- Nov 26, 2017
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Some type of psychological blackmail while still maintaining a charismatic approach would be refreshing.
Female Protag Corruption games and what is wrong with them.
- Thread starter DarthSeduction
- Start date
Dude, you have a job now. A trope to write: Player Antagonist
Do it, or I will and then I'll take all the credit for the awesome trope
You definitely should play Claire's Quest. That's a game right up your alley, even if it's not exactly "good" in my opinion, or particularly complete. Literally the first characters you come across in the game proper are some corrupt guards that want money to let you pass - and you can't suck them off or anything? What gives? Anyhow, it's still that exact type of game you're looking for.
I'm the guy who advocated for "Girl protagonist should actually be into getting molested / abused and should engineer those things to happen" - That's just one solution, the problem is that most games are in a vaguely modern, western, contemporary setting and it's just fairly difficult to molest/blackmail/rape a girl and get away with it in the west. Not impossible, mind you, but when you're in a situation where that's the #1 kink in the game and literally every male character in the game is a vile rapist blackmailer, you have to make up too many blackmail schemes for them to all make sense, and the ones that don't make sense make the protagonist that goes along with them just look like a retard. Or to maximize the amount of out-of-context quotability in this post: Rape and molestation are just far too rare in the first world nowadays.
That's why games that do it right don't take place in the first world in modern times, like Claire's Quest.
Interesting take. However, I'd make use of Weinstein. Literally, take a look at confessionals from women who are getting molested in the workplace, and appropriate their horror for this pleasure. I mentioned cornering a few times, and this is so popular a method that it even gets used to denote romance in multiple films. In fact, anyone who wants to write good molester fantasy should watch
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video. It is actually a condemnation about sexual assault being used as romance in films, but would help anyone learn how to write this kind of stuff.
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video is also a good one, it deals with the "born sexy yesterday" trope.Weinstein and the "Casting Couch" are real things, but the point is, the women did go along with it, because they received starring roles and hush money in return. The company paid out like 20 women over the years just so they'd shut up. But that's just 1 character in the end. You think these women were "horrified"? These ladies doth protest too much, me thinks. I'm not some 18 year old prom queen from the midwest hoping to make it big in hollywood, but I never had any illusions that Hollywood isn't a sleazy place full of sleazy people and, frankly, good-looking whores who will price themselves up. If you break it down, a real Weinstein-based porn game wouldn't be interesting, whether with a female nor a male protagonist. For a female "actress" protagonist it's just "Do you fuck this or that guy to advance your career" (hot, arguably) and for the male "Weinstein" protagonist it's "Can you bully this or that dumb slut into giving herself to you with the limited amount of star-making power you have", where it becomes an actual management game because that "star making power" is really the currency you are trading.
As for that video, it goes something like this: "The horrible implication is that when women say no, they don't really mean it" and "the myth that women respond positively to male aggression" - But that's how it is, kiddo. For "Born Sexy Yesterday", I consider it a bit of a hack, especially when you work it out to "Woman in the modern world getting molested a lot", but then that is no more a hack trope than "Love Potion" and "Hypnotized by the cock" and a bunch of other tropes that we've seen in porn games frequently. "Born Sexy Yesterday" would at least be somewhat fresh in the current porn game market. If you set up the whole scenario so the things that you consider your kink can happen, it'll be easier to write. In "Annas Exciting Affection", Annas literal brain damage is meant to be a plot explanation why she becomes a cheating, horny slut. But as the game developed more and more content, Anna doesn't act like a horny slut at all (most of the time), the writer failed to remember what he was writing and got derailed with the molestation kink. Or it's a case "he can't write adult heterosexual interactions". Also, from having known a woman or two IRL, I can affirm that you do not need brain damage to be a horny slut. Unless you consider "being a young woman" to be constituent of brain damage. Which you certainly might, but then the same applies to young dudes too.
