HTML Abandoned Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[johnysanchez01]

For some reason game devs try and do them all at once and imo it's harder to keep track of, takes focus off of doing one thing, and extends update times by double or triple so there is less game to play with longer waiting periods.

I think this is because the writers aren't even thinking about routes, rather they're envisioning a more sandboxed RPG concept where the character has more options to roleplay as opposed to locking themselves in within strict routes like a visual novel.
The problem is that this concept is **extremely** difficult to pull off because it requires that the dev account for so many scenarios and combinations of scenarios in order to make choices feel meaningful. It creates this sort of exponential amount of work as the story gets further along.
Your idea about writing and finishing specific routes is what many of these devs should be doing. This way they can reduce the amount of gigantic plot holes and wacky character development that can happen by locking in certain routes based on important decisions, and then focus on giving options within those routes.

 

[Ravnen]

I think this is because the writers aren't even thinking about routes, rather they're envisioning a more sandboxed RPG concept where the character has more options to roleplay as opposed to locking themselves in within strict routes like a visual novel.
The problem is that this concept is **extremely** difficult to pull off because it requires that the dev account for so many scenarios and combinations of scenarios in order to make choices feel meaningful. It creates this sort of exponential amount of work as the story gets further along.
Your idea about writing and finishing specific routes is what many of these devs should be doing. This way they can reduce the amount of gigantic plot holes and wacky character development that can happen by locking in certain routes based on important decisions, and then focus on giving options within those routes.

Dont call this an rpg.. In rpg you have choices and your choices matter. In this one its "do this or game over"..

 

[johnysanchez01]

Dont call this an rpg.. In rpg you have choices and your choices matter. In this one its "do this or game over"..

Oh yeah I'm not saying this is a (good) RPG, I'm just saying that this is what the devs may be envisioning because the myriad of choices they have going on that are struggling to go anywhere seems to indicate that.

 

[Ravnen]

Oh yeah I'm not saying this is a (good) RPG, I'm just saying that this is what the devs may be envisioning because the myriad of choices they have going on that are struggling to go anywhere seems to indicate that.

I really dont know any more what the Dev is planning with this game.. Its like its gotten to big for him to manage..

 

[Alleykatt]

The problem is that this concept is **extremely** difficult to pull off because it requires that the dev account for so many scenarios and combinations of scenarios in order to make choices feel meaningful. It creates this sort of exponential amount of work as the story gets further along.

I don't think that is necessarily true. All it needs is a modular approach. For example, you could have a variable that tracks suspicion, where not doing certain compromising acts raises suspicion. This would allow our agent to step back from some events, but then they raise suspicion and are then limited in other spy routes. Then you have modular spy sub-goals or missions that you can fail, but if you succeed you get extra intel or some other tangible benefit. Have a little tension in the game with the ability to fail outright by either being discovered or pulled off if suspicion gets too high or if the mission isn't yielding enough intel. And this is just with 5 minutes thought - I am sure Crush could come up with more sophisticated ideas, like maybe gaining trust of individual coworkers and playing them off against each other, but having to choose which one to focus on.

 

[Senor Smut]

I don't think that is necessarily true. All it needs is a modular approach. For example, you could have a variable that tracks suspicion, where not doing certain compromising acts raises suspicion. This would allow our agent to step back from some events, but then they raise suspicion and are then limited in other spy routes. Then you have modular spy sub-goals or missions that you can fail, but if you succeed you get extra intel or some other tangible benefit. Have a little tension in the game with the ability to fail outright by either being discovered or pulled off if suspicion gets too high or if the mission isn't yielding enough intel. And this is just with 5 minutes thought - I am sure Crush could come up with more sophisticated ideas, like maybe gaining trust of individual coworkers and playing them off against each other, but having to choose which one to focus on.

But Crush also has a massive problem with implementation. He took seven months to produce an update that was at least half stuff that's already been done and said in more or less the exact same way, by the exact same characters...what, three times now? Four? Any additional work is guaranteed to paralyze him. It wouldn't be a big deal if he were a competent developer, but he's spent the past seven years proving that he's not.

 

[Senor Smut]

...especially if you go around writing that you're working your ass off, 6 hours a day, 5 days a week...

If only. His updates always claim he's working between 10 and 16 hour days. That's 70-118 hours per week, to produce...well, just look at it.

