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2DNiem

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May 8, 2023
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Yes, the fact that it's being passed off as original work and being sold is the larger issue here. Either way, I haven't bothered replying to any of those posts, because there is no point.

ANYONE who has spent YEARS learning a skill or a craft, has spent HOURS creating and producing something, instinctually knows the feeling of frustration that comes when someone takes your work and puts their own name on it.

The people who are saying they don't care if it's traced don't have that feeling, they CAN'T have that feeling. Because the only thing they have spent years on is some random game on steam, the only thing they spend hours on is masturbating, and the only thing they have ever produced is the wriggling mass of sperms blasted onto a tissue, to be discarded with ease later on.
It's simply beyond their understanding.

I've found more traced art but won't bother posting it here, as clearly no one cares. I've reached out to the original artists, pointed them to the Patreon page, and let them sort it out on their own.

Peace.
I think 'sold' here is the key word, I'm not selling. But I don't think you're completely wrong as well, it's just that I'm not claiming anything over the artworks and I'm not asking for credit over them. I didn't produce some of the shapes and the poses, but I drew every single image apart from the VR Headset ones, that I've added as placeholders before I can actually do something about them.
I imagine you're on other forums complaining about HTML games that just rip art off directly from artists, or even about games that use real porn images without the actresses/actors consent as well? Specially if they sell their games, which I don't do. I post a free personal project online and ask for support if people want to see more of it. And I do, in fact, believe that it's a similar process to writing fanficion or hentai using established characters from other artists as well, or isn't taking another persons character design, development, stories and background and using it to make money a bad thing too?
 
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Bulbanych

Member
Oct 13, 2020
355
939
I'm grateful for you sharing your thoughts! I agree on this btw, you're completely right. I didn't forget to credit anyone on purpose tho, that's because I didn't add credits at all at this point. No marketing, no team, no time, also not selling, just me and whatever I manage to do in my free time from college, for free, for everyone who wants to get it and give it a go.
I'll keep that in mind and try to be more transparent in the future. The tracing thing isn't a secret btw, I've talked about it in the discord server, just didn't think about writing anything for it in the game itself because, again, I'm not selling.
I don't know, I think this is still kind of "lying by omission", in a sense. Like, I'm happy that people in the discord server knew about this, but neither here, nor on the itch.io (nor the patreon page, most likely, I haven't checked it thoroughly) is there written "btw the dev is still learning, so the art is traced over", which is a big part of why a good chunk of people are understandably pissed off about the traced art.
Also the "I'm not selling" argument doesn't really work, because, while I understand that you probably mean to use Patreon as a "tip jar" of sorts, it lists one of the benefits as "Early access to builds and drawings", so, no, you're absolutely selling, even if the content is later made available for non-paying viewers. Like, it's literally the reason why Nintendo successfully took the devs of the Citra 3ds Emulator to court, because "paid early access" counts as "selling".
Also, I haven't checked thoroughly, but "access to a discord server" is listed as one of the benefits of joining your Patreon, so unless there's some free link to your discord server somewhere, then you essentially have to pay to get into the one place where it's more or less widely known that art in your game is traced. Even if there is a free link to it somewhere, it's still dumb that you have to go to the discord server specifically to find out about the art tracing, instead of having it listed in an easy-to-see place (yes, there are still people that don't want to clog their discord with random servers to see important information about porn games).
 

2DNiem

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May 8, 2023
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Imagine tracing content and then trying to sell it, absolutely fucking shameless, lol.
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I've been jacking it to Futa porn for years, did you really think you could slip this by me?
The doggystyle witch image and bunny one is also stolen, but I have too much shit in my folder and I can't find it rn, but considering the "art style" changes with every image, I'd say all of them are traced
No, I didn't think I could slip it by you, with all your years of futa porn, as I also talk about it openly on the game's discord. But I'm not "trying to sell it". If you paid money for Femboy Survival, you were scammed for it. The game is free and we're having this discussion in a website full of pirated copies of actual paid games.
 

2DNiem

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May 8, 2023
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I don't know, I think this is still kind of "lying by omission", in a sense. Like, I'm happy that people in the discord server knew about this, but neither here, nor on the itch.io (nor the patreon page, most likely, I haven't checked it thoroughly) is there written "btw the dev is still learning, so the art is traced over", which is a big part of why a good chunk of people are understandably pissed off about the traced art.
Also the "I'm not selling" argument doesn't really work, because, while I understand that you probably mean to use Patreon as a "tip jar" of sorts, it lists one of the benefits as "Early access to builds and drawings", so, no, you're absolutely selling, even if the content is later made available for non-paying viewers. Like, it's literally the reason why Nintendo successfully took the devs of the Citra 3ds Emulator to court, because "paid early access" counts as "selling".
Also, I haven't checked thoroughly, but "access to a discord server" is listed as one of the benefits of joining your Patreon, so unless there's some free link to your discord server somewhere, then you essentially have to pay to get into the one place where it's more or less widely known that art in your game is traced. Even if there is a free link to it somewhere, it's still dumb that you have to go to the discord server specifically to find out about the art tracing, instead of having it listed in an easy-to-see place (yes, there are still people that don't want to clog their discord with random servers to see important information about porn games).
I respect that, and I agree to some extent. I don't post copies of artwork on the Patreon page though, everything is drawn by hand from start to finish, even if the the shapes aren't drawn from scratch every time, specially while I was learning to draw. If it still counts as selling then I'll surely take everything down, as I haven't even implemented most of the Patreon advantages yet, mostly it's just voting power, but I get your point.
You don't have to go to discord to find information about it too, all of the people who noticed and asked me in private were told the truth, I just wanted to point that out because I wasn't hiding it or anything.
I value your view on this though, and I agree that I need to do something about it.
 