There are plenty of stories of Weinstein using the more specific and predatory methods in the video I linked. For instance, catching them in an elevator, or cornering them in a motel room or his office.
As for the "she say's no but she really wants it" idea, no I don't buy it. If she says no she's not getting fucked by me no matter how much she wanted it. She can fuck off with her coy bullshit. I'm a feminist, if you want sex be up fucking front about it. I will be, so do me the courtesy of reciprocation.
As for hollywood being full of whores, ehhhh, it depends. There are definitely a lot of cases where it's worse than that. Especially with child actors. I think there's a lot of changing that has to happen in society though, because sure, the ladies did go along with it, but only because they almost had to to achieve their goals. No one should be in that situation in the first place, so I think it's wrong to blame them for following their ambition. And the degradation they felt from it is more than likely real.
I agree that the "born sexy yesterday" trope is a cop out, however it could also be really fun to play with, and not just in a molestation game. Imagine a Tron Legacy or 5th Element style BSY who is a Vis Major type character, I think that could be a lot of fun.
Weinstein had NO GAME, he was essentially a complete dork that hit on girls like a retard, and because he was a gateway to hollywood success, he sometimes succeeded at that. He didn't have to be suave or ballsy, he was a dorky faggot, and yet more than enough women probably just threw themselves at him in hopes of starring roles. That's kind of the curse when you're super rich and famous, women just throw themselves at you anyways and you don't need to develop any sort of game.
Look, I'm with you on the "fuck the coy bullshit", I prefer my girls lewd and aggressive, but most women simply aren't on board with that. I'm not a feminist, I think feminism is the worst thing that has happened to women (and men) in the last 60 years. Women love playing little social games. Have you ever heard of a "shit test"? It's basically when a woman gives you shit, only to see how you react to it - to test you. Women do that all the time, instinctively, because they always want to test the men if they're as bad ass as they pretend to be. They're pretty good at sniffing out pretenders that way, because men have this annoying tendency to brag and pretend they're way more bad ass than they are. Women are gonna give you shit even if they want to fuck you, just to make sure you're the bad ass guy they wish you are. And what's more bad ass than straight up fucking a girl that said no? Women are into that, just look at womens "romance novels", it's full of manly men who don't take no for an answer.
Yeah, in that case it's frequently a case of kids being literally pimped out by their parents. Like, that 14 year old girl that Polanski "raped"? Her mother basically shoved her into the room and said have fun, I'll be back tomorrow. I can barely blame Polanski there, because if you don't liquor the 14 year old hottie up and fuck her, you're basically a confirmed faggot. That mother deserves a flogging more than Polanski does, that's just not something a good mother should do.
I think misinterpretations of Feminism are bad. But there's no arguing that it hasn't been a good thing. What bugs me is that too many women deny their own sexuality and therefore treat sex as a masculine thing. This form of feminism simply feeds into the male dominated sexual landscape and continues to enable the coy bullshit of saying no when you want it, not because they're testing you, but because they think they're supposed to not want it.
I learned this the hard way about 10 years ago, and since then have been straightforward and honest to a fault when it comes to women. I don't puff myself up, because I don't feel the need to compete, as a result women don't shit test me, because they know it won't work.
I do believe the mother is worse in this situation. However I don't excuse Polanski. Don't get me wrong. I don't have a problem with a consensual hook up with a girl in the "ephebophilia" age range... on a moral level at least... but I think it's safe to say that consent goes out the window when your mother pushes you on a guy.
- Jan 18, 2018
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Speaking of Polanski, as much as I dislike that whole situation I do admit there is an excellent joke about him by Dan Mintz. It goes like this...
"You know Roman Polanski had a really amazing life... he survives the Holocaust, his wife was murdered, he raped a 14 year old girl and he won an Oscar... I'd be happy if just one of those things happen to me!"
Edit: Yeah... I've been lurking her for like 3ish weeks or something ridiculous... keep up the good convo, please!
