as spending time on other games here, or go to Steam to support those studios take what they do seriously. Anyway, don't rely on one or two developers here, TBO, many of them are not reliable, and at the end of the day, liability shouldn't be an expectation for them, you are luck if they keep working at all.
 

rbx4

Member
Jan 21, 2018
244
311
What you did was, in fact, a logical fallacy. One does not need to have made a game to criticize a game.
I wanted to add also the exact type of logical fallacy that you correctly cited: It is called "Appeal to accomplishment" and is technically a type of Genetic Fallacy (fallacies of irrelevancy that reject a statement based on the source instead of the statement itself). One nice example of it:

"How dare you criticize the prime minister? What do you know about running an entire country?"
or:

"I'll take your opinions on music seriously when you've released a record that went platinum."
Yet, this fallacy gets a great deal of mileage around here from people who rely entirely upon it. There's nothing new about that. There are recorded occasions of rejecting it from as far back as 1791, and I wouldn't be surprised to find rejections of it earlier than that.
 
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