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lilgrd12

Newbie
Sep 24, 2023
79
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Is there an easy mode of this game ? not interested in the hassle of the fights/leveling up. All I want is to see the hot action. Otherwise it looks good keep doing your thing developer.
 

Abelzal

New Member
Jun 2, 2017
14
16
Frankly, I think that this moral panic over the dude using other people's images as reference (and that's what tracing ultimately is) is rather pointless. You do you, my guy.

Anyway, I've got an issue: some scenes just won't play. Ever. There's a few scenes that I can't unlock after a few playthoughts. Maybe unlock the gallery after beating the game? Or, maybe, introduce a roguelite element by giving you some currency after beating the game that you can use to unlock new stuff. And a difficulty hike...

Nvm, that would be a different game entirely. Would be kinda cool, though.
 
May 25, 2017
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Response to the drawing tracing discussion, don't be afraid to tell me your thoughts if you think differently! I'm always open to discussing and I won't be mad at arguments!

1. My schedule is shitty, to say the least.
Every day, I spend something close to 6 hours at college and the rest of the time studying for college exams and working on the game. My college is the second-hardest in my country, and I have to prioritize it to some degree. Before the game made enough Money for me to quit my previous part-time job, I was working and studying for 12 hours every day, all while working on the game at the same time. Best way to describe my current situation is that I have very little time to have fun and talk to friends, and I work/study for about 14 hours non-stop. Lack of time was the first reason.


2. Femboy Survival is not a product.
I love games, I've played ero games for a while now, and I've Always wanted to make my own. Femboy Survival is my first try at something I had in mind for the future, not something I thought would be liked by so many people, so I thought I was doing something for myself and maybe a small handful of people who liked Femboys as well. If you're a supporter on Patreon, that means you support the work that I put on the internet for free, I'm not selling you anything other people created. When you play parody games that use characters from manga/anime, the creator is also using other people's creative work to do something of their own, I don't think that is wrong as well because it doesn't take something away from the creator himself.

I'll say it again, to make it clear. You're NOT purchasing Femboy Suvival, it's free software available to everyone and was started as a fun side project for me. If you think what I'm doing harms other people in any way, you don't need to pay me any money in order to play what I build.

The second reason is that I don't charge for other people's artwork.


3. I am still learning.
I could never do some of the things I wanted to in reasonable time if I hadn't used references to nail anatomy at first, I've started learning to draw at the beginning of the year. Having that in mind, I tried picking references from (mostly AI) packs in sites like Luscious.com, to nail the shapes and the positioning of the characters, but you can see I did less and less of that as time went on. Sometimes I go back to it when I'm on a very tight schedule and I can't spare time to sketch before I need to publish something. After more and more people started to support me, I could spare some Money and time to buy and take online courses to learn anatomy and animation. Once I move on to a proper commercial project, I won't do what I did her. Meaning I had to choose between building a noncommercial project I wanted to build or giving up for a year or so before I could learn the basics, I chose the former because of the reason I'll write below, but the third reason is that I wanted to learn anatomy WHILE building my first project, instead of doing both things separately.

Given the situation, I've decided to start the project like that, mostly to practice and gain experience, and I understand if you think there's something wrong with it. Here's what I think in ethical terms:

What I do is like writing fan fiction, using established characters as a basis. Imagine every parody game/series/story uses character design, writing, reputation/fame and other things from franchises with a large degree of success. If I posted my drawings online, they wouldn't amount to anything by themselves. What gives Femboy Survival it's 'kick' is that the artwork mixes with the context, gameplay and the fetish themes, besides it being about 1/4 of my workload on average. Finally, the drawings sometimes follow the shape of other drawings, but that's it, the majority of the time is spent painting and adding detail, all of which I use no references for. Absolutely everything in Femboy Survival comes exclusively from my head, except the shapes/anatomy used in some of the sex scenes. But the main thing is that nobody is paying for it, that's basically it.

Also, if I traced something from any of you and you want it taken down, I don't mind! As I said, it's a side project while I'm finishing college and I don't want to sell it at any point. I don't think what I do is wrong but I'd remove the pictures to make sure I don't get in fights with artists that I admire and have always enjoyed!
I honestly don't mind the tracing that much since you're not making money off of the game, but at least put original author credits in the gallery or something.

Like have a little text in the corner of each gallery entry "Based off of (author)'s art"
 

2DNiem

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Game Developer
May 8, 2023
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Frankly, I think that this moral panic over the dude using other people's images as reference (and that's what tracing ultimately is) is rather pointless. You do you, my guy.