"You know Roman Polanski had a really amazing life... he survives the Holocaust, his wife was murdered, he raped a 14 year old girl and he won an Oscar... I'd be happy if just one of those things happen to me!"
Edit: Yeah... I've been lurking her for like 3ish weeks or something ridiculous... keep up the good convo, please!
- May 13, 2017
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Here you go, it's a bit too long for my taste. But while writing I realized that corruption games also fall into this category, because the female player characters prudishness is in effect an obstacle for the player to overcome.
I'd agree to that. Even Coceter, which is more of a coming of age tale, as you mentioned, with a few corruption elements, will put obstacles in the way of Tabitha doing certain things without enough slut points.
Compare it to a regular (hack & slash) RPG though - Your player avatar starts out as some wimp whose wimpiness is an "obstacle" for the player to overcome - but we don't consider that a player antagonist because the avatar is fundamentally in it for the same reason the player is, become big and powerful, get the +5 sword of slaying, slay the dragon, bed the princess (or vice versa, depending on genre) - The difference being the discrepancy between the motivations of the player and protagonist.
With porn games, we see so often that the "retard in lechertown" never learns anything, doesn't have the goal of becoming some sort of sexual badass, and consequently never becomes that shrewd level 99 seductress with "+5 boobs of instant boners" we want her to be, and she just keeps being a retard that gets molested and raped at every corner. Or it's an unfinished game where that point is simply not reached yet, and possibly never will be, because the author doesn't know how to write sexual scenarios other than "dumb/innocent girl gets abused". Not every corruption game female MC is a player antagonist, and not every player antagonist is in a corruption game.
Chloe18 is an example for a corruption game with a school girl protagonist that, on the outset, decides to become a sexual badass, and the actual game revolves around her encounters "practicing" various sexy things and lowering her inhibitions and unlocking new partners to "play" with. That's why Chloe18 is great, we can identify with the otherwise bland main character, she's in it for the reason the player is playing the game - for the lewds.
Ayame from Fleeting Iris meanwhile does not show any hint of being corrupted in such a fashion, no matter how many people abuse and rape her. All she wants is to stay faithful to her boring husband. The player makes the character either back out, or go along with the various lewd schemes, and when doing so, the next day, she is full of regret for what "she" has done. Which is not an unrealistic sentiment on the face of it, but the player decision is never played as "Hormones" or "Blood flow to the nether regions draining the brain", it remains framed as "a retard who is being leched on" because the player wished it so, because there's no other lewds to be had.
Claire's Quest meanwhile is a mix of Corruption and straight up "Female Player Antagonist" - Claire can go prostitute herself (to horses, no less) and in the game, for the character, that's a reasonable course of action. But she can only do those things if she has enough "corruption points" amassed. But at the same time, the player can also straight up run Claire into scenarios where she is wildly abused and raped, just to gain more of those precious corruption points. Because apparently you need to train several weeks worth of sucking human dicks and being forced to take it up the bum before you can jack off a horse. Which makes me think I should find a way to date a veterinarianess.
Agreed with everything, except this. As was mentioned in that video I linked, as Deckard forces her to ask him to kiss her, to ask for more, she internalises this. It is her fault psychologically because she asked for it. Most such games use this manufactured consent style, from these molestation games to less obvious work like Big Brother.
I don't get it. Are you saying, whenever a woman wakes up the next morning regretting the lewd thing she did last night, there is "manufactured consent" involved? I would have assumed it is because sex is, fundamentally, not a rational action, and once the blood returns the to brain, rational people notice a discrepancy in what would have been the rational action, and the actual, sexy action that they took.
My point was that these female player characters didn't "do" anything, whatever they "did" was actually the doing of the player, while the sexual activity, in any case, is framed as something that is done to them, not by them.
No its not so grey. Only under the specific instances in this situation, where a man uses violence or narcotics to trap and coerce verbal consent.