 

[robin312]

It wouldn't be a big deal if he were a competent developer, but he's spent the past seven years proving that he's not.

To develop novel you need to be a good writer, not a good developer
It requires just some basic development skill that any person can learn

Frankly speaking there are a lot of writers that can write a good text, but their completely mediocre in creating a fascinating plot and vice versa

And there is a proven solution for such guys: they work in pair and together they may achieve things that they can't do separately. It works like skill multiplication

For me it's clear that only goal Crush has is making money. He doesn't want to create a good game, share his fantasy with us, because otherwise he would find someone who would cover his weak parts with one's strong ones.

It's obvious that Crush a good writer, but he can't craft a good plot and he needs someone who has the ideas.
It's obvious that Crush understands it himself much better than anyone

Did he change anything?
No.
And that big "No" speaks about everything

 

[robin312]

if I was writing a game I would have to sit down for a week a few hours every day and really work through what I want and develop the plot first before i even start writing etc

this is the way

 

[Derrida]

I'm sceptical of the idea that the story is not ready to move into bargirl territory. Revisit the premise. Produce a threat to our heroine's cover or create some urgency -- Devilfish might be winding down his operations in the club because he's suspicious -- or both! Make things as difficult as possible for her. If you don't commit, you'll be fired and Devilfish will escape.

 

[Senor Smut]

I'm sceptical of the idea that the story is not ready to move into bargirl territory. Revisit the premise. Produce a threat to our heroine's cover or create some urgency -- Devilfish might be winding down his operations in the club because he's suspicious -- or both! Make things as difficult as possible for her. If you don't commit, you'll be fired and Devilfish will escape.

The story had been ready for her to bargirl for a long time now. Kate has been ready to bargirl for a while. Crush is not ready for Kate to bargirl because he's averse to creating new content and because advancing the story to that point means that the gravy train is one step closer to running out of track.

 

[CreativeCritic2]

But Crush also has a massive problem with implementation. He took seven months to produce an update that was at least half stuff that's already been done and said in more or less the exact same way, by the exact same characters...what, three times now? Four? Any additional work is guaranteed to paralyze him. It wouldn't be a big deal if he were a competent developer, but he's spent the past seven years proving that he's not.

I think this is what makes the planning and project-management discourse so funny...

You can have the greatest architect in the world, the best on-site foreman, the best just-in-time supply lines, the best tools and the largest workforce but your dream home isn't getting built until someone actually bothers to pick up a shovel or starts mixing concrete.

This is like hiring someone to fix a toilet only to discover that, after seven years, he's still not fixed the toilet and whenever you get upset and complain, he goes quiet for three months and then emerges with a power-point presentation detailing an ambitious 18-month programme that will eventually result in a fixed toilet.

At this point, the project doesn't need more detailed planning or a more hands-on style of project management. It needs someone to sit down and do some actual writing.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

I think this is what makes the planning and project-management discourse so funny...

You can have the greatest architect in the world, the best on-site foreman, the best just-in-time supply lines, the best tools and the largest workforce but your dream home isn't getting built until someone actually bothers to pick up a shovel or starts mixing concrete.

This is like hiring someone to fix a toilet only to discover that, after seven years, he's still not fixed the toilet and whenever you get upset and complain, he goes quiet for three months and then emerges with a power-point presentation detailing an ambitious 18-month programme that will eventually result in a fixed toilet.

At this point, the project doesn't need more detailed planning or a more hands-on style of project management. It needs someone to sit down and do some actual writing.

This is mostly true. The mostly comes from the fact that he is also mostly writing, but always rewriting and "it's not hot enough" (Seriously, every single patreon post has those words). "Management" in the form of someone saying "I don't care if you think it's not hot enough, it has to go out by next week so finish what you have" can be useful and avoid wasted time.

 

[Senor Smut]

This is mostly true. The mostly comes from the fact that he is also mostly writing, but always rewriting and "it's not hot enough" (Seriously, every single patreon post has those words). "Management" in the form of someone saying "I don't care if you think it's not hot enough, it has to go out by next week so finish what you have" can be useful and avoid wasted time.

I agree with you, deadlines and someone to hold him to them would be incredibly beneficial in bringing this project closer to completion. That is exactly why Crush would never implement such a system.