Anyway, I've got an issue: some scenes just won't play. Ever. There's a few scenes that I can't unlock after a few playthoughts. Maybe unlock the gallery after beating the game? Or, maybe, introduce a roguelite element by giving you some currency after beating the game that you can use to unlock new stuff. And a difficulty hike...

Nvm, that would be a different game entirely. Would be kinda cool, though.
I also don't think it's that big of an issue, specially since I'm not selling or claiming ownership of anything, which is what copyright is about. But I'd definitely take something out if it bothers the artist that I've referenced, just out of courtesy. If I wanted to make money I wouldn't be an indie dev, that's for sure.
 

2DNiem

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May 8, 2023
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I honestly don't mind the tracing that much since you're not making money off of the game, but at least put original author credits in the gallery or something.

Like have a little text in the corner of each gallery entry "Based off of (author)'s art"
I'll do that! That's the part that I think they really got right and that I didn't think of that much. I'm delaying Demo 13 a bit exactly for that reason. As I said, I'm very open to discussion and to talk about it in the best way I can. I'm not mad at the insults or anything, even if people didn't try talking to me first before posting them.
 

SkyLova

New Member
Feb 13, 2018
1
2
Holy shit, came here for news about updates, got some drama instead.

This is not a PRODUCT. Retracing and redrawing things to include in a free project is fine, just get over it.

I thinks Dev should credit the artist in credits and gallery. But i don't think that he should ask them for permission. Every art posted on the internet CAN be used as inspiration OR as a transformative work. Retracing and redrawing IS transformative.
Its always people on the pirating websites that try to claim the moral high ground i swear.
 

2DNiem

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May 8, 2023
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Holy shit, came here for news about updates, got some drama instead.

This is not a PRODUCT. Retracing and redrawing things to include in a free project is fine, just get over it.

I thinks Dev should credit the artist in credits and gallery. But i don't think that he should ask them for permission. Every art posted on the internet CAN be used as inspiration OR as a transformative work. Retracing and redrawing IS transformative.
Its always people on the pirating websites that try to claim the moral high ground i swear.
"What do you mean this free game on my piracy website is only using 75% original drawings along with the majority of original stuff (code/UI/game design) that makes it up? HE MUST BE DESTROYED."

Jokes aside, I get the point of the complainers, maybe I'm even wrong in the way I conceived a free project would mean in terms of that? From all of the things going around, including AI, I'd think a free game would be the least of everyone's concern. But that's the internet, I guess. Arguments can be a bit messy and people get angry very quickly, when most of the time it's just a matter of slightly different views on things. I did change my mind in some stuff that I wasn't giving much thought, such as the crediting, which I simply didn't think much about because if I was in the other end I wouldn't mind. I'm making it a priority for now.
I hope some of them can change their mind a bitonce they understand me too :)
 
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May 25, 2017
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"What do you mean this free game on my piracy website is only using 75% original drawings along with the majority of original stuff (code/UI/game design) that makes it up? HE MUST BE DESTROYED."

Jokes aside, I get the point of the complainers, maybe I'm even wrong in the way I conceived a free project would mean in terms of that? From all of the things going around, including AI, I'd think a free game would be the least of everyone's concern. But that's the internet, I guess. Arguments can be a bit messy and people get angry very quickly, when most of the time it's just a matter of slightly different views on things. I did change my mind in some stuff that I wasn't giving much thought, such as the crediting, which I simply didn't think much about because if I was in the other end I wouldn't mind. I'm making it a priority for now.
I hope some of them can change their mind a bitonce they understand me too :)
It was probably best to be transparent about it from the start, rather than waiting for someone to discover it. No one actually cares that the art is traced, it's mainly that people felt mislead in the first place.
 

2DNiem

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May 8, 2023
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It was probably best to be transparent about it from the start, rather than waiting for someone to discover it. No one actually cares that the art is traced, it's mainly that people felt mislead in the first place.
Agree with that as well. I was somewhat comfortable with this because I've openly discussed it quite a few times in private, as I said. But you're absolutely right.
 
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reperspliter

New Member
Jul 22, 2017
3
2
need more, its just too good.
if your looking for suggestions id like to have a house/cabin instead of just being plopped onto the map with no timer for newgame/completed runs
and in the hosue we could have wardrobes and chests with all the unlocked clothes, weapons and toys and it would be great if we could invite the npc's over to watch scenes like some sort of ingame gallery
 
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-Nynx-

Member
May 22, 2018
408
719
Please add more feet content (Feet smelling - Footjob - Poses showing feet) :HideThePain:
yeeees YEEEES YEEEEEEEES COOOOMING :KEK:

fr though, feet smothering gang up, feet electrodes or vibes \ toys, protag feet worship bondaged, self footjob from doppelganger, cooming on self feet from hypno.

more hypno images using ai diffusion would be great for all fetishes, more voice lines? (worship feet, smell feet, worship toes,

headset could act like chastity with lock and key given by a mob
 
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