In Big Brother its harassment instead of violence and narcotics. They aren't able to escape because he lives with them, so they give consent through having been worn down.
I don't really see that happen in porn games, though? I mean, where a guy bullies a girl into giving verbal consent? I don't think "verbal consent" mattered to Deckard in that situation either, that situation is read entirely wrong. His job is to kill Replicants - on sight. He (and the girl) learn the girl is a replicant. The only sane course of action for the girl in such a situation is to straight up fuck the guy, because guys have a really hard time killing girls they get attached to. Unless she has any hope of overpowering what's a trained killer of replicants. Deckard fucks her to non verbally communicate the ultimate "I'm not going to kill you" to her, because he has no other way to communicate it - you can lie with words, but not with actions, and this whole "You're a replicant and I have to kill you" thing isn't something you can walk away from.
The only girl in the Big Brother house who has any internal conflict about fucking Max, is the mother, and she regularly spanks the little retard. Even little sister Lisa has no problems removing an intrusive Max with an assertive "Get lost", and he runs like a burning weasel. Max isn't assertive enough for "harassment" and "wearing down" to be the central mechanic - instead, the girls simply enjoy the male attention - and what comes later. Big Brother is just grindy as hell, if anyone is worn down, it's the player.
Put plainly, bullshit. He doesn't have to be fucking her to not kill her. That's a complete logical fallacy and one you've been trained to accept by the prevalence of this type of situation in media. To prove that, lets look at the Bond scene he covers later where Bond, the man who killed her husband, breaks into the widows home corners her, and despite her clear fear and lack of reciprocity, he begins to kiss her and of course they have sex. There was no reason for her to fuck him beyond fear. Same for the replicant. The only motivation is to not get killed. That is rape.
I don't think that's entirely true, yet again, I think you're giving him the benefit of the doubt. Playing as max made me feel dirty. Like I was an animal. To be perfectly clear, from a psychological viewpoint Max is well on his way to being a rapist. The behaviour of peeping and harassment that he takes on is absolutely a marked step on the ladder to becoming a predator. Part of what I like so much about Dual Family is how the game actually addresses this with the son. In his dreams the Skeleton straight up tells him that if he continues on the path he's on he will hurt the people he loves. I think that with Max, Kira sees this, and unlike Ann, Kira is able to see that she has to keep him in check. She starts by doing it herself. Then when it comes to Lisa she offers to be the go between. Understand that getting to Lisa took manipulation and harassment on the part of Max to wear her down to the point where she'd even be willing. Then, when it comes to Lisa, the only thing that stops Max from raping his unwilling sister is Kira as the intermediate. She has to tell Max not to pressure her every time. However the only way to move forward is for Max to confront and pressure her while she's doing dishes. Also, in most of the blowjob scenes, he's cornering her in the bathroom.
I think Alice might be the one character other than Kira who is developed enough to consent. I think Alice always saw Max as a convenient dildo. She used sex with him to get what she needed. However again this keeps Max in check. Ann is the worst, Kira has to corrupt her own sister in order to save her from her son. Slowly but surely trick her into believing its ok to do so. All of this because she knew that if she didn't he'd eventually just take what he wanted.
Yes, Max does come off as too passive, but that's only because no one ever let max get far enough gone that he would act on his dark side. Again I feel like you're desensitized to the realities of his depravity because you're exposed to it all over the media. That's why women have such a hard time reporting sexual assault and harassment in our culture. People are programmed to give men the benefit of the doubt. This isn't an opinion I was raised to hold either. I grew up in a Mormon household. Patriarchy in the church isn't a fantasy, its actually a thing that we were taught to believe was the natural order of things. Like seriously, the Patriarch is mentioned by name, meaning that the man of the house is in charge. The wife should support the patriarch. The patriarch is ordained by God with the priesthood. No, these are things I've learned as I've matured and observed the world on my own.
- Jan 18, 2018
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(I post that ironically, of course it is rape and is by no means a good thing... carry on)