 

[vicaddict]

The funniest thing about it is that Crush himself is supposedly a project manager and, dare I say, a pretty good one. If you accept that the project is to drag out the game for as long as you can in order to rake in the monthly donations that is.

I mean, I have been a fan of the life path prior to this. However, I always pointed out that it would make more sense to include it sooner rather than later, if you ever wanted to do so, simply because the more you progress with the story, the harder it would become to make it fit. Now he wants to include a life path that is full of choices, skills, mechanics and what not and he wants to include all of this in a "game" that is completely disconnected from any of this. The game is not using any of the half dozen mechanics that he introduced at some point. How would he even begin to make any of that to matter? How would he track stats and attributes that have only ever been used in one update? Heck, the game even has place holder images from years ago, because he couldn't be bothered to actually finish what he started.

This is an insane case study of how much his cult is willing to put up with. This is what it is a this point - a cult of believers who are so deep into the whole thing that they would rather lie to themselves, instead of accepting reality.

 

[orellion]

The dev is a perfectionist which is both a blessing and curse in making these games.

 

[ffive]

The dev is a perfectionist which is both a blessing and curse in making these games.

I don't think this holds true, given the dev is perfectly happy to release updates filled with placeholders (thai thai thai thai etc) and broken, unimplemented or abandoned features, and then let this state of things persist for literal months if not years at this point.

The only quality check they seem to employ is "do i want to wank to this?" which, don't get me wrong, is important for a porn game, but far from perfectionism.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

I don't think this holds true, given the dev is perfectly happy to release updates filled with placeholders (thai thai thai thai etc) and broken, unimplemented or abandoned features, and then let this state of things persist for literal months if not years at this point.

The only quality check they seem to employ is "do i want to wank to this?" which, don't get me wrong, is important for a porn game, but far from perfectionism.

He's just the perfectionist that can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[robin312]

He's just the perfectionist that can't see the forest for the trees.

That's the biggest delusion
He is smart guy who finds a way to make money without too much work

 

[Senor Smut]

Crushstation — Today at 12:18 PM
Crushstation posted on Patreon & Subscribestar: Mapping out the valley filled with clouds (JUN 9, 2024 AT 18:13) @Notification Squad

“[It’s] what I call ‘The Valley Filled with Clouds’ technique. You’re at the edge of the valley, and there is a church steeple, and there is a tree, and there is a rocky outcrop, but the rest of it is mist. But you know that because they exist, there must be ways of getting from one to the other that you cannot see. And so you start the journey.”
–Terry Pratchett

Female Agent has always been a valley filled with clouds: I’ve planned out the major plot points in advance, but not the exact paths between them. I always feel like I’m under pressure to produce content so, as soon as I’ve got a half-decent plan, I set off on writing the next episode.


It’s possible to over-plan
I’ve always been wary of over-planning. Some planning is great, and I’d never want to start anything important with no plan – but, in my experience, over-planning wastes time and stifles creativity. I think it can encourage project paralysis, and even cowardice: it’s much easier and more comfortable to be planning (which, by definition, can’t fail) instead of actually delivering work (which can fail and humiliate you).


But it’s also possible to under-plan
That said – I think some of the problems with slow delivery and not-hot-enough episodes can basically be traced to me getting lost in the valley filled with clouds. The problem is that it is filled with fucking clouds and it takes me a while to find the right path.


Current project
I’m currently trying to fix this by planning out all the remaining episodes in medium-level detail. The Mother of All Beat Sheets. I’d always thought this much planning would be a waste of time, but – now I’m doing it – it’s just obviously the right thing to do.

For example, yesterday and today, I was trying to fix an episode in the outline (set in the club) that just felt flat and slow. After some thought and stress, I realised I could hit the same story beat by bringing forward an episode planned for much later (set outside the club).

This fix took one day; it feels like the kind of problem that would have caused weeks of stress and significant rewrites if I’d encountered it on the ground in the valley filled with clouds. So I think that, if I prioritise finishing this process now, it will more than pay for itself in smoother and faster production of episodes in the future.

I can tell it’s intellectually demanding work because I’m frazzled at the end of each day. I’m going to take the evening off and get an early start tomorrow. Have a lovely Sunday evening guys! I’ll report progress next week."


After seven years of working on this game, he's...planning to work on this game.